ACC Realignment Scenario…

[cashisking884]

Hopefully they take it to court and dont settle. A settlement equals a loss. Well, unless of course the ACC is certain they will lose in court, in which case you settle for a few million I guess.

At this point is probably a race to the finish line between the competing lawsuits.

But either way, settle or judgment, Clemson and FSU aren’t in the ACC for the next 6 to 7 years.

They’ll go independent and have the ACC stroke them a check for their share of the media rights.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

At this point is probably a race to the finish line between the competing lawsuits.

But either way, settle or judgment, Clemson and FSU aren’t in the ACC for the next 6 to 7 years.

They’ll go independent and have the ACC stroke them a check for their share of the media rights.

A settlement is a loss and means that FSU and Clemson will be gone as soon as next July. So the ACC has to handicap its chance of winning in court. If it feels it cant win, they'd settle to get some kind of money out of them. This is why they may as well go to court. However, if its heard in Florida, the likelihood is they'd lose so maybe they settle. If its heard in NC, they may win so maybe they take it to court.

Hypothetically, if the ACC wins in court, then FSU and Clemson will be in the league until close to 2036. They arent going Independent with no TV revenue and no auto CFP bid.

 

[Gep Dawg]

Where is Florida State and Clemson going? Is ESPN really going to let them leave their network for B10? Are they really going to allow them to go to SEC so they have to pay them more? Does the SEC really want them when they already have big name schools in Florida and South Carolina?

Everyone acts like they will automatically get an equal share offer from one of the B12. It doesn't really add up

 

[cashisking884]

Hypothetically, if the ACC wins in court, then FSU and Clemson will be in the league until close to 2036. They arent going Independent with no TV revenue and no auto CFP bid.

That’s not hypothetically how it works.

People on this board have been making this point going back to last summer. I tried to correct it.

There’s no such thing in contract law where even the party that breached the contract does not get compensation.

If I hire you to paint my house and you breach our contract, my damages are the cost to me between my expected benefit of the bargain and what I paid due to your breach. If you did work on my home, you still get compensation for that, even if you breach

The GOR does not mean that you *literally* do not get any tv revenue if you leave the conference. That would be illegal and equivalent of the “you breached, so you have to paint my house for free.”

The harms to the ACC is benefit of the bargain they expected. Which is the revenue received due to having FSU and Clemson part of the media package.
The ACC still has to pay those teams for the work done painting the media house.

FSU and Clemson will just take that money and go independent if they have to.

*Edit*

Here’s this board’s favorite pro-ACC legal mind that is frequently cited in these discussions:

“Moreover, FSU's portrayal of the ACC as holding its media rights hostage is misleading. Under contract law, any retention of FSU's media rights by the ACC would necessitate equitable compensation to FSU. Contract law, especially, does not allow for an undeserved financial windfall for the #ACC.”

 

[joeydavid]

Big XII teams aren't coming here. If anything, the NC States and VTs of the world, if they don't land in the P2, are likely to go there.

"Let's go make less money in the B12..." said by no one.

 

[Islanderpanther]

That’s not hypothetically how it works.

People on this board have been making this point going back to last summer. I tried to correct it.

There’s no such thing in contract law where even the party that breached the contract does not get compensation.

If I hire you to paint my house and you breach our contract, my damages are the cost to me between my expected benefit of the bargain and what I paid due to your breach. If you did work on my home, you still get compensation for that, even if you breach

The GOR does not mean that you *literally* do not get any tv revenue if you leave the conference. That would be illegal and equivalent of the “you breached, so you have to paint my house for free.”

The harms to the ACC is benefit of the bargain they expected. Which is the revenue received due to having FSU and Clemson part of the media package.
The ACC still has to pay those teams for the work done painting the media house.

FSU and Clemson will just take that money and go independent if they have to.

*Edit*

Here’s this board’s favorite pro-ACC legal mind that is frequently cited in these discussions:

“Moreover, FSU's portrayal of the ACC as holding its media rights hostage is misleading. Under contract law, any retention of FSU's media rights by the ACC would necessitate equitable compensation to FSU. Contract law, especially, does not allow for an undeserved financial windfall for the #ACC.”

View embedded media

I think your analysis is tortured and off.

Clemson and FSU are, in effect, arguing that the GOR contract is one of adhesion and/or is unconscionable…that argument is a farce. The truth is that these schools were dumb and entered into a bad deal( with the benefit of hindsight) but a deal that appeared to them to be attractive at the time. Tough luck! If Clemson and FSU lose this case, which I believe they will, and the plaintiffs don’t pay the withdrawal fee, the ACC will seek specific performance of the GOR contract and will win. This isn’t a personal performance contract so that specific performance as the awarded relief is perfectly viable. I see no scenario where somehow FSU and Clemson go independent….unless they pay the withdrawal penalty, which they won’t. This lawsuit makes these crackers look as dumb and arrogant as they really are!

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Where is Florida State and Clemson going? Is ESPN really going to let them leave their network for B10? Are they really going to allow them to go to SEC so they have to pay them more? Does the SEC really want them when they already have big name schools in Florida and South Carolina?

Everyone acts like they will automatically get an equal share offer from one of the B12. It doesn't really add up

FSU and UNC will 100% be in the SEC. The SEC doesn't necessarily want them but they dont want the B10 in Florida. Clemson brings a duplicate market to the SEC and there's no guarantee they can sustain success if Dabo were to leave so I'm not so sure they are a take for the SEC. But the B10 would certainly take them.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

That’s not hypothetically how it works.

People on this board have been making this point going back to last summer. I tried to correct it.

There’s no such thing in contract law where even the party that breached the contract does not get compensation.

If I hire you to paint my house and you breach our contract, my damages are the cost to me between my expected benefit of the bargain and what I paid due to your breach. If you did work on my home, you still get compensation for that, even if you breach

The GOR does not mean that you *literally* do not get any tv revenue if you leave the conference. That would be illegal and equivalent of the “you breached, so you have to paint my house for free.”

The harms to the ACC is benefit of the bargain they expected. Which is the revenue received due to having FSU and Clemson part of the media package.
The ACC still has to pay those teams for the work done painting the media house.

FSU and Clemson will just take that money and go independent if they have to.

*Edit*

Here’s this board’s favorite pro-ACC legal mind that is frequently cited in these discussions:

“Moreover, FSU's portrayal of the ACC as holding its media rights hostage is misleading. Under contract law, any retention of FSU's media rights by the ACC would necessitate equitable compensation to FSU. Contract law, especially, does not allow for an undeserved financial windfall for the #ACC.”

View embedded media

I don't think you are correct and that's what would be challenged. FSU granted the rights to broadcast their home games and the revenue derived from them to the ACC. However, if they arent in the ACC, they arent due a conference payout. Its tricky legal language.

 

[FireballZ]

"Let's go make less money in the B12..." said by no one.

When you've been chicken-littlin' for almost a decade, ya gotta stick with it.

 

[cashisking884]

I think your analysis is tortured and off.

Clemson and FSU are, in effect, arguing that the GOR contract is one of adhesion and/or is unconscionable…that argument is a farce. The truth is that these schools were dumb and entered into a bad deal( with the benefit of hindsight) but a deal that appeared to them to be attractive at the time. Tough luck! If Clemson and FSU lose this case, which I believe they will, and the plaintiffs don’t pay the withdrawal fee, the ACC will seek specific performance of the GOR contract and will win. This isn’t a personal performance contract so that specific performance as the awarded relief is perfectly viable. I see no scenario where somehow FSU and Clemson go independent….unless they pay the withdrawal penalty, which they won’t. This lawsuit makes these crackers look as dumb and arrogant as they really are!

You’re not saying anything contrary to what I wrote.

Yes, the ACC will seek specific performance.

But a lot of people think that means FSU and Clemson will be with “no tv revenue” if they leave the ACC and don’t win the lawsuit.

That’s simply not how contract law works. There is absolutely no state, even North Carolina, that would require specific performance and no compensation. That’s called slavery.

There is no scenario at the end of this where FSU and Clemson are without tv revenue.

It’s a question of:

Which conference gets it, and how much tv revenue will those two schools get?

 

[HailToPitt725]

FSU and UNC will 100% be in the SEC. The SEC doesn't necessarily want them but they dont want the B10 in Florida. Clemson brings a duplicate market to the SEC and there's no guarantee they can sustain success if Dabo were to leave so I'm not so sure they are a take for the SEC. But the B10 would certainly take them.

What do you think about Clemson and Florida St to the Big Ten and North Carolina and Virginia to the SEC?

I personally don’t buy the UVA hype, but where there’s smoke there’s fire and it’d make some sense (expands their footprint while staying in the south, peer institutions). Virginia may actually have more potential than most people think because as an athletic department, they’re one of the highest spenders in the country. That has to count for something.

 

[cashisking884]

I don't think you are correct and that's what would be challenged. FSU granted the rights to broadcast their home games and the revenue derived from them to the ACC. However, if they arent in the ACC, they arent due a conference payout. Its tricky legal language.

There is *literally* no jurisdiction that would allow what you’re describing.

The ACC isn’t even arguing that’s the contract to the courts. They have argued the complete opposite.

Because in your hypothetical, it truly is a pure punishment clause. Which is why FSU is trying to portray the GOR in the light you are. Because then it would be illegal, no question.

 

[ThePanthers]

"Let's go make less money in the B12..." said by no one.

They’d never leave for the big xii in today’s acc makeup, but if the big guns leave the acc the big xii will be ahead of the reconfigured acc.

 

[CrazyPaco]

They’d never leave for the big xii in today’s acc makeup, but if the big guns leave the acc the big xii will be ahead of the reconfigured acc.

How many "big guns"? Not sure that is true. Will also depend on ESPN.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

What do you think about Clemson and Florida St to the Big Ten and North Carolina and Virginia to the SEC?

I personally don’t buy the UVA hype, but where there’s smoke there’s fire and it’d make some sense (expands their footprint while staying in the south, peer institutions). Virginia may actually have more potential than most people think because as an athletic department, they’re one of the highest spenders in the country. That has to count for something.

FSU and UNC are a million percent going to the SEC. Clemson will be in the B10 or SEC. UVa I'm not so sure about but also probably the SEC or B10. Miami will also be in one of them.

 

[joeydavid]

They’d never leave for the big xii in today’s acc makeup, but if the big guns leave the acc the big xii will be ahead of the reconfigured acc.

The bottom 75% of the ACC is worth more than the whole B12.

 

[HailToPitt725]

The bottom 75% of the ACC is worth more than the whole B12.

I agree with you but like I told SMF, the ACC has a perception problem whether we like it or not. The Big 12 has shown to be aggressive and if they start offering ACC schools “lifeboats” if/when the top 25% officially leave, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone takes it.

Like we saw with the Pac-12, all it takes is one or two schools backing out (e.g., Oregon and Washington) for everyone else to follow, especially if uncertainty arises with the ACC’s ESPN contract.

 

[joeydavid]

I agree with you but like I told SMF, the ACC has a perception problem whether we like it or not. The Big 12 has shown to be aggressive and if they start offering ACC schools “lifeboats” if/when the top 25% officially leave, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone takes it.

Like we saw with the Pac-12, all it takes is one or two schools backing out (e.g., Oregon and Washington) for everyone else to follow, especially if uncertainty arises with the ACC’s ESPN contract.

Unless something drastically changes, why would an ACC team go to the B12 for less money and more costs?

I think you would see some sort of merger before any of the bottom 75% of the ACC would choose to leave.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

I believe this case will be adjudicated in North Carolina and ESPN has joined with the ACC Conference against Florida State.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[cashisking884]

I believe this case will be adjudicated in North Carolina and ESPN has joined with the ACC Conference against Florida State.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

The case is being adjudicated in multiple states. The FL Court has already denied the motion to stay the case.

 

[CrazyPaco]

At this point is probably a race to the finish line between the competing lawsuits.

But either way, settle or judgment, Clemson and FSU aren’t in the ACC for the next 6 to 7 years.

They’ll go independent and have the ACC stroke them a check for their share of the media rights.

And how many scheduling openings are there on other teams schedules over the next 6-7 years? Are they going to be playing UConn and 7 FCS home games?

 

[ThePanthers]

I agree with you but like I told SMF, the ACC has a perception problem whether we like it or not. The Big 12 has shown to be aggressive and if they start offering ACC schools “lifeboats” if/when the top 25% officially leave, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone takes it.

Like we saw with the Pac-12, all it takes is one or two schools backing out (e.g., Oregon and Washington) for everyone else to follow, especially if uncertainty arises with the ACC’s ESPN contract.

This. Colorado jumped ship and Arizona was close behind. That was all before Oregon and Washington moved. Once that happened, and now that they have az state and Utah in tow too they are in a better spot if fsu Clemson and especially unc leave

 

[ThePanthers]

And how many scheduling openings are there on other teams schedules over the next 6-7 years? Are they going to be playing UConn and 7 FCS home games?

Yeah, I don’t understand the go independent route for making the same money they would in the acc.

 

[CrazyPaco]

This. Colorado jumped ship and Arizona was close behind. That was all before Oregon and Washington moved. Once that happened, and now that they have az state and Utah in tow too they are in a better spot if fsu Clemson and especially unc leave

The Pac had way more issues than the ACC, including a money bleeding network that they fully owned and couldn't figure out how to dump, and their GOR and media contracts were up. It had been a complete mess for years.

The ACC situation is different and much more complicated with many years left on its media contracts. There are a lot of possible results and a lot to play out and a lot of things changing in the landscape in general that are completely out of everyone's control. It is impossible to say for sure what is things will look like 2 years from now let alone 10 years.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I agree with you but like I told SMF, the ACC has a perception problem whether we like it or not. The Big 12 has shown to be aggressive and if they start offering ACC schools “lifeboats” if/when the top 25% officially leave, I wouldn’t be surprised if someone takes it.

Like we saw with the Pac-12, all it takes is one or two schools backing out (e.g., Oregon and Washington) for everyone else to follow, especially if uncertainty arises with the ACC’s ESPN contract.

Like, could the Big 12 pull a Louisville? Culturally, they fit in the B12. Close to Cincy and WVU.....but they dont necessarily like those schools. Academically, they have tried to use the ACC to raise their profile. The Big 12 affiation takes them back to JUCO status. If they can pull 1 or 2 ACC schools, then yea, maybe a bunch of others get scared and leave. But how dumb do they expect the ACC schools to be? Again, the Big 12 has thrived on the stupidity of others. Can it continue?

 

[Houclone4]

Like, could the Big 12 pull a Louisville? Culturally, they fit in the B12. Close to Cincy and WVU.....but they dont necessarily like those schools. Academically, they have tried to use the ACC to raise their profile. The Big 12 affiation takes them back to JUCO status. If they can pull 1 or 2 ACC schools, then yea, maybe a bunch of others get scared and leave. But how dumb do they expect the ACC schools to be? Again, the Big 12 has thrived on the stupidity of others. Can it continue?

You may be right. Look at history though. Oregon State, Washington State, and Utah among others were saying the same thing that Colorado would be stupid to go back to the Big 12. They sited academics and how the Big 12 was trash without the brand names. End of the day, Oregon State's and Washington state's life as they knew it is over. Utah reluctantly jumped in the boat before the it sped off.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

They sited academics and how the Big 12 was trash

Cant make this up

 

[Pitt79]

Also what I've said. Lets go to the Big East and form our own little football league, maybe we can even call that the Big East:

Pitt
Syr
Lou
Syr
BC
Duke
Wake
UConn
etc

No interest in starting rivalries with Great Plains farming schools

Why does Syracuse get 2 teams?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Why does Syracuse get 2 teams?

Have their hoops team play football too. Can't do much worse