OT: Penguins

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Check out the insane goals against numbers in the NHL the year Gretsky scored 92. It's practically a different sport.
81/82
Minnesota North Stars 288
Winnipeg Jets* 332
St. Louis Blues* 349
Chicago Black Hawks 363
Toronto Maple Leafs 380
Detroit Red Wings 351
Edmonton Oilers* 295
Vancouver Canucks* 286
Calgary Flames* 345
Los Angeles Kings* 369
Colorado Rockies 362
Montreal Canadiens* 223
Boston Bruins* 285
Buffalo Sabres* 273
Quebec Nordiques* 345
Hartford Whalers 351
New York Islanders* 250
New York Rangers* 306
Philadelphia Flyers* 326
Pittsburgh Penguins* 337
Washington Capitals 338

18/19
Tampa Bay Lightning* 222
Boston Bruins* 215
Toronto Maple Leafs* 251
Montreal Canadiens 236
Florida Panthers 280
Buffalo Sabres 271
Detroit Red Wings 277
Ottawa Senators 302
Washington Capitals* 249
New York Islanders* 196
Pittsburgh Penguins* 241
Carolina Hurricanes* 223
Columbus Blue Jackets 232
Philadelphia Flyers 281
New York Rangers 272
New Jersey Devils 275
Nashville Predators* 214
Winnipeg Jets* 272
St. Louis Blues* 223
Dallas Stars* 202
Colorado Avalanche* 260
Chicago Blackhawks 292
Minnesota Wild 237
Calgary Flames* 227
San Jose Sharks* 261
Vegas Golden Knights* 230
Arizona Coyotes 223
Vancouver Canucks 254
Anaheim Ducks 251
Edmonton Oilers 274
Los Angeles Kings 263

The Canadians, Buffalo, Boston, & NYI were the only good defensive squads in the whole League in 82. It's really hard to compare the eras.

Oh, it’s a COMPLETELY different sport now to what it was back then.

It’s more than even just the total goals against.

So much of analytics is driven by puck possession numbers and puck possession wasn’t even a valued consideration back in 1982. That did not come until after the Europeans arrived.

There were a few outliers in that regard. Roger Nielsen immediately springs to mind and really, Herb Brooks does too. He wasn’t in the NHL just yet, but he was preaching puck possession at the NCAA level as far back as the mid-70s.

However, the vast majority of the hockey world looked at the sport like a bubble hockey table at that time. The right handed shots played on the right wing, while the left-handed shots played on the left wing.

When you gained the redline, if you did not have an immediate path to the goaltender, you dumped the puck into the corner and chased after it.

Also, the whole concept of playing a system at that time would have been seen as being completely ridiculous. They just played hockey and didn’t really pay any attention to any particular system.

Basically, if you were in the top six forwards you tried to score and if you were in the bottom six you tried to prevent the other team from scoring.

Just a completely different game.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I happened to be in a Primanti Brothers last night grabbing a quick bite to eat after my son’s hockey game. I have no idea why we went to Primanti‘s? I hadn’t done that in years.

However, as we were driving home, my wife said, “Why don’t we stop in the Primanti’s up the road for dinner.” It sounded great and it was. I’m glad we did it.

Anyway, we pop in there and the guy sitting at the table next to us was dressed in a Tampa Bay Lightning hoodie and was passionately rooting for his team.

I am a friendly guy, so I chatted him up and he’s from Tampa and is just a fanatical Lightning fan. He works in Pittsburgh and Ohio every few months as part of the oil and gas industry. Tampa has definitely built itself into a very strong market.

 

[JD1976]

Another listless effort by the Pens. Undisciplined too. 3-1 Ducks and Gibson playing well.

 

[DaveTrout]

Is it just me or has Letang been a train wreck the last few games?

 

[HailToPitt725]

Is it just me or has Letang been a train wreck the last few games?

Wasn’t able to watch tonight. Are his struggles no longer because Jack Johnson is on his line?

 

[HopeandChangeforAntoons]

Oh, it’s a COMPLETELY different sport now to what it was back then.

It’s more than even just the total goals against.

So much of analytics is driven by puck possession numbers and puck possession wasn’t even a valued consideration back in 1982. That did not come until after the Europeans arrived.

There were a few outliers in that regard. Roger Nielsen immediately springs to mind and really, Herb Brooks does too. He wasn’t in the NHL just yet, but he was preaching puck possession at the NCAA level as far back as the mid-70s.

However, the vast majority of the hockey world looked at the sport like a bubble hockey table at that time. The right handed shots played on the right wing, while the left-handed shots played on the left wing.

When you gained the redline, if you did not have an immediate path to the goaltender, you dumped the puck into the corner and chased after it.

Also, the whole concept of playing a system at that time would have been seen as being completely ridiculous. They just played hockey and didn’t really pay any attention to any particular system.

Basically, if you were in the top six forwards you tried to score and if you were in the bottom six you tried to prevent the other team from scoring.

Just a completely different game.

Analytics are part of it but goals were down before front offices embraced that. I think that a deeper talent pool is the biggest factor. That NHL was overwhelmingly Canadian and teams filled out their rosters with guys that were traffic cones. That has changed due to rise in popularity in the US, the fall of the Eastern Bloc, and NHL teams willingness to scout and draft European players.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Analytics are part of it but goals were down before front offices embraced that. I think that a deeper talent pool is the biggest factor. That NHL was overwhelmingly Canadian and teams filled out their rosters with guys that were traffic cones. That has changed due to rise in popularity in the US, the fall of the Eastern Bloc, and NHL teams willingness to scout and draft European players.

Yeah....I posted somewhere above in the thread pages ago, that in like 1980 of the top 25 scorers in the NHL, 24 were Canadian, 1 was US.

Last year 13 were Canadian, 5 were Americans, 3 were Russians, 3 were Finns, 1 was German.

This year, 8 are Canadian, 7 are American, 4 Russian, 2 each from Finland, Sweden and Czech and 1 German.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

OK. 20 more games to go. A lot of time to right this. Better this get this out of the system now rather than later. So there is the positive. Along with help is on the way.

Speed is great. Analytics are great. But still at the end of the day, you got to convert on chances. Here is where Analytics fall short. Over the long haul, it is more predictive. The more chances and possession you have, the more likelihood of scoring goals and winning games. However, in short time span (like a 7 game series), it doesn't matter as much if you aren't converting them. The Pens are in one of those ruts right now and lucky for them, this isn't a Best of 7 game series.

Gamebreakers usually can mitigate these slumps, these bad puck lucks, but not always. I mean Sid's goal/no goal against the Kings is the perfect example of the puck luck the Pens aren't getting, where you saw the Ducks first goal bounce off of a Murray save off of a Pens Dman's leg into the net.

I am hoping this is a minor correction, though I do think it is some things evening out, the injuries have taken their toll and playing with 8/9 level defenseman and bottom pairing in the top pairing hasn't helped. It is not just they have been poor defensively as much as they aren't driving offense and getting the puck to the forwards in good spots to generate offense.

Again, this is hopefully a bump, a bigger bump than I thought, but there is ample time to right the ship and start "playing the right way" and getting confidence and getting hot going into the post season.

As for the current lineup........as above, great they got speed. But do they have scoring? I liked Kahun, he had some real skill. I really don't and didn't like Sheary. He's fast, but he is not as gifted as a scorer as say Rust. And Simon, another analytics darling who at the end of the day, results (ie goals) don't come.

I am still concerned the Pens lack of secondary scoring. They got two seemingly gifted and natural goal scorers in the system, but both are only 18 years old and 2 years away. They really miss Guentzel, because he has the skill and the IQ to match Sid and Geno. I hope he can come back for the 2nd round. Zucker is a great fit, but he was originally supposed to be an addition not just a replacement for a Guentzel.

It is times like this were 87 and 71 need to takeover and instead of always looking to set up guys, they need to shoot more, take it more to the net. And while goaltending hasn't been bad, man, it could use a game where they steal one.

 

[JD1976]

Is it just me or has Letang been a train wreck the last few games?

Letang stunk last night. He can be so maddening, but when he’s good he’s really good. Sort of like Geno.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Letang stunk last night. He can be so maddening, but when he’s good he’s really good. Sort of like Geno.

Letang is brilliant or garbage
There is no grey area

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Letang is brilliant or garbage
There is no grey area

When he is playing 27 minutes like he did last night...that's not good.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

When he is playing 27 minutes like he did last night...that's not good.

In fairness he’s Mostly great

but when he’s bad - oh boy

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I think Justin Schultz is the far bigger problem. He has not played well at all this season and he seems to be losing confidence.

He was our best defenseman in the 2017 playoff run that resulted in the Stanley Cup. We would not have won that cup without him playing tons of minutes at a very high level. Unfortunately, he has picked a really, really bad year to have his worst year since he left Edmonton.

I can’t help but wonder if John Marino’s emergence has messed with Schultz’s confidence on some level?

Whatever the case, Schultz is obviously going to be on their third pair in the playoffs — Marino will be their pairing second right shot guy. However, for this team to get to where it needs to go, Schultz needs to contribute at least some offensively and he’s just not doing that right now.

 

[HailToPitt725]

 

[PittLegends]

Time for Rutherford to retire.
Jarry stinks too.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Is Crosby hurt again? Cause he is completely ineffective right now.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Pretty sure Hornqvist just snapped that man’s ankle in half.

 

[FieldHouse12]

Call it SMF intuition but when the Pens went into first last week I knew they would lose alot , in a row.
They are a team that is comfotable in second.
almost like a race horse.

 

[Pittisit4me]

3 Western Conference bottom feeders. 3 embarrassing losses. Maybe we can have GMJR make a few more trades. This team needs some physicality. We are getting our asses beat night in and night out and every team knows there is no price to pay for taking liberties against the Pens.

First place a little over a week ago. Soon we will be on the outside looking in.

 

[BuffetParrothead]

Yeah...........a few thoughts,

1) Last night's game IMO was nothing more than a throwaway. The Leafs were absolutely desperate, the Pens were due for a clunker, if the Leafs lost, they are really in trouble, especially with the Toronto media crushing them. So the result wasn't that surprising.
2) Agree the moves GMJR makes will be insight into the health status of the Pens injuries. It is disconcerting that Dumoulin and Bjugstad are so behind schedule. But I still think the Pens look for a bottom 6 guy who can and will win face offs, and a depth defenseman like a Hainsey or Dailey who likely wouldn't cost much at all.
3) I would really like to think the Pens injury luck (and in luck I mean bad) has run its course. But you know.....it hasn't.
4) I have seen the Pens win 3 Cups the last 10 years from the 2nd slot in the division with the Caps at 1. So being in 1st or 2nd isn't overwhelming important to me. Though the Pens record on home ice you would like to have it.
5) Last night could also be a positive. Nothing like a good old ass whupping for the coaching staff to reinforce "playing the right way" and a recalibration point.

Great stuff.
One of the adults in the hockey house.

 

[JD1976]

Well I would say the positive is the team heads home to face Ottawa Tuesday, but the way the Pens are playing right now, especially against the bottom feeders of the West, there is no sure thing.

The good news? The last time the Pens had a 6-game skid they won the Cup (2016).

This shall pass. Tampa, St. Louis and Washington recently had downturns too. The cream always rises and with 16 games in the month of March, I’m confident in this group and Sullivan to push the right buttons to finish strong.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Well I would say the positive is the team heads home to face Ottawa Tuesday, but the way the Pens are playing right now, especially against the bottom feeders of the West, there is no sure thing.

The good news? The last time the Pens had a 6-game skid they won the Cup (2016).

This shall pass. Tampa, St. Louis and Washington recently had downturns too. The cream always rises and with 16 games in the month of March, I’m confident in this group and Sullivan to push the right buttons to finish strong.

Yeah but right now they look in such disarray. The lack of scoring chances.......

One interesting thing, Tampa just lost Steven Stamkos for the rest of the year and 1st round of the playoffs. It is amazing to me that the Caps never, ever, seem to suffer a major injury.

Back to the Pens.....Sheary on Sid's line has been an abject disaster. Jared McCann is really pissing me off, he can't score into an ocean.

Goals need to happen.

 

[rmf05]

Sheary went from being very good to very bad the moment he started telling everyone to pronounce his name like it waa a girl's name.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

 

[HailToPitt725]

View embedded media

And Trotman just got reassigned. Good day!

 

[runshadyrun]

And Trotman just got reassigned. Good day!

And Simon out!! Better day

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I expected Dumoulin and Marino to return but Bjugstad is a little bit of a surprise. I still believe he is going to be an important player for them down the stretch. He is a right-handed center – something we don’t otherwise have.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

And Simon out!! Better day

I have been as hard on Simon as anyone....but Sid's line has been totally ineffective since they put Sheary on it over Simon.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I actually thought against Los Angeles they were the best line on the ice for either team. They couldn’t score but they had a lot of opportunities.

Also, Sheary was very noticeable that night. I thought he played like he was shot out of a cannon all night long.

However, against Anaheim and especially against San Jose, that was definitely not the case.

 

[CougarClaws]

I actually thought against Los Angeles they were the best line on the ice for either team. They couldn’t score but they had a lot of opportunities.

Also, Sheary was very noticeable that night. I thought he played like he was shot out of a cannon all night long.

However, against Anaheim and especially against San Jose, that was definitely not the case.

I have been as hard on Simon as anyone....but Sid's line has been totally ineffective since they put Sheary on it over Simon.

The biggest problem with Sid's line has been Sid. And coming off core surgery - that's really no surprise. But it has to change if this season is to mean anything. At least he's talking a good game now, taking ownership is the first step.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Yeah, I think that’s too harsh as well. They said the other night on the Kings broadcast that Crosby had 26 points in his first 18 games back from injury. That’s definitely not my idea of a problem.

He hasn’t played well over the past six games and he’s forcing it. Hell, he said as much the other night after the game.

The turnover against San Jose at their blue line was just a really bad decision by an excellent player trying to make something happen for his team. Unfortunately, hockey can be a very cruel game and when it rains it pours.

I also read yesterday that they have hit nine posts in the last four games.

On that turnover at the Sharks’ blue line, Petterson also happened to be going to the bench to make a change, which left the middle of the ice wide open for a breakaway, on which they scored.

We are also not getting those big saves that we need right now or any sort of depth scoring. Basically, every single thing that could possibly go wrong with this team has – which is why we haven’t recorded a single point in the past six games.

I am not as freaked out about this as others seem to be, but I am concerned about it. I would definitely rather get this all out of my system now than a month from now. However, obviously, it has changed a lot of the trajectory of the season and we have to figure things out sooner than later or we will be sitting at home watching the NHL playoffs wondering what the hell just happened?

Simplify! Simplify! Simplify! If you don’t have a clear play, dump the puck into the corner and chase after it.

Work! Work! Work! Make sure that you are working harder than your opponent and if you can do that the rest of the game will come naturally and things were sort themselves out again in no time. However, we are not the 1987 Edmonton Oilers and I do not want to skate up and down the ice exchanging chances with everyone we play against. Keep the faith and the structure and everything will work out just fine.

 

[CougarClaws]

Yeah, I think that’s too harsh as well. They said the other night on the Kings broadcast that Crosby had 26 points in his first 18 games back from injury. That’s definitely not my idea of a problem.

He hasn’t played well over the past six games and he’s forcing it. Hell, he said as much the other night after the game.

The turnover against San Jose at their blue line was just a really bad decision by an excellent player trying to make something happen for his team. Unfortunately, hockey can be a very cruel game and when it rains it pours.

I also read yesterday that they have hit nine posts in the last four games.

On that turnover at the Sharks’ blue line, Petterson also happened to be going to the bench to make a change, which left the middle of the ice wide open for a breakaway, on which they scored.

We are also not getting those big saves that we need right now or any sort of depth scoring. Basically, every single thing that could possibly go wrong with this team has – which is why we haven’t recorded a single point in the past six games.

I am not as freaked out about this as others seem to be, but I am concerned about it. I would definitely rather get this all out of my system now than a month from now. However, obviously, it has changed a lot of the trajectory of the season and we have to figure things out sooner than later or we will be sitting at home watching the NHL playoffs wondering what the hell just happened?

Simplify! Simplify! Simplify! If you don’t have a clear play, dump the puck into the corner and chase after it.

Work! Work! Work! Make sure that you are working harder than your opponent and if you can do that the rest of the game will come naturally and things were sort themselves out again in no time. However, we are not the 1987 Edmonton Oilers and I do not want to skate up and down the ice exchanging chances with everyone we play against. Keep the faith and the structure and everything will work out just fine.

Look at his defensive & try-hard stats. The definition of not pretty.

These are the Pens we are talking about. Consistent defense is the ONLY thing people should be worrying about. Get that right again, like it was before Sid came back, and this team is capable of anything.

 

[HOF Coach]

 

[HailToPitt725]

90s Night in Pittsburgh tonight.

I’ll take this time to add that we need this as a throwback sweater! Would be perfect if we ever play a road Winter Classic game (perhaps against Columbus at the Shoe?)

 

[CCHS82]

That’s it! Throw the puck at the net and see what happens!

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Look at his defensive & try-hard stats. The definition of not pretty.

These are the Pens we are talking about. Consistent defense is the ONLY thing people should be worrying about. Get that right again, like it was before Sid came back, and this team is capable of anything.

Yeah, I just think it says a lot when we’re talking about the guy’s “try hard” stats and ignoring the fact that he has 26 points in 18 games.

How many players in the history of the sport could average more than a point per game and have that be considered a “down stretch?”

I have no worries whatsoever about Sidney Crosby‘s work ethic.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I’ll take this time to add that we need this as a throwback sweater!

That logo was ugly from the first time that third grader drew it.

 

[HailToPitt725]

That logo was ugly from the first time that third grader drew it.

No doubt, should’ve never gone away from the set we have now. However, there’s something about the set as a whole that I kind of like. Not in a “bring it back full time” type, but a one-time throwback. Heck, the black diagonal “Pittsburgh” jerseys would’ve made for a good throwback tonight.

Maybe it’s the nostalgia in me since that’s my earliest Penguins memories featured that identity.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I think their next third jersey should be maybe the diagonal PITTSBURGH but on a yellow sweater. I think that could look pretty good.

I also always liked those black ones with the silver stripe around them. I’ve always wondered what that would look like with the current logo?

 

[HailToPitt725]

I think their next third jersey should be maybe the diagonal PITTSBURGH but on a yellow sweater. I think that could look pretty good.

I also always liked those black ones with the silver stripe around them. I’ve always wondered what that would look like with the current logo?

It’s not yellow, but how’s this? Would’ve been a nice touch on 90s night.