ACC Indoor Track Champs

[CMUandPitt]

Underway. Extremely underwhelming so far for the Panthers. Wolter won the Hep (not a surprise) but some of the prelims performances in the other events are just downright bad.

I don't know if Webb has a full set of scholarships, but with all due disrespect to Capel, this is the worst Men's team we field by quite a large distance.

And I know -- no facilities, cold weather state, and so on. I hear you. But it shouldn't be this bad.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Underway. Extremely underwhelming so far for the Panthers. Wolter won the Hep (not a surprise) but some of the prelims performances in the other events are just downright bad.

I don't know if Webb has a full set of scholarships, but with all due disrespect to Capel, this is the worst Men's team we field by quite a large distance.

And I know -- no facilities, cold weather state, and so on. I hear you. But it shouldn't be this bad.

Hey there’s hope. It can’t be as bad as mens soccer was at one time and they went from worst D1 program to national power by making one good hire.

 

[CMUandPitt]

Hey there’s hope. It can’t be as bad as mens soccer was at one time and they went from worst D1 program to national power by making one good hire.

Oh, for sure. Like I said, there's absolutely no reason for them to be this bad.

Better coaching, a recruiting/team composition strategy, even a minor upgrade to facilities would do a ton of difference.

I'm biased, but the coach at CMU (Aldrich) is literally the throws coach for Team USA. Give him a full allotment of scholarships and at the very least he gets you 60 points out of the field alone. Webb's current strategy, so far as I can tell, is to recruit two-star level athletes, not develop them, and I guess tell ADHL about how fast Lee McRae was thirty years ago.

 

[CMUandPitt]

Forgot to update this -- Men finished 11th (out of 15th), Women finished dead last. Unacceptable.

Apart from Wolter in the Hep, I don't see a single athlete right now that is likely to compete at the NCAA meet. Maybe Walker in the WT. What I do see however is a total lack of improvement year-over-year, recruits that come in with marginal times and then get worse, and a complete lack of identity/recruiting strategy.

As I've said before, I honestly don't know how Webb keeps his job. It's as bad as tennis was before they shut it all down. If he's got a full allotment of scholarships -- and I'd be surprised if he didn't, given ADHL's commitment to Olympic Sports -- it's hard to imagine a team being this bad.

The ACC is not a tough conference. It's arguable, but it's probably the weakest of all of the P5s. Maybe Big 12 is softer. The team is Men's Basketball bad right now.

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

Forgot to update this -- Men finished 11th (out of 15th), Women finished dead last. Unacceptable.

Apart from Wolter in the Hep, I don't see a single athlete right now that is likely to compete at the NCAA meet. Maybe Walker in the WT. What I do see however is a total lack of improvement year-over-year, recruits that come in with marginal times and then get worse, and a complete lack of identity/recruiting strategy.

As I've said before, I honestly don't know how Webb keeps his job. It's as bad as tennis was before they shut it all down. If he's got a full allotment of scholarships -- and I'd be surprised if he didn't, given ADHL's commitment to Olympic Sports -- it's hard to imagine a team being this bad.

The ACC is not a tough conference. It's arguable, but it's probably the weakest of all of the P5s. Maybe Big 12 is softer. The team is Men's Basketball bad right now.

They literally have no facilities. No outdoor track and for all practical purposes, no indoor track. How can the brother recruit?

 

[mike412]

You clearly are the most knowledgeable person on this subject. Who are potential coaches who would be good hires? Would we have to go the way Arkansas did when they became a track power, with foreign athletes?

 

[CMUandPitt]

They literally have no facilities. No outdoor track and for all practical purposes, no indoor track. How can the brother recruit?

I hear you, but I don't think it has to be this bad, especially relative to how marginally competitive the team used to be. If facilities are such a concern -- and to some extent, I agree -- then recruit and build your team around the facilities you do have. No track, fine. Go all-in on jumpers and throwers then, both of whom can be trained full-time at the Field House.

 

[CMUandPitt]

You clearly are the most knowledgeable person on this subject. Who are potential coaches who would be good hires? Would we have to go the way Arkansas did when they became a track power, with foreign athletes?

I'm biased, but the proof is very much in the pudding with coaching -- look for schools that win championships, the caliber of athletes they bring in, and how they develop.

Just as a quick example, take a look at Justin Kinseth at Wisconsin-Oshkosh, a D3 school. Cold-weather state, not a ton of track talent internally. But he's got 6 (!) 60m sprinters faster than Pitt's fastest; the fastest athlete at Oshkosh had a high school best of 10.87 in the 100, whereas Pitt's fastest ran a 10.59.

PA is actually a decently fertile recruiting ground; in the past few years, you've been Ayden Owens, Marlee Starliper, Gionna Quarzo, Dom Perretta, John Lewis, Madison Wiltrout, Jordan Geist, and Billy Stanley come out of PA, all of whom would have easily been five-star, top-20 recruits. Now the poster above is right, without facilities, it is basically impossible to get those athletes here. What you instead need to do then is create a team identity, recruit to that, and yes, go international if you have to.

 

[ThePanthers]

I'm hoping things improve when they build the new facilities in a few years. A decent coach is not going to want to come here with what they have right now. And I'm sure the jumpers, etc want to participate with a winning program, not just one aspect of it.

Look at soccer, baseball, softball. I mean it was ignored for years and outside of a handful of sesaons all combined, they were bottom of the pack. New facilities came into place, which lead to better coaches, which lead to better recruiting, and now we are competitive or have at least improved.

I think Heather and the university recognize this, and based on VH, are going to put in the investment. But it will take patience.

 

[CrazyPaco]

I hear you, but I don't think it has to be this bad, especially relative to how marginally competitive the team used to be. If facilities are such a concern -- and to some extent, I agree -- then recruit and build your team around the facilities you do have. No track, fine. Go all-in on jumpers and throwers then, both of whom can be trained full-time at the Field House.

There are no throwing or jumping facilities either. Surely you don't mean the dirt Pitt in the basement of the fieldhouse. You can't train throwers or jumpers full time in the field house either.

 

[CMUandPitt]

There are no throwing or jumping facilities either. Surely you don't mean the dirt Pitt in the basement of the fieldhouse. You can't train throwers or jumpers full time in the field house either.

Yeah, let me rephrase: there's a lot of things throwers and jumpers can work on (plyo, lifting, mobility, etc.) that don't necessarily require the same footprint as training a hurdler or a long sprinter might.

Neither are optimal or anything close to it, but I'd generally wager given what we DO have -- especially during the indoor season -- a field-heavy team would be less disadvantaged.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Yeah, let me rephrase: there's a lot of things throwers and jumpers can work on (plyo, lifting, mobility, etc.) that don't necessarily require the same footprint as training a hurdler or a long sprinter might.

Neither are optimal or anything close to it, but I'd generally wager given what we DO have -- especially during the indoor season -- a field-heavy team would be less disadvantaged.

They're probably actually using the Cost Center more than the Fitz, but until Pitt gets any T&F facilities, they're lucky not to be finishing dead last in the ACC on both sides.

Can you imagine showing any recruit a joke of a program with no facilities that screams zero respect or support. IMO, per your original post, their finishes actually should be worse. Until they get both an indoor and outdoor facility, no serious T&F recruit is going to take Pitt seriously.

 

[CMUandPitt]

They're probably actually using the Cost Center more than the Fitz, but until Pitt gets any T&F facilities, they're lucky not to be finishing dead last in the ACC on both sides.

Can you imagine showing any recruit a joke of a program with no facilities that screams zero respect or support. IMO, per your original post, their finishes actually should be worse. Until they get both an indoor and outdoor facility, no serious T&F recruit is going to take Pitt seriously.

You think both? I think to compete nationally, yeah, that's probably right. But within the ACC, how many schools actually have an indoor facility?

VT, ND, Clemson, Wake for sure. Miami, FSU and GT probably don't need one. UNC, NCSt, BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, no.

But your point obviously stands. I do really wish they had converted the Shadyside Armory into an indoor track facility given there's nearly none of them in the area. I know CMU is renovating Skibo from top to bottom but I don't believe there's currently plans to put even a 200m flat in.

 

[CrazyPaco]

You think both? I think to compete nationally, yeah, that's probably right. But within the ACC, how many schools actually have an indoor facility?

VT, ND, Clemson, Wake for sure. Miami, FSU and GT probably don't need one. UNC, NCSt, BC, Syracuse, Pitt, Louisville, no.

But your point obviously stands. I do really wish they had converted the Shadyside Armory into an indoor track facility given there's nearly none of them in the area.

All of the ACC schools at least have an outdoor facility. Louisville uses an indoor football facility that has a 4-lane 100m track and pits, etc. Syracuse used to use the Dome for indoor....regardless..no one is in as bad as shape as Pitt.

Pitt Indoor facility is coming with Victory Heights. Hopefully they don't do it on the cheap because Western PA really needs an indoor facility and they could actually make some revenue from hosting all sorts of indoor meets.

 

[UptownPrivileges]

What happened to track in Fitzgerald fh?

 

[CrazyPaco]

What happened to track in Fitzgerald fh?

It's there, but has been wholey inadequate as an indoor facility for 30 years.

 

[CMUandPitt]

It's there, but has been wholey inadequate as an indoor facility for 30 years.

Pac would know the dimensions better than me but yeah, not sure with the current configuration you'd even be able to put in a regulation size 200m flat track, just from the amount of corner radius you'd need. And then you'd have to figure out how to get sprinting lanes, jumping pits, etc in there -- it would take an entire gut.

It's barely adequate for training, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it for any serious athletes or anyone under a long sprinter.

I need to go ask Coach Aldrich if there's plans to put an indoor track in the new rebuild of Skibo.

 

[pittchagg]

Pac would know the dimensions better than me but yeah, not sure with the current configuration you'd even be able to put in a regulation size 200m flat track, just from the amount of corner radius you'd need. And then you'd have to figure out how to get sprinting lanes, jumping pits, etc in there -- it would take an entire gut.

It's barely adequate for training, and I certainly wouldn't recommend it for any serious athletes or anyone under a long sprinter.

I need to go ask Coach Aldrich if there's plans to put an indoor track in the new rebuild of Skibo.

From what’s been released, I think I remember seeing that there’s an indoor track in the CMU renovation, but it’s more along the lines of what you’d see at a larger high school (track on the mezzanine level with the courts down below). Don’t think it’s competition level, and is probably shared with the general student population.

 

[CMUandPitt]

From what’s been released, I think I remember seeing that there’s an indoor track in the CMU renovation, but it’s more along the lines of what you’d see at a larger high school (track on the mezzanine level with the courts down below). Don’t think it’s competition level, and is probably shared with the general student population.

Got it.

Pac is right -- there isn't anything close to one in the city. Hell, I'm beginning to think of this as a business opportunity! Lord knows growing up I played indoor soccer at like ten different facilities and they were all just basically airport hangars with turf.