Hence, he’s been great in stretches , but I’m concerned about him being the #1 for a full season
He’s not been great this year.
OT: The mess that is the Penguins
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He’s not been great this year.
What you should be concerned with is his ability to play roughly 90 games a year, which is what it takes to be a #1 and win a cup. He has yet to do that. He’s played phenonimal for short 30 game stretches in the playoffs where systems are more defense oriented.
I was just about to post the same thing. Remember how bad the Penguins were for the first half of 2015-16 until the shake up of head coach and some key deals. Same in 2009. Rutherford is one of the all-time great GMs at fixing teams in the short term. I have no doubt he will do the same this year.
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Unless they are getting ready to package Jarry for a bigger piece in the next month.
I’m not buying the Cole + Jarry rumors. I din’t think that gets you a big return. Sprong, Rust and Guentzel are the young tickets everybody wants that are getting us the big returns imo.
There will be no playoffs for the Penguins this year.
Their legs are shot. Too many GP over the past few seasons.
Their legs are shot. Too many GP over the past few seasons.
Letang is so bad, I worried he was having another stroke.
Murray is completely pedestrian.
But- my son enjoyed his first game ,blissfully unaware .
Murray is completely pedestrian.
But- my son enjoyed his first game ,blissfully unaware .
LOL you guys haven't learned anything from past seasons, already crying "the seasons over" when they aren't even at the midway point
Kris Letang may be the most underrated Penguin of all time. He has been a warrior for this team for a long time and he’s been one of the elite defensemen in the NHL for a long time.
Letang is easily one of the top 10 players to ever play for this franchise and that is saying a mouthful because there have been some legends come through this organization.
He has been injury prone over the years but quite frankly, a lot of the criticism of him has been very poorly informed.
To be honest, for years now, when I’m talking about the Penguins with someone and the first person they criticize is Letang, I have always taken that is my cue to mentally check out of the conversation because they obviously have no idea what they’re talking about.
It was like the goofballs back in the 90s who would bitch about Lemieux’s poor defensive play. You just look at them like they were idiots – because they were.
However, this year, those criticisms are basically well-founded. He really is playing poorly this year and that has been concerning. More concerning is the fact that he looks a step (or two) slower.
He’s really pressing out there and just looks completely out of sync. Honestly, he hasn’t looked very good all year.
His turnover tonight which led to the Ducks’ first goal was like something you would see in peewee hockey. It was just an unbelievably poor play. Also, he wasn’t able to close the gap like he always has and that was as surprising as his boneheaded pass.
The whole play was just very emblematic of his season to date.
I still wouldn’t trade him. You just can’t replace what a healthy and confident Letang brings to the lineup. When he’s right, there’s not a third line center in the league that is even close to being worth trading him for. Teams don’t trade their No. 1 defensemen for someone else’s No. 3 center. Well, let me rephrase that. Winning teams don’t make those types of boneheaded decisions.
That said, he has to start actually playing like our No. 1 defenseman. That has not been the case really all year now and if he can get his game together and Schultz comes back healthy, that’s going to radically change the way the entire team looks.
I think if they make a trade it’s going to be someone like Sheary or Sprong or some package involving One or both of those guys plus Cole.
They may deal Jarry but I doubt it, because Murray has himself been very injury prone thus far in his young career.
Letang is easily one of the top 10 players to ever play for this franchise and that is saying a mouthful because there have been some legends come through this organization.
He has been injury prone over the years but quite frankly, a lot of the criticism of him has been very poorly informed.
To be honest, for years now, when I’m talking about the Penguins with someone and the first person they criticize is Letang, I have always taken that is my cue to mentally check out of the conversation because they obviously have no idea what they’re talking about.
It was like the goofballs back in the 90s who would bitch about Lemieux’s poor defensive play. You just look at them like they were idiots – because they were.
However, this year, those criticisms are basically well-founded. He really is playing poorly this year and that has been concerning. More concerning is the fact that he looks a step (or two) slower.
He’s really pressing out there and just looks completely out of sync. Honestly, he hasn’t looked very good all year.
His turnover tonight which led to the Ducks’ first goal was like something you would see in peewee hockey. It was just an unbelievably poor play. Also, he wasn’t able to close the gap like he always has and that was as surprising as his boneheaded pass.
The whole play was just very emblematic of his season to date.
I still wouldn’t trade him. You just can’t replace what a healthy and confident Letang brings to the lineup. When he’s right, there’s not a third line center in the league that is even close to being worth trading him for. Teams don’t trade their No. 1 defensemen for someone else’s No. 3 center. Well, let me rephrase that. Winning teams don’t make those types of boneheaded decisions.
That said, he has to start actually playing like our No. 1 defenseman. That has not been the case really all year now and if he can get his game together and Schultz comes back healthy, that’s going to radically change the way the entire team looks.
I think if they make a trade it’s going to be someone like Sheary or Sprong or some package involving One or both of those guys plus Cole.
They may deal Jarry but I doubt it, because Murray has himself been very injury prone thus far in his young career.
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Phil Bourque said on the post game show that a trade is coming, but couldn't happen right now due to the mandatory Xmas break. Now Madden just tweeted the same thing. I wonder who is headed out of town?
He’s aging in dog years it seems
Dead legs shouldn’t be an excuse for him...
Crosby, Kessel, Sheehan, hornqvist, and hagellin (more times than not) seem like the only players who seem interested and competing.
If Sid was producing like normal, the team would be winning. A lot of blame should fall on his shoulders right now.
That is just unbelievable. I bet he is having trouble sleeping at night.
That is just unbelievable. I bet he is having trouble sleeping at night.
The crazy thing though is that he’s getting the looks as is Kessle but the production is not there. I’m with you I wonder who is leaving. I know they were shopping Cole before and they just brought in Oleskiak so perhaps they found the deal they were looking for.
Sid is a shell of his former self right now, and he has been that way the entire year. Mario and Jags never went through stretches like this.
Rumor is that the Pens are unhappy with Sheary's play. Cole is obviously on the way out. It has even been reported that GMJR is fielding calls about Letang, who has a no trade clause and would have to approve any move( I would never trade him). I'd love to see Hags moved, but it will be very hard with his contract.
A lot of dummies are pointing fingers at Murray. He is not the problem. The breakout, 5v5 scoring, puck control, and effort are the main problems.
Rumor is that the Pens are unhappy with Sheary's play. Cole is obviously on the way out. It has even been reported that GMJR is fielding calls about Letang, who has a no trade clause and would have to approve any move( I would never trade him). I'd love to see Hags moved, but it will be very hard with his contract.
A lot of dummies are pointing fingers at Murray. He is not the problem. The breakout, 5v5 scoring, puck control, and effort are the main problems.
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Murray is pedestrian right now.
That’s not a Blame- he’s simply not stealing games.
We don’t disagree much when it comes to the Pens. However, in Sid’s defense, Mario and Jagr never won 3 cups.
As far as Letang goes, his name seems to always come up regarding a trade for whatever reason. Sheary is definitely expendable.
Like you said, it has nothing to do with Murray. The team in front of him is simply not very good right now.
As far as Letang goes, his name seems to always come up regarding a trade for whatever reason. Sheary is definitely expendable.
Like you said, it has nothing to do with Murray. The team in front of him is simply not very good right now.
I can't believe what I'm watching. Past Pens cup champs were almost as crappy as this team but there were clear reasons like key injuries or personnel-coaching issues. This team just stinks in every aspect. Not a single player has looked good.
My opinion FWIW is that this idiotic system of playing flacid D and then just blocking shots has this team burned out. Too many guys being asked to play on busted up feet and ankles game after game, year after year. The entire D needs replaced and a new stand up system needs to be employed. It could also be dead legs but these guys were floating around from training camp.
My opinion FWIW is that this idiotic system of playing flacid D and then just blocking shots has this team burned out. Too many guys being asked to play on busted up feet and ankles game after game, year after year. The entire D needs replaced and a new stand up system needs to be employed. It could also be dead legs but these guys were floating around from training camp.
All that is true except for one thing.......Letang isn't bringing any of this to the table and he hasn't for any stretch this year. We are now halfway through the season. It is time to be concerned if Letang's injuries have taken their toll. And yes, the Pens went through 30 games and a Stanley Cup playoff run last year without him.
I think the Kris Letang is irreplaceable is becoming more and more a myth. Sorry.
Sid is a shell of himself, but he has also been like this for long stretches before (see the year and half before Sullivan arrived) so to count him out is premature. But he is definitely not himself.
My brother who is not the astute hockey observer said it best last night. The Pens are getting ZERO luck, ZERO bounces, every goalie is looking like a Hall of Famer. Every Pens shot, tip, etc....is either getting saved or is just going wide. At some point you would think those would start to find the back of the net. But......maybe they won't.
The Columbus game was hopefully an awakening, then they pulled this. It is pointing more and more that they just don't have much gas in the tank this year. Because they had maybe one of their best efforts of the year followed by one of their worst.
The team needs some infusion of new blood, new legs, new voices in the locker room. This tends to happen. Again, since the advent of the 4 7 game series, no team has went to the finals 3 straight years.
I am not sure what can be done. Yes, the bottom 6 needs upgraded, but let's face it, if Sid and Geno are looking ordinary, this isn't a good hockey team.
Sid is doing everything well except scoring, so I’m not worried about him.
Malkin concerns me more.
Not worried about hornqvist, either- his effort is there even if his legs are sluggish right now.
Our passing was embarrassing , lots of pucks in skates.
They’ve lost a lot of character guys, and it seems to show.
Wings are a mess, excluding Kessel.
Malkin concerns me more.
Not worried about hornqvist, either- his effort is there even if his legs are sluggish right now.
Our passing was embarrassing , lots of pucks in skates.
They’ve lost a lot of character guys, and it seems to show.
Wings are a mess, excluding Kessel.
Just wanted to weigh in on Matt Murray's play this season as there seems to be a significant difference of opinions among posters of whether he is playing poorly or it is the defense in front of him.
Goals against average and save % are important but as we know aren't always a great way to evaluate a goalies performance as they are dependent on how the team is playing in front of the goalie and thus the quality and number of shots the goalie is facing.
Advanced goalie analytics/stats try to help adjust the goalies stats to account for how well or poorly the defense/team is playing in front of him. If you look at Murray's advanced analytics last year, almost all his stats were in the top 5-10 of goalies, well above average and a top 5-10 goalie in the league. Murray's advanced stats this year which again help to adjust for how the defense is playing are a lot worse indicating that even if the defense is playing poorly, Murray is also playing worse this season. In fact, his advanced stats are mostly in the 20-25 range and are worse then the AVERAGE goalie this season. Jarry's stats are better then Murray's stats so far this year.
Murray is FAR from the Pens only problem but he is part of the problem.... he has to play better.
Goals against average and save % are important but as we know aren't always a great way to evaluate a goalies performance as they are dependent on how the team is playing in front of the goalie and thus the quality and number of shots the goalie is facing.
Advanced goalie analytics/stats try to help adjust the goalies stats to account for how well or poorly the defense/team is playing in front of him. If you look at Murray's advanced analytics last year, almost all his stats were in the top 5-10 of goalies, well above average and a top 5-10 goalie in the league. Murray's advanced stats this year which again help to adjust for how the defense is playing are a lot worse indicating that even if the defense is playing poorly, Murray is also playing worse this season. In fact, his advanced stats are mostly in the 20-25 range and are worse then the AVERAGE goalie this season. Jarry's stats are better then Murray's stats so far this year.
Murray is FAR from the Pens only problem but he is part of the problem.... he has to play better.
They are a mess when it comes to 5v5 hockey. Lose all the puck battles and just can't score. Murray has to be perfect every night just for us to be in the game. With our defense, him being perfect is just not realistic!
You’re right to an extent. But this year’s version is a little deeper. They have the talent to hit the switch but this version seems worse than years past.
You create your own luck with hustle, effort, and willingness to go to the dirty areas. Right now the Pens are 0-3.
It won't matter who the penguins acquire if Sid and Malkin continue to be pedestrian.
No, I agree with that. Kris Letang is not playing nearly to his traditional level. I can’t disagree with any of that because it’s absolutely true.
Frankly, the same could be said of Crosby.
However, which do you think is more likely to happen:
1.) We trade Letang and get a fair return for him;
2.) We stick with Letang and hope that he finds his game?
It would appear to me those are our two choices and I think the latter is much more likely to happen then the former.
I know we won the cup without him last year but I think that was a fluke. I think a lot of things had to go EXACTLY our way for that to happen and to bank on that happening again is not something I would be willing to do.
Now, I must also acknowledge that I well understand that we are not going to win the cup with him playing the way he’s currently playing, so I get that end of the equation as well.
I just think that giving up a defenseman that as recently as this time last year was arguably among the very best defensemen in the NHL is not a good idea under any circumstances because they are so, so incredibly hard to find. You literally cannot get back a fair return for one of them.
We can get a good third line center without weakening ourselves elsewhere and I think trading our top defenseman weakens us in the long run.
Yeah, he had two breakaway goals against him, but after the second one (the third Anaheim goal) I said out loud to a room full of people "he has to make that save". Sometimes goalies have to keep their team in it when they are less than their best.
I dunno. You and I are old enough to remember "back in the day". No one really wanted to part with a John Cullen and top young dman in the league maybe Zarly Zalapski, but we did it and it was one of the best trades in NHL history. The next year, we traded a future HOFer (Mark Recchi) well and another future HOFer (Paul Coffey) and again, the trade worked out well. Of course I can also remember flip sides like the disastrous trade of Segei Zubov for Kevin Hatcher.
The point here, the Pens are at this point where a MAJOR shake up is needed. I am not sure Ian Cole and Connor Sheary will yield that (though I think that would definitely be a package I wouldn't mind seeing.
To be honest, I wish Justin Schultz was healthy and playing well, because I would look to move him or Letang, having both is unnecessary, I think Olli Maata can play the point also.
But this team needs juice. It also is up against the cap so some salary is going to have to go to get something in return that will help.
Tough situation they are in right now.
It is like they are shooting at the end glass instead of the net. So many chances are shooting wide. I know it is tired, but I also think it is a bit of being unlucky right now also.
LeTang must go. Pis plus/minus is disastrous. Hes doing more damage than good and somebody will trade for him. We may not get a ton for him, but at this point its addition by subtraction.
I agree with what you say that the way we are playing 5 on 5, Murray would have to play a very good game to win ...... however, Murray is not playing that well, in fact, his advanced stats indicate he is playing worse then the average NHL goalie independent of the way our defense is playing (Jarry is playing better than Murray so far by advanced stats) ..... therefore, even if we start playing well 5 on 5, we aren't going very far as a team if the goalie continues to play below average.
To go a long way, we have to play better 5 on 5 (among other things) and Murray has to step his game up, IMO.
List of guys not playing up to what they have the past two years?
The entire roster except for maybe Phil Kessel. So kind of hard to single out anyone, but yeah it would be nice for Murray to be playing out of his mind. But when you are scoring 0, 1 or 2 goals every night, it is pretty tough to win.
In the past month the Penguins have won three games in regulation (2 versus Buffalo and 1 vs Arizona). Let that sink in. Pretty pathetic.
I know, that is why part of me is saying you know what, bag this season, it is not there, look to retool in the offseason and go for it again next year.
I just dont want to see them mortgage alot more of the future for a playoff run that may not be there.
I agree with you. You can't fix fatigue. Does anyone know if the new Lemieux complex has Cryotherapy? I think that is the only thing that may give the Pens the slightest chance.
The NFG's aren't fitting into the Sullivan fast strike "stealth" hockey attack system. We look a bit like the old Johnson or Blysma ( however you spell his name) PENS?
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