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What constitutes being labeled a "National Job"?

Drax1975

Drax1975

Freshman
Mar 18, 2002
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Midland, Pennsylvania
ngscsports.com
I'm just curious, as I am working on an article on what what the parameters are for being labeled a National Job, as it is stated by so many of these geniuses in the National Media when it comes to discussing Pitt?

I'd like to know what the Panther fan base thinks.

I'm not talking just all-time either. Times and programs change. Let's set our sites on judging from the year 2000 till the present.

Just doing a few minutes research, other than Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UConn, and Michigan State, what really is a plum job in the NCAA? Those six are unequivocally the best of the best since 2000. Louisville is an honorable mention. Just think of what those six mentioned have in common... the best of the best in coaching.

Coach K at Duke. Dean Smith and Roy Williams at UNC. Roy Williams and Bill Self at Kansas. John Calipari at Kentucky. Jim Calhoun at UConn (tho Kevin Ollie did win in 2014). Tom Izzo at Michigan State. Rick Pitino at Louisville.

What has UCLA been since Wooden? Indiana since Knight? What was Kentucky before Calipari was hired? What the hell has Arizona done? They were a name thanks to Lute Olsen. They have ONE Final Four since 2000.

If only that damned game vs Villanova had gone the other way...
 
Drax1975 said:
I'm just curious, as I am working on an article on what what the parameters are for being labeled a National Job, as it is stated by so many of these geniuses in the National Media when it comes to discussing Pitt?

I'd like to know what the Panther fan base thinks.

I'm not talking just all-time either. Times and programs change. Let's set our sites on judging from the year 2000 till the present.

Just doing a few minutes research, other than Duke, UNC, Kansas, Kentucky, UConn, and Michigan State, what really is a plum job in the NCAA? Those six are unequivocally the best of the best since 2000. Louisville is an honorable mention. Just think of what those six mentioned have in common... the best of the best in coaching.

Coach K at Duke. Dean Smith and Roy Williams at UNC. Roy Williams and Bill Self at Kansas. John Calipari at Kentucky. Jim Calhoun at UConn (tho Kevin Ollie did win in 2014). Tom Izzo at Michigan State. Rick Pitino at Louisville.

What has UCLA been since Wooden? Indiana since Knight? What was Kentucky before Calipari was hired? What the hell has Arizona done? They were a name thanks to Lute Olsen. They have ONE Final Four since 2000.

If only that damned game vs Villanova had gone the other way...
Click to expand...

I will repost the link to the all-time programs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...s_in_NCAA_Division_I_men's_college_basketball

I think as you read down the list, very few of those programs are no longer relevant.

Maybe recently, UCLA and Illinois (of the P5 schools), and St John's, Pennsylvania and Princeton (from the non-P5 schools) are not Top 25 worthy. But the list looks pretty much like what you'd expect. Look at who's in the Sweet Sixteen? 9 of the Top 50 teams from all time. That doesn't sound like a change to me.
 
Chairman Moe said:
I will repost the link to the all-time programs.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_...s_in_NCAA_Division_I_men's_college_basketball

I think as you read down the list, very few of those programs are no longer relevant.

Maybe recently, UCLA and Illinois (of the P5 schools), and St John's, Pennsylvania and Princeton (from the non-P5 schools) are not Top 25 worthy. But the list looks pretty much like what you'd expect. Look at who's in the Sweet Sixteen? 9 of the Top 50 teams from all time. That doesn't sound like a change to me.
Click to expand...


-How is this even valid information? You have some schools that have played 90 seasons, and other schools that have played 120 seasons on the list.

-Obviously playing an additional 30 years is going to skew the numbers, Moe.
 
steel_curtain said:
-How is this even valid information? You have some schools that have played 90 seasons, and other schools that have played 120 seasons on the list.

-Obviously playing an additional 30 years is going to skew the numbers, Moe.
Click to expand...

Well, choosing the time parameter of 2000 to 2016 will skew the numbers, too, steel.

If you consider that almost 60% of the Sweet Sixteen field this year consists of teams who are in the "all-time" NCAA Top 50 list for win-loss record - regardless of how many years they've been playing BB - that says something to me. That says that those programs are indeed "National Programs". And I thought that was the basis of the question that the OP asked.

And don't think for a moment that recruits ignore all of the banners hanging from the rafters or walls of the arenas at the top schools. Tradition matters. So, maybe IU and UCLA haven't won a NC in awhile - doesn't mean they aren't still top programs. And maybe that's why, when a HC position does come available at one of these old, storied schools, they have coaches lining up to apply
 
Chairman Moe said:
Well, choosing the time parameter of 2000 to 2016 will skew the numbers, too, steel.

If you consider that almost 60% of the Sweet Sixteen field this year consists of teams who are in the "all-time" NCAA Top 50 list for win-loss record - regardless of how many years they've been playing BB - that says something to me. That says that those programs are indeed "National Programs". And I thought that was the basis of the question that the OP asked.

And don't think for a moment that recruits ignore all of the banners hanging from the rafters or walls of the arenas at the top schools. Tradition matters. So, maybe IU and UCLA haven't won a NC in awhile - doesn't mean they aren't still top programs. And maybe that's why, when a HC position does come available at one of these old, storied schools, they have coaches lining up to apply
Click to expand...

-Fair enough. But dont think for a minute an Ace recruiter cant steal recruits left and right from National Powers.
 
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steel_curtain said:
-Fair enough. But dont think for a minute an Ace recruiter cant steal recruits left and right from National Powers.
Click to expand...

I don't. You have a lot of leverage as a coach of a "smaller, mid-major" program when going up against the blue-bloods. Playing time, starter position, and many more. And consider, if you will, how many of the current "second tier/mid-major programs" are doing when they reside in a state where an all-time top programs exists? How about Wichita State --> Kansas? Butler --> Indiana? Gonzaga --> Washington? Dayton ---> Ohio State/Cincinnati/Xavier? The list goes on and on.

What hurts Pitt is its proximity to one of the "blue bloods" of basketball, as well as the local recruits. While there have been some decent recruits from W PA over the years, it's not a hot bed by any means of top-level basketball talent. And given the distance we are from one of the storied programs, we are almost like an "island" when it comes to basketball tradition and perception.

As I said in my "maybe we are delusional" post, Pitt has only grown into the bottom of the Top 50 in the past few years. And as much as I hate to say it, without the rich tradition, a solid, traveling fan base/almuni group, and a plethora of local talent, we are not going to be perceived or identified as a top program. Not saying we can't get there, but hard as the past regime tried, we still have a long way to go.
 
We all know about Enfield's wife, but Drew's wife was a Hawks cheerleader, so according to James Franklin these 2 guys are solid choices.
 
UPitt '89 said:
You brought that on yourself, Mike.

You and Richie jumped the gun with bogus info that you didn't verify.
Click to expand...

Actually not.... My dad just posted what basically Richie and all of KDKA/The Fan was reporting. Half the time he's good at riling this board up just to poke at the plethora smartasses on here. Even I had a hard time believing it as I was listening on radio. Then 11am hit and the walls fell, so to speak.
 
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