Star players dictate their coach in the NHL
And vise-versa. The NHL's leadership award is named after a guy who hated his coach so much that he helped tank a season to get him fired.
Because that's what real leaders in the NHL do.
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Star players dictate their coach in the NHL
No, I'm not missing that. Not sure anyone could miss that, it was so obvious.You are missing the problem with the Reaves situation. The GM paid a steep price to acquire him and Sullivan had no intention to use him.
He was then dealt away for peanuts.
The problem there is why waste the effort and the talent to acquire a guy your coach has no intention to utilize??
That is a dysfunctional organization.
Most organizations would fire a coach that resistant to change and defiant.
That is what "should" have happened.
The fact that did not happen speaks to the unhealthy influence referenced earlier in this thread. (Ownership, head coach and star player)
It continues today.
Then how about now? Those sins have not gone away.You do need to consider that at the time it occurred, they were the 2 time defending champions. Sullivan wasn't going to be fired at that time.
YepYou are missing the problem with the Reaves situation. The GM paid a steep price to acquire him and Sullivan had no intention to use him.
He was then dealt away for peanuts.
The problem there is why waste the effort and the talent to acquire a guy your coach has no intention to utilize??
That is a dysfunctional organization.
I am of the opinion that Sid and company also kind of led a tanking to get Mike Johnston fired. Which...you can criticize of course, but also Johnston was a really bad hire.And vise-versa. The NHL's leadership award is named after a guy who hated his coach so much that he helped tank a season to get him fired.
Because that's what real leaders in the NHL do.
If he's fired for under achieving in the playoffs and regular season this year, I'm all for it. If he's fired for something that happened 5 years ago between him and a GM who's been gone for 2 years, well, to me that just shows that's there is still some sort of discord in the management of the Pens.Then how about now? Those sins have not gone away.
How about telling us what you would do after most of your proposed moves fall flat. There's no benefit to buying out Carter, unless you just want to cause yourself further cap hell, as he signed an over 35 contract. The only way they're moving Granlund and Petry before the year starts is if they pay a team with draft picks to take them. More likely they'll hope one shows a pulse and they can make a move at the deadline when teams sometimes do stupid things.Here's what I would do if I am the Pens.
Forwards:
1) Sid keep and start looking at long term extension
2) Malkin keep. Contract is actually not bad.
3) Rackell Keep
4) Guentzel. I would look to move. He has one more year, so you are either going to pay him $7-8 per for 5-6 years. Sorry. While none of this is his fault, he is a chip to use to make this team better overall.
5) Rust. I hated this contract. I would look to see if he can be moved. If there is a trade to be made. Or if he starts out hot, look to move him. He will be 31 and the Pens are on the hook for until 28.
6) Carter. You can't move him. Buy him out. Sure, it will cost salary, but take him away from Sully who seems to refuse to sit him.
7) Granlund Obviously attempt to move but who wants him at that price?
Tender the 3 RFA's, O'Connor, Poehling and Nylander
Don't resign Hanton
Defense:
1) Keep Letang. While maybe too long, his AAV or $6.1 is reasonable.
2) Petry. I would eat salary and try to move him. Horrible acquisition
3) Petterson. Was the best overall and his $4 mill cap hit is reasonable.
4) Ruuta. Not big on him either, but he is relatively cheap.
5) UFA's to be Kulikov and Dumoulin BuhBye.
6) PJO. I would see if there is a trade to be made.
Goalies:
1) If Jarry signs a 1 year "Prove it deal" that is reasonable, then fine. If not, let him walk. If you do sign him, you can't go with DeSmith
2) DeSmith I would see if I can move him
3) Sign a veteran goalie. Most goalies are alot like relief pitchers, they come and go constantly.
Probably with these moves, you have ~$25 million of cap room to fill out the roster.
Package one of the stiffs with Guentzel and pay a portion of their salary, ie Granlund.How about telling us what you would do after most of your proposed moves fall flat. There's no benefit to buying out Carter, unless you just want to cause yourself further cap hell, as he signed an over 35 contract. The only way they're moving Granlund and Petry before the year starts is if they pay a team with draft picks to take them. More likely they'll hope one shows a pulse and they can make a move at the deadline when teams sometimes do stupid things.
If they plan to try and complete next year, I think the best option is to move Guentzel and try to become a deeper team. This would likely require them to jettison Sullivan.
I'm starting to think they should just mimic what the hawks did this season.
Package one of the stiffs with Guentzel and pay a portion of their salary, ie Granlund.
There are creative ways to deal with these kind of problems.
After all, THEY were stupid enough to make these deals, who's to say there isn't another sucker out there somewhere?
That's tough. But look what Billy Guerin did when he inherited the horrific Parise and Suter contracts. He bought them out, took the hit. In fact they are still paying ~$14.5 million in dead cap space.Nice. Let's play that game. What do you want in return - players or picks/prospects? Are you trying to compete in 2023-24 or are you going into rebuild mode?
You always try to compete. Every team in the NHL is competing, just some are better positioned than others.Nice. Let's play that game. What do you want in return - players or picks/prospects? Are you trying to compete in 2023-24 or are you going into rebuild mode?
That's tough. But look what Billy Guerin did when he inherited the horrific Parise and Suter contracts. He bought them out, took the hit. In fact they are still paying ~$14.5 million in dead cap space.
This is going to be tough regardless. But to just approach the same lineup and same coach that hasn't won a playoff series since no one has even heard of COVID it is insane to do it all over again.
Exactly. If Hextall never gave those contracts to Carter and Kapanen, they could have Vinny Troeschek. They shouldn't have given Casey DeSmith that contract and signed a veteran goalie to support Jarry. The Marino and Petry trades are disasters. Hextall took a small appliance fire and basically dumped jet fuel on it.Last year's offseason doomed the pens for two years. Petry. Ruuta and a host of other bad deals in addition to Granlund at the deadline means that you are now treading water. Move what you can this summer and wait til the deadline to get rid of those you can't in June. I think this team will keep its old core but needs to move its middle-aged players. It needs to get young and fast, and they can't do that in one offseason. Guentzel and Rust will have to go one way or another. Petersson, too. You can't rebuild by giving away picks to shed salary. Then you have nothing let to build with.
Packaging a good player with a bad one may be the only way to accelerate the rebuild/retool.
Would you be saying the same thing if Bonino and Kulikov had not gotten hurt the minute they were traded for and the Pens would have easily made the playoffs?Exactly. If Hextall never gave those contracts to Carter and Kapanen, they could have Vinny Troeschek. They shouldn't have given Casey DeSmith that contract and signed a veteran goalie to support Jarry. The Marino and Petry trades are disasters. Hextall took a small appliance fire and basically dumped jet fuel on it.
You always try to compete. Every team in the NHL is competing, just some are better positioned than others.
Look, the Pens have made this bed. They made the decision to keep the band together. The core is here for the near future, period.
If they could bag a steady goalie, it would be a huge bandaid.
This isn't the first time the Penguins have faced this dilemma. And it happens to every franchise in every sport when they have aging superstars.
They can compete with a different style. It would be a style they purportedly hate, a boring, stand em up, plodding "system" style. And Sullivan isn't the guy to run that.
The worst thing they can do is nothing. That just delays the inevitable.
Do you actually believe Hextall had much of a say in the big decisions? I surely don't.Always try to compete? If you're talking about the players on the ice, I agree, if not, I offer you the 83 Pens.
Will be interesting to see if Sullivan is retained, I wonder if they could get a draft pick for him? Add his extension to list of Hextall's bad moves.
I mean.....would they have been worth 2 more points??? The Pens were a sinking ship. The worst thing that happened is I believe they won 4 in a row right before the trade deadline.Would you be saying the same thing if Bonino and Kulikov had not gotten hurt the minute they were traded for and the Pens would have easily made the playoffs?
What is hilarious......is the Pens looked just like that against the Hawks and Jackets who should have been playing Roberto Romano in goal.Always try to compete? If you're talking about the players on the ice, I agree, if not, I offer you the 83 Pens.
Will be interesting to see if Sullivan is retained, I wonder if they could get a draft pick for him? Add his extension to list of Hextall's bad moves.
The trouble for the Pens, even though they will have cap room, it is very rare that good players in their prime get to the open market. Hockey players are the antithesis of the other sports it seems, they don't want to hit free agency. Most UFA's (almost all) who are worth something are over 30, mostly over 32. So now you give long term to these guys and you are buried when they are the north side of 35.
Here are some UFA's, Kane, Toews, Jordan Staal, Max Pacioretty, JVR, Zucker, Tarasenko,.....The Pens roster is already comprised of these guys.
On top of this, I saw the Athletic came out with their top 50 prospects (drafted) that are not yet in the NHL. The Pens had zero. Owen Pickering was on "others list" meaning top 100, but there are no Jake Guentzel's down on the farm.
You do not think they would have made 2 points difference?I mean.....would they have been worth 2 more points??? The Pens were a sinking ship. The worst thing that happened is I believe they won 4 in a row right before the trade deadline.
The could have probably moved Zucker out for a 1st rd pick and Dumoulin for a 3rd/4th rounder.
I mean.....would they have been worth 2 more points??? The Pens were a sinking ship. The worst thing that happened is I believe they won 4 in a row right before the trade deadline.
The could have probably moved Zucker out for a 1st rd pick and Dumoulin for a 3rd/4th rounder.
Some of these guys I want to take AWAY from Sully because even at their worst and if they are banged up, he would never sit a Dumo or a Carter and Sid and Geno never had their traditional week plus injury and the team just ran out of gas at the end.Would you re-sign Dumoulin for 2 yrs 6 mil? I would if he'd take it, think he started looking himself later in the year. I'd do it with an eye towards trading him. That's not to say I wouldn't take a hard look at what else was available first.
Not really. No.You do not think they would have made 2 points difference?
Do you actually believe Hextall had much of a say in the big decisions? I surely don't.
That's stupid. Really. This "Mario pulling the strings from behind the curtain" crap is ridiculous.Ownership
Not talking Mario. Mario is mad. Mario feels cheated.Mario is gone.That's stupid. Really. This "Mario pulling the strings from behind the curtain" crap is ridiculous.
Ownership
YesDo you actually believe Hextall had much of a say in the big decisions? I surely don't.
Gary lives in a paranoid fantasy world full timeThat's stupid. Really. This "Mario pulling the strings from behind the curtain" crap is ridiculous.
"Mr. Pot, may I introduce Mr. Kettle?"Gary lives in a paranoid fantasy world full time
‘……if ALL the stars align win 1 round.’I’m amazed that there are fans and local media who are looking for the new GM to make a few key moves so that the Penguins will be Stanley Cup contenders next year.
It’s not going to happen, the best anyone can do is trade #1 draft picks and the few young players they have to make the playoffs, and if ALL the stars align win 1 round.
If a new GM can somehow get them into the playoffs without trading any draft picks, or any reasonably talented young players, more power to them.
They can’t be trading DOC or P.O. Joseph just to get someone to take Petry or Granlund or to get a mediocre goalie.
None of our problems are his fault, but trade Guentzel for the best draft pick or young player you can get.
They shouldn’t make a SINGLE move that doesn’t benefit the future.
As a hockey fan and hater of the Boston Bruins, I would love to see them exit in the 1st round after their historically great season. What a fabulous upset this would be if Florida can pull it off. If it happens, I can't wait to see the look on the face of that weasel Marchand.Swayman....wow. Beer League goalies make that save.
Boston is going to lose. They change goalies for this game and Swayman gives up a softie.