Which Is More Important: Dual Meet Or Tournament Good

[mike412]

Since we aren’t going to have much else to talk about re wrestling in the next few weeks:

I was looking at the latest Intermat Rankings, and it was surprising, once you get beyond the top few teams, how little similarity there is between their rankings of the top dual meet teams and the top tournament teams.

For example, Northwestern is not in the top 20 dual meet teams, but they are ranked as the #6 tournament team. Having two top-ranked wrestlers, in Rivera and Deakins, will do that.

Pitt is ranked #10 in dual meets but only #16 in tournaments. Obviously, Intermat didn’t see any likely champions out of our 7 qualifiers.
By contrast, NC State was selected as the #2 dual meet team — over PSU — but was much lower as a tourney team. Campbell was the #12 dual meet team but not in the tournament rankings. Princeton was in the top ten tourney teams, again primarily on the strength of two highly-ranked individual wrestlers.

It would be great to be #1 in both (Iowa), but if we could be a top 5 team in one but would not even be in the top 10 in the other, in which would you rather be ranked highly?

A high finish in the NCAAs is probably more prestigious, but personally I would rather have a highly-ranked dual meet team. Much more enjoyment for me in the 3 months of dual meet wins than in one long weekend of NCAA glory.

 

[thom67]

I would rather be high in NCAA tourney.

 

[DevilDog42]

If I had to pick I would say NCAA but there is something to be said for consecutive acc championships as a dual meet team. But to your first point I think of your going to become that successful as a dual meet squad NCAA succes is not very far behind

 

[Kreitzer]

I am a big proponent of having a true dual meet national championship and moving the season to one semester. Individual championship would remain. Of course, I like thin crust and thick crust pizza. Why can’t we have it all???

 

[lucac]

Duals are fun but the only thing that matters in college wrestling in the current landscape is the tournament. Coaches and programs are all judged mostly by how the do in March. I agree though a dual national championship tournament would be so amazing

 

[mike412]

I remember one year back when Missouri was really good (before they left the Big 12 and started wrestling in the MAC), Intermat had them as the #1 dual meet team even though Iowa (I think) was the NCAA tournament winner. I would loved to have seen a dual meet between them.

 

[omega]

Tournament champions and AA's are all that matters. Those are the names that younger kids follow. That helps in recruiting and builds the program.

 

[bwh05]

I am a big proponent of having a true dual meet national championship and moving the season to one semester. Individual championship would remain. Of course, I like thin crust and thick crust pizza. Why can’t we have it all???

The NCAA will only sponsor one national championship event for each sport so it’s either or from the standpoint of them paying for it. Several options have been looked at to include a dual meet component to the team scores at nationals but you’d need everyone to participate to make it work.

the old school mentality was that dual meets aren’t important, nationals are all that matters. I think to grow the sport the team component is critical. It’s easier to sell Pitt vs WVU to the masses than it is individual vs individual wrestler.

 

[FOPittWrestling]

If your trying to recruit top talent, ask the kids your recruiting if they want to be an national champion/AA or part of a top six team. And for that matter, go on and ask them if a program that can develop you for a world or Olympic championship is desirable to them. I think that will answer what is important to a wrestler. Its all about the podium and the world podium is better than the national podium.

No doubt identifying with a team creates a buzz. Fans and marketing interests want people to identify with their team because the bragging rights stay with them after the individual champion has moved on. Marketing interests want to sell stuff (and/or donations) to fans year after year.

I hope the NIKE/ ESPN talking heads/MMA marketing hype machine doesn't ruin what has always been an honorable sport. What those guys want in order to generate big bucks is often counter to what has made wrestling and wrestlers special. I already see a little of this creeping in with the trash talking and sparing with opposing benches and fans in the stands.

The new arms race by the way, is the "roster" of world team members in your RTC. That's what attracts top high school talent. Help Gavin and Co develop the RTC and watch what happens on the podium AND with team ranking.

Finally, I vote one semester. Getting rid of the grind over the holidays will be beneficial on bodies and grades. Maybe an easier transition for football players will help the heavyweight talent pool and make the 220 weight necessary.

 

[pletch5]

Spot on about let’s get Pittsburgh RTC heading in the right direction and watch the talent Rool in. Although I agree getting to the podium is the goal of any individual wrestler once that happens the team success will go hand in hand. I also 100 disagree on one semester the early season tourneys are some of the most exciting there is. Then after the first of the year you have a couple months of good duals getting ready for individuals. Hopefully everything stays coarse for Pitt and a couple young national guys joins the Pitt club would help immensely with training and recruiting.

 

[mike412]

It’s understandable why the wrestlers in a RTC help draw premium talent. Right now, if you are a high school senior wrestler who projects at 125 or 133 , wouldn’t you want to go where Spencer Lee is now and will be (assuming he stays in Iowa City). On the other hand, hypothetically if Lee and Luke return to Pittsburgh and wrestle here, Pitt will be the place to go for wrestlers from 125 to 149.

I think Brooks, the PSU freshman, would have won the NCAAs as a frosh this year. One of the big reasons for that would have been working out with Vincenzo and Mark Hall in the wrestling room. But working out with David Taylor, who is still at their RTC, I believe, also is a great advantage.

 

[DevilDog42]

When they graduate if I were Pitt RTC and I know it will take a lot of fundraising I would throw the money at spencer Lee, Vincenzo Joseph or Marinelli. The upper weights are tougher to find a great local guy but between megaludis and 2 of these guys the rtc could instantly become one of the top 4 in the country

 

[pafootballguy]

When they graduate if I were Pitt RTC and I know it will take a lot of fundraising I would throw the money at spencer Lee, Vincenzo Joseph or Marinelli. The upper weights are tougher to find a great local guy but between megaludis and 2 of these guys the rtc could instantly become one of the top 4 in the country

Nico is barely competing anymore so you are not getting much from him being around. I also doubt Pitt will ever have the money to compete with big clubs and RTCs. Even with those guys, it is not a top 4 RTC. This means Pitt is going to have to be a program that focuses on development.

 

[bwh05]

Nico is barely competing anymore so you are not getting much from him being around. I also doubt Pitt will ever have the money to compete with big clubs and RTCs. Even with those guys, it is not a top 4 RTC. This means Pitt is going to have to be a program that focuses on development.

nico has been injured. That’s why he wasn’t competing.

 

[pafootballguy]

nico has been injured. That’s why he wasn’t competing.

That's true but he was not as committed to the sport as others before.

 

[pletch5]

It’s understandable why the wrestlers in a RTC help draw premium talent. Right now, if you are a high school senior wrestler who projects at 125 or 133 , wouldn’t you want to go where Spencer Lee is now and will be (assuming he stays in Iowa City). On the other hand, hypothetically if Lee and Luke return to Pittsburgh and wrestle here, Pitt will be the place to go for wrestlers from 125 to 149.

I think Brooks, the PSU freshman, would have won the NCAAs as a frosh this year. One of the big reasons for that would have been working out with Vincenzo and Mark Hall in the wrestling room. But working out with David Taylor, who is still at their RTC, I believe, also is a great advantage.

Would be great to get a nice 141 guy to work out with 125-157 And could help with recruiting