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Why the Big 12 should be "downgraded"

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Sean Miller Fan

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Oct 30, 2001
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Texas HS football is so good that they can feed almost all of the current Big 12 and support multiple Top 10, 15, 20 teams every year. There is no reasons for the OKSt's and Baylor's to be as good as they are. From a historical rogram and resource standpoint, those "lesser" B12 programs arent any better than your North Carolina, Illinois, Maryland, Nebraska, etc. But Texas produces infinite amounts of good players and those schools keep them home.

I realize bowl season doesn't mean as much anymore but Big 12 schools and Houston beat 4 SEC schools, ND, and Oregon. The "Alliance" + SEC has to work together to freeze out this new Big 12 and downgrade them to G6 status. If they do that, schools from those conferences will more easily be abe to go into Texas and beat out Baylor, OKSt, and TCU for a recruit. The fewer good players going to those places, the more that go to other places. The Alliance + SEC needs a "Texas Strategy" because if they allow them equal access, its going to hurt their bloated leagues as Baylor, TT, Houston, OKSt will just take turns going to the 8 or 12 team playoff.

I mean from a TV market and historical program perspective, think about how bad this league is:

- the "lesser" Oklahoma school
- the 3rd through 6th most popular Texas schools
- the 4th Florida school
- the 2nd Ohio school
- the 2nd Iowa school

The only 2 states they carry are the small states of Kansas and West Virginia.

In the new Big 12, you could have the winner of this East Division playing for a spot in the CFP

WVU
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
UCF

I get that some of those teams have been pretty good recently, but over the long-run, that's a pretty terrible division.

The SMF Plan is for an 8 team playoff with the P4 Conference Championship game winners getting auto bids + the highest ranked G6 champ + 3 at-large.

And money is split mostly evenly between the ACC, SEC, P12, and B10. B12 money would be more in line with the Sun Belt, MWC, American, MAC, CUSA with a bump when they make the CFP.
 
Is it me, or does the proposition of "the Alliance downgrading the Big 12" sound like something Vince McMahon would start off with on Monday Night Raw?

I watched a lot of Big 12 games this year and came away largely unimpressed. You can't really ascertain much from those bowl games. If Texas recruits were that fantastic, Texas wouldn't be the biggest disappointment in college football.
 
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In the current landscape of college football, Ole Tex would have no shot at a QB like Johnny Walker. UCC or Piermont could offer an NIL deal that would blow away what Ole Tex paid Johnny’s grandpa for his fishing lures.
 
TheWerewolfFromTwilight said:
Is it me, or does the proposition of "the Alliance downgrading the Big 12" sound like something Vince McMahon would start off with on Monday Night Raw?

I watched a lot of Big 12 games this year and came away largely unimpressed. You can't really ascertain much from those bowl games. If Texas recruits were that fantastic, Texas wouldn't be the biggest disappointment in college football.
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vince-mc-mahon-new-world-order.gif
 
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I mean, I guess. I know Corral went down but both future B12 teams did win their NY6 bowls. I actually think it should not be downgraded. Until USC reemerges or Clemson gets back to where to where they've been (I know still 10-3 this season) could argue it's as good as the other leagues. Heck, outside of tOSU and Clemson, it's as good as P12, ACC and B1G in terms of competitive teams.
 
I LOVE IT, the whole ideas of historical nobodies taking spots in the CFP from traditional powers, I'd also LOVE teams from small TV footprints making it, anything that goes against the current priorities I am 100% for!
 
JohnnyGossamer said:
I mean, I guess. I know Corral went down but both future B12 teams did win their NY6 bowls. I actually think it should not be downgraded. Until USC reemerges or Clemson gets back to where to where they've been (I know still 10-3 this season) could argue it's as good as the other leagues. Heck, outside of tOSU and Clemson, it's as good as P12, ACC and B1G in terms of competitive teams.
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Yes, its probably the #2 league behind the SEC but the reason it is is the same reason I think it should be downgraded. Too many Texas recruits are staying to play in the Big 12 and will continue to do so. What's the point of Texas and Texas A&M being also-rans in the SEC while Baylor and Houston fight for CFP berths?
 
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HopeandChangeforAntoons said:
In the current landscape of college football, Ole Tex would have no shot at a QB like Johnny Walker. UCC or Piermont could offer an NIL deal that would blow away what Ole Tex paid Johnny’s grandpa for his fishing lures.
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yeah but just like our boy Slovis, Johnny Walker ends up at the same school as his girlfriend.

On a side note, i always wondered if Robert Downey JR got to keep the jeep that was given to him to try and get him to go to Peirmont.
 
I think the conference champion auto bid is the single most important factor for the new playoff process. If it's based only on ranking, Pitt is likely to get screwed because the Big 10 schools are ALWAYS pushed up in rankings, even when they are mediocre. The ACC might have to align with the Big 12 and Pac 12 in order to make the conference champ get an auto bid.

Even 9-3 Clemson got jobbed some in the rankings. They were 4 spots behind Iowa, with the same record. We know that Iowa is very mediocre, but the Big 10 boost inflates their ranking. If there were a 16 team playoff based on ranking, Iowa would be in, while Wake, Clemson and NC State would not, and all had 3 losses.
 
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JohnnyGossamer said:
I mean, I guess. I know Corral went down but both future B12 teams did win their NY6 bowls. I actually think it should not be downgraded. Until USC reemerges or Clemson gets back to where to where they've been (I know still 10-3 this season) could argue it's as good as the other leagues. Heck, outside of tOSU and Clemson, it's as good as P12, ACC and B1G in terms of competitive teams.
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Oklahoma State winning surprised me. Notre Dame was hot garbage at the beginning of the season, but they came on as the season progressed. Still, Oklahoma State shouldn't have even been in an NY6 Bowl. Oklahoma basically beat them... the referee just didn't feel like spoiling the party by throwing a flag on an obvious PI penalty at the end.

Baylor didn't exactly dominate a team without its QB. I do like that Baylor d-line... they have some big ass old-school dudes on it. But their offense seemed to suck. And in both cases, I have no idea who opted out for ND and Ole Miss. I know Oregon (also overrated and defeated by Oklahoma) had some significant opt-outs.

I agree with your notion, though. Outside of the SEC (and the PAC 12 for opposite reasons) there are some perennial big boys in each conference and then a whole lot of mediocrity.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
I mean from a TV market and historical program perspective, think about how bad this league is:

- the "lesser" Oklahoma school
- the 3rd through 6th most popular Texas schools
- the 4th Florida school
- the 2nd Ohio school
- the 2nd Iowa school
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Good! That's what I'd prefer, brand name teams edged out by teams like that, I WANT teams in bad TV markets and with no history to knock out the usual suspects, That would make me MORE interested to watch the CFP
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Texas HS football is so good that they can feed almost all of the current Big 12 and support multiple Top 10, 15, 20 teams every year. There is no reasons for the OKSt's and Baylor's to be as good as they are. From a historical rogram and resource standpoint, those "lesser" B12 programs arent any better than your North Carolina, Illinois, Maryland, Nebraska, etc. But Texas produces infinite amounts of good players and those schools keep them home.

I realize bowl season doesn't mean as much anymore but Big 12 schools and Houston beat 4 SEC schools, ND, and Oregon. The "Alliance" + SEC has to work together to freeze out this new Big 12 and downgrade them to G6 status. If they do that, schools from those conferences will more easily be abe to go into Texas and beat out Baylor, OKSt, and TCU for a recruit. The fewer good players going to those places, the more that go to other places. The Alliance + SEC needs a "Texas Strategy" because if they allow them equal access, its going to hurt their bloated leagues as Baylor, TT, Houston, OKSt will just take turns going to the 8 or 12 team playoff.

I mean from a TV market and historical program perspective, think about how bad this league is:

- the "lesser" Oklahoma school
- the 3rd through 6th most popular Texas schools
- the 4th Florida school
- the 2nd Ohio school
- the 2nd Iowa school

The only 2 states they carry are the small states of Kansas and West Virginia.

In the new Big 12, you could have the winner of this East Division playing for a spot in the CFP

WVU
Cincinnati
Iowa State
Kansas
Kansas State
UCF

I get that some of those teams have been pretty good recently, but over the long-run, that's a pretty terrible division.

The SMF Plan is for an 8 team playoff with the P4 Conference Championship game winners getting auto bids + the highest ranked G6 champ + 3 at-large.

And money is split mostly evenly between the ACC, SEC, P12, and B10. B12 money would be more in line with the Sun Belt, MWC, American, MAC, CUSA with a bump when they make the CFP.
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This is true. My friend at the Steelers game showed me a text from narduzzi that he supports the SMF plan. The alliance will be implementing it shortly..
 
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upj87 said:
how can you root for teams in a sport you hate? odd, but not unexpected, behavior..
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Yeah, I want whatever teams the leaders of the sport and the TV networks prefer to lose. This whole post is just an example of how bad college football sucks, all of the reasons SMF cites for wanting B12 demoted are the exact opposite of what I'd want to see. I want whatever is worse for the powers that rule college football to happen
 
Zeldas Open Roof said:
yeah but just like our boy Slovis, Johnny Walker ends up at the same school as his girlfriend.

On a side note, i always wondered if Robert Downey JR got to keep the jeep that was given to him to try and get him to go to Peirmont.
Click to expand...

Kedon B. Goode? I think RDJ was a PWO at State. They were a package deal.
 
TheWerewolfFromTwilight said:
Is it me, or does the proposition of "the Alliance downgrading the Big 12" sound like something Vince McMahon would start off with on Monday Night Raw?

I watched a lot of Big 12 games this year and came away largely unimpressed. You can't really ascertain much from those bowl games. If Texas recruits were that fantastic, Texas wouldn't be the biggest disappointment in college football.
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Lol at the WWE plot line. I like it.

Texas still puts outs a ton of good players, they just will go to Alabama and LSU instead of Texas.
2020 data:

9933578.jpg
 
MarshallGoldberg said:
Lol at the WWE plot line. I like it.

Texas still puts outs a ton of good players, they just will go to Alabama and LSU instead of Texas.
2020 data:

9933578.jpg
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They need to stop going to

OK St
TCU
Baylor
TT
Houston
Kansas St

Those schools will always get some level of Texas players but if the league was downgraded, more would go to the SEC, B10, ACC, and P12 and the trickle down effects means schools like Pitt might get an additional player or 2 since Ole Miss got a player who normally would have went to TCU so now they cant offer a kid from Georgia we want.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
They need to stop going to

OK St
TCU
Baylor
TT
Houston
Kansas St

Those schools will always get some level of Texas players but if the league was downgraded, more would go to the SEC, B10, ACC, and P12 and the trickle down effects means schools like Pitt might get an additional player or 2 since Ole Miss got a player who normally would have went to TCU so now they cant offer a kid from Georgia we want.
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I'd rather players keep going to all of them if the result is Texas staying down! I don't get why you want to root for the resurrection of Texas? I love watching them spend big money and continuing to suck! I want Texas to keep sucking, I love that Nebraska is garbage now too.
 
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Dointhatrag said:
New Jersey is a surprise to me on that list.
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They've been top 10 for a good number of years now. The NFL is popular there so some kids still play football, and it's a more populated state than people realize. I think this fuels the Rutgers "we're a sleeping giant!" thing...then those kids go to Penn State, Pitt, Michigan, whatever.
 
MarshallGoldberg said:
They've been top 10 for a good number of years now. The NFL is popular there so some kids still play football, and it's a more populated state than people realize. I think this fuels the Rutgers "we're a sleeping giant!" thing...then those kids go to Penn State, Pitt, Michigan, whatever.
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Nebraska in their glory days used to clean up in New Jersey.
 
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Sean Miller Fan said:
They need to stop going to

OK St
TCU
Baylor
TT
Houston
Kansas St

Those schools will always get some level of Texas players but if the league was downgraded, more would go to the SEC, B10, ACC, and P12 and the trickle down effects means schools like Pitt might get an additional player or 2 since Ole Miss got a player who normally would have went to TCU so now they cant offer a kid from Georgia we want.
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look at the recruiting class rankings of those schools. They aren’t exactly pulling Texas’ finest.
 
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Did you see the type of year the ACC had? If Clemson doesn’t get their act together then the ACC is far worse off then the Big 12. Baylor, Oklahoma State and Cincy will all be ranked higher than the Highest ACC school and was before the bowls. BYU and Houston will be right there also.
 
4382 said:
Did you see the type of year the ACC had? If Clemson doesn’t get their act together then the ACC is far worse off then the Big 12. Baylor, Oklahoma State and Cincy will all be ranked higher than the Highest ACC school and was before the bowls. BYU and Houston will be right there also.
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Clemson’s ranking and disrespect this year was baffling to me. They were punished for losing to Georgia even though they almost shut them out. And then losing to Pitt and NCSU is an absolute dagger thanks to idiot pollsters.
 
FSU and Miami need to join Clemson and get going annually. That’s the only way our league will start getting respect.
 
I think based on Bowl and CFP results a pretty strong case could be made after the fact that Baylor was the better and more deserving team (and probably Okie State too) than Michigan from the Big PreTENd this year for a playoff spot.
 
4382 said:
Did you see the type of year the ACC had? If Clemson doesn’t get their act together then the ACC is far worse off then the Big 12. Baylor, Oklahoma State and Cincy will all be ranked higher than the Highest ACC school and was before the bowls. BYU and Houston will be right there also.
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The Big 12 is better than the ACC, probably even without OU and Texas. But again, this is because Texas kids stay close to home to play at OKSt, Baylor, TT, TCU, and soon to be Houston.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
That's the other thing. The B12 TV contract will be closer to the American Athletic than the B10 and SEC and yet, they'll allow them equal access?
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Wait, wait, wait. You’ve clearly stated your position that XII is bound for G6 status. You haven’t stated this as an opinion of yours. This has been deemed a fact, from your perspective, with various posts of P4, etc.

Let’s bet $1 (I’m being serious…that’s an amount that neither of us would flake on) that the XII ends up with equal access to the CFP as ACC and PAC in whatever the future format looks like.

You’ll get the satisfaction of collecting that hoopie buck from your Venmo account, if you’re correct!! Deal?
 
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Sean Miller Fan said:
The Big 12 is better than the ACC, probably even without OU and Texas. But again, this is because Texas kids stay close to home to play at OKSt, Baylor, TT, TCU, and soon to be Houston.
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You’re just now realizing the Texas connection to the rest of the XII, sans OUT?? Ha

I don’t think you realize how many kids play HS football in TX. I think your experiment of trying to “downgrade” XII would prolly fall flat on its face. Too many good players in the state that wouldn’t “not” attend Waco, Ft Worth, Houston, etc. just because they may not have equal access.

I completely understand your rationale though because you’re an ACC (in this case) or PAC fan and you want to try and remain as relevant as you can.

Finally, there’s going to be a lot of posters on here who won’t understand why the upcoming TV deal for XII isn’t so dissimilar from the ACC or PAC. And most importantly, they’ll very clearly understand that there isn’t a Power 4 or Power 5.

There is very very clearly a Power 2.
 
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WVUinColumbus said:
Wait, wait, wait. You’ve clearly stated your position that XII is bound for G6 status. You haven’t stated this as an opinion of yours. This has been deemed a fact, from your perspective, with various posts of P4, etc.

Let’s bet $1 (I’m being serious…that’s an amount that neither of us would flake on) that the XII ends up with equal access to the CFP as ACC and PAC in whatever the future format looks like.

You’ll get the satisfaction of collecting that hoopie buck from your Venmo account, if you’re correct!! Deal?
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I don't think it will happen but it should. The "Alliance" and SEC need to make the Big 12 weaker so they can become stronger. I agree that Baylor, TCU, OKSt, etc will still get good Texas recruits if the league is dropped to G6 status but the perception hit will hurt their recruiting significantly. Not so significantly that they'll be AAC status but at a level where Baylor and OK St arent putting out perennial Top 5ish teams. I cant understand why the "P4" would just sit there and allow OK St, TT, Baylor, TCU, and Houston to load up on Texas kids who could leave the state to improve middle-leve programs in other leagues

Ideally, the best Texas kids would go to Texas, A&M, OU, and bluebloods. The 2nd tier kids would go to your Auburn's, LSU's, Mississippi's, etc but right now they're going to the OK St's.
 
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Fk_Pitt said:
FSU and Miami need to join Clemson and get going annually. That’s the only way our league will start getting respect.
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FSU can’t even afford to fix the bathrooms at the stadium. Financially they are in a really tough spot, which you can’t be to turn the corner.

Miami is probably the best option because of the amount of money they are going to spend. I think their coordinator hires will tell us a lot about what type of money they are throwing around.

UNC is probably the next best option right now after Miami because of finances and recruiting ability. If Brown can do something with these classes, that can be a Top 15 program.
 
4382 said:
Did you see the type of year the ACC had? If Clemson doesn’t get their act together then the ACC is far worse off then the Big 12. Baylor, Oklahoma State and Cincy will all be ranked higher than the Highest ACC school and was before the bowls. BYU and Houston will be right there also.
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Yeah but the ACC didn’t keep those coaches. And we’ve got programs like Duke hiring really respectable guys.

I think the big issue for the ACC in terms of the national landscape is two of our premier program are in such bad holes.

FSU’s roster next year will be two coaching transition classes and a COVID class. And now their instate rivals have added arguably the best recruiter in college football and another one that is regarded as elite. They need classes with elite talent and quickly. But they don’t really have the money right now to go out and hire elite recruiters to do that, whereas the instate schools do.

VT’s roster is Fuente’s classes ranked in the 70s and 40s. I mean they have absolutely no talent on that team. I don’t think VT is the type of school that lends itself to bringing in a ton of instant impact recruits.

Both those schools are looking at a pretty glaring rebuild. And unfortunately for the ACC, they are two of the top tier ceilings in the conference.
 
cashisking884 said:
FSU can’t even afford to fix the bathrooms at the stadium. Financially they are in a really tough spot, which you can’t be to turn the corner.

Miami is probably the best option because of the amount of money they are going to spend. I think their coordinator hires will tell us a lot about what type of money they are throwing around.

UNC is probably the next best option right now after Miami because of finances and recruiting ability. If Brown can do something with these classes, that can be a Top 15 program.
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This speaks volumes as to why the ACC (and also PAC) will never be superior to XII and why it won’t ever encroach on the power/prestige of the B1G or SEC.
 
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