Who is the better coach?
- Thread starter APanther
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Hard to say. Very different coaches with different career paths. They haven't really had jobs at comparable schools. I'll just say I like them both and leave it at that,
Even if you ignore the 3 Top 10 seasons in four years at Penn State what about his time in Vanderbilt? You wouldn’t consider Vanderbilt at least comparable to Pitt? I would say Vanderbilt is even worse then Pitt yet Franklin managed to finish in the top 25 twice. In the 140 seasons of Vanderbilt football they had a total of 3 Top 25 seasons two of which were under Franklin. They haven’t had one since he left. Narduzzi has accomplished next to nothing at Pitt. A costal division championship and a few upsets. He has yet to put together a season where they haven’t lost at least 5 games.
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This is Franklin, and it isn’t close. Franklin is a top 10 coach, although not an elite coach. For what it’s worth, I don’t see Ryan Day is elite either. For me, elite is Dabo, Saban, and Lincoln Riley. Then there’s a 2nd tier where Ryan Day, Coach O, Franklin are. Elite recruiters who consistently have their teams in the top-10 and may have even won a NC.
If you give Narduzzi the same resources and talent they get to 10 wins every year. Yeah Franklin is the better recruiter but how high would he be able to get Pitt? Zero chance Pitt would win 8 or more games with him at the helm.
No, this is false. Pat lacks an identity. We know this because after Pickett’s humiliating ACC Championship game performance, he suddenly went from run first, to pass first offense. He has no idea what he wants to be on offense, and he has a coordinator who’s clueless and should have retired years ago. Pat is also so stubborn, he has significant coaching defects that make him what he is, an 8 win coach in his best year.
One part of the equation is how committed the coach is. Narduzzi isn't leaving Pitt ... MSU might have been the chance, but he didn't bite. Franklin's family isn't living in Pennsylvania, so I get a sense that he has one foot out the door.
I would like to think that if Narduzzi had Barkley and also go to play 2020 in it's original format his career record would be pretty good. Like Narduzzi or not he has played a lot of difficult games. PSU has been 6-0 before 2 games into big 10 play for Franklins career. Franklin is the better recruiter but he also is selling 110,000 (which kids love) vs city school that has Heinz at 45K. Narduzzi in my opinion has made 1 mistake. Need to hire a big time run game and did have the $ or didn't find the person.
I can’t believe people are taking this seriously?
If PN were fired after this season he would be a Def Coordinator next year, or at best the HC Coach at someplace like Ball St.
Franklin would have his choice of good P5 HC positions.
If PN were fired after this season he would be a Def Coordinator next year, or at best the HC Coach at someplace like Ball St.
Franklin would have his choice of good P5 HC positions.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Franklin's job at Vanderbilt is probably more impressive than either his job at PSU (which is trending down) or Narduzzi's at Pitt (which seems to be flat line?) I don't know how that translates into answering the question.
you make a huge assumption on what "after this season" means...if "this season" is 2-6 I'm not sure anyone is beating down Franklin's door such that he has a bevy of choices...
One bad season, is not going to diminish his value that much. This isn’t easy for me to say, I can’t stand JF personally, and I hate PSU.
They could go 2-6, and we could end up 7-5 with a bowl win, and JF would be MUCH more in demand than PN, it’s not even close.
Easier to recruit at Penn State. Recruits get to compare a "white out" to a "yellow out" i.e., empty seats.
Screw this. If the NCAA had any credibility PSU wouldn’t have a football program. Just say no to pedo.
I don't think that would make it a whole hell of alot easier to answer. They both have shown to have serious deficiencies.
I don’t think it’s hard at all. It’s not even close. Franklin is far better by every measure. It’s all about wins and losses. There is no other metric. I dislike PSU but I think Frankie knows what he’s doing.
Narduzzi hasn’t seemed to have improved much if at all in his 6 years as HC.
I think the fact Franklin doesn't appear to be totally into this season has something to do with his team having the worst winning percentage in all of NCAA football right now. And like someone said above, the bottomline for coaching is wins and losses.
That’s interesting. Do his other 9 years as a head coach have any weight in your equation? Or are we just going with this one season and the 3 games Franklin has coached so far in it?
I think they both know what they are doing.
I disagree about wins & losses being the only metric in college football. There is such a wide discrepancy between resources, culture, and access to talent between schools. You can't use wins/losses as the only metric to compare a coaches at BC, Texas, and Kansas, for example. It just isn't logical, imo.
Tough to compare. It is not apples to apples. Franklin is at a football factory, with big crowds and big budgets. It is much easier to recruit at PSU, and he does a good job with it. However, despite the top talent he recruits, his failure to win the 'big games' for the most part, diminishes his value. He is something like 6-16 against the top teams in the B1G. He has been often criticized for his game coaching. Narduzzi is in the opposite situation, whereas Pitt is struggling to be a top program. He has leveled off in the results, even though his recruiting seems to be upgrading. He has beaten some top teams, but lost quite a few winnable games against equal teams. Franklin won the B1G championship game a few years back, and Narduzzi won a Coastal. I would say Franklin holds a higher value because of the high profile program he runs, but personally, I don't think he is a better coach, when you consider results per talent level.
Narduzzi's program in year 6 is no better than it was in year 1, and in fact is probably worse. Nothing impressive has happened in between. The needle has stayed on the low side of middle the entire 6 years. The man was hired to win football games. he talked a big game about doing so. And here we are.
how would you compare the football resources at Vanderbilt to those at Pitt?
I think one has to be virtually blinded by PSU hatred to actually believe, on an intellectual level, that Narduzzi is an equivalent or better head coach than Franklin. Go outside the Pitt fan base community with this inquiry and see what the response to that would be. you'd be laughed out of the room. Hate him if you will, I get it--but he is a very good head coach and has proven that his entire career.
As for Narduzzi knowing what he's doing, I see evidence every Saturday that contradicts that. he;s no smarter in year 6 than he was in year 1. His teams are heavily penalized, they execute poorly, they do stupid things--every week. he has not established anything close to an offensive identity in 6 years. How do you recruit to an offense when you can't even show the player you;re recruiting what his role will be and how he fits in? Imagine sitting in a TE's living room and explaining to him what he'll be doing in your offense? here son, look at some tape of how we use the TE. If Narduzzi had a 5 year plan for this program when he was hired, what the hell was it? Whatever it was, it didn't work.
I've seen all I need to see. He's another good coordinator who can't cut it as head coach. He's not very smart. he's not organized. He's indecisive. he doesn't manage his people well. He does not appear to have good control of his thoughts and emotions on the sideline. Do you really expect this to get any better going forward?
Next man up already.
Look, I am no advocate for Narduzzi. He has shown nothing lately and I am ready for him to go as well. That said, I wonder how each would do if they had the other guys job. I don't think Franklin is a very good coach either. He will be looking for work soon. His recruiting is falling off as of late, and that would be the only reason to keep him. He is every bit as bad as the Duzz come game day.
If Franklin took Vandy to two top 25 seasons. He would do better here at Pitt. Vandy is at the very bottom of the college football. Pitt is in the middle.
Duzz better coach. Franklin better CEO or figurehead of a program. Duzz prob more involved in everyday X’s and O’s on building defensive scheme and calling defense in game. Franklin prob mostly leaves it up to his assistants, focuses more on motivation and game management.
Not saying one is better than the other. I just think what Duzz is involved in as far as day to day and his pedigree fit the definition of a coach more than Franklin.
Not saying one is better than the other. I just think what Duzz is involved in as far as day to day and his pedigree fit the definition of a coach more than Franklin.
He benefited when GA and FL were both terrible and his teams still barely won 8 games. Ya, he is a terrible HC
You realize Vandy is in the SEC. If his Vandy teams played in the coastal. .......They probably would of won it.
Comparing the SEC to the coastal is like comparing high school football to the NFL
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Exactly. This is all you need to know. Everything else is subjective. Recruiting, which is a big part of being a college football coach, has to be weighted for their respective schools. Wins and losses... well, there are some moving variables there, also. But if both quit today, one would be hired tomorrow, and the other would never sniff another P5 job.
If Franklin came to Pitt, I believe within 5 years he'd have at least one 9-win season and maybe even a 10-win season. If Narduzzi went to Penn State, they'd probably fall back to on average an 8-win team.
Wow! You guys have a high opinion of the Milk-dud. He works for a University that is all-in on football. From Altoona to LockHaven and even a bigger area than that, the people are addicted to Ped St football. He has all the resources and a 109,000 seat stadium that is at least full of 90,000 cultists every Saturday regardless of the opponents pedigree. The Duzz has just the opposite.
He is 0-3 and lost a game because he was to negligent to inform his team not to score and just go into victory formation. I don't think the Duzz has stooped to that level of stupid yet. I know it seems like I am defending Duzz, but I think alot of you are motivated by your dislike for Coach Pat, and therefore prop the old Milk-dud up like he is something special.
That team is a complete mess right now. Additionally, while the Dud does recruit better, I would argue that his recruiting classes are always overated. He gets a couple special players a year and the rest of his 4 stars turn out to be average football players. Since losing Trace McSorely, the team has not been great. In fact, 4 Star Sean Clifford is a good example of an overated recruit.
I am tired of the Vanderbilt bullshit too. That was a little long ago for me. I prefer to focus on his record against ranked teams. I know some of you think P5 schools will fall all over him if the pedophiles let him go. I am sure he will find work but, I don't think you will see any big names looking to hire the Milk-dud to run the show.
He is 0-3 and lost a game because he was to negligent to inform his team not to score and just go into victory formation. I don't think the Duzz has stooped to that level of stupid yet. I know it seems like I am defending Duzz, but I think alot of you are motivated by your dislike for Coach Pat, and therefore prop the old Milk-dud up like he is something special.
That team is a complete mess right now. Additionally, while the Dud does recruit better, I would argue that his recruiting classes are always overated. He gets a couple special players a year and the rest of his 4 stars turn out to be average football players. Since losing Trace McSorely, the team has not been great. In fact, 4 Star Sean Clifford is a good example of an overated recruit.
I am tired of the Vanderbilt bullshit too. That was a little long ago for me. I prefer to focus on his record against ranked teams. I know some of you think P5 schools will fall all over him if the pedophiles let him go. I am sure he will find work but, I don't think you will see any big names looking to hire the Milk-dud to run the show.
So what counts then? You say his 0-3 record this year ought to count. Do we not count his three 11-win seasons? And his work at Penn State doesn't count, because they're "all in," but his work at Vanderbilt, which is very much NOT all in, doesn't count because it was a long time ago.
So basically... Eff the facts; Narduzzi is better because you said so.
I don't think Narduzzi is better at all. I just think you have a higher opinion of the Dud than he deserves. I just think you could focus a little more on the current state of both programs. To say one is much better than the other is crazy. The Dud is losing it up there and he will be held to a higher standard. The Duzz has lost it here as well, but Pitt won't blink because we have had almost 40 years of mediocrity and have learned to accept it.
It just isn't an apples to apples comparison. Franklin has had more success obviously. Joe Moorhead saved his job once. Nobody will save it this time.
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