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Why santos?

S

snaphook297

Freshman
Dec 19, 2020
1,124
820
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Pittsburgh
By now we all know he just cant shoot . 1-5 from
The field . Really a nonentity ..The bench is thin and having mr. Personal reasons taking up roster spot with no action rubs salt in the wound
 
This is the most I've watched and his form looks good. I know 1 three went in and out and no other shot missed badly. He rebounded pretty good.
 
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snaphook297 said:
By now we all know he just cant shoot . 1-5 from
The field . Really a nonentity ..The bench is thin and having mr. Personal reasons taking up roster spot with no action rubs salt in the wound
Click to expand...

I thought his minutes were bad and played too much. We only have 10 scholarship players right now but you really only need 9. I wouldn’t play him or just give him a quick 3-4 minute stretch to rest someone.
 
snaphook297 said:
Really just upset we have no alternative to giving minutes to Santos
Click to expand...
That's the problem ... what other option is there? He didn't look pathetic, but I agree he looks underwhelming at this stage of his career, and his numbers seem to back that up.

The shot right before half was pretty though.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
I thought his minutes were bad and played too much. We only have 10 scholarship players right now but you really only need 9. I wouldn’t play him or just give him a quick 3-4 minute stretch to rest someone.
Click to expand...
We only played 9 guys yesterday as is. Who's the 10th you're thinking of? Reality is we only have 7 guys we'd probably "want" to see in -- the 5 starters, Nike, and Jorge. So any time there is foul trouble, it becomes a problem.
 
MarshallGoldberg said:
We only played 9 guys yesterday as is. Who's the 10th you're thinking of? Reality is we only have 7 guys we'd probably "want" to see in -- the 5 starters, Nike, and Jorge. So any time there is foul trouble, it becomes a problem.
Click to expand...

This might be hard to believe, but Guillermo's numbers almost across the entire board in the efficiency metrics are better than Jorge's. That includes offensive efficiency, steal rate, offensive and defensive rebound rate and assist rate. Both twins have proven to provide half decent depth to this team, and G despite the fouls had a pretty darn good game yesterday against Clemson. The upside of these 2 twins, as I have said before is tremendous. Both will be substantially improved a year from now. And both are decent in the efficiency metrics as 2 raw first year freshmen with minimal strength.


Santos on the other hand is by far the weak link on the offense. Santos does 2 things well. His defensive rebounding is really good, and he doesn't turn the ball over. Thats it. He obviously makes a good amount of shots in practice because he still has the green light to shoot shots in games. But he simply cant make them and it really hurts our offense. And yesterday he had open looks that I remember where a defensive player wasnt even close to him. Having 1 additional shooter that could make shots on this team would be a big difference off the bench. Santos shooting percentages and offensive efficiency are near rock bottom of the entire acc.
 
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Santos only takes wide open shots or end of clock .
He needs to shoot those and believe they are going in
 
Vader_Storm said:
This might be hard to believe, but Guillermo's numbers almost across the entire board in the efficiency metrics are better than Jorge's. That includes offensive efficiency, steal rate, offensive and defensive rebound rate and assist rate. Both twins have proven to provide half decent depth to this team, and G despite the fouls had a pretty darn good game yesterday against Clemson. The upside of these 2 twins, as I have said before is tremendous. Both will be substantially improved a year from now. And both are decent in the efficiency metrics as 2 raw first year freshmen with minimal strength.


Santos on the other hand is by far the weak link on the offense. Santos does 2 things well. His defensive rebounding is really good, and he doesn't turn the ball over. Thats it. He obviously makes a good amount of shots in practice because he still has the green light to shoot shots in games. But he simply cant make them and it really hurts our offense. And yesterday he had open looks that I remember where a defensive player wasnt even close to him. Having 1 additional shooter that could make shots on this team would be a big difference off the bench. Santos shooting percentages and offensive efficiency are near rock bottom of the entire acc.
Click to expand...
Santos is a guy you really
built up and praised when
he was recruited. You told
us what a great 3 pt shooter
we were getting. Many of
us on here, thought this
guy looks terrible. I posted
he looks really bad but
let's give him a chance
since he's a frosh. In fact
I mentioned that on a
number of posts that you
ought to watch players
actually play on the floor,
and not only rely on stats
(ORTG's). Stats are important
but there's far more to it
then that. He's added nothing,
Zero since he's been here. He
hustles, and appears to be a
good team mate. Above post
tells me you're coming
around on how bad he's been
here. By the way, last yr he
was 22% from three, and this
yr 13.6%, so far. No ORTG is
going to cover up those %'s.

I know you spend a lot of
time on recruiting, and it's
apprecited here. I'm more
interested in what you see.
Stats too, but also what
you see on the floor.
 
Last edited:
Chescat said:
Santos is a guy you really
built up and praised when
he was recruited. You told
us what a great 3 pt shooter
we were getting. Many of
us on here, thought this
guy looks terrible. I posted
he looks really bad but
let's give him a chance
since he's a frosh. In fact
I mentioned that on a
number of posts that you
ought to watch players
actually play on the floor,
and not only rely on stats
(ORTG's). Stats are important
but there's far more to it
then that. He's added nothing,
Zero since he's been here. He
hustles, and appears to be a
good team mate. Above post
tells me you're coming
around on how bad he's been
here. By the way, last yr he
was 22% from three, and this
yr 13.6%, so far. No ORTG is
going to cover up those %'s.

I know you spend a lot of
tie on recruiting, and it's
apprecited here. I'm more
interested in what you see.
Stats too, but also what
you see on the floor.
Click to expand...



There has been a lot of criticism on Nate Santos shooting ability. And its obvious he cant make them yet in important moments over the course of a full game. I report what I see and the stats that I get from high school and in AAU, I watch a lot of games, I finally just watched a full game from Marlon Barnes to see what the heck is going on with Brush this year. And I know the problems now with them. Anyway,

There are plenty of players that struggle in D1 when the actual lights are on and ultimately bust, you can take a hard look at Derrick Lively for example at Duke right now, a Top 3 player in the country and 5 star that is struggling to come anywhere close to the hype. There are plenty of examples of this in the high school ranks of highly ranked players every single year where guys struggle and / or bust.



Ive been on record saying the bench should have been shortened already. Virginia outscored Pitt by 6 points in less than 2 minutes the very second Santos came on the floor. I criticized Capel heavily for this during and after the Virginia game.



With all that said.... Santos was +15 in the box score yesterday against Clemson, the highest of any Pitt player on the team and he rebounded the ball well. So Capel had some reason to play him, despite what I and others have thought on Nate Santos. No, he is not shooting well and hasn't shot it well. That is painfully obvious. What is also obvious, is that he has 5 total free throw attempts and 22 three point attempts for the entire season. These are very small sample sizes that could change quickly.


Again, with all that said, I would play the starters as much as possible without burning guys out. And I have quite a bit of trust in the twins at this point.
 
snaphook297 said:
Good point .Really just upset we have no alternative to giving minutes to Santos
Click to expand...
Santos was playing for Hinson? If that is correct, what about Jorge?

Seemed to me Clemson plays pretty big so it would not bean extreme matchup problem?
 
Last edited:
MarshallGoldberg said:
We only played 9 guys yesterday as is. Who's the 10th you're thinking of? Reality is we only have 7 guys we'd probably "want" to see in -- the 5 starters, Nike, and Jorge. So any time there is foul trouble, it becomes a problem.
Click to expand...

Yea, Hugley would be the 10th. Johnson and Jeffress sitting out and Cashius McNeilly deciding to play college basketball in Canada, strangely enough. He had his 1st game on Friday. 6 points in 25 minutes vs Ontario Tech.
 
Chescat said:
Santos is a guy you really
built up and praised when
he was recruited. You told
us what a great 3 pt shooter
we were getting. Many of
us on here, thought this
guy looks terrible. I posted
he looks really bad but
let's give him a chance
since he's a frosh. In fact
I mentioned that on a
number of posts that you
ought to watch players
actually play on the floor,
and not only rely on stats
(ORTG's). Stats are important
but there's far more to it
then that. He's added nothing,
Zero since he's been here. He
hustles, and appears to be a
good team mate. Above post
tells me you're coming
around on how bad he's been
here. By the way, last yr he
was 22% from three, and this
yr 13.6%, so far. No ORTG is
going to cover up those %'s.

I know you spend a lot of
time on recruiting, and it's
apprecited here. I'm more
interested in what you see.
Stats too, but also what
you see on the floor.
Click to expand...
Do you think Santos looks bad? In the limited amount he’s played, I have very little faith that the ball is going to go in. But that’s not because he looks bad. He’s taking open shots not forced ones and usually has good form on his shots. He doesn’t miss by much but they are all misses nonetheless.

I don’t think he looks terribly bad on defense or rebounding either.
 
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NCanton Panther said:
Do you think Santos looks bad? In the limited amount he’s played, I have very little faith that the ball is going to go in. But that’s not because he looks bad. He’s taking open shots not forced ones and usually has good form on his shots. He doesn’t miss by much but they are all misses nonetheless.

I don’t think he looks terribly bad on defense or rebounding either.
Click to expand...
Yup, his "form" looks great.
I've been saying ever since
he arrived that technically
his shot funamentals are
actually very good. The
problem that everyone
here knows, is he can't put
the ball in the ocean in
real game time. Yes,
he gets some rebounds,
but he was touted as a
shooter. That's why he
was recruited here.
Maybe in a game of
H O R SE in your driveway.
 
NCanton Panther said:
Do you think Santos looks bad? In the limited amount he’s played, I have very little faith that the ball is going to go in. But that’s not because he looks bad. He’s taking open shots not forced ones and usually has good form on his shots. He doesn’t miss by much but they are all misses nonetheless.

I don’t think he looks terribly bad on defense or rebounding either.
Click to expand...
Ok, I'll give you that. The
reason he was brought
here was because he
supposedly was a
shooter. If you just look
at his game, not including
shooting, does he strike
you as an ACC player?
Not only that, but one
of the first players off the
bench? He's actually in
the rotation. If he were
#10-13 I'd be ok with him.
If he were 10-13 he would
only see the floor in a
blow out win or loss.
 
Vader_Storm said:
With all that said.... Santos was +15 in the box score yesterday against Clemson, the highest of any Pitt player on the team and he rebounded the ball well. So Capel had some reason to play him, despite what I and others have thought on Nate Santos.
Click to expand...
C'mon Vader, Capel is only
playing him because he
has no choice. Personally
I'd go with the other twin.
 
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Chescat said:
C'mon Vader, Capel is only
playing him because he
has no choice. Personally
I'd go with the other twin.
Click to expand...

He played 12 minutes yesterday and had 5 rebounds, and rebounding was my #1 key to winning the game.


Regardless, 12 minutes yesterday was the most minutes Santos played since a game in November against Alabama State. Santos has played about 2 or 3 minutes per game since that game in November. And he was a no show in key games against UNC and Syracuse.


Santos playing as much as he did yesterday was not normal, whether we like it / agree with Capel's decision or not.
 
Vader_Storm said:
He played 12 minutes yesterday and had 5 rebounds, and rebounding was my #1 key to winning the game.


Regardless, 12 minutes yesterday was the most minutes Santos played since a game in November against Alabama State. Santos has played about 2 or 3 minutes per game since that game in November. And he was a no show in key games against UNC and Syracuse.


Santos playing as much as he did yesterday was not normal, whether we like it / agree with Capel's decision or not.
Click to expand...
Ok, now here's I saw it.
Capel has six players
who play. After that,
it's Diaz and Santos.
That makes Santos #8
in the rotation. In most
Bball rotations the #8
guy sees the floor. Even
if Capel had the other
twin as #8, that would
put Santos at #9. As you
know Jeffers and Hugley
are out. If they weren't
your boy Santos would be
# 11 at best. That's where
I see him. As I said, Capel
has no choice.
 
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Chescat said:
Ok, now here's I saw it.
Capel has six players
who play. After that,
it's Diaz and Santos.
That makes Santos #8
in the rotation. In most
Bball rotations the #8
guy sees the floor. Even
if Capel had the other
twin as #8, that would
put Santos at #9. As you
know Jeffers and Hugley
are out. If they weren't
your boy Santos would be
# 11 at best. That's where
I see him. As I said, Capel
has no choice.
Click to expand...

He has choice, just not a lot of choice. He could have played Jorge at the 4 or he could have played Hinson more minutes at the 4. Capel chose neither. And Hinson was averaging about 38 minutes per game the prior 3 games. Against Clemson, he played 30 minutes.


That run Pitt went on in the 2nd half, Santos was playing power forward with G in the game.
 
Starters plus Sibande is 6.
Diaz twins IMO are 7, 8.
Now for Santos' REAL
value on what this team
was supposed to be......
Hugley and Jeffers would
be 9 and 10, Dior 11. Of
course not in that order.
So, the real value of the
Pitt roster makes Santos
the #12 player. That is his
place on this team, and
you know it. Capel with
the injuries has as I said,
"no choice." He has to
play him.

I fully understand what you
said about yesterday's
game and the "choice"
Capel made. What this
thread is about is Santos.
He's the #12 player. He's
only getting time because
Capel has no other choice.
The #12 player on this team
is not an ACC player. He
sure as hell is not the
shooter you originally
touted on here.
 
Chescat said:
Starters plus Sibande is 6.
Diaz twins IMO are 7, 8.
Now for Santos' REAL
value on what this team
was supposed to be......
Hugley and Jeffers would
be 9 and 10, Dior 11. Of
course not in that order.
So, the real value of the
Pitt roster makes Santos
the #12 player. That is his
place on this team, and
you know it. Capel with
the injuries has as I said,
"no choice." He has to
play him.

I fully understand what you
said about yesterday's
game and the "choice"
Capel made. What this
thread is about is Santos.
He's the #12 player. He's
only getting time because
Capel has no other choice.
The #12 player on this team
is not an ACC player. He
sure as hell is not the
shooter you originally
touted on here.
Click to expand...


If we were at where we truly wanted to be, the twins would be redshirting, Santos wouldnt play at all, and every player in the entire rotation would have an ORTG power rating over 105 at a bare minimum and we would have a defensive team rating in the national top 30. That's what the numbers would look like on some of our powerhouse teams that were competing for league and national titles. We just arent there yet and the depth is no where near there yet.


I dont disagree with you in regards to Santos place on the team being the last guy on the floor up and down the roster.


And Santos so far is not the shooter that he was in high school. However, Santos was a really good shooter in high school. He missed AAU his last 2 years because of injury and because of covid, so high school is all I had to provide. You seem to keep bringing this up to me. On national signing day, here is the scouting report by Jeff Capel on the day Santos signed. And Ill provide the link with it. Obviously our head Coach saw the same exact thing I reported on him from High School.


"Nate is an exciting player with a knack for putting the ball in the basket," said Capel. "He has shown the ability to score at all three levels in a very good high school basketball league. We like his shooting ability, size and competitiveness. Nate's desire to be a terrific teammate and impact winning in any way possible will be a great addition to the culture we are building. We look forward to helping him continue to develop in our program."


pittsburghpanthers.com

Wing Prospect Nate Santos Signs with Pitt - Pitt Panthers #H2P

PITTSBURGH – University of Pittsburgh head coach Jeff Capel announced the signing of wing prospect Nate Santos Thursday morning.
pittsburghpanthers.com pittsburghpanthers.com
 
Ok, after all this we
finally agree on some
things concerning Santos.
As far as Capel's comments
at signing time, Coaches
always talk up their recruits.
Can you imagine a coach
saying...... "I had to take
him, we couldn't get
anyone else." That's
coachspeak, and if you're
around AAU and off
season games as much
as you say are, you
should know coachspeak.
when you hear it.
 
Vader_Storm said:
And Hinson was averaging about 38 minutes per game the prior 3 games. Against Clemson, he played 30 minutes.
Click to expand...


We do remember that he was in foul trouble and eventually fouled out yesterday, right?

There were a lot of fouls called yesterday, on both teams. Both teams had someone foul out. Foul trouble obviously affected both teams player rotation.
 
Joe the Panther Fan said:
We do remember that he was in foul trouble and eventually fouled out yesterday, right?

There were a lot of fouls called yesterday, on both teams. Both teams had someone foul out. Foul trouble obviously affected both teams player rotation.
Click to expand...

I missed most of the first half yesterday so Im not able to comment on that. I did notice when I looked at the play by play he fouled out with 10 seconds left in the game. So, he may have sat because of this in the first half, but I did not watch it so I cant say whether the subs made by Capel were good or bad in the first half.
 
Vader_Storm said:
I missed most of the first half yesterday so Im not able to comment on that. I did notice when I looked at the play by play he fouled out with 10 seconds left in the game. So, he may have sat because of this in the first half, but I did not watch it so I cant say whether the subs made by Capel were good or bad in the first half.
Click to expand...


He got his second foul in the first half at 5:06 and sat the rest of the half. He also came out of the game mid-way through the second half shortly after he picked up his third foul, although whether that was foul related or just to give him a blow, who knows. That was four plus minutes.
 
Chescat said:
Ok, I'll give you that. The
reason he was brought
here was because he
supposedly was a
shooter. If you just look
at his game, not including
shooting, does he strike
you as an ACC player?
Not only that, but one
of the first players off the
bench? He's actually in
the rotation. If he were
#10-13 I'd be ok with him.
If he were 10-13 he would
only see the floor in a
blow out win or loss.
Click to expand...
Until yesterday when has Santos been one of the 1st players off the bench?

I was surprised to see him play so much yesterday, particularly during crunch time, because he’s hardly played this year. But I’m sure foul trouble had something to do with that, along with few other player options.
 
I’m glad I pay the $10 and don’t have to come over here often….

Was Nate Santos great? No. But like @PittPharm2002 said he has size and can defend 3 positions.

Do you guys know who had the best +- yesterday? Nate Santos at +15
 
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snaphook297 said:
By now we all know he just cant shoot . 1-5 from
The field . Really a nonentity ..The bench is thin and having mr. Personal reasons taking up roster spot with no action rubs salt in the wound
Click to expand...
Why not? We were in foul trouble and need to find a bench. Other than shooting, Nate played very well while on there. He had 5 rebounds, played really good defense and the team played well and made runs while he was on the floor.
 
Vader_Storm said:
There has been a lot of criticism on Nate Santos shooting ability. And its obvious he cant make them yet in important moments over the course of a full game. I report what I see and the stats that I get from high school and in AAU, I watch a lot of games, I finally just watched a full game from Marlon Barnes to see what the heck is going on with Brush this year. And I know the problems now with them. Anyway,

There are plenty of players that struggle in D1 when the actual lights are on and ultimately bust, you can take a hard look at Derrick Lively for example at Duke right now, a Top 3 player in the country and 5 star that is struggling to come anywhere close to the hype. There are plenty of examples of this in the high school ranks of highly ranked players every single year where guys struggle and / or bust.



Ive been on record saying the bench should have been shortened already. Virginia outscored Pitt by 6 points in less than 2 minutes the very second Santos came on the floor. I criticized Capel heavily for this during and after the Virginia game.



With all that said.... Santos was +15 in the box score yesterday against Clemson, the highest of any Pitt player on the team and he rebounded the ball well. So Capel had some reason to play him, despite what I and others have thought on Nate Santos. No, he is not shooting well and hasn't shot it well. That is painfully obvious. What is also obvious, is that he has 5 total free throw attempts and 22 three point attempts for the entire season. These are very small sample sizes that could change quickly.


Again, with all that said, I would play the starters as much as possible without burning guys out. And I have quite a bit of trust in the twins at this point.
Click to expand...
Vandy went on a big run as soon as Santos got into the game as well. He should not get any PT.
 
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Chescat said:
Help!....I've tried to fix



it but when I do it comes



out all scattershot. Not



sure what to



do.
Click to expand...
Chescat said:
Ok, I'll give you that. The
reason he was brought
here was because he
supposedly was a
shooter. If you just look
at his game, not including
shooting, does he strike
you as an ACC player?
Not only that, but one
of the first players off the
bench? He's actually in
the rotation. If he were
#10-13 I'd be ok with him.
If he were 10-13 he would
only see the floor in a
blow out win or loss.
Click to expand...

Santos reminds me of Yuri Demetris. Picture perfect looking shot, recruited to be the "shooter" but cant shoot.
 
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