OT: The mess that is the Penguins
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That’s crazy. Does the same logic apply to Crosby? The fact is he’s been pretty awful too for most of the year. Of course not, and nor should it!
You can’t be completely insane with one person but logical and measured with the other guy.
To be clear, Murray is nowhere near our biggest problem and he doesn't have to play out of his mind ...... but he does have to play more like he did last year then he has played so far this season. The issues other than goaltending that are even much more pressing need to be fixed or we aren't going very far (or may not even make the playoffs).
Murray is a huge asset and is nowhere near the teams biggest problem, but he is not playing nearly as well this season as he did last season and the advanced analytics confirm this ...... Jarry has actually played somewhat better then Murray so far...... Murray can play better and I think he will.... fixing the rest of the teams problems likely will be more difficult.
It blows my mind that they are even fielding calls for Letang. I wouldn't even answer that phone call. The man is coming off of major neck surgery and is having a rough go. If the Pens right the ship and make the playoffs he will be one of the main reasons why. The man is a legend, and like Crosby, I hope he retires a Penguin.
NHL contracts are guaranteed. There is no such thing as a paycut or cutting him and he not getting his salary. The only thing they can do is buyout his contract which would be a moronic thing to do.
That being said, Letang is getting traded. JR is in win now mode and will be for the next few years. Too many high salaries on the back end to get this kind of shit performance. Letang is the only one back there that can bring back 2+ quality pieces in return.
I don’t think he can come back and get to the level he was playing at 2 years ago. Too many injuries and he’s getting into his 30’s. See what you can get before something else happens.
Partially true. He has a modified no-trade clause. Only sid and geno have full no movement clauses. Letang would be giving the team a list that they can trade with.
You are absolutely right, I forgot. The weird thing is unlike most limited NMC contracts where a player will submit a list of 8 teams they are willing to go to, Letang's is a list of 18 teams.
If you want to wow your friends, you can say a dozen and a half. Their minds will be blown. Make sure they don’t treat recruits. They read these boards.
Kessle looks "fatter" than last year he must have been eating alot of hot dogs from the Stanley Cup in the off season! It looks like he has a hard time getting the chin strap for his "lid" buckled?
He must be the first "fat boy" to be a hockey star and he is great!
It was fun last year when the PENS announcers pointed out that Kessle talks to himself alot and said " he must be talking to the invisible man next to him on the bench" since Malkin and the rest of the PENS moved away from him!
Merry Christmas to All!
Signed: Mr Buffett
Go Pitt Panthers & The CSU Rams!
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It's Kessel. And he is maybe the only Penguin (well maybe Hornquist too) who is putting up number as good or better than the previous few years.
Letang has given the team very little for 3 years. Paying him...now thats crazy.
#triggered
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What in the blue hell are you talking about? Letang or Kessel was our second best player in the 2016 playoffs. The Penguins weren’t playing him 25-30 minutes per night because they thought he sucked.
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Letang was 4th in the Norris Trophy voting in the 2015-2016 season as well.
They can change salary to bonus if they so choose , it will still cost them the same amount but won't count against salary. Let's hope he didn't hit the age wall and will pick it up
With the fungible cap, teams approach their highest-salaried players to “bonus out” their salary; i.e., convert it to prorated signing bonus to create cap room. For players, there is no downside to these paper transactions. The cash is the same, often with even better payment terms, and the increases in future cap numbers may give them more leverage against being released.
With the fungible cap, teams approach their highest-salaried players to “bonus out” their salary; i.e., convert it to prorated signing bonus to create cap room. For players, there is no downside to these paper transactions. The cash is the same, often with even better payment terms, and the increases in future cap numbers may give them more leverage against being released.
You need to watch closer. This year ,yea. Saying he's been bad the past two years before that should be grounds for a 302.
Letang may well have hit the age wall. I don’t know? However, couldn’t the same thing be asked of Crosby? He has lost a lot of tread on his tires as well.
Maybe Sid’s and Kris’s declines are both permanent? I don’t think so in either case, but who knows? I just think it’s two guys who are each off to very poor starts and it’s January now, which means it is time to pick it up.
I don’t get the whole Letang hatred. I think we’ve seen this for years and it has never made any sense to me. I just don’t think people even know what they’re watching. I know that sounds very rude, but I can’t really come up with another explanation for it.
Over the years he has made up for a hell of a lot of defensive breakdowns — most of which were not his fault — and we’ve been incredibly fortunate to have him.
He was injured last year and we won the cup without him. That was extraordinarily surprising to me. Personally, I don’t think we could do it again. However, who knows? I didn’t think we could do it the first time either.
Letang has definitely struggled so far this year – there’s no doubt about that. I still think trading him would be completely bananas and I think the rumors about him being traded are almost certainly nonsense. No. 1 defensemen are like No. 1 pitchers in baseball. Teams just don’t trade them, even when they are struggling. That’s because they know that they typically can’t replace them via trade or free agency.
Occasionally a legit top pairing defenseman is dealt but it is exceedingly rare.
Maybe Sid’s and Kris’s declines are both permanent? I don’t think so in either case, but who knows? I just think it’s two guys who are each off to very poor starts and it’s January now, which means it is time to pick it up.
I don’t get the whole Letang hatred. I think we’ve seen this for years and it has never made any sense to me. I just don’t think people even know what they’re watching. I know that sounds very rude, but I can’t really come up with another explanation for it.
Over the years he has made up for a hell of a lot of defensive breakdowns — most of which were not his fault — and we’ve been incredibly fortunate to have him.
He was injured last year and we won the cup without him. That was extraordinarily surprising to me. Personally, I don’t think we could do it again. However, who knows? I didn’t think we could do it the first time either.
Letang has definitely struggled so far this year – there’s no doubt about that. I still think trading him would be completely bananas and I think the rumors about him being traded are almost certainly nonsense. No. 1 defensemen are like No. 1 pitchers in baseball. Teams just don’t trade them, even when they are struggling. That’s because they know that they typically can’t replace them via trade or free agency.
Occasionally a legit top pairing defenseman is dealt but it is exceedingly rare.
I think Pittsburgh needs to add to its bottom six – particularly at center.
You can’t win the Stanley Cup with Carter Rowney and Riley Sheahan rotating on your third line.
Personally, I do think the Reeves trade was a mistake. However, I certainly understand why they made it. I just think our system was very well-defined as a four line system and when you’re playing a guy five and six minutes per night, he throws off that entire system.
I think if they can get Schultz back and healthy and get Letang playing like Letang again, and they can add somebody who can drive possession from the third line center slot, a of these other issues will fall right into place.
That’s still a very tall order, mind you. However, I don’t agree that they need to overhaul the entire team because that usually doesn’t work out very well for teams.
You can’t win the Stanley Cup with Carter Rowney and Riley Sheahan rotating on your third line.
Personally, I do think the Reeves trade was a mistake. However, I certainly understand why they made it. I just think our system was very well-defined as a four line system and when you’re playing a guy five and six minutes per night, he throws off that entire system.
I think if they can get Schultz back and healthy and get Letang playing like Letang again, and they can add somebody who can drive possession from the third line center slot, a of these other issues will fall right into place.
That’s still a very tall order, mind you. However, I don’t agree that they need to overhaul the entire team because that usually doesn’t work out very well for teams.
I definitely agree that we don't need to blow the whole thing up. Furthermore, I have to agree that our best chance is to keep Letang and hope that both he and Sid begin to play the type of hockey we expect from them.
I do think what is being overlooked here, is the magnitude of the loss of Kunitz, Bonino, and Cullen. These three did so many things for the team. They were fixtures who led on and off the ice. These three were not replaced adequately and it has left a void that is most noticeable in the lack of their overall effectiveness in 5 on 5 hockey.
The good news is that we are not out of anything yet. It is fully natural to expect a letdown in effort after back to back cup runs. However, I don't think anyone envisioned it dropping off to the level they are playing at. I believe Rutherford will be shaking it up here very soon. I don't think the trade or trades will be of blockbuster variety. I do expect him to address the loss of the three I mentioned earlier, by hopefully adding some character and leadership to the room. They definitely need a push to generate some excitement and get those dead legs to come to life.
It's not hatred as much as he is not playing well at all, he has alot of cap space and the Pens won it all without him last year.
If I'm correct , maybe I'm not
They can buy him out , that will free up cap space , if they don't trade him. Hopefully he will pick it up and soon. I watched a game in the past two weeks , where he turned it over 4 times in first 10 minutes in front of the goalie. I was like what in the hell.
Why would you "buy him out"? That is silly and seems like hatred. You want to move him for some assets, even if you have to hold back some of the salary. But he is still an asset that someone will covet, how much is not yet determined. But you don't just drop him out of spite. That is what message board jabrones do.
Apparently Letang is the new whipping boy now that MAF is gone. You can go up and down the lineup and replace his name with anyone. They’re all tin cans right now. The two biggest offenders, two of the biggest playoff contributors from each run, Rust ang Guentzel, have done next to nothing and in comparable terms to the rest of the roster their legs should be some of the freshest.
He has been up and down. Before Sullivan came, he was not really that good. He has never been the PP QB that we all thought he would be. Schultz is better than that. He has been a great skater and puck mover, but I am not sure what has happened. Age and injury may account for some decline, but the egregious errors and decisions, I am not sure what has happened there. I think if you are the Pens, you have to kick the tires on what they can get for Letang.
Like I said, we are both old enough to remember there was not always overwhelming joy in moving Cullen and Zalapski or especially Recchi and Coffey. You can even argue in the latter trade the Pens gave away the best player included in the deal, but they got a needed push and some needed diversity in the style of players acquired.
Sometimes, you got to give up to get.
You are right, and that is a great point. One thing that is obvious is that the Pens are just not getting any bounces at all. True you have to make your breaks, but however the puck is going to bounce to benefit the opposition and hurt the Pens, it is doing that right now. Maybe it is the regression to the mean from all of the puck luck they have gotten the last season and a half.
Their shooting percentage is microscopically low, you have to think again, a "regression to the mean" is going to happen and some of those shots are going to find the back of the net. But they look from Roster spot 1 to 20 and beyond as dead men skating right now.
Look, it is very simple. If Sidney Crosby, the best player in the world, was producing at his career averages the team would be winning. Sid makes everyone else better.
We need see a little more gusto from this roster after this time off. There has to be a willingness to go to the dirty areas. That is how most scoring chances are generated 5v5, and right now Hornqvist is the only one consistently sticking his nose in.
Just as a talking point, I will throw out the forward lines that I'd like to see given a chance before any major trade is made.
Hornqvist-Crosby-Sprong
ZAR-Malkin-Rust
Sheary-Guentzel-Kessel
Hagelin-Rowney-Kuhnhackl
Before you guys jump all over me, I'll justify some of my reasoning.
Line 1- Hornqvist has proven he can play both sides, so he flips to LW. Sprong is kicking ass at WBS and deserves a shot to snipe with the big boys.
Line 2- ZAR shoots left so he flips to the LW, because Malkin needs a bruising net-front presence.
Line 3- Jake is a C by trade and a fantastic play maker who likes to go to the net. He needs more space, which his own line would provide. Plus, I love what I saw from him in those 3 or 4 games that Sully used him at 3rd C earlier this year.
Line 4- A mix of speed and power. This also allows all 4 main Pkers to be in the lineup.
I have seen more than enough of Sheahan and Reaves.
We need see a little more gusto from this roster after this time off. There has to be a willingness to go to the dirty areas. That is how most scoring chances are generated 5v5, and right now Hornqvist is the only one consistently sticking his nose in.
Just as a talking point, I will throw out the forward lines that I'd like to see given a chance before any major trade is made.
Hornqvist-Crosby-Sprong
ZAR-Malkin-Rust
Sheary-Guentzel-Kessel
Hagelin-Rowney-Kuhnhackl
Before you guys jump all over me, I'll justify some of my reasoning.
Line 1- Hornqvist has proven he can play both sides, so he flips to LW. Sprong is kicking ass at WBS and deserves a shot to snipe with the big boys.
Line 2- ZAR shoots left so he flips to the LW, because Malkin needs a bruising net-front presence.
Line 3- Jake is a C by trade and a fantastic play maker who likes to go to the net. He needs more space, which his own line would provide. Plus, I love what I saw from him in those 3 or 4 games that Sully used him at 3rd C earlier this year.
Line 4- A mix of speed and power. This also allows all 4 main Pkers to be in the lineup.
I have seen more than enough of Sheahan and Reaves.
No, he wasn’t all that up-and-down. I think people’s opinions changed more than his game. He was a pretty great player under Bylsma too. He’s basically consistently been the third best player on a team with Crosby and Malkin.
It is correct to say that Schultz is a better power play quarterback than Letang. It is also correct to say that Letang is better at literally every other skill on the ice.
Personally I have never thought of Letang as an “offensive defenseman” and I think the people who do are missing the boat. I have always thought of him as an ELITE two way defenseman who excels in all three zones and who eliminates potential odd man rushes against better than any other defenseman in the NHL.
He’s not playing well right now and people are panicking. I think those people wrong. Then again, I think he’s been grossly underrated by a lot of our fans for about a decade now.
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As for the second part of your post, of course I understand that you have to give up something up to get something of value.
I also understand that a significant trade is likely around the corner. This is an aggressive organization and they are not going to sit back and let the season wither away without trying.
I’m just having a hard time understanding how you make your team better by trading away the guy who for so long has been FAR AND AWAY your best defenseman?
Nobody has ever been able to explain that rationale to me.
Also, it’s not like they have a clear cut replacement lined up. Can you tell me who is this team’s best defenseman because I sure can’t.
Is it Schultz? Dumoulin? Cole? Maatta? Hunwick? Who? Who is the Larry Murphy in this scenario?
Letang, when playing to his typical standard established over a long period of time, is very clearly head and shoulders better than all of those guys. In fact, that’s a bit like saying that Larry Fitzgerald was Pitt’s best receiver when he was here. It is so painfully obvious that you shouldn’t even have to say it.
We’re going to trade THAT guy? To whom, Ottawa? Eugene Melnyk really is as crazy or some of our fans and he might be willing to trade his best defenseman, who is also not tearing the world apart this year.
If we could swing that deal, count me in. However, if we’re going to move him for some cheaper second or third pairing a guy to create cap room for a higher-priced third line center all because Letang hasn’t played well for the first 35 games of the season, well, that would be a disastrously shortsighted decision.
I don’t know how else to say it other than to say that I would find that to be catastrophically moronic.
I also understand that a significant trade is likely around the corner. This is an aggressive organization and they are not going to sit back and let the season wither away without trying.
I’m just having a hard time understanding how you make your team better by trading away the guy who for so long has been FAR AND AWAY your best defenseman?
Nobody has ever been able to explain that rationale to me.
Also, it’s not like they have a clear cut replacement lined up. Can you tell me who is this team’s best defenseman because I sure can’t.
Is it Schultz? Dumoulin? Cole? Maatta? Hunwick? Who? Who is the Larry Murphy in this scenario?
Letang, when playing to his typical standard established over a long period of time, is very clearly head and shoulders better than all of those guys. In fact, that’s a bit like saying that Larry Fitzgerald was Pitt’s best receiver when he was here. It is so painfully obvious that you shouldn’t even have to say it.
We’re going to trade THAT guy? To whom, Ottawa? Eugene Melnyk really is as crazy or some of our fans and he might be willing to trade his best defenseman, who is also not tearing the world apart this year.
If we could swing that deal, count me in. However, if we’re going to move him for some cheaper second or third pairing a guy to create cap room for a higher-priced third line center all because Letang hasn’t played well for the first 35 games of the season, well, that would be a disastrously shortsighted decision.
I don’t know how else to say it other than to say that I would find that to be catastrophically moronic.
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Rutherford doesn’t make trades because the fans hate somebody...he makes trades because he feels it helps the team better now and in the long run. His trades are signed off by Mario. For how much smoke there is, I’d be suprised if the trade next week isn’t Letang. That being said, what is an acceptable return?
Although dissapointing, I think Sam Bennett in Calgary can be a star. I’d ask for him and Brodie. I’d also look to Toronto for Bozak and a young star of a player (better than kapanen). Montreal is supposedly hot after him and willing to part with max and/or galchenyuk.
Although dissapointing, I think Sam Bennett in Calgary can be a star. I’d ask for him and Brodie. I’d also look to Toronto for Bozak and a young star of a player (better than kapanen). Montreal is supposedly hot after him and willing to part with max and/or galchenyuk.
Just to clairify, ZAR stand for Zach Aston-Reese from WBS. He is a Kunitz type. Big body who isn't afraid to get dirty or go to the front of the net.
Take all of the money you invest in the Pens and put into the Panthers. Wonder how much disposable income is spent on pro sports by Pitt alums?
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