Watched the Louisville game on Replay ...

[Jakhny]

Look, almost any CV performance would have been better than PJ but my second look at CV's performance revealed that CV was far from good in that game. The long pass to KJ(?) was seriously underthrown. Really, how many good passes did CV throw? Did I see potential? Yes. But CV better get much better against Wake.

And the defense? All I can say is "hey, I'd rather be lucky than good" because essentially Pitt got lucky in the second half because the defense was not good

 

[Tiger Paul Lives]

Not saying there isn't room to improve but after a dismal start, something like 0-5 passing, I think Christian settled in and they did this without a substantial running game.

If I remember correctly, the pass to Kenny Johnson you are referring to was meant to be a back shoulder pass. If it was, then it is meant to be under thrown.

If not playing very good and being lucky results in 0 second half point for the opposition, I will take that every week.

 

[cruzer]

Look, almost any CV performance would have been better than PJ but my second look at CV's performance revealed that CV was far from good in that game. The long pass to KJ(?) was seriously underthrown. Really, how many good passes did CV throw? Did I see potential? Yes. But CV better get much better against Wake.

And the defense? All I can say is "hey, I'd rather be lucky than good" because essentially Pitt got lucky in the second half because the defense was not good

I largely agree with you. CV was a step up from PJ but that's really not saying anything. CV was not sharp. Most distressing is that he missed some really easy throws to open receivers. No one should have been expecting a Aaron Rogers-like performance, but you can't miss the easy throws. Hopefully, with a full game under his belt CV will settle down.

Cruzer

 

[FIVE4PITT]

I think being his first start and a driving rain thoughtout the game had something to do with it. He'll get better with more first team reps in practice and game experience. Plus, the Louisvile defense was pretty stout. Kid has potential.

 

[mlvnsmly]

PG posted a hit piece today on CV highlighting his PFF numbers are basicly the same as PJ. They just can't help themselves.

 

[deepelemblues]

Lol wrong

Saw multiple high level throws over the middle

Saw two TDs dropped in the receiver's hands in stride 30+ yards downfield

Saw the rush being felt and accurate throws on the move that were caught

If you didn't see em you're blind

Big KJ completion was underthrown but it was very catchable and it worked out

Is there room for improvement? Sure, lots of room for it. Many of the incompletions were barely too off target to be caught. They werent 5 yards wide or 5 yards overthrown or both like with PJ. The floor and ceiling are much higher than PJ and high enough for CV to be a successful P5 QB with proper development

 

[PittMan2003]

He had a nice pass to cBo that was dropped and would have been a first down on third. He had two passes to the receivers where they weren’t looking for the ball. Not sure who’s fault they were.

He wasn’t great, but I think he had a few pass that could have been caught and brought his percentage up. Hopefully, with some reps it will improve.

 

[DruidTM]

Defense shut out LVille in second half and the points differential was 24-0

Lucky my ass

 

[Jakhny]

Sure there were some passes that should have been caught but there were a lot of less than average passes in those 14 incompletions. I'm not going to deceive myself into believing that I saw anything more than a QB who was way better than PJ and who has potential. But potential will not result in a 6 and 6 season or better unless that potential is realized. I hope it will be because we can't count on the defense getting lucky like they did against the Vill.

 

[Jakhny]

Lol wrong

Saw multiple high level throws over the middle

Saw two TDs dropped in the receiver's hands in stride 30+ yards downfield

Saw the rush being felt and accurate throws on the move that were caught

If you didn't see em you're blind

Big KJ completion was underthrown but it was very catchable and it worked out

Is there room for improvement? Sure, lots of room for it. Many of the incompletions were barely too off target to be caught. They werent 5 yards wide or 5 yards overthrown or both like with PJ. The floor and ceiling are much higher than PJ and high enough for CV to be a successful P5 QB with proper development

Saw multiple high level throws over the middle - I didn't unless you define "multiple" as 3 or less.

Saw two TDs dropped in the receiver's hands in stride 30+ yards downfield - I must have missed them. Did you other guys miss them too?

Saw the rush being felt and accurate throws on the move that were caught - I did see some of that and that was good which makes CV better than PJ - it doesn't make CV good (you, know there is a standard called "fair" which is less than "good".

If you didn't see em you're blind - OK, Mr. Optomitrist, you got me there with your amazing analysis.

Big KJ completion was underthrown but it was very catchable and it worked out - It did work out but the fact that it did does not make the pass "good". Of course, if that was the plan, then it was more than "good" but I don't see any evidence to support anything other than it just worked out.

Is there room for improvement? Sure, lots of room for it. Many of the incompletions were barely too off target to be caught. They werent 5 yards wide or 5 yards overthrown or both like with PJ. The floor and ceiling are much higher than PJ and high enough for CV to be a successful P5 QB with proper development - Agreed.

 

[Saboteur II]

Look, almost any CV performance would have been better than PJ but my second look at CV's performance revealed that CV was far from good in that game. The long pass to KJ(?) was seriously underthrown. Really, how many good passes did CV throw? Did I see potential? Yes. But CV better get much better against Wake.

And the defense? All I can say is "hey, I'd rather be lucky than good" because essentially Pitt got lucky in the second half because the defense was not good

I call Bull. Johnson didn’t beat anyone on his sideline route: he was covered like a blanket. CV threw the ball where only his guy could catch it. It was a smart throw not an arm strength exhibition.
The TD toss to 0 was a perfectly thrown ball with CV getting hit as he released.
PJ could not have made either throw.
The pass to Bart as he got swiped by a Dlineman but kept his eyes upfield is another play PJ can’t make.
CV didn’t play like Pickett, but for a guy who played 1 game in the previous 3 years and started 0-5 and ended up with his stats it was damn good and better than I expected.
Here’s a stat for you. CV had 0 turnovers on a very wet field and covered a terrible snap without trying to be a hero.
He played damn well.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Saw multiple high level throws over the middle - I didn't unless you define "multiple" as 3 or less.

Saw two TDs dropped in the receiver's hands in stride 30+ yards downfield - I must have missed them. Did you other guys miss them too?

Saw the rush being felt and accurate throws on the move that were caught - I did see some of that and that was good which makes CV better than PJ - it doesn't make CV good (you, know there is a standard called "fair" which is less than "good".

If you didn't see em you're blind - OK, Mr. Optomitrist, you got me there with your amazing analysis.

Big KJ completion was underthrown but it was very catchable and it worked out - It did work out but the fact that it did does not make the pass "good". Of course, if that was the plan, then it was more than "good" but I don't see any evidence to support anything other than it just worked out.

Is there room for improvement? Sure, lots of room for it. Many of the incompletions were barely too off target to be caught. They werent 5 yards wide or 5 yards overthrown or both like with PJ. The floor and ceiling are much higher than PJ and high enough for CV to be a successful P5 QB with proper development - Agreed.

If you would have seen his analysis of Jurkovec after the Wofford game, you would know not to take that dude seriously. He thought Phil was on his way to being a top 10 pick.

 

[Jakhny]

I call Bull. Johnson didn’t beat anyone on his sideline route: he was covered like a blanket. CV threw the ball where only his guy could catch it. It was a smart throw not an arm strength exhibition.
The TD toss to 0 was a perfectly thrown ball with CV getting hit as he released.
PJ could not have made either throw.
The pass to Bart as he got swiped by a Dlineman but kept his eyes upfield is another play PJ can’t make.
CV didn’t play like Pickett, but for a guy who played 1 game in the previous 3 years and started 0-5 and ended up with his stats it was damn good and better than I expected.
Here’s a stat for you. CV had 0 turnovers on a very wet field and covered a terrible snap without trying to be a hero.
He played damn well.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

CV looked like a slightly below average college QB who has the potential to develop into an average to good college QB with some gained confidence and experience. At this point, I'll take it. Would it surprise me if he throws three picks this week and looks lost? Absolutely not. Also wouldn't surprise me if he continues to improve and throws for 280 in a win. I'm not seeing much star potential or anything, but I'm hoping he can be good.

As for the pass to Kenny Johnson... he absolutely had the defender beat, and the ball should have been thrown over the shoulder. He was way more open than Means was on that first TD. Should have been an easy touchdown. Tough to say if the back shoulder pass was a misread or a misthrow (I tend to lean toward the latter). All in all, he played fine. Not exceptional and not awful. One game was never going to solidify any conclusions. I'm excited for this week.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

Think back on Pickett for a second when he was just starting to play QB. He was average at best and people were calling for his benching. It took Pickett a few years to mature and for the light to go on. CV is doing fine, especially for his first full game under fire at Pitt. Pitt fans crack me up.

 

[Jakhny]

He played "damn well" for a first time starter. That doesn't mean he played "objectively" good (see Zen and Art of Maintenance).

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Think back on Pickett for a second when he was just starting to play QB. He was average at best and people were calling for his benching. It took Pickett a few years to mature and for the light to go on. CV is doing fine, especially for his first full game under fire at Pitt. Pitt fans crack me up.

The thing about Pickett was you could see something just a little bit different even early on. I'm talking even at his first Spring Game. His balls had more zip than the other guys. He moved a little quicker.

I agree there were some frustrating early years, but he also made some really nice plays in those times. He just needed to understand his reads better and play with more consistency. Having an offense that attacked and kept defenses on their heels didn't hurt. It allowed him to stay in rhythm and not stagnate.

 

[deepelemblues]

Saw multiple high level throws over the middle - I didn't unless you define "multiple" as 3 or less.

Saw two TDs dropped in the receiver's hands in stride 30+ yards downfield - I must have missed them. Did you other guys miss them too?

Saw the rush being felt and accurate throws on the move that were caught - I did see some of that and that was good which makes CV better than PJ - it doesn't make CV good (you, know there is a standard called "fair" which is less than "good".

If you didn't see em you're blind - OK, Mr. Optomitrist, you got me there with your amazing analysis.

Big KJ completion was underthrown but it was very catchable and it worked out - It did work out but the fact that it did does not make the pass "good". Of course, if that was the plan, then it was more than "good" but I don't see any evidence to support anything other than it just worked out.

Is there room for improvement? Sure, lots of room for it. Many of the incompletions were barely too off target to be caught. They werent 5 yards wide or 5 yards overthrown or both like with PJ. The floor and ceiling are much higher than PJ and high enough for CV to be a successful P5 QB with proper development - Agreed.

The definition of multiple is literally more than one. I counted 4

When I said dropped in receiver's hands I didn't mean they were dropped incompletions. They were dropped into the receiver's hands and were caught

What a weird and insecure hill to die on

 

[deepelemblues]

If you would have seen his analysis of Jurkovec after the Wofford game, you would know not to take that dude seriously. He thought Phil was on his way to being a top 10 pick.

Never said that lol, you're mad and insecure about your Pickett jihad getting dabbed on

The free board is truly a hole, no wonder almost no one on the pay board ever comes here

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

Never said that lol, you're mad and insecure about your Pickett jihad getting dabbed on

The free board is truly a hole, no wonder almost no one on the pay board ever comes here

Okay, elitist - pinkies up! You gonna make me quote your Jurkovec analysis from the Wofford game? Absolute comedy GOLD!

"I know no one else is getting it right now, but here's what I'm seeing...."

😂

 

[deepelemblues]

Okay, elitist - pinkies up! You gonna make me quote your Jurkovec analysis from the Wofford game? Absolute comedy GOLD!

I said I thought he would play very well if he built on his performance. He did not

Top 10 pick I never said lol. Here I'll quote the whole thing

OK so we've all been seeing some criticism of his performance. I sat down and watched the entire game again. My thoughts

Overall: Phil played very well

1) on the first drive he took a bad sack and had a bad low throw to the flat that was caught and immediate tackle because the receiver was in a bad position to turn upfield because the catch had to be made so low
2) he had 1 or 2 more inaccurate throws over the rest of the game. One was a low throw to Bart in the middle that was caught for a first down. The overthrow to Means on the long shot and the overthrow on the fade to Mumpfield werent good, but those are very correctable considering what Im going to say in my next point
3) his intermediate throws, to Renda, Bart, Johnson, Means, and Mumpfield, mostly down the seam they were good throws, period. At the time I criticized his throw to Means on the second drive, but seeing it from the video game angle (from above and behind) he put it right on the money. He was quite good with his accuracy for ~90% of his throws
4) his throws to flemister in the flat were a little inaccurate, floated a little, but they were the right decision, were extremely catchable, and were caught, for big gains
5) the TD to Karter Johnson was a good job escaping the pressure and a bad decision to throw it up for grabs. He got away with it for a TD, but the right decision there is throw it away. Live to fight on the next play
6) he looks awkward moving around, but as @JimHammett said in the game thread, that's deceptive. He avoided pressure and made plays with his arm on the move
7) once he gets going, he has some wheels. The read option TD run, he showed a decent turn of speed. He's not going to have a big burst from the get go, but once he gets some momentum, he's decently fast
8) after the first drive he played near perfectly. He shook the rust off and the only thing to really criticize after that drive I'd say he made was the TD to Karter. And that ended up in 7 so how bad could it really have been?
9) he spread the ball around big time, I saw his eyes moving around the field well. I've seen some people saying he wasn't going through his reads. That is not what I saw at all
10) re: criticism of his footwork. It wasn't perfect, but some of the criticisms I've seen are way exaggerated. This ties back in to his accuracy, he consistently showed good accuracy in intermediate throws and that just doesn't happen with awful footwork
11) he deserves the captaincy. He likes his teammates, they like him, he showed mastery over the parts of the playbook they had open, he did a good job calling protections and reading the defense in general presnap. It was night and day compared to the level of comfort and confidence shown by last year's QB

Rewatching the game I just didn't see this lumbering, weak-armed, stumbling bad footwork, inaccurate, not playing well between his ears QB. I think he had some rust that he shook off after the first drive, and produced at a high level with a very vanilla game plan. I think he is going to do very well for Pitt this year if he builds on this performance like should happen

If you watch the Wofford game what I said was accurate to his performance in that game. I thought he could improve his performance physically and it turned out he couldn't

Keep clowning

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

I said I thought he would play very well if he built on his performance. He did not

Top 10 pick I never said lol. Here I'll quote the whole thing

If you watch the Wofford game what I said was accurate to his performance in that game. I thought he could improve his performance physically and it turned out he couldn't

Keep clowning

I mean, that's a terrible assessment. Yet me saying Pickett - who has the 32nd QBR out of 33 qualified quarterbacks - hasn't been good is somehow a bad take? Hmmm, talk about making up your own facts.

 

[Jeffburgh]

Not saying there isn't room to improve but after a dismal start, something like 0-5 passing, I think Christian settled in and they did this without a substantial running game.

If I remember correctly, the pass to Kenny Johnson you are referring to was meant to be a back shoulder pass. If it was, then it is meant to be under thrown.

If not playing very good and being lucky results in 0 second half point for the opposition, I will take that every week.

Yeah, he put a little too much air on it, but clearly he was purposefully throwing "back shoulder" on that KJ pass.

He was a mixed bag for sure, but as others noted that night he has a live arm, and for him to bounce back from that dreadful start says a lot about him.

Again - dude had not taken any first team snaps until the two weeks prior to the game.

He still has some ups and downs in front of him.

 

[HailtoPitt]

At some point we need to realize that if a first time starter does better than the 6th player whose was in his 4th or 5th year of starting, then the coaches should have gone with that younger player sooner.

Look at how quickl Saban replaced Hurts with Tua. Yet we kept trying with Phil. Reducilous.

 

[Pittnerski]

Eluded the pass rush like a pro. Dropped 2 absolute dimes to Bub and KM on the TDs

Pff is garbage

 

[HailToPitt1985]

The thing about Pickett was you could see something just a little bit different even early on. I'm talking even at his first Spring Game. His balls had more zip than the other guys. He moved a little quicker.

I agree there were some frustrating early years, but he also made some really nice plays in those times. He just needed to understand his reads better and play with more consistency. Having an offense that attacked and kept defenses on their heels didn't hurt. It allowed him to stay in rhythm and not stagnate.

I think the same thing can be said about Vielleux. I see a pretty good arm and a very quick release. With some experience, he can improve on accuracy and game awareness. I just see a kid who has a very fluid throwing motion with a tight spiral and an easy ball to catch. He has an attitude and some guts, too. Time will tell.

 

[Lothrop605]

Even if the numbers are similar, I don’t see how anyone could walk away saying Jurkovec is better, particularly after the first quarter. CV had way more velocity, was more accurate, and just threw a better ball.

 

[Jakhny]

The definition of multiple is literally more than one. I counted 4

When I said dropped in receiver's hands I didn't mean they were dropped incompletions. They were dropped into the receiver's hands and were caught

What a weird and insecure hill to die on

Just misread what you clearly wrote.

 

[Jakhny]

Just misread what you clearly wrote but, of course, as you know, that was only one of my disagreements with what you wrote. What's weird and insecure is you picking on that one critique as if it was the entire content of my criticism. Way to go, beat me up with the old pick the lowest hanging fruit and forget about the rest but close out with the most juvenile ad hominem you got.

 

[pbrad]

He played better than the Louisville QB. That guy is bad. PITT probably loses that game with PJ at QB.

 

[Chairman Moe]

Look, almost any CV performance would have been better than PJ but my second look at CV's performance revealed that CV was far from good in that game. The long pass to KJ(?) was seriously underthrown. Really, how many good passes did CV throw? Did I see potential? Yes. But CV better get much better against Wake.

And the defense? All I can say is "hey, I'd rather be lucky than good" because essentially Pitt got lucky in the second half because the defense was not good

First off, it wasn't Pitt vs Roast Beef A&M last week; they played a 6-0 Louisville team fresh off a convincing win over Notre Dame

Second, as other posters alluded to the weather conditions were compromising at best

Third, while the defense was allowing points, yardage, and TOP, they also were very opportunistic. Fumble recovery off a strip sack; 2 interceptions; and 4 stops of the Cards on 4th down

Given what I had seen the previous four weeks last Saturday's game looked like a masterpiece

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

UL had 430 yards and we didn’t crack 300. They had 28 first downs to Pitt’s 13. They were moving the ball, especially on the ground. Their rushing numbers look bad because Plummer was sacked 4 times (kudos to our D), but the run D struggled in the first half. Turnovers were the difference. Plummer took that bad strip sack, and threw two picks that were within FG range. Brohm also had the questionable 4th & 1 call at his 35, which Pitt couldn’t move the ball, but still gave them a FG.

 

[h2p_5150]

That was a very promising game from CV. You can see something to build off of.

I agree on the defense though. They benefitted from some horrid QB play by Louisville.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The TD toss to 0 was a perfectly thrown ball with CV getting hit as he released.

That pass was the best ball a Pitt quarterback has thrown all season.

And whichever pass is the second best wasn't even close.

 

[Chairman Moe]

All three of CV's TD passes have looked good; but yes, the one to Bub was his best. No doubt

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

All three of CV's TD passes have looked good; but yes, the one to Bub was his best. No doubt

That was the kind of pass that Pitt could have scored at least three or four more touchdowns in the Woeful game had Bookovec been able to make that throw.

Instead, when he got the chance, and he had more than a couple, he well underthrew every one of them.

 

[ebonylover40]

He had a nice pass to cBo that was dropped and would have been a first down on third. He had two passes to the receivers where they weren’t looking for the ball. Not sure who’s fault they were.

He wasn’t great, but I think he had a few pass that could have been caught and brought his percentage up. Hopefully, with some reps it will improve.

They were hot reads, WRs didnt read it. Means missed the first one, but did it correctly the second time.

 

[HailToPitt1985]

UL had 430 yards and we didn’t crack 300. They had 28 first downs to Pitt’s 13. They were moving the ball, especially on the ground. Their rushing numbers look bad because Plummer was sacked 4 times (kudos to our D), but the run D struggled in the first half. Turnovers were the difference. Plummer took that bad strip sack, and threw two picks that were within FG range. Brohm also had the questionable 4th & 1 call at his 35, which Pitt couldn’t move the ball, but still gave them a FG.

And what L'ville did against Pitt is what bad teams do when they lose. The yards, first downs, etc. don't mean much when you have turnovers and a bonehead for a coach and a poor QB.

 

[TD_6082]

At some point we need to realize that if a first time starter does better than the 6th player whose was in his 4th or 5th year of starting, then the coaches should have gone with that younger player sooner.

Look at how quickl Saban replaced Hurts with Tua. Yet we kept trying with Phil. Reducilous.

If CV were anything remotely close to Tua, Phil would have also been benched a long time ago.

I saw CV replace Phil against UNC. He's no Tua. Our coaches would have to be fools to throw CV out there sooner, on the road behind a hot mess of an offensive line.

 

[thebadby2]

If CV were anything remotely close to Tua, Phil would have also been benched a long time ago.

I saw CV replace Phil against UNC. He's no Tua. Our coaches would have to be fools to throw CV out there sooner, on the road behind a hot mess of an offensive line.

I don’t think anyone is suggesting that CV is comparable to Tua in any way. Nor is anyone suggesting that Jurk is comparable to Hurts in any way. Other than that they are all humans playing QB. .

What is being suggested is that a coach like Saban, i.e., an elite coach, would never have sat back and watched 4 full games of the Jurk show before pulling the cord. If it had been Saban, I don’t think he’d have waited 4 full possessions to make the change. Of course, a coach like Saban never would have been in that position to begin with, but this is a hypothetical debate.

CV may not have been ready for this, he still may not be ready for it, but what was very clear is that Jurk didn’t have it, or anything close to it.

I know it’s a delicate equation to bench your starter especially when you bring him in specifically to be your starter. But it’s hard to imagine that Duzz and the coaches didn’t know what they had in Jurk way before Game 1. It only took 1 quarter of the Woffle game for us armchair coaches to see the guy, for whatever reason, injury maybe, head issues maybe, both maybe, can’t throw a competent football. So it’s at least a debate that he should have been hooked much earlier.