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To get an assist what has to happen? Besides X and Trey (the backcourt you refer to) and Champ (Toney was playing hurt today) who on this team can do what it takes for those G's to get an assist?
I'll hang up and listen.
Maybe if our coach would run some actual sets and motion on O instead of the same tired predictable crap they have run all year. We don’t move at all without the ball. Do you actually think we do everything we can to get good shots in the half court? Please give me some example of the different actions JC is using to get guys good looks. What actions did he run to get Justin good looks after he came off a monster game and you knew the D would key on him? Can’t wait to see what examples you come up with...
There is a reason the announcers talked about how they can’t believe how long it took to get Justin a shot in the 2nd half. SMH
So you know what, I’ll put the assists on JC not the players. But what is the excuse for the turnovers? That’s a huge issue...8 turnovers from a starting PG. And Trey actually thinks he can play PG LOL. So 12 possessions we have no chance to score because these guys don’t know how to value the ball.
WE HAVE ONE CONSISTENT OFFENSIVE SET WITH A HIGH PICK AND ROLL!!! That's why we are very inefficient and have so many turnovers. You have actual offensive sets to reduce the amount of options and mistakes when you have players who are selfish and have low IQ. Hence why we lost 7 of our last 8.
Yep that is pretty much our O and that’s all on JC. I’m still waiting for Pittman72 to tell us about the different actions and motions JC is using to get guys open looks. But in running the high P/R as they have run all year I don’t recall these 2 having such a bad assist to turnover ratio in a long time. But maybe they have and I forgot about it.
I agree about low BB IQ and selfish play...especially the low BB IQ part. But there are a million different simple sets and motions JC can put in that even low BB IQ players can run. But no JC does nothing to help these guys out. I guarantee you these guys ran better and more complicated O in HS than they run at Pitt.
Can this possibly be true? Is anyone coaching at this level truly that simplistic in his approach? Was anyone aware of this at the time of his hire?
I knew Capel would have to succeed by recruiting, but don't you have to coach some?
Turnovers should include the ridiculous driving through it up that has no chance of going in. I know some do go in but willing to bet...cue shooting %...most don’t. Done for year can’t wait to see recruiting class and for October
No doubt JC has to do real well recruiting and hopefully some of the new guys like Hugley and Horton are big factors from the jump as that would help a hell of a lot. But yes you sure do have to coach and he needs to do a better job putting his players in position to succeed.
No one is expecting JC to work miracles and turn this around over night. But that is no excuse for the crap O we run. Weather it’s some type of motion O where you read the D and take advantage of mistakes or you run 50 set plays to perfection...but for Christ sake please run something else beside a high ball screen.
Kentucky and Calipari (known as a recruiter not some X & O genius) are known as a roll the ball out type of team with their dribble drive O and for the most part they are. But even they run some actual sets especially when their O is in a rut. Believe it or not they run more O than Pitt...that’s a fact and it’s crazy what that says about Pitt. When they want more movement they run a play called “Chest” (you will see their PG tapping his chest). Last year I recall PJ Washington getting a bunch of his looks off this set and I couldn’t help but think how this type of action would be perfect for a guy like Justin. He would catch the ball moving towards the hoop where he could get down hill or could take an open mid range J because of movement.
We run sets and offenses. We just ain't that good at executing. We are very bad at actually setting picks or running our man into picks.
But a lot if it is missing shots.
Worst 3 point shooting team in team history.
It literally doesn't matter what u run if you can't hit the 3 more consistently.
But a lot if it is missing shots.
Worst 3 point shooting team in team history.
It literally doesn't matter what u run if you can't hit the 3 more consistently.
Absolutely. We are easy to defend because we don’t shoot even respectably from the outside and we also have no bigs who pose an offensive threat inside. No amount of coaching scheme can fix that.
You are correct. Why can’t we set a proper screen and why can’t the guy with the ball set up the screen...whose job is it to teach this??? Survey says... it’s the responsibility of JC and staff. I don’t care what level our talent is or isn’t there is no excuse that this team can’t screen and set up a screen properly.
I’m gonna try and not be an asshole but is this on coach or players? Imo both
But more than anything or coaching, or things like that. I believe decision making, depth, low shooting % of 3s, was our main problem.
We need some deadweight gone.
pretty much learn how to do this in elementary school. If you are “teaching” this at the college level your team/players have a pretty low IQ.
When Pitt plays an inferior opponent and basically does anything it wants on offense and scores at will and easily shuts them down on defense is it that JC is a much better coach than the opposing teams coach ? Does he run plays on offense that the other coach has never seen , does he run defenses that the other coach has no idea on how to beat or is that he’s prepared his team better than the other guy ?
We all know that it’s because JCs players are just better athletes and bb players than the other coaches and guess what , right now JCs guys just aren’t as good bb players /athletes as those guys on most other ACC teams .
We know the coaches don’t teach these guys to make the same mistakes over and over again , to shoot poorly or to constantly turn the ball over etc . As the roster gets filled with better players I think it will amaze some on here how much better a coach JC will become .
His number one job from day he took the job over was to restock the roster with ACC level players . Maybe it’s a harder job than he anticipated , but his success will depend on whether he can convince enough ACC level bb players to come to Pitt . It’s just that simple if he can he will be successful and a great coach for Pitt if not then he was a bad hire .
We all know that it’s because JCs players are just better athletes and bb players than the other coaches and guess what , right now JCs guys just aren’t as good bb players /athletes as those guys on most other ACC teams .
We know the coaches don’t teach these guys to make the same mistakes over and over again , to shoot poorly or to constantly turn the ball over etc . As the roster gets filled with better players I think it will amaze some on here how much better a coach JC will become .
His number one job from day he took the job over was to restock the roster with ACC level players . Maybe it’s a harder job than he anticipated , but his success will depend on whether he can convince enough ACC level bb players to come to Pitt . It’s just that simple if he can he will be successful and a great coach for Pitt if not then he was a bad hire .
Biggest difference between us and the rest of the ACC is experience and depth.
NC State yesterday had 2 SRs/3 JRs/1 Soph take all of their minutes with one freshman playing 11 minutes(Bates) who at this point is just a rebounder and shot blocker.
As a contrast we had 44 minutes go to our 2 juniors and 1 senior who all of which are not ACC level players. We had a one legged sophomore play 31 minutes yesterday because of our lack of depth.
The same can be said for many of the other teams in the ACC.
I agree with Fsgolfdr that our coaching is going to get a lot better as our players get better and we actually have a front court that is ACC caliber and our players can execute better. I just hope our perimeter stays intact (x/Trey/Champ/Toney) long enough to allow them all to achieve success.
NC State yesterday had 2 SRs/3 JRs/1 Soph take all of their minutes with one freshman playing 11 minutes(Bates) who at this point is just a rebounder and shot blocker.
As a contrast we had 44 minutes go to our 2 juniors and 1 senior who all of which are not ACC level players. We had a one legged sophomore play 31 minutes yesterday because of our lack of depth.
The same can be said for many of the other teams in the ACC.
I agree with Fsgolfdr that our coaching is going to get a lot better as our players get better and we actually have a front court that is ACC caliber and our players can execute better. I just hope our perimeter stays intact (x/Trey/Champ/Toney) long enough to allow them all to achieve success.
I really think that a lot of the turnovers fall into 2 broad categories -- lack of execution/trust in teammates -- how many TO's were because off a dropped/fumbled pass or being in wrong position to receive (execution) and then also forcing the ball places it shouldn't be or trying to do too much because of the lack of trust due to the execution.
The games where we executed, magically our TO's and decision making looked great. Talent and continuity will fix most of our issues, we just need our guys to stick around.
This is correct. The people who moan and complain about the "lack of variety" in our offensive sets in the half court simply aren't very well-informed.
@Stephen_Gertz on twitter (who I believe writes for SBNation's Pitt site) posts detailed video clips of the different sets that we run.
Ive actually noticed more wrinkles as the season went on and some stuff that has worked.
I don't know. I would tend to believe rockypanther. He seems to know his stuff. Really gets into the weeds.
I know Bucs Dugout have "writers" that are college students.
The only game I was able to discern something different that worked was the GT home game. Other than that "mostly" looked like the same old same old.
I am certainly not a coach, but there are at least 4 posters on this board who claim to know what they are talking about that say specifically that Pitt is not running horns sets.
I'm not saying those posters are wrong, but if you watch the clips I posted, it's painfully clear that the Pitt team in those clips is running horns.
Could it be Pitt started running this set after those posters indicated we were not? These clips are late February?
I do know Joe the panther fan said Pitt ran plays on occasion for Murphy. I believe that.
That’s part of recruiting knowing if guys have good BB IQ or not. Don’t you think JC should know this when he recruits players? And if a college coach being paid millions can’t teach guys how to set a proper screen (it’s freaking elementary) and how to set up the screen then that coach is not a very good coach. It’s his job to teach them, you drill them non stop until they get it. TALENT has NOTHING to do with knowing how to set a screen, absolutely NOTHING. If JC can’t teach this then maybe he needs to find new assistants who can do it for him while he sticks to recruiting.
sure we we run a few other things at times. But the guy breaking down these clips does not know the difference between a horns set and a box set. The one set he called a horns set was clearly a box set. Ppl who don’t know BB like to call everything looking close to horns a horns set. There were some attempts at horns in the clips...key word is attempts because most everything shown was poorly run and not crisp at all.
Very few coaches run more set plays than Tom Izzo and MSU. Sure he has had NBA players but he has not had near the talent level of teams like Duke, Kentucky, North Carolina etc. The reason he has been to so many Final 4s and can hang with the super powers besides D, rebounding and toughness is they run their sets to perfection. Meaning perfect screens, reading screens, cuts, etc. He has stated numerous times it takes NO TALENT at all to set a good screen. JC does not understand this.
Jamie Dixon has some flaws like all coaches but he knows how to run a half court O. And he would work with what he had to develop players. I guarantee you he would have developed Brown into a way better post player by now and it’s a FACT he would have our guys setting proper screens.
One set JD ran to perfection for his top wing scorer was starting the guy on the right wing and running him down in to the paint...then he would fake going through as if he was going to come off a single double screen and then he would pop back out off the double screen to get the ball for an open J or curl to the hoop and several other counters. But the main thing about this set was you knew it was coming and we would get a good look almost every time because the execution was perfect. The double screens were set up perfect. Did we always get a bucket off this set...no but we almost always got a good look. And that’s what a good coach does is he puts his players in position to get a good shot.
If JC were putting his players in position to get good quality shots most possessions I could live with them missing shots. But way too many times our possessions end with X or Trey driving to the hoop throwing up a shot that has little to no chance because our half court execution is horrible.
If we don’t have enough talent yet...OK. If kids miss wide open shots...OK. But the problem is JC is not running good half court O and he can’t even teach (YES ITS HIS JOB) his guys how to set a proper screen. That’s bad an there is no excuse for it.
The good news is hopefully guys like Horton and Hugley can make up for the flaws JC has and we can improve next year. Because with more depth and talent I think we can and should play more pressure D. And for the most part (except for a few games) JC does a good job in getting good effort out of his guys. Despite my frustration I like JC and want him to get it done. I hope he upgrades his staff as that could make a big difference IMO.
so you attend all practices to know drilling them is not going on? Can’t bench the entire team.
The guy played 4 yrs at Duke and was starting guard as a freshman and then spent another 7 at Coach Ks side and he doesn’t know how to run a practice ! Really !
stupid post but sure I’ll engage. Why were Ben and Jamie able to teach their teams to screen? Why does Izzo and other top coaches? Why can the other local teams Duquesne and RMU set proper screens? Why can a decent HS team? It’s really not rocket science. It takes ZERO talent to set a good screen. But that’s why so many possessions end up with X throwing up a prayer.
I like JC but unlike you I’m not a blind apologist. So because you played at a big-time program and coached under a Hall of Fame coach you should automatically know what you’re doing? If that’s the case why was Magic Johnson an all time great a horrible coach? He played under Pat Riley you think he should then automatically be a great coach in your book. Michael Jordan probably the greatest ever played under Hall of Fame coaches and is one of the worst general managers in the history of basketball. He drafted Kwame brown and Adam Morrison… End of discussion!
This is dead on correct. And, to me, it just makes no sense. The screens were the worst I have ever seen. They are rarely set correctly when given the opportunity and the guards often either attack the screen wrong or do not let the screen set properly.
Someone noted above that Capel calls more sets than one would believe. That may be the case but the execution of basics, let alone plays themselves, leaves a ton to be desired.
The difference from a Jamie Dixon coached team to this Capel on simple execution is astounding.
I try to put myself in Capel's shoes and imagine what he would say because every time that he gets prompted with a serious question, he tends to have a very thoughtful and thorough response. I would guess that his answer would be that they lack depth for him to pull players for not executing things properly and that the schedule this year allowed for no breaks to stop and have teaching moments.
Regardless, it is amazing to me that they are not better at simple execution.
Also, I can still see Pitt running this set with Sam, Gil, Patterson, Moore, Gibbs, etc. Teams knew it was coming but the execution was flawless as noted.
And that’s what ppl don’t get. If we can’t make shots I actually understand. But at least put the team in position to get a good shot, if they miss he still did his job. Give the team a chance.
I still have not got an answer why it took 8 minutes into the 2nd half for Justin to get a shot. He came off a monster game and we were in the game at the half. Someone explain why JC ran nothing for Justin coming out of the half. Seriously would love to hear an explanation but there is none, not acceptable at all.
As you said the execution by Jamie compared to JC is astounding. With Jamie you knew his teams would always be fundamentally sound, would set screens, be in proper position as they were taught properly.
Spot on. You and others remember it because you know the game and we ran it a million times so it’s impossible to forget if you follow Pitt and know the game. This play almost always got a good look because of perfect screens, coming off the shoulders of the double screen...as you said perfect execution.
What’s funny is this is not a difficult play and it would be a perfect set for Justin. He would get buckets out of this set just like all the guys you listed above.
After the game, Justin said that he was gassed in the second half. I did not see them try to run anything for him and I thought his substitution was at a really peculiar time. But, maybe he was done physically I guess.
My problem with Capel and the sets has more to do with finding ways to manipulate the game by slowing runs and stopping droughts by getting guys to the line. They often would run their motion, maybe call a play that was not run well but they fortunately have kids that could get good shots but just not convert. They head through a 5-7 minute droughts very consistently.
It is not that Jamie's teams and that a lot of others do not go through these things, but coaches generally find ways to get guys to the line and/or find them easier shots. And, that was non-existent at times with this crew. Or, the easier shots would occur from Champagnie being able to find space, more a natural skill/feel than a coaching play.
With guys like X and Trey, they should live at the line. They did as freshmen. As sophomores, not so much. I think JWF, his lack of presence, made a difference. But was it that big?
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