What isn't a fact? They only debatable one is evolving as a coach, and numerous people said he is handcuffing his assistants.
Welcome to reality!
- Thread starter CMUandPitt
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People lie in this process - in particular agents who want to get a longer deal and more money for their client. Are trying to act dumb?
I can't help you if you can't discern fact from opinion....which you appear unable to do
Well, Richie was certainly part of the public spectacle. You have that right anyway.
You can characterize the events however you like, but it is impossible to spin it in any other way that is not embarrassing to Barnes and Pitt.
We can all hope that Mr. Barnes is quietly conducting a professional search outside the press and the names that keep appearing in columns around the area and in trade websites are incorrect. But, the names which are being mentioned are not at the level our fans were talking about in the previous few weeks. That doesn't mean one of them might not become a great coach here. After all, Howland had been rejected by mid-majors before we hired him and the circumstances of Dixon's hire are pretty similar to the Miller fiasco. Mr. Barnes could still hit a home run.
This may be the biggest hire Barnes makes and if Tuesday's events define his career here, it may not be a long career. That would be bad for us all.
Do you really think that Barnes thought for a minute that Sean Miller would leave Az ,Archie maybe Sean not a chance in hell. Seems to me Barnes hasn't made any public statements about his list it's all media and fan speculation. Let's not panic just yet.
He's already setting this up as a colossal failure regardless of who comes here.
He's a Jamie Dixon fan not a Pitt fan right now.
Like a few others....
That's cool I get it. But don't spew bs.
Hell lots of these coaches have as many or more tournament wins the last 5 as Dixon did.
We are going to be fine
He's a Jamie Dixon fan not a Pitt fan right now.
Like a few others....
That's cool I get it. But don't spew bs.
Hell lots of these coaches have as many or more tournament wins the last 5 as Dixon did.
We are going to be fine
Uh, Mr. Barnes himself said he had been talking to Dixon for several days about this and working with TCU to make the deal happen while protecting Pitt's financial interests. And volunteered the line about "Every AD... has a list...."
If it was public message board chatter about Dixon talking with TCU, you're awfully naive to think this all happened in one day. And, if an AD is working to help his current coach leave, isn't it AT LEAST as important to be working to line up a good replacement?
As I said in another post, let's all hope things are proceeding quietly, professionally and smoothly behind closed doors. The Miller chaos did no one any good and actually gave us a black eye in many ways.
Why are you looking at only the last 5 years? They aren't going to hire a coach that matches dixon's resume. And I know you'll say that 8 years ago doesn't matter, but it most certainly does because it shows that Dixon can take a program to that level. The new coach will not have shown that.
And btw, simply saying that just about any coach could come here mans even repeat the last several years doesn't make it a fact.
What if the TCU deal had fallen thru? JD even said he was concerned 24 hours ago in his press conference that it might. It is ridiculous for anyone to expect a HC to be in place within 48 hours. If they don't have someone by Early April, then u can start to worry. A lot of action takes place during the Final 4.
You can be a Pitt fan, and appreciate the job JD was doing here.
The big laugh here is at the screaming jackals who thought if JD left, you could swoop in and grab a superstar coach who would immediately bring in 5* recruits, make the tournament every year, get at least to the Elite 8 regardless of seeding and opponent, and get to the Final Four every few years and win the NC more often than not!
The instant gratification crowd has no idea of how competitive college basketball is, how difficult it is to get a school like Pitt to the level where we are, making the tournament most years and competing in a very tough conference, and doing it the right way!
We MAY get a coach as good as JD, I sincerely hope we do, but there is certainly no guarantee that we will.
The old axiom of be careful what you wish for because you just might get it has never been more true!
Because the last 5 years is where we are as a program. 2 botched recruiting classes, and a group of upperclassmen lacking team chemistry and leadership is not a good sign. If we do not hit on the incoming recruits and next year's class then we were going to slide even more.
Maybe. But given dixon's track record, and the fact he can be a winner at the highest levels, I will take him all day over guys like will wade, enfield, and others being mentioned on here.
As we discussed last night, give Barnes credit for apparently going after his top target. He swung for the fences and missed. Its OK. At least he stepped up to the plate and took a few hacks.
No shame in trying. The Walsh debacle and John Miller's quotes are what really added an extra light or two to the whole situation and made it "LOOK" bad when it really isn't.
What happens over the next few weeks (the actual hiring) and what transpires over the next few years will define the whole search process. Way too early at this point. Relax and root for PITT to pick the right guy.
Jamie is gone. It was time for him to move on in HIS MIND. Barnes just didn't beg, plead, and throw more money at him to stay. At this point, it is a WIN-WIN for both Jamie and PITT.
It was time for a change for the betterment of everybody involved. JD looked like he aged 10 years in the last 4 years. Things can and will probably work out for both sides. HAIL TO PITT!
That... and do you really think Barnes wasn't warned of the history between the Miller's and Pitt?? It took all of 1 day for John Miller to bash Pitt in the local media.... gee... never saw that one coming. <sigh>
That is your opinion, but saying things will work is extraordinarily optimistic for pitt.
Harve your the new AD you come into a situation that your coach ,who was tremendously successful early in his career , but has stagnated the last five years do you idly stand by or do you offer your help/thoughts? Now your your coach isn't very receptive to your help/ interference and comes to you and wants out what do you do? Beg him to stay ,offer him more money what would you do differently than Barnes did?
Spin away bob. This isn't about you and me.
Hey, I obviously freely admit I'm happy Miller turned us down. It would be difficult to have been more open about my utter disdain for him and his family.
I think it is disingenuous for anyone to pretend we were not putting a full court press on Miller and got publicly rebuffed. That's like Richie Walsh claiming his source was right and Miller was in town.
I also think it is disingenuous for anyone to pretend we're in a good place right now. We're teetering on the edge.
Dixon is gone. Miller isn't coming. It's pretty obvious the guys publicly interested in this job, Greenberg, Antigua, Jim Cleamons, Brandin, are not the caliber those clamouring for an upgrade were anticipating.
As I've said twice this morning, let's all hope Barnes is conducting a quiet, professional and SUCCESSFUL search now.
To quote Mike Tomlin, This isn't my first rodeo. I've seen a lot of Pitt coaching searches. Not many have been successful.
We ALL want and need this one to work out.
Been wondering about this myself. Did Barnes offer to partner or did he just become the "boss?" One builds a relationship the other well .... If Barnes worked to partner with Jamie and Dixon rebuffed him then shame on Jamie. Likewise if Barnes thought he could just dictate changes. The truth probably lies somewhere in between. I don't gather that either man will miss working with the other.
-Just curious, but have you looked at who Barnes previously hired and how he brought Utah State athletics out of the gutter and into the big league of college sports? You are in the Dixon camp, which is ok, that is your opinion. Barnes isn't an idiot. Some of his coaching hires have been very good, and that is an understatement for a program like Utah State.
Please read Paco's post about boosters, their influence and our history.
Barnes is in a very tough, perhaps untenable position. He was hired to increase revenues and donations. He needs to win to do both but it's pretty arguable that a number of the donors have unrealistic expectations. Nordenberg emphasized ethics over winning. I think most big donors to athletics believe the opposite. Time will tell where Dr. Gallagher stands on this question.
Making a change satisfies the fat cats briefly, but if the replacement doesn't win more than Dixon, they may turn quickly on Barnes.
It is difficult to try to persuade otherwise successful people that they are wrong, particularly while you are trying to solicit bigger donations from them. Or to persuade a very successful coach, one consistently more respected than our program is nationally, to change his methods.
My personal opinion is that Dixon was probably more valuable to Pitt's success than some donors but I'm not responsible for balancing a budget. I can certainly understand why Barnes let him and even helped him go. Ultimately, it is now water under the bridge. It happened and nothing anyone says is going to change it. As DT says in a thread, why are we talking about Jamie anymore? He's not our coach now. Let's move on.
Our history would suggest finding a coach to improve upon Howland's success was unlikely, but an interim AD dd it. We can only hope THIS search is as successful and we remain respectable or even improve.
I know this is Pitt and we just LOVE to look backwards, but we need to move forward. Recriminations will probably fly every time we lose a game, next winter and even later but let's move on.
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Mr. Barnes has the opportunity to prove himself in the big leagues now. The Mountain West is not the ACC. Our budget is over twice as large and the pressure and publicity at least proportionally higher.
His first attempt at a major hire was not so impressive.
Dixon is history. Let's move on. Let us all hope he is conducting a quiet, professional and successful search. We all want a win here.
you need seven dudes that can play...not exactly sure what the statement "a school like Pitt" even means in that regard( an urban school with well over a decade of relative success?)...
If Barnes hadn't at least sent out feelers to see if Miller and other high level coaches were interested hed not be doing his job. There is no egg on his face from that other than from people who have an agenda to micro analyze everything the guy does from here forward because of their loyalties to other former PItt employees.
Barnes will only have egg on his face if the guy he hires is Hayward esque and completely craps the bed. We wont know that until the coach is announced and even then, the guy deserves at least one year to see what he can do. Anyone who places any credibility to what Jon Miller says has an agenda, much like Miller does himself.
The people who EXPECTED Pitt to hire a Marshal or a Miller are in the minority, just like those who ranted about JD needing to be fired were in the minority. That of course doesn't mean that the AD shouldn't at least send out feelers to see if there is interest because Pitt does have a fair amount of cash to throw at a coach and the job is a decent P5 Jobs. Coaches make decisions for various reasons. WHo would have predicted JD to TCU a few months ago?
Lets stop making JD out to be some sort of martyr and Barnes out to be the villain. JD was handsomely compensated and for his level of compensation, results were expected. He was top 25 in the country but the program had not seen top 25 performance for 5 years. The ADS job is to make sure the Pete is filled and cash flows into the program. When attendance ebbs and guys who cut the checks become impatient, the pressure builds. This happens everywhere. Its natural that the AD will begin to look at ways with the coach to turn things around. In the end, JD made a decision to make a fresh start where the pressure to win at a high level is much lower, he has his bud as his boss, and he'll have complete autonomy. Its not Barnes fault he couldn't provide those things at Pitt. As of yet, theres not one person whose indicated what Barnes could have done to keep JD.
Barnes will only have egg on his face if the guy he hires is Hayward esque and completely craps the bed. We wont know that until the coach is announced and even then, the guy deserves at least one year to see what he can do. Anyone who places any credibility to what Jon Miller says has an agenda, much like Miller does himself.
The people who EXPECTED Pitt to hire a Marshal or a Miller are in the minority, just like those who ranted about JD needing to be fired were in the minority. That of course doesn't mean that the AD shouldn't at least send out feelers to see if there is interest because Pitt does have a fair amount of cash to throw at a coach and the job is a decent P5 Jobs. Coaches make decisions for various reasons. WHo would have predicted JD to TCU a few months ago?
Lets stop making JD out to be some sort of martyr and Barnes out to be the villain. JD was handsomely compensated and for his level of compensation, results were expected. He was top 25 in the country but the program had not seen top 25 performance for 5 years. The ADS job is to make sure the Pete is filled and cash flows into the program. When attendance ebbs and guys who cut the checks become impatient, the pressure builds. This happens everywhere. Its natural that the AD will begin to look at ways with the coach to turn things around. In the end, JD made a decision to make a fresh start where the pressure to win at a high level is much lower, he has his bud as his boss, and he'll have complete autonomy. Its not Barnes fault he couldn't provide those things at Pitt. As of yet, theres not one person whose indicated what Barnes could have done to keep JD.
A school like Pitt means one without a long, deep rooted basketball tradition, a school not located in a basketball recruiting hotbed, and a school located in a city where College basketball is an after thought and only of interest to front running fans when the school is having great success.
A school who's basketball success is pretty recent and mostly tied to a tandem of coaches, Howland and Dixon, the latter having fallen out of favor with a large segment of the fanbase for not winning enough, in spite of mostly winning quite a bit.
That's the glass is half empty view..............of course the glass is half full view is that its a program that has demonstrated it can win at a very high level. a program that is willing to pay top 25 money for a good coach, a program that had great support when the program is more than mediocre, a program whose student section is noted as one of the best in the country, a program that has very good facilities and plays in a top conference.................
The majority of that winning was first 7-8 years, and he chose to leave. If he was happy at Pitt, he turns the job down..
1) Deep rooted tradition - kids today do not care what happened 20 years ago.
2) We are within a 6 hour drive of 10 major cites. We are not Alaska for crying out loud.
3) We were the hottest ticket in town for a period of time and had one of the best student sections.
4) You really have turned into a negative nelly.
I try not to be a negative nelly, but I try to stay realistic.
Kids don't care about tradition, but tradition builds a loyal fanbase who give $$$ and show up through thick and thin.
We are close to a lot of cities, but there are top D-1 programs in all of those cities we need to compete with for recruits. Hardly anyone grows up dreaming of playing hoops at Pitt.
Like I said, our fans are mostly front runners, and Pittsburgh folks generally are 1. Steelers 2. Steelers 3. Steelers 4. Pirates, Penguins, then Steelers again.
We are trying hard to be relevant in hoops, but it is a pretty recent undertaking. We have had some recent success, but to a lot it wasn't enough so we're back to the drawing board. Remains to be seen how it works out.
A lot of schools have found out that changing coaches isn't any guarantee for success.
Like I said, we'll see how it plays out..........Hopefully it plays out good. I enjoy watching good basketball at the Pete.
Agree with everything you say. I might argue he was a little naive dealing with the Millers. They played him a bit and maybe he had actually bought into the narrative some on here have that we are a top 15 program.
But, at this point, you are 100% right. Dixon is gone. We all have to pull together and hope Mr. Barnes hits a home run, or at least a solid double.
I b*tched yesterday. Hard to give up on 17 years of good times. Now it's time to pull together and move on.
I'm watching how this situation unfolds.
New AD Barnes had a successful coach under a long term contract with a significant buy out.
New AD was not able to retain said coach.
This on the surface is problematic for me.
Seems to me any AD worth his salt would have been able to retain the coach who had significant loyalty for Pitt and Pittsburgh.
Well it is now water under bridge and time to move on.
However, the AD now must get a new successful coach.
What I except is the AD to get a coach who will be able to get Pitt into the NCAA Tournament 11 out of 13 years MINIMUM.
If this does not happen, then maybe the AD is not worth his salt (anyone can have a list).
Hoping it works out.
If it doesn't, the AD must be held accountable.
Not negative about Barnes (and will give him time) but this move was made by him and he will be evaluated on how this turns out.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
New AD Barnes had a successful coach under a long term contract with a significant buy out.
New AD was not able to retain said coach.
This on the surface is problematic for me.
Seems to me any AD worth his salt would have been able to retain the coach who had significant loyalty for Pitt and Pittsburgh.
Well it is now water under bridge and time to move on.
However, the AD now must get a new successful coach.
What I except is the AD to get a coach who will be able to get Pitt into the NCAA Tournament 11 out of 13 years MINIMUM.
If this does not happen, then maybe the AD is not worth his salt (anyone can have a list).
Hoping it works out.
If it doesn't, the AD must be held accountable.
Not negative about Barnes (and will give him time) but this move was made by him and he will be evaluated on how this turns out.
HAIL TO PITT!!!!
And Archie was also NOT in line for this job, or even wildly considered.. Also wrong.
Here are my expectations. If the roster doesn't have turnover, needs to at least make the tourney 3 of 4 years. Next year, needs to have a top 7 seed, and win a first round game. Those would have been my exact expectations of Jamie next year.
What would you say to 2 appearances in 5 years, but one of those appearances was a final 4?
There is somebody supposedly "in the know" saying differently. Just so much bad information out there this week, it's tough to know what to believe.
Let's hope Mr. Barnes runs a quiet, professional and successful search. I'd add "fast" too.
BTW, I tucked in about 200 yards back followed you for about 50 miles on the way to Annapolis. Better than a radar detector. Thanks.
