Stop this Henry Davis as an outfielder charade? He is neither an outfielder nor a middle of the order hitter. Now that Rodriguez has proven to be an everyday catcher,the Pirates need to do Davis a favor,and trade him to a team that needs a catcher.
Could the Pirates please —
- Thread starter Evenattheturn
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He’s been up for 2 months. He’s got a ton of potential. Let’s hurry up and dump him.
Even if Endy (rightfully) solidifies his role as everyday catcher, it doesn’t mean you just ship the guy out who you drafted first overall two years ago. Can be a Carlos Santana role when he was with Cleveland- little bit of catcher, little bit of 1B, little bit of DH.
You also can’t trade him now because you have to believe his stock will continue to rise and could be a valuable trade piece in a year or two when this team is contending. He could allow us to pursue an “all-in” splash move while not leaving us exposed at other positions. Right now, it’s time for us to “hold ‘em”…
You also can’t trade him now because you have to believe his stock will continue to rise and could be a valuable trade piece in a year or two when this team is contending. He could allow us to pursue an “all-in” splash move while not leaving us exposed at other positions. Right now, it’s time for us to “hold ‘em”…
The problem with putting him at 1st base, is that he’s never played there either, and you’re taking away his best defensive asset which is that cannon on his arm.
I've seen Endy basically get picked off twice (he was safe the first time only because the tag sucked; should have been out by a foot) while not even being the lead runner. You rarely even see a pitcher try to do that, so he must come with a scouting report that says "total airhead on the bases" for that to happen twice in like a week.
As for Davis, Designated At-batter, maybe? Can't exactly call him a hitter yet. Was he thought to be the best hitter in the draft, or was his value that he was a good hitter for being a catcher? If it's the latter, it's frustrating (but exactly what you'd expect from this organization) to know we potentially took a positive WAR catcher and made him a negative WAR right fielder.
As for Davis, Designated At-batter, maybe? Can't exactly call him a hitter yet. Was he thought to be the best hitter in the draft, or was his value that he was a good hitter for being a catcher? If it's the latter, it's frustrating (but exactly what you'd expect from this organization) to know we potentially took a positive WAR catcher and made him a negative WAR right fielder.
In Tee ball and little league, you "hide" your worst/least athletic kid out in RF for his designated 2 innings.
Are the Pirates trying the same tactic with Davis??
He IS a butcher out there.
Playing 1B presupposes that he can actually catch a ground ball or could handle the footwork required to play effectively there.
I've heard that the big thing holding him back from catching is framing, which will be eliminated when the league goes to electronic ball strike calls.
If he can't handle calling pitches, let the coaches do it and relay the call in.
I agree Endy is your everyday catcher. He'll learn how to run the bases up here.
Davis has hit a little bit, but he isn't exactly lighting it up. His ability to hit ML sliders and breaking balls is Cerano like.
Maybe the Pirates should get JoBu on the case??
Are the Pirates trying the same tactic with Davis??
He IS a butcher out there.
Playing 1B presupposes that he can actually catch a ground ball or could handle the footwork required to play effectively there.
I've heard that the big thing holding him back from catching is framing, which will be eliminated when the league goes to electronic ball strike calls.
If he can't handle calling pitches, let the coaches do it and relay the call in.
I agree Endy is your everyday catcher. He'll learn how to run the bases up here.
Davis has hit a little bit, but he isn't exactly lighting it up. His ability to hit ML sliders and breaking balls is Cerano like.
Maybe the Pirates should get JoBu on the case??
geez, i think you guys are crazy, i love him at RF and he's got a ton of power. maybe not a 30 HR guy but dude hits the be-jesus out off the ball, great exit velocity.. Reminds me of a right handed young Brian Giles.
let Endy be your catcher currently and in the future.
let Endy be your catcher currently and in the future.
Good point on the pitch framing thing if that’s the main concern with him. Sounds weird though. Framing seems like a pretty easy thing to be able to do.
That being said, Henry Davis was the first overall pick because he was a catcher! If you play him anywhere else, he’s not first overall pick worthy.
He makes Gregori Polanco look like Clemente out there.
i feel like people over value "framing". How many times a game does a catcher actually catch a ball outside and frame it back in to get the strike? The ump makes the calls based on what he thinks is a strike or ball, not where the catcher's glove is after the catch..
Did you love the overrun and later the drop that cost them game two? Do you think Suwinski is the CF? Has he set the Pirates strikeout record yet?
anything else you are upset about and want to get off your chest?
the drop that cost them the game? he was full spring sliding in and it hit off his glove, scored one run but we were still winning.. Cost us the game??? IT wasnt even ruled an error
didnt know this thread was talking about suwinsky and I dont remember ever saying he's our CF of the future. remind me when i said that..
He is NOT an outfielder-watch game 2 yesterday. Also,what to do with Suwinski-almost an automatic strikeout. Palacios did not play yesterday-why? He should be the everyday RF.
Guess you have to bring it up with the Bucco brass because that's their issue.
Framing and pitch calling. Pretty obvious there are issues because he's caught like 1 inning since being called up.
Suwinski is in a horrible slump, and at this point you have to wonder.
He's always struggled against lefties, but he hasn't hit a HR in a month and a half and that is his calling card.
Davis is a butcher in RF. Anyone with eyes can see that. But they have to put him somewhere. They have a vested interest in his success.
he's fine as an outfielder and has an above average arm. baseball fans over value the defense needed at first base and right field, the days of clemente are over. it's a short right field wall, be an athlete, have a good arm and you are fine..
no clue why you keep bringing up suwinski in a henry davis thread..
Call Jim Leyland and ask him,or maybe Danny Murtaugh
im having dinner with both tonight so i will bring it up and tell you what they think. anyone else on the roster not playing well enough for you that i can also discuss with them?
Man Suwinski's slumps are SLUMPS!!! Epic.
absolute killer that he didnt put the ball in play in the 10th inning last night. you got that lead off guy at 2nd base, you HAVE to move him over at worst..
i cant remember if the pitcher was lefty or righty but that's a situation where they should have pinch hit for him. yeah, i know he has that "walk off game winning" angle but dude like you said, is in a bad bad slump..
i honestly dont know what you do with him. i do like him but in a platoon situation. not even worth playing him at all against lefties.
It was a lefty.
Any time he's up in a crucial situation late, the opposing manager is going to bring in a left handed pitcher to face him.
He's absolutely helpless against lefties and is not a power threat against them.
He needs to figure that out. They're letting him play so he gets experience and sees them, but so far, he isn't getting it.
He's hitting .208 against left-handed pitchers and .212 against right-handed pitchers. I get that batting average is only one component, but do we ever just get to a point where we say he flat out sucks? Cause I think I'm at that point.
At the very least, the dude should be nothing more than a bench guy. He's going to start giving umpires laryngitis from yelling "strike three!" so often.
I don't have much faith in the Pirates brass, but you have to figure they gave up on him catching because he was hopeless at it. Might as well let him play RF rest of the year and see if he gets any better. You don't want to move your rookie #1 overall pick to DH this early.
I'd probably send him to the Arizona Fall league to work on learning first base though.
I'd probably send him to the Arizona Fall league to work on learning first base though.
it's baseball purists' thinking its still 1973 where "framing" was an under the radar skill. to even talk about this skill now likes it's relevant makes me laugh.
a catcher catching a ball and moving his glove into strike zone is something learned at the little league level.. I always had to laugh when Pirates GM would talk about Hedges' framing skill as a reason he is playing.
it's like when a girl's best trait is as "good personality", you know she's ugly as hell..
I know you hate to read, but here is a pretty good explanation about why in this "Analytics is King" age in MLB, framing is king for catchers.
Of course if they go to electronic strike calling all of this goes out the window, and Henry Davis suddenly becomes Johnny Bench.
Read it if you want, but it's all spelled out in black and white from a MLB perspective. It isn't long, and reads like Dick and Jane, so you'd probably understand it.
https://probaseballinsider.com/how-...about-framing-pro-tips-for-baseball-catchers/
Of course if they go to electronic strike calling all of this goes out the window, and Henry Davis suddenly becomes Johnny Bench.
Read it if you want, but it's all spelled out in black and white from a MLB perspective. It isn't long, and reads like Dick and Jane, so you'd probably understand it.
https://probaseballinsider.com/how-...about-framing-pro-tips-for-baseball-catchers/
I thought you were going to say "Could the Pirates please--in extra innings, bunt the runner on 2nd over to 3rd?"
umps arent letting the location of the catcher's glove after it's caught dictate the call. sorry, it's not happening. stopping the ball and throwing out runners is more important, despite what some guy crunching numbers in the basement of his parents' house says..
OK, you're right.
Explains why Henry Davis has caught 1 inning in 2 months in the majors.
And that guy was a former ML catcher, not sure he was in his parent's basement.
And catchers most certainly buy a number of borderline calls, just like they can cost the pitcher a call by not being smooth with the glove.
It is the one of the main reasons that the electronic strike zone is being piloted in the minor leagues and will soon be adopted by MLB.
im ready for the Electronic strike zone. 5 years ago, i'd have hated it but the time has come..
Yep. At least there would be consistency. No more fishing for where this particular ump is calling strikes, and the hitter would also know where he stood.
No brainer.
You know you can give some sympathy to umpires, but they are some of the most arrogant, antagonistic people.
Ridiculous. He's been playing the outfield for two months. He'll get better.
I was looking at both Pirates and Mets lineups tonight. 18 guys. ONE guy is batting over .260 (Reynolds at .270).
Aside from the pitcher, it used to be most lineups had one batter below .260.
Aside from the pitcher, it used to be most lineups had one batter below .260.
yeah, the drops in averages now to only 15 years ago is staggering. it's across the league too. obviously the pirates are the epitome but again, a .300 hitter now is tony gwynn in his prime when in the late 90s, it was good but far from special.
I can't imagine anyone could watch any amount of baseball and not know, and I don't mean think, I mean know, that catchers are buying calls on a pretty regular basis. Or at least the good ones do.
If you want to argue that that's just proof that the general state of umpiring, at least the calling of balls and strikes, isn't very good right now you'll get no argument from me. But every team in baseball, and I do mean literally every single one, thinks that there are some catchers who are good at "stealing" strikes, and some catchers who do just the opposite.
watch pirates most nights and there is no bullying down by hedges, endy or opposing catchers. stop it with this silliness. the umps arent being bullied or fooled by a catcher moving his glove into the strike zone..
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