Why isn’t CFB more popular in the northeast?

[HailToPitt725]

I asked this question on the national board and I’ll ask it here,

The NE is by far the weakest region in the country when it comes to football, both in terms of success and popularity, but it wasn’t always this way. Pitt, Syracuse, and Boston College used to be powers but have struggled for years. Programs like Fordham, Carnegie Tech (now Carnegie Mellon), and Duquesne were all prominent programs and made major bowls in the 30s and 40s. Nowadays, Penn State is the only one left standing.

So, what happened to northeast college football? Is it a lack of interest in college sports in relation to major cities and professional sports? Is it the dynamic of northeast universities (smaller, private) that cause their thoughts on football and athletics to be so much different than the rest of the country?

A few thoughts,
- Is it that there isn’t a culture of rooting for the local/state P5/G5 school in addition to your FCS/D2/D3 alma mater because there are rivalries that transcend into professional sports, such as hockey?
- Since, IIRC, the northeast has the largest Catholic base in the country, does it lose fans to Catholics who decide to root for Notre Dame instead of the local P5/G5 team?

What say you?

 

[pitt90seven]

go read about boxing. same thing.

 

[cease10]

I blame it on the failure of the NE schools to create a solid conference for football.

The Big East conference was created for basketball, but it was doomed for failure as a football conference from the start. The football conference was only created for convenience. The non-football playing schools were making decisions only in their own best interest and not football's.

Paterno was right when he was trying to create an Eastern conference. Northeast football would be a lot stronger if that league was started.

 

[chirurgo]

It’s more an issue of the high density of pro sports teams in the northeast. Tough for college programs to compete with pro teams for fans, especially as ticket prices get higher and higher.

if you look at most successful CFB programs they are not in or near a major pro football city.

 

[BillyWestFan]

Imo, pro sports teams density in the NE. Case in point, my brother now lives in Knoxville. Seems to me the locals have zero interest in the Titans. In fact I went into a sports apparel store there and it was mostly a sea of orange except from what I could see a little blue section over in one corner. I went to see assuming it was the Titans' section...nope, East Tennessee State.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Imo, pro sports teams density in the NE. Case in point, my brother now lives in Knoxville. Seems to me the locals have zero interest in the Titans. In fact I went into a sports apparel store there and it was mostly a sea of orange except from what I could see a little blue section over in one corner. I went to see assuming it was the Titans' section...nope, East Tennessee State.

It's similar here in Atlanta. Everyone primarily roots for their college football team first (lots of UGA, Clemson, Alabama, FSU, etc. fans) and the pro sports teams are secondary. Except the Braves are really the only baseball team of consequence since college baseball isn't that popular and the Braves have a uniquely large footprint that covers almost the entire Southeast.

 

[9nationalchampionships]

Let’s face it, the north east is the highest density of population with many things to do and many more transient people.

 

[hoclaw]

The economic impact of Power 5 college football in small southern towns, and midwestern towns is enormous. South Bend, Indiana (& the surrounding region); Tuscaloosa Ala.; & many other small towns receive economic revenue in excess of $1 billion, for 6 or 7 Saturdays each fall. As prior posters have noted, there are no NFL teams,
and indeed in many of these other areas few other large entertainment venues that compete with CFB.

 

[ameoba defense]

You don't have the big state schools playing at a high level. You might notice that the state schools are weak where the Ivys are. The Ivys were big time football in the east. When they walked away, it left a void. Imagine how the midwest would look if the Big 10 had walked away from big time football in 1940. Keep in mind that the New England state schools never really tried to play big time football until UConn made an effort recently. Outside of New England, there are only 3 NE states. Rutgers wasn't really trying until the 70s, Princeton was the NJ powerhouse. Once the Ivys walked away, and the small schools dropped out, you really only had a handful of schools left.

 

[pitt90seven]

Let’s face it, the north east is the highest density of population with many things to do and many more transient people.

yeah this isn't difficult. those states don't identify with a large state school as their primary source of pride in their lives. you have to get to penn state for that. the rest of the northeast doesn't care. the west coast is headed down the same path. high school football participation is going the way of the dodo in PA. football will probably be a regional sport in 20 years.

You don't have the big state schools playing at a high level. You might notice that the state schools are weak where the Ivys are. The Ivys were big time football in the east. When they walked away, it left a void. Imagine how the midwest would look if the Big 10 had walked away from big time football in 1940.

u of chicago de-emphasized football. there were plenty of other schools that began to fill the void back then but not many took hold. remember when carnegie, w&j, fordham, etc etc had successful programs? the people in NYC, philly, etc didn't feel the need to have a successful college football team.

 

[Las Panteras]

I blame it on the failure of the NE schools to create a solid conference for football.

The Big East conference was created for basketball, but it was doomed for failure as a football conference from the start. The football conference was only created for convenience. The non-football playing schools were making decisions only in their own best interest and not football's.

Paterno was right when he was trying to create an Eastern conference. Northeast football would be a lot stronger if that league was started.

An Eastern football conference would have solved nothing. Payerno was wrong back then and was only looking out for PSU.

If PSU was playing Syracuse, and Pitt was at say BC,

And Notre Dame was hosting Michigan State, millions of eyeballs in the NE are watching ND.

The appeal of Notre Dame, along with pro football and millions of TV sets would result in exactly what the Big East football league was......the worst of the top leagues which could not recruit enough 4 and 5 stars.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I asked this question on the national board and I’ll ask it here,

The NE is by far the weakest region in the country when it comes to football, both in terms of success and popularity, but it wasn’t always this way. Pitt, Syracuse, and Boston College used to be powers but have struggled for years. Programs like Fordham, Carnegie Tech (now Carnegie Mellon), and Duquesne were all prominent programs and made major bowls in the 30s and 40s. Nowadays, Penn State is the only one left standing.

So, what happened to northeast college football? Is it a lack of interest in college sports in relation to major cities and professional sports? Is it the dynamic of northeast universities (smaller, private) that cause their thoughts on football and athletics to be so much different than the rest of the country?

A few thoughts,
- Is it that there isn’t a culture of rooting for the local/state P5/G5 school in addition to your FCS/D2/D3 alma mater because there are rivalries that transcend into professional sports, such as hockey?
- Since, IIRC, the northeast has the largest Catholic base in the country, does it lose fans to Catholics who decide to root for Notre Dame instead of the local P5/G5 team?

What say you?

Easy answer.

New England Patriots. NY Football Giants. NY Jets. Philadelphia Eagles. Buffalo Bills. Pittsburgh Steelers. Boston Red Sox. NY Yankees. NY Mets. Philadelphia Phillies. Picksburgh Pirates. Bruins Celtics. Knicks Nets Rangers Islanders Devils. Flyers. Sabres. Pens.

All of these are well established pro franchises, some who have been around 100 years. In New England, there is no real large state school, including NY to anchor anything. NJ's "state" school has been horrible forever.

I mean, that's it. Mostly the NFL. They usurp the coverage from the college football teams and the big cities are melting pots of college grads from all over the place, unlike places in the south and midwest.

 

[wbrpanther]

I asked this question on the national board and I’ll ask it here,

The NE is by far the weakest region in the country when it comes to football, both in terms of success and popularity, but it wasn’t always this way. Pitt, Syracuse, and Boston College used to be powers but have struggled for years. Programs like Fordham, Carnegie Tech (now Carnegie Mellon), and Duquesne were all prominent programs and made major bowls in the 30s and 40s. Nowadays, Penn State is the only one left standing.

So, what happened to northeast college football? Is it a lack of interest in college sports in relation to major cities and professional sports? Is it the dynamic of northeast universities (smaller, private) that cause their thoughts on football and athletics to be so much different than the rest of the country?

A few thoughts,
- Is it that there isn’t a culture of rooting for the local/state P5/G5 school in addition to your FCS/D2/D3 alma mater because there are rivalries that transcend into professional sports, such as hockey?
- Since, IIRC, the northeast has the largest Catholic base in the country, does it lose fans to Catholics who decide to root for Notre Dame instead of the local P5/G5 team?

What say you?

Patriots
Giants
Jets
Eagles
Redskins
Ravens
Steelers
Bills

 

[topdecktiger]

One of the problems is that in the formative years of college football, most of the top teams up north were Ivy League schools. By the 50s/60s, the Ivy League schools de-emphasized football, and that took a big chuck of potential fans out of the equation.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

Yep, definitely the density of big cities with pro sports teams. No mystery here. College football is always a tough sell in the big cities. Miami and USC have been exceptions (for the most part... I know they've underwhelmed recently), but they both struggle with attendance... it's just hard to not be competitive in those recruiting markets. And obviously schools like Texas and Ohio State, while in relatively large cities, don't have an NFL team to compete with.

 

[MarshallGoldberg]

I think the west coast is somewhat similar to the northeast as well. And even within the south, my experience is the interest in college sports over pro sports tends to be stronger in white people than black people. Atlanta Falcons and Atlanta Hawks games have disproportionately black fans in the crowd compared to UGA and Georgia Tech. So maybe the "exception" is more in certain southern and midwestern states with giant state schools -- because pro sports are more popular overall.

 

[thebadby2]

I asked this question on the national board and I’ll ask it here,

The NE is by far the weakest region in the country when it comes to football, both in terms of success and popularity, but it wasn’t always this way. Pitt, Syracuse, and Boston College used to be powers but have struggled for years. Programs like Fordham, Carnegie Tech (now Carnegie Mellon), and Duquesne were all prominent programs and made major bowls in the 30s and 40s. Nowadays, Penn State is the only one left standing.

So, what happened to northeast college football? Is it a lack of interest in college sports in relation to major cities and professional sports? Is it the dynamic of northeast universities (smaller, private) that cause their thoughts on football and athletics to be so much different than the rest of the country?

A few thoughts,
- Is it that there isn’t a culture of rooting for the local/state P5/G5 school in addition to your FCS/D2/D3 alma mater because there are rivalries that transcend into professional sports, such as hockey?
- Since, IIRC, the northeast has the largest Catholic base in the country, does it lose fans to Catholics who decide to root for Notre Dame instead of the local P5/G5 team?

What say you?

Is it the dynamic of northeast universities (smaller, private) that cause their thoughts on football and athletics to be so much different than the rest of the country?

It's really this simple IMO. Far more so than the presence of successful pro teams that detract from the successful local college football teams. There are tons of examples of states with huge urban populations that also support one or two big time college football programs that everyone in the state supports. There aren't any huge state schools with 80k-100k seat stadiums, huge local alum populations, and "subway fans" that align themselves with the local big schools' football teams in the NE. PSU is as close as it gets to NE, and it's a B10 team. ND as well for the reasons you state, but it's in the heart of the Midwest.

My parents both grew up in Pittsburgh in the Catholic school system. My dad, a Pitt grad, always hated ND because the nuns at his school made the students pray for a ND victory every Friday, and despite being Irish Catholic, he grew up a hometown Pitt fan. They did the same at my mom's all-girls school.

 

[thebadby2]

It’s more an issue of the high density of pro sports teams in the northeast. Tough for college programs to compete with pro teams for fans, especially as ticket prices get higher and higher.

if you look at most successful CFB programs they are not in or near a major pro football city.

This may be a dynamic in Pittsburgh, but it is far from it in most other major pro sports markets. think about it--in Michigan, the two big P5 schools are each an hour from Detroit. Detroit, albeit in a lull right now, is a rabid pro sports town. The Lions have sold out for decades despite sucking every year. But everyone in the state, and the cities and suburbs, is either a Michigan or Michigan State fan, and they live and die with their chosen college teams every Saturday. Same with Georgia and UGA, Ohio and OSU, Wisconsin and UW, Florida and FSU, UF and Miami, N. Carolina with UNC and NCSU, Texas with UT and A&M, Louisiana with LSU, Washington with UW, etc. etc. etc. There is a lot of long-term branding that goes on with those types of programs as well.

Of course, a tradition of past success and at least some present success is necessary for this dynamic to hold true. For example, Indiana is a huge state school with a huge local alum base, but nobody gives a $hit about IU or Purdue football--they are all Colts fans. This is because IU has never had a tradition of football success.

 

[21Guns.]

I blame it on the failure of the NE schools to create a solid conference for football.

The Big East conference was created for basketball, but it was doomed for failure as a football conference from the start. The football conference was only created for convenience. The non-football playing schools were making decisions only in their own best interest and not football's.

Paterno was right when he was trying to create an Eastern conference. Northeast football would be a lot stronger if that league was started.

Paterno was right...but he was too greedy. He was only looking out for Penn State. I don't blame the other schools for not caving in to his demands. He wanted the basketball revenue shared but keep all the football money. I do think northeast football would be stronger if they had formed all sports conference.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

You don't have the big state schools playing at a high level. You might notice that the state schools are weak where the Ivys are. The Ivys were big time football in the east. When they walked away, it left a void. Imagine how the midwest would look if the Big 10 had walked away from big time football in 1940. Keep in mind that the New England state schools never really tried to play big time football until UConn made an effort recently. Outside of New England, there are only 3 NE states. Rutgers wasn't really trying until the 70s, Princeton was the NJ powerhouse. Once the Ivys walked away, and the small schools dropped out, you really only had a handful of schools left.

FWIW, the University of Chicago, a founding member of the Big 10, dropped FB in 1939. This was the only big time FB program in the midwest that went totally away from it. Note: They had no FB at all 1939-1969) and now play Division 3. At least the Ivy's only de-emphasized FB.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

This may be a dynamic in Pittsburgh, but it is far from it in most other major pro sports markets. think about it--in Michigan, the two big P5 schools are each an hour from Detroit. Detroit, albeit in a lull right now, is a rabid pro sports town. The Lions have sold out for decades despite sucking every year. But everyone in the state, and the cities and suburbs, is either a Michigan or Michigan State fan, and they live and die with their chosen college teams every Saturday. Same with Georgia and UGA, Ohio and OSU, Wisconsin and UW, Florida and FSU, UF and Miami, N. Carolina with UNC and NCSU, Texas with UT and A&M, Louisiana with LSU, Washington with UW, etc. etc. etc. There is a lot of long-term branding that goes on with those types of programs as well.

Of course, a tradition of past success and at least some present success is necessary for this dynamic to hold true. For example, Indiana is a huge state school with a huge local alum base, but nobody gives a $hit about IU or Purdue football--they are all Colts fans. This is because IU has never had a tradition of football success.

Well. Knowing Detroit, Detroit has won what, one playoff game in my lifetime (and I am over 50). Never been to an NFC Champ game let alone a Super Bowl. While Michigan and Michigan State has been pretty strong over the years.

Same with Ohio. Bengals and Browns vs tOSU?

Down in the south, College Football was much more established and entrenched in the region before the NFL. Plus the southern cities are much more transient, I have been to Steelers games in Atlanta and Charlotte where Steeler fans dwarfed the local teams. That is true of the NY teams or Philly or Chicago, etc...

Green Bay and Wisconsin is interesting, because it isn't like the most populous state, but Green Bay has been one of the flagship's of the NFL since its inception.

Chicago? Northwestern struggles as much, if not more, than we do in a city that is 5 times bigger than Pittsburgh because of the Bears and a strong allegiance to Notre Dame.

I always say, you look on an electoral map, and where it is red, mostly college football rules, where it is blue, NFL rules. Not totally, but generally it is true.

 

[ameoba defense]

Cleveland is as pro crazy as any city in the country, yet Ohio St. is massively popular there. What some of you don't realize is that as recently as the 1940s, the University of Pennsylvania had a massive fan base in Philly, regularly leading the nation in attendance. Penn had a national network broadcast in the early 50s, which caused them to butt heads with both the NCAA, and the Ivys. They eventually came to the conclusion that being an Ivy was more valuable than being a football power. In the Midwest, every single state has either a _____State U, or a University of ______ named after the state, that plays big time football. In the east, you had half the state schools playing in the Yankee Conference. There is no New York State in Albany to excite the population. Penn State is the only major state school named after it's state that is really playing big time football. The others are all regional like Pitt, giving them limited appeal outside of their local area. As has been stated, when the Ivys pulled back, and the Fordham's stopped playing, it left a huge gap in the region.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Cleveland is as pro crazy as any city in the country, yet Ohio St. is massively popular there. What some of you don't realize is that as recently as the 1940s, the University of Pennsylvania had a massive fan base in Philly, regularly leading the nation in attendance. Penn had a national network broadcast in the early 50s, which caused them to butt heads with both the NCAA, and the Ivys. They eventually came to the conclusion that being an Ivy was more valuable than being a football power. In the Midwest, every single state has either a _____State U, or a University of ______ named after the state, that plays big time football. In the east, you had half the state schools playing in the Yankee Conference. There is no New York State in Albany to excite the population. Penn State is the only major state school named after it's state that is really playing big time football. The others are all regional like Pitt, giving them limited appeal outside of their local area. As has been stated, when the Ivys pulled back, and the Fordham's stopped playing, it left a huge gap in the region.

Ohio State's appeal is statewide. But let's face it, in my lifetime, and that spans over 50 years, the Browns have given their city even less to celebrate than the Pirates have Pittsburgh. Alot less. So naturally with Ohio State's success it does make a difference.

Contrast that with Chicago. Illinois is pretty much met with a "meh" and shrug of shoulders there because they have been mediocre.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Paterno was right...but he was too greedy. He was only looking out for Penn State. I don't blame the other schools for not caving in to his demands. He wanted the basketball revenue shared but keep all the football money. I do think northeast football would be stronger if they had formed all sports conference.

In your opinion, do you think a northeastern-centric conference would have caused other schools in the region to take football more seriously and invest in it, or would it still be the haves and the have-nots? I wish we had a conference like that but that’s the only way I could see Paterno’s idea truly changing football in the northeast.

 

[Joe Magarac]

Paterno was right...but he was too greedy. He was only looking out for Penn State. I don't blame the other schools for not caving in to his demands. He wanted the basketball revenue shared but keep all the football money. I do think northeast football would be stronger if they had formed all sports conference.

Paterno would have bolted to the fat ten the minute the invitation was printed. Don’t think for a minute that the cesspool would have stayed in his eastern conference.

 

[Ski11585]

Because as the OP noted, most of the teams suck. No one wants to root for losers. Especially in the NE where @recruitsreadtheseboards there are a billion pro teams.

Easy answer.

New England Patriots. NY Football Giants. NY Jets. Philadelphia Eagles. Buffalo Bills. Pittsburgh Steelers. Boston Red Sox. NY Yankees. NY Mets. Philadelphia Phillies. Picksburgh Pirates. Bruins Celtics. Knicks Nets Rangers Islanders Devils. Flyers. Sabres. Pens.

All of these are well established pro franchises, some who have been around 100 years. In New England, there is no real large state school, including NY to anchor anything. NJ's "state" school has been horrible forever.

I mean, that's it. Mostly the NFL. They usurp the coverage from the college football teams and the big cities are melting pots of college grads from all over the place, unlike places in the south and midwest.

Off the top of my head, without checking wikipedia, that's... 20 championships in that list since 2000? About 20. That's a staggering number when you think about it.

 

[thebadby2]

Well. Knowing Detroit, Detroit has won what, one playoff game in my lifetime (and I am over 50). Never been to an NFC Champ game let alone a Super Bowl. While Michigan and Michigan State has been pretty strong over the years.

Same with Ohio. Bengals and Browns vs tOSU?

Down in the south, College Football was much more established and entrenched in the region before the NFL. Plus the southern cities are much more transient, I have been to Steelers games in Atlanta and Charlotte where Steeler fans dwarfed the local teams. That is true of the NY teams or Philly or Chicago, etc...

Green Bay and Wisconsin is interesting, because it isn't like the most populous state, but Green Bay has been one of the flagship's of the NFL since its inception.

Chicago? Northwestern struggles as much, if not more, than we do in a city that is 5 times bigger than Pittsburgh because of the Bears and a strong allegiance to Notre Dame.

I always say, you look on an electoral map, and where it is red, mostly college football rules, where it is blue, NFL rules. Not totally, but generally it is true.

Point being, as a lifelong resident of metro Detroit, I can tell you this is a rabid sports town full of diehard fans. The Wings, Tigers and Pistons, while down the past few years, have all had massive success in the modern era. And the Liedowns, as bad as they have been my whole life, still have probably the most rabid and loyal pro fanbase here of them all, averaging about 95% attendance capacity the past 10 years.

Yet, pro sports don't put a dent in the attendance and interest in Michigan and MSU football, and to a lesser extent basketball. Nearly every native of this state is either a Michigan or MSU fan and they are rabid about it. There are tons of in-state alums of both schools, and both schools are huge. Michigan is about 40 minutes from downtown Detroit and MSU is about an hour away. Interest in U of M and MSU football and sports is not negatively impacted in any way by the pro market here.

this is not the only state like that. Ohio is the same. Texas is the same. Wisconsin is the same--the Packers are beloved by everyone there and in the fall the whole state comes together for the Badgers on Saturday and the Pack on Sunday.

Northwestern is not comparable as it is essentially a low-enrollment Ivy league school in an extremely affluent and highly educated suburb of Chicago with a very small local alum base and a football team that has barely been competitive for most of the past 50 years. Bears fans are a totally different socioeconomic and cultural crowd than the few NW alums in Illinois and Chicago.

My niece is a recent NW grad and was in a big sorority there. Very few NW students are Illinois natives and even fewer stay in Illinois after graduation. Her boyfriend was also a NW football player. That wasn't even enough to get her and her sorority sisters to more than 2 home games a year. They tailgated EVERY home game, but only went to 1 or 2 a year.

 

[jtownknowitall]

In your opinion, do you think a northeastern-centric conference would have caused other schools in the region to take football more seriously and invest in it, or would it still be the haves and the have-nots? I wish we had a conference like that but that’s the only way I could see Paterno’s idea truly changing football in the northeast.

No. My guess is Paterno's Eastern Conference would have merged with the ACC.

 

[ameoba defense]

Because as the OP noted, most of the teams suck. No one wants to root for losers. Especially in the NE where @recruitsreadtheseboards there are a billion pro teams.



Off the top of my head, without checking wikipedia, that's... 20 championships in that list since 2000? About 20. That's a staggering number when you think about it.

When you're not in the mix for championships, and not playing teams that are either, interest drops. If Rutgers was a powerhouse, with a couple of National Championships over the last 20-25 years, you can bet the interest in NJ would be substantially higher. It's easy to root for Ohio St., just like it's easy to root for the Steelers. Look at the following NE state schools:
UMass
UConn
Vermont
Maine
Rhode Island
Not a football power among them, not even a has been. Now, imagine a world where all of those teams were big time in football. Add in PSU, Pitt, WVU, Cuse, Rutgers, Temple, and BC, give it 120 years of history, with the league putting 4-5 teams in the rankings every year. You think it might be popular? Maybe not on a B10, or SEC level, but certainly comparable to the ACC, or Pac12. Unfortunately, those first 5 schools amount to nothing, Rutgers, and Temple are lightweights, BC is still living off of Flutie, and Pitt and Cuse are still living off the Dorsett/ Marino, and McNabb eras. Not a whole lot to excite the fans.

 

[Panther Holla]

Is it the dynamic of northeast universities (smaller, private) that cause their thoughts on football and athletics to be so much different than the rest of the country?

It's really this simple IMO. Far more so than the presence of successful pro teams that detract from the successful local college football teams. There are tons of examples of states with huge urban populations that also support one or two big time college football programs that everyone in the state supports. There aren't any huge state schools with 80k-100k seat stadiums, huge local alum populations, and "subway fans" that align themselves with the local big schools' football teams in the NE. PSU is as close as it gets to NE, and it's a B10 team. ND as well for the reasons you state, but it's in the heart of the Midwest.

My parents both grew up in Pittsburgh in the Catholic school system. My dad, a Pitt grad, always hated ND because the nuns at his school made the students pray for a ND victory every Friday, and despite being Irish Catholic, he grew up a hometown Pitt fan. They did the same at my mom's all-girls school.

I never bought into the Catholic affinity for Notre Dame. Or Duquesne. When I was a kid in the 1960s, ND was on TV quite often, and they had a Sunday highlights show, so I was familiar with them but the Irish didn't grab at my heart strings, despite similar cajoling from a couple of nuns. I liked Southern Cal and Colorado.

 

[cease10]

In your opinion, do you think a northeastern-centric conference would have caused other schools in the region to take football more seriously and invest in it, or would it still be the haves and the have-nots? I wish we had a conference like that but that’s the only way I could see Paterno’s idea truly changing football in the northeast.

Yes, I believe it would create football interest in the Northeast and cause other schools to invest and want to build football programs.

Penn State, Pittsburgh, West Virginia, Temple, Syracuse, Rutgers and Boston College were the schools included in Paterno's plan. That would have been a decent solid conference. The bottom feeders Rutgers and Temple would eventually get their act together I believe.

I've also seen Maryland listed as a school of interest for Paterno, and may have been able to poach them from the ACC.

Virginia Tech was also an independent at the time and would have been a great addition down the road. Maybe UVA and MD follows to join the league.

Miami and Florida St were also independents at the time. The potential for that conference was endless.

I could also see the possibility of FCS schools like UMASS, UCONN, etc building up their programs.

 

[PittMiamiRivalry]

I asked this question on the national board and I’ll ask it here,

The NE is by far the weakest region in the country when it comes to football, both in terms of success and popularity, but it wasn’t always this way. Pitt, Syracuse, and Boston College used to be powers but have struggled for years. Programs like Fordham, Carnegie Tech (now Carnegie Mellon), and Duquesne were all prominent programs and made major bowls in the 30s and 40s. Nowadays, Penn State is the only one left standing.

So, what happened to northeast college football? Is it a lack of interest in college sports in relation to major cities and professional sports? Is it the dynamic of northeast universities (smaller, private) that cause their thoughts on football and athletics to be so much different than the rest of the country?

A few thoughts,
- Is it that there isn’t a culture of rooting for the local/state P5/G5 school in addition to your FCS/D2/D3 alma mater because there are rivalries that transcend into professional sports, such as hockey?
- Since, IIRC, the northeast has the largest Catholic base in the country, does it lose fans to Catholics who decide to root for Notre Dame instead of the local P5/G5 team?

What say you?

Lafayette was a national power in the 1920's and 30's. Penn, Carnegie Tech, Fordham, Duquense, all big time programs. Two events occurred in the 30s and 40s that did much to force these schools to de-emphasize: the Great Depression and WWII. Some schools just ran out of money and couldn't attract fans to games. Not so different from urban programs today. The Northeast was the mega-population center back in the day. Pittsburgh had 600,000 residents in 1950....but college football went west and south. It's terrific Pitt, Syracuse, Temple, BC are still fielding Power 5 teams. I don't count Penn State in this. The Nits are a mid-western school locked in Appalachian PA.

 

[wbrpanther]

Well. Knowing Detroit, Detroit has won what, one playoff game in my lifetime (and I am over 50). Never been to an NFC Champ game let alone a Super Bowl. While Michigan and Michigan State has been pretty strong over the years.

Same with Ohio. Bengals and Browns vs tOSU?

Down in the south, College Football was much more established and entrenched in the region before the NFL. Plus the southern cities are much more transient, I have been to Steelers games in Atlanta and Charlotte where Steeler fans dwarfed the local teams. That is true of the NY teams or Philly or Chicago, etc...

Green Bay and Wisconsin is interesting, because it isn't like the most populous state, but Green Bay has been one of the flagship's of the NFL since its inception.

Chicago? Northwestern struggles as much, if not more, than we do in a city that is 5 times bigger than Pittsburgh because of the Bears and a strong allegiance to Notre Dame.

I always say, you look on an electoral map, and where it is red, mostly college football rules, where it is blue, NFL rules. Not totally, but generally it is true.

Correction. Detroit won at least 2 NFL championships in the 50s. Never in the Super Bowl era.

 

[DTownNorth]

It's terrific Pitt, Syracuse, Temple, BC are still fielding Power 5 teams. I don't count Penn State in this. The Nits are a mid-western school locked in Appalachian PA.

Syracuse is a midwestern school and Pitt is a midwestern school also locked in Appalachia. Both cities have been losing (and continue to lose) population for decades.

However, you are right that Temple and BC are both urban schools in major US cities/markets.

 

[pittdan77]

Syracuse is a midwestern school and Pitt is a midwestern school also locked in Appalachia. Both cities have been losing (and continue to lose) population for decades.

However, you are right that Temple and BC are both urban schools in major US cities/markets.

Boy, the people in NY are going to be surprised to hear that.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Neither Pittsburgh nor Syracuse are midwestern towns, IMHO. They’re both from colonial states — which is an important consideration.

 

[ameoba defense]

Boy, the people in NY are going to be surprised to hear that.

Folks who don't know any better are always trying to put Pittsburgh, and Buffalo into the Midwest. Never seen Syracuse mentioned though. The so called midwest is really not a cohesive region though. What does Cleveland have in common with KC? What you really have is the Great Lakes Region. This is a true region, stretching from Rochester, to Milwaukee. The cities all have a similar layout and built form, with the possible exception of Chicago, due to it's huge size. Pittsburgh is part of the interior Northeast, which is indeed, the northern sections of the Appalachians. Let's be honest, Pittsburgh is loathe to embrace an Appalachian description, due to our neighbors to the south, but geographically, Pittsburgh is in the same region as Wheeling, and Morgantown. To me, the real Midwest starts about 30 miles outside of Columbus, when the hills melt away to endless flat territory. Indy is the quintessential Midwestern city, and is about as much like Pittsburgh as Dallas.

 

[nargoozi]

From Upstate NY here. Pitt alum. There’s no big school that anyone relates to besides when cuse makes the NCCAB tourney then everyone is a cuse fan all the sudden. New England, NY and NJ is what I’d consider the Northeast. Big factor is the weather. The climate definitely plays a factor. It gets colder faster and much more snow so less time to play. Basketball is much bigger in NY especially with Offseason AAU. Schools are much smaller as well with less funding and lack of good coaching/administration. Especially in New England practically no one lives in large sections of the northeast like the Adirondack region of NY, Vermont, New Hampshire, Maine. These are mountainous regions with small towns here and there. Given all that there are still many kids who love the sport of football and in my opinion see overlooked by recruiting and don’t have he resources and mentorship to get then D1 looks. I think University if Albany should be a D1 foootball school no clue why they never funded a program given it’s the capital of the state with the most important City in the world and huge government spending.

 

[PittPanther44]

It’s partially pro sports, no doubt. I also think the transient nature of the northeast is a contributing factor. A lot of people are from other places in the big cities. Much different than a big state with lots of rural areas where people have lived their whole life

Now Pittsburgh is kind of an anomaly. It’s a Northeast from a work mentality standpoint, but more Midwest in social aspects. But there are more people from here than have moved here. Also more like the Midwest. Pitt would have a huge fanbase if 1) we won more consistently, and two we weren’t landlocked in between 3 state schools fan bases, with one especially intertwined, It’s pretty unique in that sense. So I do think Pgh is a great college sports area, but it’s a lot of teams to go around when you add up the pro and college teams

 

[pittdan77]

The NE is just saturated with sports entertainment. Before the NFL really took off, CFB had more importance. TV changed that and most of the NE schools were very slow to find enough TV exposure to be on every weekend. Pitt, BC, and Syracuse finally got closer last year. PSU and ND figured it out a while ago and are doing just fine.