hugely is an out lier to argument. the bad kids argument applies to to the transfers they were just bad seeds in that argument thst capel has no accountability in recruiting or coaching. all the transfers is on the kids not the coach is non sense
Again, I want a roll call with explanation. When Capel was hired....what were your thoughts?
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They weren’t bad seeds or bad kids
That’s stupid things people on this forum say and shouldn’t be taken seriously
It’s sour grapes rationalization
We would have been a better team with trey mcgowens last year
We’d be better with Xavier and Toney next year too.
Those are good players
There is not one college basketball program worth its ranking who isn't paying players. That should now be obvious.
Football wise, the single biggest mistake was letting Jackie Sherrill go. He stays, likely we win the National title again in 1982 and not Penn State. And likely through the 80's we become "the U" and not Miami. Remember back then, Pitt recruited nationally, not just relied on local kids.
Agreed. A major reason why WVU is a better program than Pitt in hoops is because we have a recruiting home base under Huggs. That won’t exist once he leaves. He doesn’t get the best players in OH but he gets system guys. Pitt doesn’t have a recruiting base...just like WVU when Huggs departs.
Building a successful program involves building a culture and developing an identity. That requires being somewhat selective about the types of kids you're bringing into the program and getting them to buy in to what you're trying to do. To do that well you have to have strong and honest relationships with H.S. coaches. If they don't fit the identity, and don't buy into the culture, the program isn't going anywhere. The identity might be offensive, defensive, toughness, physicality , all of the above, etc. But you have to have one.
In that sense, Hoosiers was one of the more realistic sports movies ever made.
When your recruiting consists of getting whoever you can from wherever you can whenever you can, and the head coach doesn't have a strong basketball identity or philosophy, you get Pitt basketball of the past several years--and that includes the last couple of Dixon teams.
Going back to the Hoosiers comparison, to this poinit Capel has proven to be a lot more like the guy on the left than the guy on the right:
Yeah but basketball is different. You only really need to recruit 1/2 starters a year. So not having a local base is not so important. Plus in basketball, these kids are already committing and attending high schools all over the country that "local" recruiting is almost totally meaningless.
You sound exactly like me.
Ohio kids dont dream of playing for WVU. Huggs is just a good evaluator of talent and can find enough guys within a 3 hour drive. He almost never missed on talent. At worst, all his guys become bench contributors. He sometimes misses on character but quickly kicks guys off and then they go average 15 PPG somewhere else
His system and philosophy do not require a ton of talent to produce wins. Hugs gets it.
I have a hard time believing Gonzaga is paying players, for one example.
Almost every major school plays the game to some degree. No show jobs, cash handouts, fringe benefits for players and their families, etc. It is just varies to what extent.
Pitt's base is New York, the Tri, and the northeast
5 Big East Titles all won since 2002 with New York players and Tri area players. 2002, 2003, 2004, 2008, 2011.
The moment Dixon gave up on this area he collapsed. If Capel had been wiser with his choices with players we should have had, Pitt would have made the NCAA Tournament this past year.
That's going to partially change next year if Champ returns and we have two New York kids leading the charge again which is the way it used to be.
Some People don't seem to get it with New York talent or tri talent
Ben Gordon- Mount Vernon, New York- National Title-Uconn
Kemba Walker- Bronx, New York-National Title-Uconn
AJ Price- Amityville, New York-Final 4-Uconn
Carmelo Anthony- Brooklyn, New York- National Title-Syracuse
Brandon Triche- Jamesville, New York- Final 4-Syracuse
Russ Smith- New York, New York, National Title- Louisville
Joakim Noah- New York, New York- Back to Back National Titles- Florida
Doran Lamb- New York, New York, National Title-Kentucky
I can go on and on with this. NY players have a tendency to take over the NCAA Tournament and dominate. And if you don't believe me, look at what these players did in the NCAA Tournament as they took over for their teams. The joke is on people that think NY doesn't produce talent any more when its New Yorkers winning the National Championship. Those players could not be stopped in the NCAA Tournament above. And they cut the nets down.
Some of the biggest names in the entire transfer portal again were New York players. Tyson Walker had a school list a mile long. He's now going to Michigan State for example.
If Pitt is going to have success, we better dial it up on New York again. Champ is from Brooklyn and so is Odukale. We need more.
Someday I hope Pitt can be really selective on who they recruit . How long do you think any coach will last if they have a team that consists of great scholar athletes who are model citizens and vacant win ?Building a successful program involves building a culture and developing an identity. That requires being somewhat selective about the types of kids you're bringing into the program and getting them to buy in to what you're trying to do. To do that well you have to have strong and honest relationships with H.S. coaches. If they don't fit the identity, and don't buy into the culture, the program isn't going anywhere. The identity might be offensive, defensive, toughness, physicality , all of the above, etc. But you have to have one.
In that sense, Hoosiers was one of the more realistic sports movies ever made.
When your recruiting consists of getting whoever you can from wherever you can whenever you can, and the head coach doesn't have a strong basketball identity or philosophy, you get Pitt basketball of the past several years--and that includes the last couple of Dixon teams.
Going back to the Hoosiers comparison, to this poinit Capel has proven to be a lot more like the guy on the left than the guy on the right:
Wasn’t KS team the best academic team Pitt ever had ?
You're reading things into my post that aren't there. I'm not at all suggesting that what Pitt is missing is a bunch of scholar athletes who work soup lines in their free time. The high character kids that can play are great when you can get them. But that’s not what I’m taking about-Pitt needs to carve out a playing identity and recruit to it. Build a team around it. Put the pieces of the puzzle together. The Capel recruiting approach seems disorganized and scattershot. There is no definable program identity or culture. The players he brings in don’t seem to fit together as a team. That’s what I’m saying.
I agree , but he hasn’t really been able to recruit the guys he really wants . Neither could JD or KS . He needs to find a niche .
Well whose fault is that? We have a coach that cannot recruit the players he wants, hence unsurprising problems from their play to personal stuff.
I’m not sure there is a coach that Pitt can hire that can recruit the type of kids needed to be successful in the ACC without a bagman . Changing coaches every three yrs won’t get it done either .
You bring up an interesting point. When Pitt first joined the ACC, people were nervous about how we’d do going from recruiting NYC and the northeast to the ACC regions. They also blamed this for our failures since. However, who’s to say staying in New York wouldn’t have worked? Why did they have to leave the northeast? There was no evidence either way.
For those that follow recruiting more than I do, has Syracuse stuck with northeast recruiting since they joined? They’ve had more success than us since the move and it’d be interesting to see what their roster makeup is.
Capel will pay players, come on, he has in the past, he just not having luck using EBT at Pitt, our buck tooth northeastern elitist admin, that was Nordy , and the new boss as well, same as the old boss, doesn't get big boy sports and never will
I firmly believe Capel was trying to be clean after having an assistant cheat at OU and getting canned. But he sees that its not working and he's close to getting canned so he may have to start sending in the bag men. The problem with Pitt is, can we find a bag man? Do we have a rich enough booster willing to do this? I kind of doubt it.
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