Who cares about the ACC? If NC, FSU and Clemson leave, Pitt will be in the B12 within a month. The ACC will be dead.
ACC Realignment Scenario…
- Thread starter HailToPitt725
- Start date
You think Pitt’s administration would rather be associated with Stanford, Duke, Cal or the Big 12 schools?
FSU board members are straight up fanboys. Their public meetings were a total embarrassment, as is their lawsuit.
UNC has one board member chiming up. That is it.
And zero schools are talking about the Big 12. The B12 does nothing for anyone. It is a step down financially. Clemson and FSU, and some factions at UNC-CH, are in pursuit of the SEC and B10. That is it. It is driven completely by the fear of being left behind. No one is talking about ACC teams going to the B12 except B12 fans and fan-bloggers.
The situation in the current makeup of the ACC is way better than the B12. What the future make up will look like will be determined primarily by how many teams leave and ESPN $. No one is running to the B12 unless the ACC completely falls apart or has significantly more money via Fox, and that is far from a given, unless there is some sort of panic.
There is too much in motion to know how it will play out.
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We host FSU and Clemson every 12 years. So that schedule really isn’t that different than our current one.
Every academic administration would prefer such associations. After media contract money, this is a completely underestimated factor to the ACC's advantage.
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Between Clemson, FSU, Miami, UNC, Virginia Tech, and NC State, I don't think the ACC is bad at all. We were still playing them every six years (though it's a lot more frequent now).
Absolutely Stanford, Duke, and Cal. Who cares about 15,000 football fans in the seats and product on the field by these schools. Being able to chum it up academically is the way forward in this era of realignment. Tony Altimore's realignment graphs, heavily leaned to academics, are spot on.
Again, nobody in Pittsburgh cares about Iowa State, TCU, Utah, Texas Tech, Houston. Very few people around here even heard of these schools. The attendance for Pitt vs Duke would be the absolute exact same as Pitt vs Iowa State even if Iowa State was having a good season. So, this is what I am saying. What's the point of playing these JUCO's? Its embarrassing to be associated with these schools. Now, if they were excellent teams who Pitt fans wanted to see, then fine, I wouldn't care if they are JUCOs. But they are extremely mediocre. Better than the Syracuse's and Wake Forest's and Georgia Tech's? Sure. But nobody cares that they are marginally better.
Iowa State is arguably the worst P4 program in the country historically. Duke is like Bama compared to them.
They are all such no-names and we have Pitt fans praying we get a bid to such a trash league. Please. I am fine playing Syracuse, BC, Wake, and GT instead of Houston, Iowa State, Kansas State, and Texas Tech. I dont see how any rational person can see any great advantage in running to that truck stop league.
If the case is heard in Florida by an FSU alum judge, FSU has a 90% chance of winning. Laws really arent a thing. It's just how partial your judge is.
The “settlement” is just false hope by an organization (NCAA) hoping to avoid bankruptcy due to a massive payout to the plaintiffs. And what do they offer the plaintiffs in return for their solvency? A salary cap, no collective bargaining and prevent future legal actions by the plaintiffs.
Obviously, they are not serious about settling and will be starring down the barrel of the extinction gun and then all bets are off on the “future” of “college athletics”.
I totally agree. The only team I care to play in the Big 12 is WVU and they would agree to play us every year OOC.
FSU, Clemson, and UNC are gone eventually, hopefully not until 2036 but probably much sooner. The ACC will also definitely lose a Virginia school, probably UVa over VT given its proximity to DC and its not like the SEC needs UVa to be good. Miami will also either be in a P2. The bigger questions are VT and NC St? Do they bring enough for the Big Ten because UNC and UVa will be in the SEC? Lets say no. Why is this league so much worse gha than the Big 12?
Boston College
California
Connecticut
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
North Carolina State
Pitt
San Diego State
South Florida (new stadium coming)
Southern Methodist
Stanford
Syracuse
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
Memphis or Oregon State to get to 16
There will be a fortune in buyout fees to collect from the departing schools, even if it gets negotiated down. Then you can go out and basically auction off spots: "OK, Memphis, Oregon State, South Florida, UConn, SDSU, UNLV, and Colorado State, we are taking 4. How many years of TV revenue are you willing to give up?"
I honestly dont see how what I posted is significantly better than:
Arizona
Arizona State
Baylor
BYU
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Colorado
Houston
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
TCU
Utah
West Virginia
Boston College
California
Connecticut
Duke
Georgia Tech
Louisville
North Carolina State
Pitt
San Diego State
South Florida (new stadium coming)
Southern Methodist
Stanford
Syracuse
Virginia Tech
Wake Forest
Memphis or Oregon State to get to 16
There will be a fortune in buyout fees to collect from the departing schools, even if it gets negotiated down. Then you can go out and basically auction off spots: "OK, Memphis, Oregon State, South Florida, UConn, SDSU, UNLV, and Colorado State, we are taking 4. How many years of TV revenue are you willing to give up?"
I honestly dont see how what I posted is significantly better than:
Arizona
Arizona State
Baylor
BYU
Central Florida
Cincinnati
Colorado
Houston
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
Oklahoma State
Texas Tech
TCU
Utah
West Virginia
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Agreed. However, whether we agree or not, there is a perception problem and the ACC will have to fight tooth-and-nail to hold onto its existing programs if/when the Big 12 comes calling.
The Big 12 has benefitted from stupidity. Its basically its key strategy.
1. The Pac 12 was all but set to take Texas, Oklahoma, OK St, and TT about 15 years ago until a last second agreement was reached by the B12 to allow Texas to have the LHN. Why couldn't the P12 allow that? Stupid. The B12 lives.
2. After the B12 survived this, its internet trolls (The Dude, Greg Swaim, etc) went on an offensive of fake news and had the idiot fanboys at FSU begging for a bid. This destabilized the ACC. Stupidity.
3. When Texas and OU left, the Pac 12 or ACC could have finished off the Big 12 but chose not to. Stupidity.
4. When FSU, Clem, and UNC leave, I am sure there will be fanboy BOT members who pressure ACC members to join the Big 12 instead of uniting and rebuilding the ACC into a similar league as the ACC. Again, the Big 12 will benefit from stupidity.
All fine schools in both. Since you asked, first two below based off CBS top 25 preseason rankings:
Football: Big 12 - 5, ACC - 2
Basketball: Big 12 - 5, ACC - 2
Private affiliation: Big 12 - 3, ACC - 6
I didn't ask what their rankings would be for the upcoming preseason. I meant more longer-term as conference affiliations are planned based on 1 year.
You didn't ask but it is a way to measure. Attendance, tv ratings are other measurables but didn't bother looking them up. Throw in US News academic rankings too. ACC has that won.
Going forward, I wouldn't expect B12 TV ratings to be any good. Neither would my new hypothetical ACC's. Attendance would be better in the Big 12. The difference, I guess, is one league has sucky programs who like football and the other has sucky programs who dont.
I think everyone is overthinking this. As long as you have access to the playoff who cares? Even if Florida State, Clemson and UNC left the rest of the conference would still include (more than likely) Miami, Va Tech, Louisville, Boston College, Syracuse, Pitt, Ga Tech, Stanford, Cal and even SMU. Those are schools with name recognition, history and in big TV markets. I find it hard to believe that a football conference comprised of these ACC schools would not have one of the four auto bids. And even if they didn't have the auto bid, it would more likely than not produce a team good enough to make it with an at large selection or the G5 auto selection most years. They would still have a national TV contract and be able to compete just like remaining Big East schools did in basketball after the split.
No offense to the Tar Heels, but what the hell has UNC football ever won? Clemson won a national championship in the 80s and then was largely irrelevant until the 2010s. FSU was terrible for 10 years before they got their act together. These things are cyclical. I get that FSU is a brand built over 50 years. And Clemson isn't too far behind them. But even if they leave (I don't really care who the other two are, unless it's Miami and/or maybe Va Tech) the ACC it is still the one of the Top 4 conferences in the country even before adding new teams. Sure the SEC and B10 will probably have 6-7 spots in the new CFP but there is no reason to think that he ACC champion won't have at least one of the other 5-6 spots. Not sure that would change adding a bunch of new schools from less conferences or even the B12.
Just stay the course and let it all play out. Would rather be a big fish in a little pond with a legitimate chance to make the CFP than an also ran in the B10 or SEC anyway.
No offense to the Tar Heels, but what the hell has UNC football ever won? Clemson won a national championship in the 80s and then was largely irrelevant until the 2010s. FSU was terrible for 10 years before they got their act together. These things are cyclical. I get that FSU is a brand built over 50 years. And Clemson isn't too far behind them. But even if they leave (I don't really care who the other two are, unless it's Miami and/or maybe Va Tech) the ACC it is still the one of the Top 4 conferences in the country even before adding new teams. Sure the SEC and B10 will probably have 6-7 spots in the new CFP but there is no reason to think that he ACC champion won't have at least one of the other 5-6 spots. Not sure that would change adding a bunch of new schools from less conferences or even the B12.
Just stay the course and let it all play out. Would rather be a big fish in a little pond with a legitimate chance to make the CFP than an also ran in the B10 or SEC anyway.
Right. I hope the ACC leftovers think this way. It would still have 2 auto bids to the 14 team playoff just like the Big 12.
That’s not even accurate. Clemson, Miami, Florida State, SMU, and NC State are all ranked in CBS preseason Top 25 poll.
CBS Preseason Top 25 Poll
How has your Big 12 done when it matters? When was the last title in football? How have they been doing in the NCAA tournament?
B12 basketball is good in November when it counts and I am serious. The most important basketball games of the season according to the committee are in November
If UNC leaves, they have to take their corrupt, homer referees with them.
Basketball, very good. Championship game 2019, best team in 2020 before season shut down, won whole thing in 2021 and 2022. This past March was rough, yes.
In 2020, Iowa State finished the season ranked 10th with a win in the Fiesta Bowl. The last time Pitt finished ranked in the top 10 with a major bowl win was 1982.
Their football has been decent. Certainly not the worst like the poster said. But they have to be one of the least appealing P4s. Small market, #2 team in a small state.
Provincial eastern group more interesting to me at this point. If it would fall under a larger 'B12' or 'P3' umbrella, could live with that I guess.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
It's funny that "quality" or "national standing" is still something people bring up in these conference discussions. "But basketball is good," as if anyone cares.
Florida State has has only won more than 7 games twice in the last seven years and hasn't played basketball in the tournament in five years but nobody thinks they will get left out because they are located in a desirable east-coast media market, they just happen to be located where all of the top HS talent lives, and they have wealthy boosters that support the program.
Most eastern schools don't have the rabid following and generally suck at football but are located in vast media markets where people have interest in watching and betting on the games. There is still a decent sized pool of talented athletes in those markets. Not as valuable to the P2 but at the end of the day, advertisers will pay to have those crummy games on TV because there are enough eyes, even on the worst days, to make it worth it. It's why schools that are west of the Mississippi have done everything in their power to cater to east coast television markets. Want to start games at 9AM local time? Sure!
Florida State has has only won more than 7 games twice in the last seven years and hasn't played basketball in the tournament in five years but nobody thinks they will get left out because they are located in a desirable east-coast media market, they just happen to be located where all of the top HS talent lives, and they have wealthy boosters that support the program.
Most eastern schools don't have the rabid following and generally suck at football but are located in vast media markets where people have interest in watching and betting on the games. There is still a decent sized pool of talented athletes in those markets. Not as valuable to the P2 but at the end of the day, advertisers will pay to have those crummy games on TV because there are enough eyes, even on the worst days, to make it worth it. It's why schools that are west of the Mississippi have done everything in their power to cater to east coast television markets. Want to start games at 9AM local time? Sure!
FSU , Clemson and UNC will be little fish in their new conference (If they leave the ACC).
The Big 12 took 4 Pac teams (ASU, Arizona State, Colorado and Utah) which have a combined state population of only 16 million and had to take 4 AAC teams to survive.
No ACC team is leaving the ACC for the Big 12. If anything the ACC will pick apart the Big 12, assuming they don't go to Washington State and Oregon State (Both P-5) to get a Western Pod like the B1G.
HAIL To PITT!!!!
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According to Jim Phillips the contract with the ACC and ESPN is a 'look in" rather than an "opt out". I do not think the Big 10 or the SEC will expand until their media rights expire in 2030 and 2031. Like it or not, no one is leaving the ACC till at least then.
He said the deal goes to 2036. At the time of the contract signing, it was said back then that there were look-in periods. Hypothetically, I would think that ESPN could opt to pay a little less during these look-in periods but they cant opt out of the contract like Warchant Board of Trustees says.
The lawsuits aren’t going to take that long.
FSU and Clemson are out. One way or another.
Hopefully they take it to court and dont settle. A settlement equals a loss. Well, unless of course the ACC is certain they will lose in court, in which case you settle for a few million I guess.
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