OT: Pens
- Thread starter mike 301
- Start date
He’s not my great coach, have no strong desire to keep or ditch him. I think what’s more important is getting better players to support and surround the core.
I just didn’t see what was so ‘well stated’ about your reply since there was no answer.
My answer is:
1.It's not my job to find the next coach.
2. Many next great coaches are picked from obscurity non-insiders do not have access to/time to research.
3. The head coaches in the last five years who have won Stanley Cups.
4. The dozens.of coaches who have WON a playoff series in the last five years.
5. It's not any casual fan's job to find the next coach. I allow myself the right to see a coach whose team is winless in the playoffs (series-wise) in the last five years and say it isn't working.
6. If.I see company X file for bankruptcy, am I not allowed to say that management has failed without having to list three specific CEOs who would fix the organization?
7. Since when has it been required to provide a detailed solution to fix a problem by virtue of the fact you simply mentioned a problem exists?
Congrats, we’ll said, unlike the prior post where you said nothing but someone called it well said 😏
Here's the thing. You read all of the post mortems and quotes and comments by the players that "they're close", that "they will learn from this" that "they don't want to play for another team", and Sullivan has similar comments..........Here's the thing fellas, what you are currently doing with the current personnel doesn't work. So you aren't "close". The core is not going to get any younger, meaning not any faster. I am sure players want to stay, and teammates want guys on expiring contracts to stay, but why? It didn't work.
The Pens did just that last summer. Signed all the guys. Kept the gang all here. Even the crappy bottom roster lineup guys. And you miss the playoffs for the first time in 16 years. So now, nothing should be off the table. Including moving on from this coach.
The Pens did just that last summer. Signed all the guys. Kept the gang all here. Even the crappy bottom roster lineup guys. And you miss the playoffs for the first time in 16 years. So now, nothing should be off the table. Including moving on from this coach.
That’s a cool way of saying you have no answer
Your opinion on Sullivan is free - so is an answer to my question
How have you determined Sullivan isn’t a quality coach ?
Because the same method would be used to determine 3 better coaches
Now you have your criteria
Now go through those criteria and make your top 3 list
You’re providing opinions not solutions
No legitimate GM candidate should be willing to have a Head Coach dictated to him. Any Head Coach.
You should succeed or fail based on your own decisions.
I have to woner if Hextall and Burke had much of a say regarding Sullivan. The tail is wagging the dog here, be it the head coach or the star players. Not a recipe for success.
You should succeed or fail based on your own decisions.
I have to woner if Hextall and Burke had much of a say regarding Sullivan. The tail is wagging the dog here, be it the head coach or the star players. Not a recipe for success.
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They were getting bounced in the 1st rd by inferior teams before Hextall came. Hextall is a large part of the problem, but he ain't the only problem. Sullivan has moved into Bylsma land, where he is not willing to change tactics and approach even though his roster has changed simply because of age.
His tactics worked with the proper third and fourth line grinders, and with competent goaltending. They’ve had none of those things for several years; both have been laughable. Is that exclusively the owner/Gm to blame? Is he not working / communicating effectively with them to settle on the right mix? He certainly was /is wrong-headed about needing an enforcer (and for not using the good one that was secured for him a few seasons back). And I can’t believe he hasn’t screamed about the goaltenders for the last three years; Jarry and DeSmith are bowel movements. And the biggest question, did he lobby hard to keep the core at the expense of making the compromises at the other positions? Or was that a decision made above him in order to sell tickets? We just don’t know enough about these details. I’ve no doubt the intrepid Pgh sports media will be all over getting to the bottom of this, though. Actually, no, all they’ll do is show up at PPG in October to feed their faces at the free spread as always…
If you're hoping for reinforcements from the minors, that cupboard is virtually bare. Check out this story:
www.pensburgh.com
WBS Weekly Season Finale: WBS finishes under .500 for first time in 21 years
Two shutouts and a 5-4 overtime loss to Charlotte on Fan Appreciation Night closed out the third worst season in WBS franchise history.
www.pensburgh.com
I’m hoping Poulin, Legare, and/or Hallander can make their way up to the NHL next season. They’re pretty much the only intriguing forward prospects we have. They’ll likely be more like Kuhnhackl and Wilson than Rust and Sheary.If you're hoping for reinforcements from the minors, that cupboard is virtually bare. Check out this story:
WBS Weekly Season Finale: WBS finishes under .500 for first time in 21 years
Two shutouts and a 5-4 overtime loss to Charlotte on Fan Appreciation Night closed out the third worst season in WBS franchise history.
Rutherford's draft history, when he had picks, was worse than Hextall's trade history. Most of the "home grown" Pens were drafted by Ray Shero or.....egads Craig Patrick.
He was in the lineup the last several games of the regular season, although I’m not sure what his numbers were. Looks like they had him playing both center and wing.
They were never on the same team. Smith was gone in 71. Boileau wasn’t hired until 73. You might be confusing Smith with Andy Brown. Brown was bat $hit crazy. Last goalie to not wear a mask. He set what was then the penalty minutes record for a goalie in the 73-74 season.
Thanks you are right. Briere's year was my favorite team. Red Kelly was still the coach. (I did like Boileau though, a fiery guy and had Durbano and Kelly)
1969-70 Pittsburgh Penguins Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com
Check out the latest Pittsburgh Penguins Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com
www.hockey-reference.com
The team played as a team. They truly had each others back.
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Briere was going to be a really good player. Too bad about that accident. You must be a little older than me. I have a vague recollection of losing to the Blues in the playoffs that season. The first season I really have memories of is 72-73.Thanks you are right. Briere's year was my favorite team. Red Kelly was still the coach. (I did like Boileau though, a fiery guy)
1969-70 Pittsburgh Penguins Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts | Hockey-Reference.com
Check out the latest Pittsburgh Penguins Roster, Stats, Injuries, Scores, Results, Shootouts and more on Hockey-Reference.com
The team played as a team. They truly had each others back.
I am 72. I have a vague memory of an American League season Or two.
Pittsburgh Hornets 1966-67 roster and scoring statistics at hockeydb.com
The roster, scoring and goaltender statistics for the 1966-67 Pittsburgh Hornets playing in the AHL.
www.hockeydb.com
I do remember seeing Doug Harvey at the end of his career
Brian Burke is the biggest fraud in the NHL
Like so many others, he keeps getting jobs and keeps doing little with them
deadspin.com
From last night. OMG....imagine the sphincters in Edmonton now as they lost in OT. Still a long series for sure....but will put huge pressure for them to win on Thursday night.
And how about ex Pens draftee and prospect (traded for the great Derek Brassard) saving 52 shots and the Wild winning in 2OT last night!!!
And how about ex Pens draftee and prospect (traded for the great Derek Brassard) saving 52 shots and the Wild winning in 2OT last night!!!
Which is exactly what won the Pens back to back Cups. Hopefully Sullivan is able to get this through to the new GM. It is still inexplicable that after the 2nd Cup the team moved away from that model.
Whoever watched the Penguins the last few years, saw this roster, and saw its weaknesses and then would come to the conclusion, "you know who would fix this?? Mikael Granlund, that's who!!" Mr. Truculance himself, Brian Burke must have been knee deep in a vat of Jameson's when that deal was pulled by Hextall.
Some thoughts about the Pens goaltending .......
- No doubt the Pens need to upgrade their goaltending, it has been one of several significant problems with the team for awhile now ....
- Reports are that FSG likes to use advanced analytics heavily in their evaluations, so the new GM may be looking at advanced stats as part of the evaluations of our goalies ......
- Let's see what some advanced stats are for TJ and CDS over their careers, over the last 3 years (when they have been our two main goalies), and what the two did over this last season all compared to other goalies in the NHL.....
- I'm going to use delta save% (dSV%), Goals Saved Above Expected (GSAx), and High Danger Save % (HDSV%) to see where TJ and CDS stand compared with the other goalies in the NHL .....
dSV% = how the goalies SV% compares to what an average NHL goalies SV% would be if they faced the exact same shots ( a positive dSV% means the goalies SV% is better than an average NHL goalie would do on the same shots).
GSAx = how many goals the goalie gave up compared to how many goals an average NHL goalie would be expected to give up if they faced the exact same shots ( a positive GSAx number means the goalie is giving up fewer goals than an average NHL goalie would give up facing the some shots).
HDSV% = the goalies SV% against high danger shots (the shots that have the highest chance of scoring a goal).
- Over their careers, CDS average rank among other NHL goalies for dSV% = 16th in the league, for GSAx = 20th, and his HDSV% = 0.829 ...... TJ average rank for dSV% = 27th in the league, for GSAx = 27th and his HDSV% = 0.804.
- Over the last 3 years, CDS dSV% = 17th in the league, GSAx = 19th and HDSV% = 0.830 ..... TJ dSV% = 25th in the league, GSAx =25th and HDSV% = 0.809.
- This past regular season, CDS dSV% = 17th in the league, GSAx = 18th and HDSV% = 0.835 ..... TJ dSV% = 25th in the league, GSAx = 25th, and HDSV% = 0.802.
- In the above advanced stats, CDS has outperformed TJ over their careers, over the last 3 years, and this past season ...... In 3 of the 4 years they played together on the Pens, CDS's advanced numbers above are better than TJ ..... I'm NOT saying that CDS should be our #1 goalie, he is a backup (#2) goalie but the advanced stats show he does pretty well in that role ..... the main problem, IMO, is that we need to upgrade our #1 goalie if possible, the problem being that the list of free agent upgrades is limited, we have salary cap constraints, and we have a lack of assets to trade for a top goalie and have so many other needs ...... there are a lot of other advanced goalie stats, but if the new GM indeed uses advanced stats heavily, there should be a significant effort to upgrade their #1 goalie and if they do, then decide if they can also upgrade from CDS as backup goalie which at that point may be somewhat difficult/limited ...... if they can't get an upgrade on their #1 goalie and have to resign TJ, they should do so for a very short "prove it" contract, at a minimal increase in salary and would probably have to replace CDS with a 1B type goalie which may not upgrade the goaltending as much as we would want ...... a big question/variable with TJ is his injury history and whether he can get to 100% health for a long period or whether these injuries are going to be chronic and affect his play ..... obviously input from the medical staff will be needed.
- One thing that the advanced stats imply about TJ is that he is not that good at stopping High Danger shots, the ones that produce the highest chance of a goal ..... you would have to study video to see why he seems to have problems there ..... is it poor angles/positioning, poor goalie movement, problems with certain type of saves, problems with rebound control, etc. ..... again advanced stats might indicate a problem and you would need to look at video to see what is causing the problem and what can be done about it.
- What is in the pipeline goalie wise for the Pens ? .......
Filip Lindberg (24y/o) after a great college career with UMass, has had 2 injury filled seasons with WBS and hasn't played that much to tell what kind of a prospect he really is.
Taylor Gauthier (22y/o) an undrafted free agent in his first year between Wheeling and WBS is a prospect but not clear how good of a prospect or if he will ever make it to the NHL at this point.
Dustin Tokarsky .... AHL player at this point.
Joel Bloomqvist (21y/o, 2nd round draft pick 2020) ...... played in highest pro league in Finland and recently signed to entry level contract by Pens (played one game with WBS at end of current season) ...... he is the Pens top goalie prospect and is very well thought of but not ready for NHL yet ..... we'll see how he now develops in North America but he could be Pens goalie of future .... too early to tell ...... one problem, Blomqvist had two concussions this past season in Finland, one in October and another in December that kept him out until mid-March ...... just our luck ...... should know over the next couple years if he is high level prospect or not.
Sergei Murashov (just turned 19, 4th round draft pick 2022) from Russia, played in what sounds like Russian minor league but played one game in KHL and may well play in KHL next season .... listed at 6'1", 170 pounds last year ...... said to be technically sound, athletic, moves well, good puck handling, right hand catcher ...... I think the Pens previous regime felt he was a pretty decent prospect but way to early to tell how he will develop and whether he will make it to North America, etc.
- No doubt the Pens need to upgrade their goaltending, it has been one of several significant problems with the team for awhile now ....
- Reports are that FSG likes to use advanced analytics heavily in their evaluations, so the new GM may be looking at advanced stats as part of the evaluations of our goalies ......
- Let's see what some advanced stats are for TJ and CDS over their careers, over the last 3 years (when they have been our two main goalies), and what the two did over this last season all compared to other goalies in the NHL.....
- I'm going to use delta save% (dSV%), Goals Saved Above Expected (GSAx), and High Danger Save % (HDSV%) to see where TJ and CDS stand compared with the other goalies in the NHL .....
dSV% = how the goalies SV% compares to what an average NHL goalies SV% would be if they faced the exact same shots ( a positive dSV% means the goalies SV% is better than an average NHL goalie would do on the same shots).
GSAx = how many goals the goalie gave up compared to how many goals an average NHL goalie would be expected to give up if they faced the exact same shots ( a positive GSAx number means the goalie is giving up fewer goals than an average NHL goalie would give up facing the some shots).
HDSV% = the goalies SV% against high danger shots (the shots that have the highest chance of scoring a goal).
- Over their careers, CDS average rank among other NHL goalies for dSV% = 16th in the league, for GSAx = 20th, and his HDSV% = 0.829 ...... TJ average rank for dSV% = 27th in the league, for GSAx = 27th and his HDSV% = 0.804.
- Over the last 3 years, CDS dSV% = 17th in the league, GSAx = 19th and HDSV% = 0.830 ..... TJ dSV% = 25th in the league, GSAx =25th and HDSV% = 0.809.
- This past regular season, CDS dSV% = 17th in the league, GSAx = 18th and HDSV% = 0.835 ..... TJ dSV% = 25th in the league, GSAx = 25th, and HDSV% = 0.802.
- In the above advanced stats, CDS has outperformed TJ over their careers, over the last 3 years, and this past season ...... In 3 of the 4 years they played together on the Pens, CDS's advanced numbers above are better than TJ ..... I'm NOT saying that CDS should be our #1 goalie, he is a backup (#2) goalie but the advanced stats show he does pretty well in that role ..... the main problem, IMO, is that we need to upgrade our #1 goalie if possible, the problem being that the list of free agent upgrades is limited, we have salary cap constraints, and we have a lack of assets to trade for a top goalie and have so many other needs ...... there are a lot of other advanced goalie stats, but if the new GM indeed uses advanced stats heavily, there should be a significant effort to upgrade their #1 goalie and if they do, then decide if they can also upgrade from CDS as backup goalie which at that point may be somewhat difficult/limited ...... if they can't get an upgrade on their #1 goalie and have to resign TJ, they should do so for a very short "prove it" contract, at a minimal increase in salary and would probably have to replace CDS with a 1B type goalie which may not upgrade the goaltending as much as we would want ...... a big question/variable with TJ is his injury history and whether he can get to 100% health for a long period or whether these injuries are going to be chronic and affect his play ..... obviously input from the medical staff will be needed.
- One thing that the advanced stats imply about TJ is that he is not that good at stopping High Danger shots, the ones that produce the highest chance of a goal ..... you would have to study video to see why he seems to have problems there ..... is it poor angles/positioning, poor goalie movement, problems with certain type of saves, problems with rebound control, etc. ..... again advanced stats might indicate a problem and you would need to look at video to see what is causing the problem and what can be done about it.
- What is in the pipeline goalie wise for the Pens ? .......
Filip Lindberg (24y/o) after a great college career with UMass, has had 2 injury filled seasons with WBS and hasn't played that much to tell what kind of a prospect he really is.
Taylor Gauthier (22y/o) an undrafted free agent in his first year between Wheeling and WBS is a prospect but not clear how good of a prospect or if he will ever make it to the NHL at this point.
Dustin Tokarsky .... AHL player at this point.
Joel Bloomqvist (21y/o, 2nd round draft pick 2020) ...... played in highest pro league in Finland and recently signed to entry level contract by Pens (played one game with WBS at end of current season) ...... he is the Pens top goalie prospect and is very well thought of but not ready for NHL yet ..... we'll see how he now develops in North America but he could be Pens goalie of future .... too early to tell ...... one problem, Blomqvist had two concussions this past season in Finland, one in October and another in December that kept him out until mid-March ...... just our luck ...... should know over the next couple years if he is high level prospect or not.
Sergei Murashov (just turned 19, 4th round draft pick 2022) from Russia, played in what sounds like Russian minor league but played one game in KHL and may well play in KHL next season .... listed at 6'1", 170 pounds last year ...... said to be technically sound, athletic, moves well, good puck handling, right hand catcher ...... I think the Pens previous regime felt he was a pretty decent prospect but way to early to tell how he will develop and whether he will make it to North America, etc.
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It all started going downhill after they traded for Reeves and then traded for Brassard instead of JG Pageau (really liked the idea of him coming here; thought he would’ve been perfect for what we needed). I agree that they never should’ve gotten away from that game.
I had no problem with Rutherford "going for it" (I am really hard on Jim Rutherford and think his last 3 years as a Pens GM was an "F" grade and Mario and crew should have kicked him upstairs 2 years before he resigned).
Anyways, I understand "going for it". But I thought the following and has been proven to be true:
1) Rutherford would continue to double down on bad moves that didn't work.
2) OVERPAID!!! You gave up a #1 and Ian Cole for Derek Brassard. Why did you have to include Filip Gustavsson. When you reaquired Kasperi Kapanen, the Leafs were looking to dump him for salary cap reasons. So why include a #1 pick along with prospect Hollander?? Same goes for Jason Zucker. The Wild was looking to shed salary cap of Zucker. Why did you need to include BOTH a #1 and Calen Addison in that deal?? And finally Ryan Reaves. A career 4th liner with some unique skills. He traded Oskar Sundquist who turned out to be a competent 3rd liner on a Stanley Cup winner and a #1.
Those were every bit as horrible of deals as Mikael Grandlund. All of the capital spent trying to find bottom 6 guys, you had one in Sundquist. Gustavsson was a future goalie and all of those #1's. Now they may have never amounted to more than Sammy Poulin, but they were chips/assets that could have turned into other assets to help your team. Every trade Rutherford made from 2018 was an overpayment chasing and doubling down on a mistake.
Agree on everything except Reaves. I wonder how many games lost to injury Reaves would have prevented?
I wonder how many listless efforts Reaves could have changed?
The thing about Reaves was the GM and HC not being on the same page!
If the coach wasn't going to use him in his primary role of pretector, then why bring him on board in the first place??
Don't these guys talk?? Who's the boss?? If Reaves was going to be benched, why was he acquired with his role being known by everyone not named Sullivan????
Just total dysfunction in the organization there. Probably a symptom of deeper problems.
In any event all the sick chickens from the past several years have come home to roost!
Who is the boss indeed?
Apparently the guy who is the biggest impediment to change?
Good luck with that!
The puzzling thing about Reaves was he actually had hockey talent and abilities. He could skate and was a more than competent 3rd or 4th line player.
Much better than some of the stiffs they rolled out after he was given away for virtually nothing!
Kind of comical, actually.
