...and two of them got the top two players in the class. They are Louisville, Georgia, Memphis, UConn and Xavier. I know Pitt was a dumpster fire prior to this year, but UConn and Georgia weren’t exactly world-class. In fact, all of these schools had their issues. I bring this up because while I like who Capel is able to attract with regard to talking to recruits, none of them seem to be beating down the door to play here, and I am wondering how these schools overcame their problems and the fact that their new coaches didn’t have as much time as others to recruit? Is it a “bag-man” thing, or is Pitt just cursed forever? I also know we need to be patient, but I wonder why other schools don’t have to be.
5 schools with first year coaches have top 20 classes for next year
- Thread starter fnihost
- Start date
It is certainly still possible that we wind up with a top 20 class when recruiting is done. We have so many open spots and aside from a couple of grad transfers we can still land 4 or 5 top 100 quality 2019 players.
UConn won a title in 2013 and a handful in the early 2000s they’ve were not at the rock bottom we were. Even with the talent Ollie left that’s what makes Hurley’s poor start in the aac eye opening IMO
I think we will see a few higher ranked kids flip to Pitt after the season. Just a gut feeling, that is why you never stop recruiting your targets until they sign.
If you were to go back and restack Capel's first class at Pitt- you are not going to find 20 better classes last year.
Pitt had the 32nd ranked recruiting class last year, but that's with Xavier Johnson ranked all the way down at 232nd overall. I don't understand the point you're attempting to make. Those first year coaches got great recruiting classes. Our first year coach...also got a great recruiting class. Some of the examples you're using for programs that have "had their issues" are ridiculous. I mean, seriously, Xavier? Are you actually asking why it's easier to recruit to Xavier than a Pitt program coming off of a winless season in the ACC? You pay lip service to Pitt being a dumpster fire, but you clearly don't understand how much worse the perception of the program was. It was a foregone conclusion that Louisville would recover from their scandal, but there was no such confidence that Pitt would return to their winning ways with a coach like Stallings. Capel immediately reversed that perception and brought in an exceptional recruiting class. What's the problem?
Louisville won a title. UConn multiple titles. Memphis played for a title and has a great alum as coach. Creans been to a final four. Xavier has steady success. Capel had to resurrect a dead program in the toughest conference. End this thread.
Well said. Even when those schools have problems, they still recruit well (perhaps not Georgia, but the others without a doubt). Josh Pastner was a terrible coach, but Memphis' program always had a fair amount of pull and was located in a talent rich area. Kevin Stallings was a terrible coach and Pitt's program doesn't have those inherent advantages, so it was a complete shit show. The original post is just...so completely off the mark with regard to understanding the landscape of college basketball, it blows my mind.
Had Ollie stayed a couple more seasons they may have hit rock bottom. That program started on a serious downward slide a few years ago and he left it a mess.
Not propping up Hurley, but he has not done a bad job on the court this year, they’re a little better than I thought they’d be.
Kevin Ollie is the worst coach in any sport that I can ever remember winning a title.
Memphis is an outlier on this list for multiple reasons. No clue yet if Hardaway can coach or not, but with his local AAU ties, NBA experience, and the area being stocked with talent they are going to land top classes every year he’s there.
So are you saying Pitt should have hired a coach that had more of those things going for him?
Well two of those three things don't really apply to Pitt. Having ties to the Western PA AAU scene, such as it is, wouldn't really help much, and this area doesn't produce nearly as many high level basketball players as Memphis does. So the two schools situations are somewhat apples to oranges.
Which I guess is why he called them an outlier.
No, he is not.
If Pitt had never hired Stallings and hired a Capel type instead when Dixon left we wouldn't even be having this discussion.
The Pitt "brand" was severely damaged and nearly completely killed by the outcome of the Stallings hire. The perception of Pitt basketball was far far worse when Capel took over than that of any of those schools mentioned as a result of the Stallings complete failure.
I was always shocked at the lack of support for successful basketball programs at football schools. My only other experience was for the Gators coming off their championships and there were always plenty of tickets cheap, empty seats, and lack of sell-outs aside from Kentucky. It is likely one reason Billy Donovan left. Some schools no matter the success will always be either a football or basketball school.
Pitt doesn’t have a basketball brand.
Let’s start with that.
The program was destroyed by Stallings- nobody reasonable could argue that.
But Pitt itself isn’t marketable in some distinct way -
It’s always dependent on the coach
Memphis is easy to understand. The Memphis area had several top 50 recruits including #1 or #2 depending on the recruiting service. Penny coached these kids in AAU and HS so him getting these kids is understandable. Georgia getting Edwards really boosted their ranking and Edwards is just down the road and said he wanted to play close to home. Louisville is a blue blood, regardless of their "checkered" past. Xavier hired from within so Steele has probably been recruiting these kids for 2+ years. The Hurley name means something in the NE and that's where his recruits are from.
Unfortunately, the kids Capel was on his last year at Duke (current HS seniors) aren't the kids that are coming here. Face it. We are not getting top 25 kids unless there are extraordinary circumstances. I also don't see where the assistants could fill the immediate void.
Recruiting starts when kids are sophomores. So this year's and last year's senior class is a washout. Most top kids have formed bonds with a couple of coaches and programs. Most are also to busy to open their recruiting up after they pare the list down to a select few. If a school recruits over them or coach/assistant coach leaves they have 2 or 3 fall backs.
This is why patience is needed. Yes you can turn a program around in 2 years but it is based on recruiting the top kids. We're not there yet. The 2020 and 2021 classes are where we will see where this program is going. We will have 2 years of"tape" of how Capel coaches to show the kids how they fit in to the system. We won't have superstar players (although a couple could grow in to All ACC) that kids won't think they can beat out. And there should be some excitement around the program.
Just hope everyone is patient.
Unfortunately, the kids Capel was on his last year at Duke (current HS seniors) aren't the kids that are coming here. Face it. We are not getting top 25 kids unless there are extraordinary circumstances. I also don't see where the assistants could fill the immediate void.
Recruiting starts when kids are sophomores. So this year's and last year's senior class is a washout. Most top kids have formed bonds with a couple of coaches and programs. Most are also to busy to open their recruiting up after they pare the list down to a select few. If a school recruits over them or coach/assistant coach leaves they have 2 or 3 fall backs.
This is why patience is needed. Yes you can turn a program around in 2 years but it is based on recruiting the top kids. We're not there yet. The 2020 and 2021 classes are where we will see where this program is going. We will have 2 years of"tape" of how Capel coaches to show the kids how they fit in to the system. We won't have superstar players (although a couple could grow in to All ACC) that kids won't think they can beat out. And there should be some excitement around the program.
Just hope everyone is patient.
