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OT: The Rock & Roll HOF

mike412

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Jul 1, 2001
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What happened to our annual ‘who will get in, who should have been nominated, who is the most deserving of individuals/groups that have never been inducted, who is the least deserving’ thread which typically ran multiple pages?

Did we miss it because they changed the date of the inductions to the middle of the FB season? Is it due to Owtahear’s absence? Did DT_Pitt lose his interest in rock music?

Anyway, my belated thoughts on this year’s nominees/inductees and related subjects.

(1) I thought they all were deserving. I was especially pleased with the induction of Bernie Taupin, the lyricist on almost every Elton John song. Cool guy. He and Elton are such opposites and yet they are a great team. Represented him in a lawsuit brought by ex-wife #1 (who he wrote “Tiny Dancer” about). Illustrates the validity of the saying “no good deed goes unpunished.” I believe they were married only when Bernie wrote the songs on one album. But in the divorce settlement he magnanimously gave her a half-interest in the income from songs on two other albums. That was enough to provide her with a large income for life; between $700k and $1M annually.

But, no good deed goes unpunished: When Elton and Bernie signed with a new entity to exploit their catalog, she sued because the new entity took a 1% higher commission. She claimed that violated Bernie’s fiduciary duty to maximize the income from the exploitation of the catalog.

The evidence, however, showed that her net vincome from the new entity was $150k to $250k higher annually under the new entity than it had been under the old entity. The new entity did a much better job and deserved that extra 1%.

That is not uncommon in the industry. AFTRA pays lower performance rights fees than BMI. But AFTRA does a better job than BMI of tracking performance rights and generally pays out more.

Lots of musicians would have settled the case and paid her something to avoid the legal fees. Bernie wouldn’t. On principle. Anyway, the judge understood. She got not one penny.

But, back to the HOF. With Willie Nelson the latest non-rocker in it, how can they keep John Denver, Johnny Cash, The Weavers and Woodie Guthrie out? Bernie Taupin made a pitch for Merle Haggard. I don’t know his music well enough to have an opinion.

I will let those far more knowledgeable than me about music after the 1980s pitch their own deserving entrants.

Let me tell you one group I was shocked to find out is in the HOF: “The Loving Spoonful.” Are you kidding me? One big hit: “Do You Believe in Magic?” and they are in the HOF. Could it have anything to do with the friendship between John Sebastian and Jann Wenner?

If they were going to induct any short-lived group from that period it should have been “The Association.” Two of the greatest love songs of all-time in “Cherish and “Never My Love” and a handful of other hits.
 
Rock is dead. Bands that would be considered "rock" 30 years ago are now country. The Eagles, Allman brothers, Wet Willie, Black Crows, the Band, etc would all be country music now.

The fact that Thin Lizzy, Boston, and the J Geils band are not in the "Rock" hall of fame but Willy Nelson is about to get in....speaks volume on how it is run by the corporations and not the fans.
 
All HOF’s stink. They are all the Halls of the very good now, and in the RnR HOF, it’s not even that if they are putting in one hit wonders. If lovin spoonful is in, who’s next? Dexy’s Midnight Runners? Tommy Tutone? Chumbawamba? Blind Melon? If there are one hit wonders in the Hall, one that maybe should be is the Sugarhill Gang. Then again, they aren’t exactly Rock and Roll…which is an entirely different discussion.

But nothing is worse than the hockey hall of fame. It’s the Hall of “somewhat good”
 
But, back to the HOF. With Willie Nelson the latest non-rocker in it, how can they keep John Denver, Johnny Cash, The Weavers and Woodie Guthrie out? Bernie Taupin made a pitch for Merle Haggard. I don’t know his music well enough to have an opinion.
Willie got in because he's alive and was willing to go to the ceremony, also I think they toss in someone like Willie or Dolly Parton last year just to generate more news coverage.
 
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I love how people try to explain away them adding non rock and roll artists to the Rock and Roll HoF. But whatever.

The WWE HoF is probably more legitimate.
 
Rock is dead. Bands that would be considered "rock" 30 years ago are now country. The Eagles, Allman brothers, Wet Willie, Black Crows, the Band, etc would all be country music now.

The fact that Thin Lizzy, Boston, and the J Geils band are not in the "Rock" hall of fame but Willy Nelson is about to get in....speaks volume on how it is run by the corporations and not the fans.
name 3 songs that the J Geils band sings without using the internet.. I bet you cant. And i'll give you the two obvious ones, freeze frame and Angel is a centerfold..
 
What happened to our annual ‘who will get in, who should have been nominated, who is the most deserving of individuals/groups that have never been inducted, who is the least deserving’ thread which typically ran multiple pages?

Did we miss it because they changed the date of the inductions to the middle of the FB season? Is it due to Owtahear’s absence? Did DT_Pitt lose his interest in rock music?

Anyway, my belated thoughts on this year’s nominees/inductees and related subjects.

(1) I thought they all were deserving. I was especially pleased with the induction of Bernie Taupin, the lyricist on almost every Elton John song. Cool guy. He and Elton are such opposites and yet they are a great team. Represented him in a lawsuit brought by ex-wife #1 (who he wrote “Tiny Dancer” about). Illustrates the validity of the saying “no good deed goes unpunished.” I believe they were married only when Bernie wrote the songs on one album. But in the divorce settlement he magnanimously gave her a half-interest in the income from songs on two other albums. That was enough to provide her with a large income for life; between $700k and $1M annually.

But, no good deed goes unpunished: When Elton and Bernie signed with a new entity to exploit their catalog, she sued because the new entity took a 1% higher commission. She claimed that violated Bernie’s fiduciary duty to maximize the income from the exploitation of the catalog.

The evidence, however, showed that her net vincome from the new entity was $150k to $250k higher annually under the new entity than it had been under the old entity. The new entity did a much better job and deserved that extra 1%.

That is not uncommon in the industry. AFTRA pays lower performance rights fees than BMI. But AFTRA does a better job than BMI of tracking performance rights and generally pays out more.

Lots of musicians would have settled the case and paid her something to avoid the legal fees. Bernie wouldn’t. On principle. Anyway, the judge understood. She got not one penny.

But, back to the HOF. With Willie Nelson the latest non-rocker in it, how can they keep John Denver, Johnny Cash, The Weavers and Woodie Guthrie out? Bernie Taupin made a pitch for Merle Haggard. I don’t know his music well enough to have an opinion.

I will let those far more knowledgeable than me about music after the 1980s pitch their own deserving entrants.

Let me tell you one group I was shocked to find out is in the HOF: “The Loving Spoonful.” Are you kidding me? One big hit: “Do You Believe in Magic?” and they are in the HOF. Could it have anything to do with the friendship between John Sebastian and Jann Wenner?

If they were going to induct any short-lived group from that period it should have been “The Association.” Two of the greatest love songs of all-time in “Cherish and “Never My Love” and a handful of other hits.
In that Jethro Tull cannot even garner a single nomination to a hall loaded with "how the hell are they ins" the discussion is pointless as the honor has no validity...
 
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Wait,

Willie Nelson is getting in but Johnny Cash is not?

Blow the building up and start all over
 
i believe Johnny Cash is in both the country HOF and rock HOF. i could be wrong though.
Cash was inducted into the RnR HOF in 1992. The RnR HOF inducted a decent amount of country artists in the "early influence" category, Cash, Willie Nelson and Dolly Parton are the only ones inducted in regular classes.
 
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Willie got in because he's alive and was willing to go to the ceremony, also I think they toss in someone like Willie or Dolly Parton last year just to generate more news coverage.


And to Dolly's credit, when they put her on the ballot she said that it was a joke to put her on a rock and roll ballot because she doesn't play rock music and asked them to remove her name from the ballot.

Of course the HOF refused and people voted her in anyway.

Which is the reason that she has a rock album coming out soon, mostly of covers, many with the original artists also on the tracks. Because she figured if they put her in the rock HOF she should at least have a rock song (or in this case, an album full of them) to her credit.

If that whole situation doesn't perfectly exemplify the joke that the rock and roll hall of fame has become I don't know what does.
 
im kidding but not really, i really do like me some Huey lewis and the news..

he was good in Duets too and of course his cameo in Back to the Future was legendary.
Yeah, it wasn't bad. That young woman was a super athlete. She competed in triathlon, and played college hoops. Would go run with her and play pickup hoops. I couldn't hang. She ended up becoming a pilot in the Navy and being part of the first squadron with female pilots flying off carriers. A complete ass-kicker. And way out of my league. But I guess she really wanted to see Huey Lewis haha!
I'm grateful for that memory coming back.
 
Yeah, it wasn't bad. That young woman was a super athlete. She competed in triathlon, and played college hoops. Would go run with her and play pickup hoops. I couldn't hang. She ended up becoming a pilot in the Navy and being part of the first squadron with female pilots flying off carriers. A complete ass-kicker. And way out of my league. But I guess she really wanted to see Huey Lewis haha!
I'm grateful for that memory coming back.
you dated a female naval aviator who did triathlons?

Jesus Christmas bro, she was basically a hot ass female Iceman..
 
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you dated a female naval aviator who did triathlons?

Jesus Christmas bro, she was basically a hot ass female Iceman..
She didn't fly fighters though. Flew the E2 AWACS plane.
To top it off, she's now a doctor.
She was a smoking hot blonde with a ponytail.
I had a lot of confidence back then.
 
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All HOF’s stink. They are all the Halls of the very good now, and in the RnR HOF, it’s not even that if they are putting in one hit wonders. If lovin spoonful is in, who’s next? Dexy’s Midnight Runners? Tommy Tutone? Chumbawamba? Blind Melon? If there are one hit wonders in the Hall, one that maybe should be is the Sugarhill Gang. Then again, they aren’t exactly Rock and Roll…which is an entirely different discussion.

But nothing is worse than the hockey hall of fame. It’s the Hall of “somewhat good”
The purpose of hall of fames is to make money, have ceremonies and sell stuff every year, so in the end, if you have to induct people every year, it's going to more than just the very creamiest of the cream of the crop.
 
In hindsight, they probably should have slowed down the induction process. They put in too many artists early and then eventually ran out of legitimate and worthy acts too soon. Maybe 2 or 3 a year instead of the 5 or so that they do.
 
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In that Jethro Tull cannot even garner a single nomination to a hall loaded with "how the hell are they ins" the discussion is pointless as the honor has no validity...
Tull was a GREAT band. Very novel and talented, definitely didn't follow the pack. Insane with their record of huge albums and hits they're not in.
 
You really don’t know what a J Geils party is all about.They had 10 albums out before those two songs.Top 5 live acts of their time.
Exactly. I'm a J Geils fan, so that was like asking if the Stones ever did anything before Angie and Start Me Up.

That's why music halls of fame are dumb. With sports, the numbers pretty much tell the story. With music, are you going to honor those who made great music or those who had commercial success? They don't always overlap.
 
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This really is great. Elton has been huge and Bernie often gets overlooked, but not by Elton. Well deserved and high time!
One interesting thing is that on all but 1 or 2 of their collaborations, Bernie first writes the lyrics and Elton then writes the music. That’s the opposite of the way most songwriting duos do it — Rodgers and Hammerstein, Rodgers and Hart, Lerner and Lowe, Bernstein and Sondheim, etc.
 
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One interesting thing is that on all but 1 or 2 of their collaborations, Bernie first writes the lyrics and Elton then writes the music. That’s the opposite of the way most songwriting duos do it — Rodgers and Hammerstein, Rodgers and Hart, Lerner and Lowe, Bernstein and Sondheim, etc.
Bernie Taupin was a lyrical genius. EJ taking his pages and turning them into so many classics, especially in the eary 70's was a duo without peer at that time.

Madman, Honky Chateau, Caribou and Yellow Brick Road are so good but my personal favorite is Don't Shoot Me. " Daniel" And "Crocodile Rock" are the most recognizable from that album, but they barely scratch the surface of its excellence. "Have Mercy on the Criminal', "Teacher I Need You", "Elderberry Wine", " Blues for my Baby and Me" and, 'High Flying Bird" are all keepers.

Agree on The Association too.
 
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What happened to our annual ‘who will get in, who should have been nominated, who is the most deserving of individuals/groups that have never been inducted, who is the least deserving’ thread which typically ran multiple pages?

Did we miss it because they changed the date of the inductions to the middle of the FB season? Is it due to Owtahear’s absence? Did DT_Pitt lose his interest in rock music?

Anyway, my belated thoughts on this year’s nominees/inductees and related subjects.

(1) I thought they all were deserving. I was especially pleased with the induction of Bernie Taupin, the lyricist on almost every Elton John song. Cool guy. He and Elton are such opposites and yet they are a great team. Represented him in a lawsuit brought by ex-wife #1 (who he wrote “Tiny Dancer” about). Illustrates the validity of the saying “no good deed goes unpunished.” I believe they were married only when Bernie wrote the songs on one album. But in the divorce settlement he magnanimously gave her a half-interest in the income from songs on two other albums. That was enough to provide her with a large income for life; between $700k and $1M annually.

But, no good deed goes unpunished: When Elton and Bernie signed with a new entity to exploit their catalog, she sued because the new entity took a 1% higher commission. She claimed that violated Bernie’s fiduciary duty to maximize the income from the exploitation of the catalog.

The evidence, however, showed that her net vincome from the new entity was $150k to $250k higher annually under the new entity than it had been under the old entity. The new entity did a much better job and deserved that extra 1%.

That is not uncommon in the industry. AFTRA pays lower performance rights fees than BMI. But AFTRA does a better job than BMI of tracking performance rights and generally pays out more.

Lots of musicians would have settled the case and paid her something to avoid the legal fees. Bernie wouldn’t. On principle. Anyway, the judge understood. She got not one penny.

But, back to the HOF. With Willie Nelson the latest non-rocker in it, how can they keep John Denver, Johnny Cash, The Weavers and Woodie Guthrie out? Bernie Taupin made a pitch for Merle Haggard. I don’t know his music well enough to have an opinion.

I will let those far more knowledgeable than me about music after the 1980s pitch their own deserving entrants.

Let me tell you one group I was shocked to find out is in the HOF: “The Loving Spoonful.” Are you kidding me? One big hit: “Do You Believe in Magic?” and they are in the HOF. Could it have anything to do with the friendship between John Sebastian and Jann Wenner?

If they were going to induct any short-lived group from that period it should have been “The Association.” Two of the greatest love songs of all-time in “Cherish and “Never My Love” and a handful of other hits.
I’ll never lose interest!! Just a little behind the times. I’ll reply again soon with more informed thoughts,
 
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You really don’t know what a J Geils party is all about.They had 10 albums out before those two songs.Top 5 live acts of their time.
In circa 1972 we had a reel to reel party tape at the Fiji house, that was mostly J Geils. Whammer Jammer, First I look at the purse, and I’m Looking For a Love. Are 3 that I remember quickly….Zelda, go back and listen to some great rock and roll.
Also had a band member named Magic Dick…..LOL
 
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Rock is dead. Bands that would be considered "rock" 30 years ago are now country. The Eagles, Allman brothers, Wet Willie, Black Crows, the Band, etc would all be country music now.

The fact that Thin Lizzy, Boston, and the J Geils band are not in the "Rock" hall of fame but Willy Nelson is about to get in....speaks volume on how it is run by the corporations and not the fans.
Boston, one of the best and most played studio bands of all time.
 
The Swampers have to be in the HOF. If you are unfamiliar with the Swampers check out the documentary on The Muscle Shoals Sound Studio formed in 1969 by Barry Beckett (keyboards), Roger Hawkins (drums), Jimmy Johnson (guitar) and David Hood who have made more Platinum Albums than anyone.
 
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