Why would the top guys choose Pitt over those programs. Unless you hire an elite coach or guy as coach that was truly an elite level wrestler you have to prove you can develop guys before the top kids come.
ACCN Wrestling Analyst
- Thread starter TFBaum
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Why would the top guys choose Pitt over those programs. Unless you hire an elite coach or guy as coach that was truly an elite level wrestler you have to prove you can develop guys before the top kids come.
They are ranked 4th. They have placed top 5 in the NCAA tournament. Their entire team is ranked individually. How are they not a force?
Seems like a lot of people on this forum don’t keep up with college wrestling. Someone said Mekhi Lewis wrestles for nc state earlier haha
Because they have no chance of winning an NC this year and will never win an NC. There are 4 tier 1 programs, NC State is a step behind them and I would also put them behind Michigan and Cornell.
NC St is not a blueblood. Beating Iowa, OSU(either), or PSU is beating a blue blood. NCSt would probably only win 2 matches against Iowa and both would be close.
NCSt is a good team, but their history does not make them a bluebloo. They have 2 top wrestlers in the Hidley brothers and several other pretty good guys at most other weights, but no other contenders for the NCAA’s.
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Agree they have no history. That went back to the point I was making earlier. Also agree that Iowa is by far the best team this year. However, the latest poll has NC State now #3. How is that not a force? They are ahead of psu. It’s 1. Iowa, 2. Michigan, and 3. NC state. This is the NWCA poll. national wrestling coaches association. Are those rankings wrong?
Yes the Hidlays are their best wrestlers but their 125 is right there with him. Some rankings have him as high as #2.
Those are dual meet rankings. Tournament rankings put them behind PSU, Mich,, OSU, Nebraska,and of course Iowa.
NCSt is a very good team and I would love to see Pitt get to that level. That is the level that Pitt should get to.
as far as Comacho goes, he is very good, but there is only one contender at 125. That is Lee unless someone shoots him.
They will be behind PSU after this weekend.
One season does not make you a force. It does make you a really good program but to a force means you can envision that team winning an NC at some point and that will never happen for NC State.
PSU barely beat I ranked Indiana today. Other teams have shut out Indiana. Psu supposed new star carter Starocci lost to someone I haven’t heard of. So looks like NC State won’t be behind them after this weekend
We need to ask ourselves how NC State went from a nothing program with no history to a top 5 program with the longest dual meet win streak in the country in less than 10 years. And, why at nearly every weight class they not only dominated us on the scoreboard but their wrestlers were much stronger, better conditioned and more technically proficient. I have seen Pitt wrestlers beaten before, but I have never seen a team which was so physically dominated.
We need to ask why a UVA team which never has been a powerhouse also appeared, as some on here have noted, stronger and better conditioned. Why isn’t Cole Mathews developing? Why does he still have the same one offensive move, a front headlock, that he had in high school. Did that have anything to do with Steen’s flip? Why is Micky’s offense still so limited in his third year in the program?
And, when we wrestle UNC and VT, I’m afraid we are going to have to ask ourselves those same questions.
The idea that the big guys win because they have the best and most former national champions wrestling in their wrestling clubs and training on campus might apply to the top three teams in the country. PSU, Iowa and Oklahoma State. But, it doesn’t apply to any ACC school. Yet.
The idea that we can’t get the absolute best kids out of Pennsylvania because when the big guys want them, they get them may apply to one or two wrestlers a year. But, it doesn’t explain how NC State got the Hidleys and Short and how they are redshirting a recruit ftom PA who was ranked #2 nationally by Intermat last year. It doesn’t explain how VT got the PIAA 3A Hwt champion, who was ranked much higher nationally than the Pitt Hwt recruit. And how UNC has built a more solid program than Pitt in one less year.
There are a lot of problems with this program that can’t be excused. I watched UNC wrestle NC State yesterday. They lost pretty convincingly and won only 3 matches. But, they were much more competitive than we were. In Gavin’s 4th year, we are likely to finish 5th in the ACC and our trajectory is going down. Not up.
We need to ask why a UVA team which never has been a powerhouse also appeared, as some on here have noted, stronger and better conditioned. Why isn’t Cole Mathews developing? Why does he still have the same one offensive move, a front headlock, that he had in high school. Did that have anything to do with Steen’s flip? Why is Micky’s offense still so limited in his third year in the program?
And, when we wrestle UNC and VT, I’m afraid we are going to have to ask ourselves those same questions.
The idea that the big guys win because they have the best and most former national champions wrestling in their wrestling clubs and training on campus might apply to the top three teams in the country. PSU, Iowa and Oklahoma State. But, it doesn’t apply to any ACC school. Yet.
The idea that we can’t get the absolute best kids out of Pennsylvania because when the big guys want them, they get them may apply to one or two wrestlers a year. But, it doesn’t explain how NC State got the Hidleys and Short and how they are redshirting a recruit ftom PA who was ranked #2 nationally by Intermat last year. It doesn’t explain how VT got the PIAA 3A Hwt champion, who was ranked much higher nationally than the Pitt Hwt recruit. And how UNC has built a more solid program than Pitt in one less year.
There are a lot of problems with this program that can’t be excused. I watched UNC wrestle NC State yesterday. They lost pretty convincingly and won only 3 matches. But, they were much more competitive than we were. In Gavin’s 4th year, we are likely to finish 5th in the ACC and our trajectory is going down. Not up.
Or you can ask when was the last time Pitt had a guy ranked 4th in the country like Phillippi. Maybe his offense doesn’t please you but he sure does win a lot and obviously earned a high ranking. Or when was the last time Pitt had 3 guys like Wentzel, Phillippi and Nino tanked in the top ten in the same season. Pitt hasn’t had a top 5 team since the 1950’s. Gavins had the job for four years and already improved the state of the program. Popolizio has been at nc state for about a decade now. Robie has been at vtech for almost 15 years now (most of it as assistant), Garland has been at uva for 15 years. Coleman Scott has been at UNC for 7 years (one year as assistant there). Maybe give it some time. I think we were spoiled with Pitt getting much better in year two and three of Gavin’s time here but that was really just due to Phillipi and Demetrius transferring in. They have just now started to get better recruits. And people in the know know the Steen thing had nothing to do with the program.
Actually Pitt had top 5 team in 70’s when Dave Adams coached, but that was short lived as drugs devastated the team.
They didn't have a single practice for 17 days with a young lineup, they will be #2 in the country in a couple of weeks.
Sure they didn’t. I think you mean they didn’t practice on campus for 17 days.
Thom67, no Pitt wrestling team finished in the top 5 in the 1970’s. Highest finish of that decade was 8th in 1970. 1971-79 they were outside of the top ten. Last time they finished in the top 5 was in the 50’s
There were some informal workouts but they were not at the level of intensity or workload of a D1 practice. It s really hard to stay in wrestling shape without a regular practice schedule.
Correct. I was thinking of the 70 team which was a top 5 team that finished 8 in the ncaa. Would have finished in top 5 if Ralph Cindich would have wrestled in the tournament. Mark Payne also did not go. Both would have placed high.
Like what others have stated wrestling is a sport where you can quite literally buy a great chance at an ncaa title. If Pitt were willing to shell out a million a year for a Sanderson like penn state did. Or throw that number or close to it at Brands. The problem is as much as I and others on this board love wrestling it’s basically a non revenue generator, most schools are probably in the red, so to shell out that type of money you need a huge booster commitment
They only gave Cael $500,000 a year. Otherwise you are right on. Iowa does bring in 10,000 fans per dual meet and they are paying customer.
The history of wrestling. Since 1929 only 12 teams have won a National Championship in wrestling.
Arizona St- 1
Cornell - 1
Indiana- 1
Iowa- 23
Iowa St- 8
Michigan St- 1
Minnesota- 3
Northern Iowa- 1 I believe they became Iowa St.
Ohio State- 1
Oklahoma- 7
Oklahoma St- 32
Penn St- 9
Lets face reality, yes the money helped Penn St win those 9 but those same coaches and resources at Virginia/Illionis/Northwestern/ Etc would not have worked as well as Penn St. my .02 for what it is worth.
mike412 is one of the biggest Debbie Downers out there. Die hard Pitt? Yes. Debbie Downer? Yes.
IMO, Pitt should be competing for ACC championships. I think once the Victory Heights arena is built in a few years and we improve our facilities, that should help. And we'll just have to keep pushing, recruiting, and hopefully build up the wrestling club.
I also don't understand that the trajectory has to go up every single year. If you are building a PROGRAM you need patience and there will be ups and downs.
My only concern is whether the pandemic will have a negative impact on the mucho bucks needed for the Victory Heights project.
NIU used to be Iowa State Teachers College when they won the NCAA championship in 1950. They had 3 NCAA champs that year. The school is in Cedar Falls IA.
Yeah, hopefully it is still in the works. Figures, Pitt finally moves forward with a large capital campaign to finally take care of the olympic sports and a pandemic comes. We can't have nice things.
But per the website, it still looks to be moving forward, maybe just slightly delayed overall. Maybe guys like bwh05 can chime in, but that seems to be the plan.
I heard they want to break ground next summer, not this summer. Need the chiller plant to be completed first.
Thanks for the information. This summer would be better, but I'll take next summer.
You guys know that Pat Popolizio's brother runs Journeyman wrestling club which is a larger version of Young Guns - right. That primed the pump and now he running on momentum.
"The current N.C. State roster also has Ballston Spa graduates Jake Cook and Tyler Barnes, while the universities’ alumni list features among others Duanesburg product and two-time NCAA champ Nick Gwiazdowski. Those three also competed for Journeymen, which was founded by Frank Popolizio, the brother of N.C. State head coach Pat Popolizio. "
The link below is worth the read:
Wrestling champ Poulin of Shenendehowa commits to N.C. State | The Daily Gazette
UNC has three Olympians in the room
And...from a 1980's "Amateur Wrestling News":
Was it Carver's money that turned the corner for Iowa? Or was it Gables intensity on the mat, which carried over into his coaching? Or was it the enticement of numerous graduate assistant standouts to stay in Iowa City and form a strong freestyle club and help perpetuate the varsity growth? Which of these made Iowa what it is today?
Perhaps a combination of those strengths is the real answer. Whatever, it became obvious by 1979 that the Hawks were firmly in command.
"The current N.C. State roster also has Ballston Spa graduates Jake Cook and Tyler Barnes, while the universities’ alumni list features among others Duanesburg product and two-time NCAA champ Nick Gwiazdowski. Those three also competed for Journeymen, which was founded by Frank Popolizio, the brother of N.C. State head coach Pat Popolizio. "
The link below is worth the read:
Wrestling champ Poulin of Shenendehowa commits to N.C. State | The Daily Gazette
UNC has three Olympians in the room
And...from a 1980's "Amateur Wrestling News":
Was it Carver's money that turned the corner for Iowa? Or was it Gables intensity on the mat, which carried over into his coaching? Or was it the enticement of numerous graduate assistant standouts to stay in Iowa City and form a strong freestyle club and help perpetuate the varsity growth? Which of these made Iowa what it is today?
Perhaps a combination of those strengths is the real answer. Whatever, it became obvious by 1979 that the Hawks were firmly in command.
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Not sure why people are complaining about a top 20 team that has lots of young guys on it.
I'm not going to even comment on the freshman. There is a big jump in physical maturity, emotional maturity, adjustment to college life. I see the young guys still fighting...and they have some talent there. Enjoy watching the process.
Micki is doing what he needs to do to break through. I guarantee Gavin and Co are in his ear telling him he isn't likely going to win a national championship just riding people out. If he is truly championship caliber, he needs to expect more from himself. I think I see Micki is pushing himself to score points and try to be dominant but personality and old (very successful) habits die hard. Its not so easy to make big, overnight jumps when you start our #4 in the country.
Cole gets tired because he thinks/worries too much. When he is forced to scramble and lets his body go, he is quick and strong and as capable as anyone in the country. Maybe he learns to trust himself. Maybe he just gets sick and tired of letting himself lose to people he should dominate and says ENOUGH. He is only a sophomore.
Jake has improved significantly and he hasn't hit a plateau to my eyes. He still needs more set-ups to push the pace but he has a style that is hard to wrestle and is the kind of guy that can get hot at NCAA's.
Are you guys trying to tell me Harvey hasn't improved? He has always been a battler but do you remember his technique as a freshman? His problem is he is good enough now that people need to pay attention and he is getting scouted and game planned hard.
On that game planning note, I am curious to see if the country learned what Trimple from NC State uncovered about Nino (not that there are many 6'4" guys with a Greco background). Can Nino learn to finish quickly and stay off his knees or is everyone going to start stand up tall and wait to drop their weight on him? Someone here was critical of his improvement but he is up a weight this year and he just beat the #3 (or #1 depending) in the country!
Pitt just needs to get some guys on the podium. Believe me, the rest of the country is fully Pitt has not put in the effort over the decades. And hoping like hell there isnt a big donor or a national champion on the horizon.
I'm not going to even comment on the freshman. There is a big jump in physical maturity, emotional maturity, adjustment to college life. I see the young guys still fighting...and they have some talent there. Enjoy watching the process.
Micki is doing what he needs to do to break through. I guarantee Gavin and Co are in his ear telling him he isn't likely going to win a national championship just riding people out. If he is truly championship caliber, he needs to expect more from himself. I think I see Micki is pushing himself to score points and try to be dominant but personality and old (very successful) habits die hard. Its not so easy to make big, overnight jumps when you start our #4 in the country.
Cole gets tired because he thinks/worries too much. When he is forced to scramble and lets his body go, he is quick and strong and as capable as anyone in the country. Maybe he learns to trust himself. Maybe he just gets sick and tired of letting himself lose to people he should dominate and says ENOUGH. He is only a sophomore.
Jake has improved significantly and he hasn't hit a plateau to my eyes. He still needs more set-ups to push the pace but he has a style that is hard to wrestle and is the kind of guy that can get hot at NCAA's.
Are you guys trying to tell me Harvey hasn't improved? He has always been a battler but do you remember his technique as a freshman? His problem is he is good enough now that people need to pay attention and he is getting scouted and game planned hard.
On that game planning note, I am curious to see if the country learned what Trimple from NC State uncovered about Nino (not that there are many 6'4" guys with a Greco background). Can Nino learn to finish quickly and stay off his knees or is everyone going to start stand up tall and wait to drop their weight on him? Someone here was critical of his improvement but he is up a weight this year and he just beat the #3 (or #1 depending) in the country!
Pitt just needs to get some guys on the podium. Believe me, the rest of the country is fully Pitt has not put in the effort over the decades. And hoping like hell there isnt a big donor or a national champion on the horizon.
Also NC State also gives out a ton of financial and academic aid to out of state students. Pitt doesn’t do any of that.
they’re a very well financed AD and also recently renovated the Reynolds coliseum. Most of you know what state the Fitz is in currently, better that it’s been but behind the times.
I’m not surprised they got good fast.
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To be a Pitt fan you have to complain about everything and move the goalpost on what it will take you to donate.
I live 45 minutes from Shenendahowa High School, so this is a very interesting article to read. NC State is getting a really good one in Stevo. I remember Pat Popolizio in high school, so he is certainly a local boy who has made good in the wrestling world.
Several years ago, Pitt participated in a tournament hosted by Journeyman, which was a rare opportunity for me to get to see Pitt wrestling live.
Former Pitt wrestlers Carl Fronhofer and Dan Stine are from this area.
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