Why Pitt is screwed because of TV

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

It's what I have been saying, while Pittsburgh, the market is much larger than West Virginia, WVU, the brand, is much more popular and loyal than Pitt's. And it is not so much anything Pitt can do. Pitt is located in one of the strongest NFL markets, with one of its most iconic teams, the Steelers. Pitt is surrounded by Ohio State, Penn State and even Notre Dame. Along with WVU, so there isn't much of a chance to grow its fanbase. Remember this folks, most people who go to colleges, aren't necessarily sports fans.

It's reality. It's really nothing we can do, and in most cases, it is really not our fault.

 

[WVUinColumbus]

If there's not enough money then teams like Rutgers won't stay in the Big Ten indefinitely. It'll keep stratifying.

You can keep feeding the alligator but you'll run out of food eventually and when it comes on the boat, you'll be the first to be eaten.

Agreed. Just because there was a point in time (2010-2012) where cable subscriptions meant whether you were in a P5 conference (except in WVU case where it was merit-football excellence based……not luck) doesn’t mean that those lesser schools in B1G and SEC aren’t in trouble. They will be gone in the end game. It will take some time though.

Wake Forest and Oregon St have zero chance. At least others (WVU and Pitt) can hold out a shred of hope even if it’s probably not realistic.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Agreed. Just because there was a point in time (2010-2012) where cable subscriptions meant whether you were in a P5 conference (except in WVU case where it was merit-football excellence based……not luck) doesn’t mean that those lesser schools in B1G and SEC aren’t in trouble. They will be gone in the end game. It will take some time though.

Wake Forest and Oregon St have zero chance. At least others (WVU and Pitt) can hold out a shred of hope even if it’s probably not realistic.

Again as I have said, what will ultimately do the ACC in, is too many properties are small, private schools like BC, Wake and Duke, and schools like Pitt and GT (doppelgängers) in large cities but surrounded by dominant college fanbases that limit its appeal and growth potential. Pitt can go 13-0 over the next 2 seasons and its appeal would still be limited. That's not a criticism, it is just our reality. Meanwhile, that 9-8 Steelers team inching towards a wild card slot....HERE WE GO!!!!!

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

So, how long before Rutgers is politely asked to leave the BeeoneGee, because they are taking more than they bring in to the conference?

Can't wait for that to happen, because that would be so much delicious justice.

 

[rutgersdave]

Can't wait for that to happen, because that would be so much delicious justice.

Rutgers been in the Big Ten for 8 years already and expect at least another ten years. I’ll let you know when Rutgers is voted out of conference.

I think Pittsburgh stays in the ACC and there might be some team changes in the ACC but no other difference like the last 10 years. The compensation of the conferences are just different.

 

[CJsE]

Remember this folks, most people who go to colleges, aren't necessarily sports fans.

I would absolutely disagree with that statement if talking about most P5 schools. There are absolutely a lot of students that don't care about sports, but to say greater than half don't care about their school's success is crazy. Especially when it's been proven time and again that athletic success has shown to increase applications, enrollment, quality of enrollment, donations, and perceived prestige.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

I would absolutely disagree with that statement if talking about most P5 schools. There are absolutely a lot of students that don't care about sports, but to say greater than half don't care about their school's success is crazy. Especially when it's been proven time and again that athletic success has shown to increase applications, enrollment, quality of enrollment, donations, and perceived prestige.

In schools like Ohio State and Penn State, 95% care about football. At a school like Pitt the ratio is likely closer to the reverse. Part of that is the lack of success. But part of it is the academic culture. Pitt is urban and far more anti-establishment, and major college revenue sports are the epitome of establishment. When you first start taking classes at Pitt you will hear outright hostility in the statements from the instructors.

I had a Poli Sci class with an instructor that took shots the football and basketball programs in almost every class session. He really seemed bitter that they got so much attention and resources. He was an outlier, but other instructors also would take digs at the sports here and there as well. My old roommate has a son now attending Pitt and he says that still often happens.

Meanwhile my old boss went to Ohio State (as does/did his daughter) and he said that football drives the culture, and the academics follow dutifully in tow. He said this in a positive way, as if it’s absolutely correct that it does. Given that Ohio State consistently outranks Pitt academically, I can’t really refute it, either. We all know PSU is totally driven to the worst extremes by football. I’d imagine an instructor like the one I described above would be bounced after one term (maybe sooner) if he’d been hired at one of those schools But frankly he would never have applied there in the first place. It’s just how it is.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

I’ll let you know when there are rumors about Rutgers being kicked out. I just don’t see it in the near future.

Has any member from the Big Ten, SEC, ACC, PAC 10 been removed ?

I suppose only the Petty Least would do some stupid shit like that. One reason that "conference" no longer exists.

 

[Burgh15]

I would absolutely disagree with that statement if talking about most P5 schools. There are absolutely a lot of students that don't care about sports, but to say greater than half don't care about their school's success is crazy. Especially when it's been proven time and again that athletic success has shown to increase applications, enrollment, quality of enrollment, donations, and perceived prestige.

I hear all the time kids who want the big college experience mean they want to sit in a packed student section in a sold out stadium. It's a big reason why the Penn State cult appeals to so many.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

In schools like Ohio State and Penn State, 95% care about football. At a school like Pitt the ratio is likely closer to the reverse. Part of that is the lack of success. But part of it is the academic culture. Pitt is urban and far more anti-establishment, and major college revenue sports are the epitome of establishment. When you first start taking classes at Pitt you will hear outright hostility in the statements from the instructors.

I had a Poli Sci class with an instructor that took shots the football and basketball programs in almost every class session. He really seemed bitter that they got so much attention and resources. He was an outlier, but other instructors also would take digs at the sports here and there as well. My old roommate has a son now attending Pitt and he says that still often happens.

Meanwhile my old boss went to Ohio State (as does/did his daughter) and he said that football drives the culture, and the academics follow dutifully in tow. He said this in a positive way, as if it’s absolutely correct that it does. Given that Ohio State consistently outranks Pitt academically, I can’t really refute it, either. We all know PSU is totally driven to the worst extremes by football. I’d imagine an instructor like the one I described above would be bounced after one term (maybe sooner) if he’d been hired at one of those schools But frankly he would never have applied there in the first place. It’s just how it is.

Yes. Remember there was some ex PSU professor who basically said she was ostracized because she didn't bow down to Paterno and the football program.

 

[joeydavid]

I'm in the, "why are Pitt fans panicking," camp. We should know this school well enough by now that it will only do what it sees as best for the school. It's not going to lower academic standards and it's not going to jeopardize its reputation. Plus the ACC isn't dead, yet. Just wait and see. We're at the mercy of the TV people.

Most in that "camp" are hoopies, pedsters, etc pretending to be Pitt fans.

So funny and yet so sad.

 

[CJsE]

In schools like Ohio State and Penn State, 95% care about football. At a school like Pitt the ratio is likely closer to the reverse. Part of that is the lack of success. But part of it is the academic culture. Pitt is urban and far more anti-establishment, and major college revenue sports are the epitome of establishment. When you first start taking classes at Pitt you will hear outright hostility in the statements from the instructors.

I had a Poli Sci class with an instructor that took shots the football and basketball programs in almost every class session. He really seemed bitter that they got so much attention and resources. He was an outlier, but other instructors also would take digs at the sports here and there as well. My old roommate has a son now attending Pitt and he says that still often happens.

Meanwhile my old boss went to Ohio State (as does/did his daughter) and he said that football drives the culture, and the academics follow dutifully in tow. He said this in a positive way, as if it’s absolutely correct that it does. Given that Ohio State consistently outranks Pitt academically, I can’t really refute it, either. We all know PSU is totally driven to the worst extremes by football. I’d imagine an instructor like the one I described above would be bounced after one term (maybe sooner) if he’d been hired at one of those schools But frankly he would never have applied there in the first place. It’s just how it is.

Pitt's student section is what, like 4,000 seats? The students generally have a pretty good showing and for every student that actually goes to the game you easily have multiple times that amount that "care" about Pitt football but either don't like going to the game or prefer watching it on a sofa or watch it at a bar or their frat.

Sure Pitt might not have a high percentage of fanatical students, but it's crazy to say that "close to 95%" don't care about Pitt football. If you're talking graduate students there would definitely be a lower level of interest, but definitely not for the 19,000 or so undergrads.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Again, alot of this is not Pitt's fault. I lived in a college town and game day there feels much "different" than it does in Pittsburgh. The town basically stops. Those old Friday Night Lights shows where all the shops are closed with signs rooting the local team on, that is real life in college towns. So because of this, there is much more of an engagement from the student body and therefore the alumni. I don't know how the U is such a valued commodity as their attendance and small student body is worse than ours, but they really created a brand, not unreminiscent of what the Raiders did with fans who like a villain. And of course the Dolphins have been mostly mediocre since the early 70's so they filled a void locally.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Pitt's student section is what, like 4,000 seats? The students generally have a pretty good showing and for every student that actually goes to the game you easily have multiple times that amount that "care" about Pitt football but either don't like going to the game or prefer watching it on a sofa or watch it at a bar or their frat.

Sure Pitt might not have a high percentage of fanatical students, but it's crazy to say that "close to 95%" don't care about Pitt football. If you're talking graduate students there would definitely be a lower level of interest, but definitely not for the 19,000 or so undergrads.

The student section is more than double that troll.

 

[CJsE]

The student section is more than double that troll.

Calm down thinskin, I was just making a guess based counting the section sizes on the lower deck being about 20 seats wide and 30 rows tall giving 600 seats per sections and it looked like there were probably 7 full-sized sections as listed on the Pitt Student Ticket website as sections 116-127 for 2022, with many of those being broken-up corner sections. I didn't account for any spill-over areas, but I highly doubt that it's 8,000+ as the section would wrap beyond the 50-yard line or at least half the endzone upper deck shoulder to shoulder.

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[WVUinColumbus]

Yes. Remember there was some ex PSU professor who basically said she was ostracized because she didn't bow down to Paterno and the football program.

Sandusky gonna Sandusky.

I will never refer to that institution to anything but “Sandusky”….and I have no issues with its fans (I know you guys do). I loved the games back in the 80s. I honestly couldn’t imagine what would happen to a coach at WVU who did that to kids. He might die. Some of the good ol boys might just make him disappear.

Again, alot of this is not Pitt's fault. I lived in a college town and game day there feels much "different" than it does in Pittsburgh. The town basically stops. Those old Friday Night Lights shows where all the shops are closed with signs rooting the local team on, that is real life in college towns. So because of this, there is much more of an engagement from the student body and therefore the alumni. I don't know how the U is such a valued commodity as their attendance and small student body is worse than ours, but they really created a brand, not unreminiscent of what the Raiders did with fans who like a villain. And of course the Dolphins have been mostly mediocre since the early 70's so they filled a void locally.

Miami and Coral Gables are a joke. That’s an “event” town.

They’ll support the U if they are great.

Posers

Too many New Yorkers to give a s*** about college sports. F*** that place.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

REALLY??!! Sorry to wake you up from your slumber, but TV revenue is 100% what is driving the bus. It has allowed WVU to invest shit tons into it's facilities over the past few years (which, among other reasons, is helping drive the best recruiting class we've had in a couple of decades).

By the way, in just about every measurable metric, WVU has outperformed Pitt over the past 10, 20, 30, 40 years. Yeah, you guys had a pretty good year last year, but one year doesn't change your stripes. Pitt is still considered a mediocre program with piss poor fan support.

Last 10 years Pitt has been better. Better overall record, better conference record, won a conference title, won 11 games.

We might be a mediocre program with piss poor fan support, but the ACC still chose Pitt over WVU. A WVU who was coming off their best 10 year stretch in school history.

 

[cashisking884]

Sandusky gonna Sandusky.

I will never refer to that institution to anything but “Sandusky”….and I have no issues with its fans (I know you guys do). I loved the games back in the 80s. I honestly couldn’t imagine what would happen to a coach at WVU who did that to kids. He might die. Some of the good ol boys might just make him disappear.

Miami and Coral Gables are a joke. That’s an “event” town.

They’ll support the U if they are great.

Posers

Too many New Yorkers to give a s*** about college sports. F*** that place.

USC and UCLA are as well.

They are still national brands that can be a big deal if they get going, and it’s easy to see how they could get going with money.

 

[h2p_5150]

In schools like Ohio State and Penn State, 95% care about football. At a school like Pitt the ratio is likely closer to the reverse. Part of that is the lack of success. But part of it is the academic culture. Pitt is urban and far more anti-establishment, and major college revenue sports are the epitome of establishment. When you first start taking classes at Pitt you will hear outright hostility in the statements from the instructors.

I had a Poli Sci class with an instructor that took shots the football and basketball programs in almost every class session. He really seemed bitter that they got so much attention and resources. He was an outlier, but other instructors also would take digs at the sports here and there as well. My old roommate has a son now attending Pitt and he says that still often happens.

Meanwhile my old boss went to Ohio State (as does/did his daughter) and he said that football drives the culture, and the academics follow dutifully in tow. He said this in a positive way, as if it’s absolutely correct that it does. Given that Ohio State consistently outranks Pitt academically, I can’t really refute it, either. We all know PSU is totally driven to the worst extremes by football. I’d imagine an instructor like the one I described above would be bounced after one term (maybe sooner) if he’d been hired at one of those schools But frankly he would never have applied there in the first place. It’s just how it is.

Those major football programs drive student recruitment. It‘s why the common anti-paying players talking point about athletic departments "losing money" is extremely misleading. These schools are more than willing to "lose money" on sports because they know they can charge higher tuition and attract more students if they have strong sports teams. They are huge advertisements for the college. These athletic departments that "lose money" every year in reality are highly profitable for the university as a whole.

 

[The Ole Six-Fiver]

Those major football programs drive student recruitment. It‘s why the common anti-paying players talking point about athletic departments "losing money" is extremely misleading. These schools are more than willing to "lose money" on sports because they know they can charge higher tuition and attract more students if they have strong sports teams. They are huge advertisements for the college. These athletic departments that "lose money" every year in reality are highly profitable for the university as a whole.

No argument here. Pitt would point at high applicants rates despite yawner sports that seem to belie the point. But that’s more a case of all boats being lifted by ever increasing college attendance. But that ship has long sailed; Pitt leadership made its stand against athletics excellence multiple times in the past, most notably when we had the chance to be a Big Ten member in the 30s, and then again when we were dominating football in the 70s just as the popularity of the sport was about to explode.

Much of this is the same old same old, “Pitt will never get in the sewer with the top programs” lament, but this is a different animal: when things settle and were left on the sidelines (due to our decades of mediocrity), where is the money going to come from to support Victory Heights and all those expanded non-revenue sports that mean so much to Pitt brass? Pitt surely ain’t gonna cut them. Students (and parents) better brace themselves for supporting them with their tuition

 

[pittdan77]

Most in that "camp" are hoopies, pedsters, etc pretending to be Pitt fans.

So funny and yet so sad.

This thread went exactly where I said it would, LOL.

There have been a Pitt to the SEC, a Pitt to the B1G, a Pitt to the scrap heap article, and an ACC is just fine article this weekend, each citing some obscure rumor and corresponding self-serving data point. My favorite is still the unknown dude in North Jersey that did his own research and made this thread happen.