Why is Pitt such a tough sell?

[Chairman Moe]

Maybe I’m naïve, but given our current situation, with at least two, maybe three starting spots up for grabs and lots of playing time available, why is it so difficult for Pitt BB to attract players? Either from the portal, JC transfers, or HS kids who haven’t/hadn’t committed? Is it really that we don’t pay the players (under the table or otherwise)? Is it our coach, coaching staff? The ACC? The facilities? The city? The campus/Oakland Zoo? The adult fans and season ticket holders? Our team colors? Mascot? And if none of those, then what?

Like I said, maybe I’m naïve ...

 

[343MelwoodAve]

We’ve been one of the worst teams in the sports the past 5 seasons

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Because we are going after big fish and big fish want $$$$$.

 

[Chairman Moe]

We’ve been one of the worst teams in the sports the past 5 seasons

I won’t argue that; but I’m not sure it totally answers the question. Are you then suggesting that a kid would rather sit on the bench for a winning program, knowing he’d get less than 5 minutes per game playing time, than having a starting role for Pitt?

 

[Eastern Eight]

Maybe I’m naïve, but given our current situation, with at least two, maybe three starting spots up for grabs and lots of playing time available, why is it so difficult for Pitt BB to attract players? Either from the portal, JC transfers, or HS kids who haven’t/hadn’t committed? Is it really that we don’t pay the players (under the table or otherwise)? Is it our coach, coaching staff? The ACC? The facilities? The city? The campus/Oakland Zoo? The adult fans and season ticket holders? Our team colors? Mascot? And if none of those, then what?

Like I said, maybe I’m naïve ...

I don't believe it has anything to do with Pittsburgh, the campus, the facilities, etc. In fact, Pitt has been kind of a hot school in general for several years now. Plenty of kids want to come here and thrive here. In addition, look at our relatively recent success in basketball and our new found success in Olympic sports and the narrative that there is something wrong with the school is BS. The only area where we have a built in handicap is with football and our stadium ( or lack thereof). Certainly momentum can hurt a program and we clearly have no momentum, but with the right moves by the right coach we can win and win as big as before. So if nothing else is wrong, then the blame clearly lands at the feet of the coach.

 

[343MelwoodAve]

I won’t argue that; but I’m not sure it totally answers the question. Are you then suggesting that a kid would rather sit on the bench for a winning program, knowing he’d get less than 5 minutes per game playing time, than having a starting role for Pitt?

Every kid thinks they’re good enough to prove themselves as the starter. Jaylen Blakes went to duke because they told him “you’ll be able to compete for a starting spot.” No one who’s good enough to get that offer thinks they’ll ride the pine for years. And now that you can transfer risk free why not take the risk to go to a duke or UNC or Kansas and prove you can hang and if you can’t you get a new team next year

 

[Chairman Moe]

Every kid thinks they’re good enough to prove themselves as the starter. Jaylen Blakes went to duke because they told him “you’ll be able to compete for a starting spot.” No one who’s good enough to get that offer thinks they’ll ride the pine for years. And now that you can transfer risk free why not take the risk to go to a duke or UNC or Kansas and prove you can hang and if you can’t you get a new team next year

Fair point; I guess putting it in a different light, why not sell the kid on being the big fish in the small pond?

FWIW, I don’t think I’m as naïve as my OP suggests, but clearly there is a disconnect. And maybe it is the coach and/or the staff. There are certainly a lot of players out there (as this year’s NCAA Portal showed) who could’ve come to Pitt knowing they would be a starter and didn’t.

 

[Protes]

I don't understand the Pittsburgh complex so many yins seem to have, lol. Pittsburgh is a good destination school. It's a nice city. There's professional football, hockey and baseball...well, football and hockey anyway. (I kid! I kid!). It's a much better place to attend school than a lot of other colleges and universities around the country. If the right coaches are in place, there's no reason our fb and bb programs can't succeed. That said, I do believe basketball is more of a challenge because of the conference we are in and the numerous quality programs we are up against.

 

[Parkview57]

I don’t think I’m as naïve as my OP suggests,

No, you raise a good question .

Because we are going after big fish and big fish want $$$$$.

Now if it were as simple as 9NC's proposes here, it is Coach Capel who is naive,which I find unlikely because if you hear him talk about the college game it seems very clear to me that HCJC is "connected" and knows college basketball inside and out. Would a sane person come here knowing it is all about money while knowing he has none to spend on players?

It is very puzzling.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

I don't understand the Pittsburgh complex so many yins seem to have, lol. Pittsburgh is a good destination school. It's a nice city. There's professional football, hockey and baseball...well, football and hockey anyway. (I kid! I kid!). It's a much better place to attend school than a lot of other colleges and universities around the country. If the right coaches are in place, there's no reason our fb and bb programs can't succeed. That said, I do believe basketball is more of a challenge because of the conference we are in and the numerous quality programs we are up against.

You could say the same thing about Boston - BC and Atlanta - GT. The three of us are very similar.

 

[bobfree]

We’ve been one of the worst teams in the sports the past 5 seasons

Baylor had a kid murder another player.

Virginia tech? Rutgers? Auburn?

A good coach matters. We just dont have one. I wish he was because i really like him as a person.

The only fix is changes to his staff.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

The kind of players you need to win in the ACC can play anywhere , so an offer from a second tier ACC team isn’t the cats meow .

PT , if your special PT isn’t an issue .

What goes on behind the scenes who knows , whether it’s payments , girls , cars , requiring you to actually attend class , living accommodations , but there’s something not happening at Pitt . Jamie struggled as did KS in getting the players they wanted and now JC is too . Coincidence , I doubt it . ( the same can be said for Fb too )

 

[9nationalchampionships]

No, you raise a good question .



Now if it were as simple as 9NC's proposes here, it is Coach Capel who is naive,which I find unlikely because if you hear him talk about the college game it seems very clear to me that HCJC is "connected" and knows college basketball inside and out. Would a sane person come here knowing it is all about money while knowing he has none to spend on players?

It is very puzzling.

I want to believe this but I can't!

 

[Chescat]

I don't believe Pitt is the
problem. The facilities are
fine for Bball. The fan base
has proven to be rabid if
there's a good product on the
floor. The city atmosphere
appeals to many Bball players
since many come from urban
backgrounds. The ACC is as
good as it gets. Those are all
pluses IMO. Educationally
Pitt isn't Harvard, but it's a
damn fine university (and I'm
not a Pitt grad, and I don't
live in Western PA.)

BTW, Coaches Fisher, Bell,
Vidovich, and Gavin are up
against top coaches in their
fields and are able to recruit
to the point that they are not
only winning, but have ranked
teams. Pitt as a university is
not holding them back. If they
left Pitt, they IMO would be
successful at their next school
as well.

Bottom Line...it's THE COACH.
Calipari would come here and
win, so would Buzz Williams, or
many other successful coaches.
With that said, I'm not burying
Capel. I'm cautiously optimistic
he's gonna somehow get us on
the right track. I'm realistic, but
I also like being optimistic.

 

[NTOP]

Maybe I’m naïve, but given our current situation, with at least two, maybe three starting spots up for grabs and lots of playing time available, why is it so difficult for Pitt BB to attract players? Either from the portal, JC transfers, or HS kids who haven’t/hadn’t committed? Is it really that we don’t pay the players (under the table or otherwise)? Is it our coach, coaching staff? The ACC? The facilities? The city? The campus/Oakland Zoo? The adult fans and season ticket holders? Our team colors? Mascot? And if none of those, then what?

Like I said, maybe I’m naïve ...

Dippin Dots

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

No excuses. Not one. Losing Reid to LSU and a bag is fine. Losing kids to UNC is fine. But we should be able to land kids in the 75-150 range.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I don't believe Pitt is the
problem. The facilities are
fine for Bball. The fan base
has proven to be rabid if
there's a good product on the
floor. The city atmosphere
appeals to many Bball players
since many come from urban
backgrounds. The ACC is as
good as it gets. Those are all
pluses IMO. Educationally
Pitt isn't Harvard, but it's a
damn fine university (and I'm
not a Pitt grad, and I don't
live in Western PA.)

BTW, Coaches Fisher, Bell,
Vidovich, and Gavin are up
against top coaches in their
fields and are able to recruit
to the point that they are not
only winning, but have ranked
teams. Pitt as a university is
not holding them back. If they
left Pitt, they IMO would be
successful at their next school
as well.

Bottom Line...it's THE COACH.
Calipari would come here and
win, so would Buzz Williams, or
many other successful coaches.
With that said, I'm not burying
Capel. I'm cautiously optimistic
he's gonna somehow get us on
the right track. I'm realistic, but
I also like being optimistic.

Bb players that are capable of playing ACC level ball and attend Harvard you could count on one hand . These kids are ballers and most don’t care about their education. Just about every one of them would jump at the opportunity to play pro ball as opposed to studying English lit and transfer to get more pt or play in a better bb program .

 

[Chairman Moe]

Dippin Dots

That we have them, or not??!

 

[Chescat]

Bb players that are capable of playing ACC level ball and attend Harvard you could count on one hand . These kids are ballers and most don’t care about their education. Just about every one of them would jump at the opportunity to play pro ball as opposed to studying English lit and transfer to get more pt or play in a better bb program .

Wasn't suggesting Bballers were
looking for a "Harvard" education.
The point was that as a university
Pitt has many things going for it,
and that it wasn't Pitt that was the
problem as the OP was originally
questioning.

 

[Pittisit4me]

Bb players that are capable of playing ACC level ball and attend Harvard you could count on one hand . These kids are ballers and most don’t care about their education. Just about every one of them would jump at the opportunity to play pro ball as opposed to studying English lit and transfer to get more pt or play in a better bb program .
[/QUOTE]
Agree. Most of them come from poor backgrounds and are easily swayed by programs who wave bags of cash and other benefits at them. If you want big time kids you have to play the game. I am not sure if it is on Capel or the University is holding him back. If he is constrained, then he should be concentrating on kids ranked between 75-200. If he is playing the game, then he is just a bad player.

 

[Dointhatrag]

A lot of kids want the college atmosphere and college town feel even those coming from urban backgrounds. Pitt is in the vast minority being a D1 city school.

 

[WVUinColumbus]

Pittsburgh is a small city. It’s not Atlanta, New Orleans, Houston, Dallas, New York, DC or LA.....cities that could potentially draw a black student.

The fact that it is in a small city isn’t a draw. It’s not a “net negative” either. It’s just not much of a factor. New York kids who went there in the 80s and 90s probably thought it was really mellow and liked the relative small town vibe. They definitely didn’t go there because it “felt like home” because of a few tall buildings a mile or two away. There aren’t sections of Pittsburgh that would be considered a “draw” like Buckhead, tons of NYC spots, and many areas of Houston and NOLA.

The location of a college/university has very little to do with success or “ability to draw an athlete”.

 

[Chescat]

The location of a college/university has very little to do with success or “ability to draw an athlete”.

WVU in Columbus, good point.
Nowhere is THAT more true
than right there at WVU.
Huggy sure as hell isn't
letting location hold him
back from getting very good
players.

 

[joeydavid]

Maybe I’m naïve, but given our current situation, with at least two, maybe three starting spots up for grabs and lots of playing time available, why is it so difficult for Pitt BB to attract players? Either from the portal, JC transfers, or HS kids who haven’t/hadn’t committed? Is it really that we don’t pay the players (under the table or otherwise)? Is it our coach, coaching staff? The ACC? The facilities? The city? The campus/Oakland Zoo? The adult fans and season ticket holders? Our team colors? Mascot? And if none of those, then what?

Like I said, maybe I’m naïve ...

Let's put 2020-2021 college basketball into some perspective.

 

[WVUinColumbus]

WVU in Columbus, good point.
Nowhere is THAT more true
than right there at WVU.
Huggy sure as hell isn't
letting location hold him
back from getting very good
players.

WVU and Pitt couldn’t be more different in terms of building a basketball roster and what matters in terms of searching for success. One way isn’t superior. It’s simply different. Pitt chose to hire a HC who can get talented players. We happen to have a coach who succeeds on the court with Xs and Os. That won’t change when Huggs leaves. That’ll be the focus/mission from the next coach as well. It’s about building a brand/identity and hopefully being successful in the long term......along with capable leadership. Nothing guarantees success. However, having sound processes and “ways of going about your business” maximize the potential for prosperity.

 

[hoclaw]

Lets be honest. Pittsburgh has greater entertaiment & cultural offerings than Syracuse, Blacksburg, Greenville,
Wake Forest, & Tallahassee, for certain. The level of comfort & academic support given to our student athletes is superior to almost all D1 Universities.

 

[Chescat]

WVU and Pitt couldn’t be more different in terms of building a basketball roster and what matters in terms of searching for success. One way isn’t superior. It’s simply different. Pitt chose to hire a HC who can get talented players.

Pitt did what? Measuring the
the results, WVU hired a coach
who wins!
Forget the location, the cultural
and educational advantages, it
comes down to one thing mainly.
That one thing is THE COACH.
If Capel goes to WVU, does he
suddenly start winning? Nope.
Conversely, if Huggy comes to
Pitt, does he win? You bet he does.

 

[WVUinColumbus]

Pitt did what? Measuring the
the results, WVU hired a coach
who wins!
Forget the location, the cultural
and educational advantages, it
comes down to one thing mainly.
That one thing is THE COACH.
IF Capel goes to WVU, does he
suddenly start winning? Nope.
Conversely, if Huggy comes to
Pitt, does he win? You bet he does.

He has a history of getting talented players. Pitt fans were thrilled when he was hired. Maybe he isn’t able to draw them to Pitt for whatever reason.

It certainly wasn’t a foolish idea to hire a coach with ACC ties who had a history of building a squad with talented players.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Let's put 2020-2021 college basketball into some perspective.

View embedded media

That's 9 transfers total, and then he releases this statement:

“Given the standards and expectation of Georgia basketball, we wholeheartedly agree with K.D.’s decision to seek a new program,” Crean said. “We certainly wish him the best and really hopes he finds success in all areas.”

 

[Chescat]

He has a history of getting talented players. Pitt fans were thrilled when he was hired. Maybe he isn’t able to draw them to Pitt for whatever reason.

It certainly wasn’t a foolish idea to hire a coach with ACC ties who had a history of building a squad with talented players.

Coach K built that "squad
with talented players." Capel
was an assistant at the right
place at the right time.
Once again...WVU hired a
coach who wins. Pitt did
no such thing. Again....it's
THE COACH.

 

[tjb]

Human beings are highly attuned to status and social hierarchies.

Kids keenly know what the score is: Duke > UVA > Pitt. Etc.

The schools that compete without the cachet of the blue bloods do so by successfully identifying over achievers or players that fit their systems. There’s luck in that, too - it’s hard to predict who can make the jump successfully from high school.

The transfer market will change the dynamic even more. We’ll see more of a ’Moneyball’ approach to assembling teams, as kids without the measurables or “the look“ show themselves to be good college basketball players at lower levels and transfer up. Excelling at that game seems like it will be less risky for teams that have to reach than trying to identify high schoolers who will overachieve (Brandon Knights and Chevy Troutmans, as examples).

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Let's put 2020-2021 college basketball into some perspective.

Remy Martin of Arizona State, who has put his name in the NBA draft but has not signed with an agent, put his name in the portal this past weekend. That makes him the 9th Arizona State player to enter the portal since the end of the season.

 

[jimmoyer]

Pitt fans have to stop the excuse making and whining and get honest. Howland and Dixon built a great program and today the facility and Campus are better than ever. Kids commit to play for Coaching primarily and if Capel is the real deal, he has to prove it. I believe a quality coach could have won far more games with the talent we had last year. We have to give this staff a chance, but we have to stop blaming intangibles and look clearly at the very highly paid staff and expect them to do what they were hired for. Let’s all hope they can get it together and make us all proud

 

[Chescat]

Exactly right! I've been
saying that throughout
this thread, it's THE COACH.
Players want to win, and
winning coaches get the
best players. Capel doesn't
have much wiggle room at
this time, but hopefully he
can still put together a
decent team if he can get
a big, better yet two bigs.
He knows it, his assistants
know it. Now I hope we see
see him do it.

 

[PittMiamiRivalry]

We’ve been one of the worst teams in the sports the past 5 seasons

Because it's snowing in Pittsburgh in May.

 

[NTOP]

That we have them, or not??!

Yes

 

[pitt-girl]

Remy Martin of Arizona State, who has put his name in the NBA draft but has not signed with an agent, put his name in the portal this past weekend. That makes him the 9th Arizona State player to enter the portal since the end of the season.

College basketball is honestly a mess right now.

 

[gary2]

I don't believe Pitt is the
problem. The facilities are
fine for Bball. The fan base
has proven to be rabid if
there's a good product on the
floor. The city atmosphere
appeals to many Bball players
since many come from urban
backgrounds. The ACC is as
good as it gets. Those are all
pluses IMO. Educationally
Pitt isn't Harvard, but it's a
damn fine university (and I'm
not a Pitt grad, and I don't
live in Western PA.)

BTW, Coaches Fisher, Bell,
Vidovich, and Gavin are up
against top coaches in their
fields and are able to recruit
to the point that they are not
only winning, but have ranked
teams. Pitt as a university is
not holding them back. If they
left Pitt, they IMO would be
successful at their next school
as well.

Bottom Line...it's THE COACH.
Calipari would come here and
win, so would Buzz Williams, or
many other successful coaches.
With that said, I'm not burying
Capel. I'm cautiously optimistic
he's gonna somehow get us on
the right track. I'm realistic, but
I also like being optimistic.

Nailed it.

 

[gary2]

That's 9 transfers total, and then he releases this statement:

“Given the standards and expectation of Georgia basketball, we wholeheartedly agree with K.D.’s decision to seek a new program,” Crean said. “We certainly wish him the best and really hopes he finds success in all areas.”

I like Crean. He will be successful at Georgia before Capel at Pitt.

Why? Because he can coach.

 

[Chescat]

WVU and Pitt couldn’t be more different in terms of building a basketball roster and what matters in terms of searching for success. One way isn’t superior. It’s simply different. Pitt chose to hire a HC who can get talented players. We happen to have a coach who succeeds on the court with Xs and Os. That won’t change when Huggs leaves.

Sorry to disagree, but you
(WVU) have a coach who
succeeds in getting very
good to great players. At
this level the head coaches
all know those X's and O's
you mentioned. The ones
who win get the best players
and know what to do with
them. Huggy won BEFORE he came
to WVU. He's 900-381. That
is a 70% winning record. He's
been to the sweet 16, elite 8,
and the final 4.
Results matter.