Aliquippa and WPIAL Playoff forfeits

[Sean Miller Fan]

2 comments:

- Aliquippa is running through 4A playing up 3 classes. Unbelievable what they're doing. Maybe they should play 5A next year. Aliquippa-TJ is probably the first HS football game I will watch mostly in its entirety. Actually excited about that. Where are they playing the WPIAL Championships?

- A bunch of schools have been shut down for 5-10 days due to positive COVID cases. This means that no sports can be played during this time. If this happens during the playoffs, does that team have to forfeit?

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

I thought Aliquippa was in 3A for some reason. Did they just move to 4 this year, or is that where they've been playing? I saw them on TV against Montour the other night... their offensive line might beat Pitt's in a tug-of-war battle.

Also saw that McKeesport is in with TJ and company now. Wow, when did that happen? I'm pretty sure McKeesport sucks this year anyway, but there were years when they were a top 5A team, much less 4A.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Where are they playing the WPIAL Championships?

If this happens during the playoffs, does that team have to forfeit?

They haven't decided on championship game sites, other than to say that they are not playing any of them at Heinz.

And yes.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Did they just move to 4 this year, or is that where they've been playing?

They moved to 4A this year because they were playing in 3A and they won a lot and have a lot of transfer players on their roster, so by the new PIAA rules they were required to move up a class.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

They moved to 4A this year because they were playing in 3A and they won a lot and have a lot of transfer players on their roster, so by the new PIAA rules they were required to move up a class.

I guess it doesn't matter if you're really a 1A school who was playing there voluntarily to begin with? Haha.

Have they always had a high number of transfers? I've heard that was the case, even though some might have moved there even before high school. But I'm not sure if it's quite the "something in the water" concept many think it is. Though I realize there are a lot of athletic bloodlines there (or at least a few that produce a lot of players).

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I guess it doesn't matter if you're really a 1A school who was playing there voluntarily to begin with? Haha.

No, it doesn't. Why should it?

If they are going to have a rule like that and you are playing 3A and winning district and state championship and are bringing in a lot of transfer students then why shouldn't the rule apply to you?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I thought Aliquippa was in 3A for some reason. Did they just move to 4 this year, or is that where they've been playing? I saw them on TV against Montour the other night... their offensive line might beat Pitt's in a tug-of-war battle.

Also saw that McKeesport is in with TJ and company now. Wow, when did that happen? I'm pretty sure McKeesport sucks this year anyway, but there were years when they were a top 5A team, much less 4A.

McKeesport was in the 5A Championship game a couple years ago. Now I saw 1 projection which had them playing 2 seed Aliquippa in the 1st Round. I don't think McKeesport is very good this year even for 4A.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

No, it doesn't. Why should it?

If they are going to have a rule like that and you are playing 3A and winning district and state championship and are bringing in a lot of transfer students then why shouldn't the rule apply to you?

Because it can lead to someone getting seriously hurt under the right circumstances. If they ever find themselves in a scenario where they're playing in 4 or 5A with a formidable senior class, that means they could theoretically graduate half their starters and have to remain in that class the following season with much lower numbers and talent than their peers.

I get that they're mowing through everyone right now. But that's certainly a possibility when you're talking about moving up this many classes. I'd rather just see them crack down on transfers.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

McKeesport was in the 5A Championship game a couple years ago. Now I saw 1 projection which had them playing 2 seed Aliquippa in the 1st Round. I don't think McKeesport is very good this year even for 4A.

Yeah, they do suck this year. It's just weird seeing them in 4A, considering they used to be one of the better teams even when they were playing in the top class (4A, but back when there wasn't a 5 or 6).

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I don't think McKeesport is very good this year even for 4A.

They are 5-1. But they are going to finish in 3rd place in their section because they are in the same section as Belle Vernon (who already beat them) and TJ (who they are supposed to play this week). I don't know how good they actually are, but I don't think that finishing in 3rd behind the two schools that are ranked numbers 1 and 2 in this week's rankings in the PG is necessarily an indictment of how good they are.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Yeah, they do suck this year. It's just weird seeing them in 4A, considering they used to be one of the better teams even when they were playing in the top class (4A, but back when there wasn't a 5 or 6).

By the same token South Fayette used to be 2A in the old 4 class system and now they are 5A.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

By the same token South Fayette used to be 2A in the old 4 class system and now they are 5A.

south fayette is growing rapidly, just talk to someone from there, they'll tell you. then they'll tell you again and just when you think it's over, they will tell you once again how south fayette is growing. then when you try and walk away, they'll grab you by the shirt and pull you back and tell you how south fayette is growing..

not up to date on aliquippa though, do they really get alot of transfers "into" the program?

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

when i was in high school, '93, we were Quad A (Highest classification) and in our division were Uniontown, Albert Gallatin and Ringgold. imagine that, ringold and albert gallatin were in the highest classification.. i dont even know if albert gallatin still plays football. i think ringold is 3A, not sure about uniontown..

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

south fayette is growing rapidly, just talk to someone from there, they'll tell you. then they'll tell you again and just when you think it's over, they will tell you once again how south fayette is growing. then when you try and walk away, they'll grab you by the shirt and pull you back and tell you how south fayette is growing..

not up to date on aliquippa though, do they really get alot of transfers "into" the program?

Wait, so are you trying to tell me that South Fayette is growing?



I don't know exactly how many transfers Aliquippa gets in, but it is more than the PIAA allows for schools that win all the time to not be required to move up a class. I think for football that is five transfers on to the team.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

south fayette is growing rapidly, just talk to someone from there, they'll tell you. then they'll tell you again and just when you think it's over, they will tell you once again how south fayette is growing. then when you try and walk away, they'll grab you by the shirt and pull you back and tell you how south fayette is growing..

not up to date on aliquippa though, do they really get alot of transfers "into" the program?

Pine Richland of the South.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

i dont even know if albert gallatin still plays football

They dropped out of the WPIAL because they were getting hammered almost every week but they are playing as an independant. I think they played games against some of the City schools.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

when i was in high school, '93, we were Quad A (Highest classification) and in our division were Uniontown, Albert Gallatin and Ringgold. imagine that, ringold and albert gallatin were in the highest classification.. i dont even know if albert gallatin still plays football. i think ringold is 3A, not sure about uniontown..

I'm pretty sure Albert Gallatin at least withdrew from the WPIAL, on account of getting their heads beat in too often. Maybe they shut it down altogether... not sure.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Mars is growing rapidly as well. They were AA not all that long ago. They might end up 6A in a few years.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I'm pretty sure Albert Gallatin at least withdrew from the WPIAL, on account of getting their heads beat in too often. Maybe they shut it down altogether... not sure.

I think I saw they have a winning record vs MD, WV and Fayette Co. schools. Great idea by them to drop out and play schools which are closer in geography and talent level.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Wait, so are you trying to tell me that South Fayette is growing?

not me but if you find yourself in company with a resident, they will assuredly tell you all about it..

 

[quip]

I thought Aliquippa was in 3A for some reason. Did they just move to 4 this year, or is that where they've been playing? I saw them on TV against Montour the other night... their offensive line might beat Pitt's in a tug-of-war battle.

Also saw that McKeesport is in with TJ and company now. Wow, when did that happen? I'm pretty sure McKeesport sucks this year anyway, but there were years when they were a top 5A team, much less 4A.

Aliquippa is a !A school playing in 4A. Last year they played 3A. This is supposed to be a down year for them because most are juniors and sophomores. Th Jr High Team is undefeated and unscored upon this year. They beat 6A North Allegheny 41-0. They will be hard to beat for anyone in two to three years.

 

[quip]

Wait, so are you trying to tell me that South Fayette is growing?



I don't know exactly how many transfers Aliquippa gets in, but it is more than the PIAA allows for schools that win all the time to not be required to move up a class. I think for football that is five transfers on to the team.

South Fayette got beat by Chartiers Valley which got trounced by Aliquippa.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

Aliquippa is a !A school playing in 4A. Last year they played 3A. This is supposed to be a down year for them because most are juniors and sophomores. Th Jr High Team is undefeated and unscored upon this year. They beat 6A North Allegheny 41-0. They will be hard to beat for anyone in two to three years.

That's insane. Regarding Aliquippa having to play up, it was quite a story. Basically the WPIAL has some rule where if win the championship for two years (I think that's the specifics but i could be wrong) then you have to play up a level. The problem was, Aliquippa was "Voluntarily" playing up two levels already so the argument was, they should be void of this rule..

I kind of agreed with aliquippa on this btw. but it's funny cause it doesnt matter, they are still dominating. they are dominating in a level that is 3 classifications higher than what they should be in..

 

[pittdan77]

That's insane. Regarding Aliquippa having to play up, it was quite a story. Basically the WPIAL has some rule where if win the championship for two years (I think that's the specifics but i could be wrong) then you have to play up a level. The problem was, Aliquippa was "Voluntarily" playing up two levels already so the argument was, they should be void of this rule..

I kind of agreed with aliquippa on this btw. but it's funny cause it doesnt matter, they are still dominating. they are dominating in a level that is 3 classifications higher than what they should be in..

It's a PIAA rule and Aliquippa wasn't the only school to have this happen. With all of the transfers, they aren't "poor little Aliquippa playing up and getting hosed." Supposedly they have something like two dozen kids who are transfers. That's an awful lot and it's certainly not because of academics or some sort of STEM program.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

It's a PIAA rule and Aliquippa wasn't the only school to have this happen. With all of the transfers, they aren't "poor little Aliquippa playing up and getting hosed." Supposedly they have something like two dozen kids who are transfers. That's an awful lot and it's certainly not because of academics or some sort of STEM program.

im surprised to hear this transfer stuff. i mean, lets face it, it's not a good school district so a dozen transfers is crazy. wpial are nazis with athletic transfers, how is aliquippa getting 12 kids eligible when wpial disputes everything?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It's a PIAA rule and Aliquippa wasn't the only school to have this happen. With all of the transfers, they aren't "poor little Aliquippa playing up and getting hosed." Supposedly they have something like two dozen kids who are transfers. That's an awful lot and it's certainly not because of academics or some sort of STEM program.

While there are probably a few recruited players, Aliquippa is a transient area. Families moving in and out, kids going to live with dad or grandma instead of mom who may live across the river. I think every transfer has to be looked at individually.

 

[pittdan77]

While there are probably a few recruited players, Aliquippa is a transient area. Families moving in and out, kids going to live with dad or grandma instead of mom who may live across the river. I think every transfer has to be looked at individually.

So it's purely coincidental that these "transient" kids who come in just happen to be pretty good at football?

 

[pittdan77]

im surprised to hear this transfer stuff. i mean, lets face it, it's not a good school district so a dozen transfers is crazy. wpial are nazis with athletic transfers, how is aliquippa getting 12 kids eligible when wpial disputes everything?

I don't understand it either. When I first read about this, that was my first question. The mere existence of the rule sort of admits that they don't apply the standard equally.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

So it's purely coincidental that these "transient" kids who come in just happen to be pretty good at football?

I think what it comes down to is that if you live in a neighboring town and are good at football, you are more inclined to rent an apartment in Aliquippa to play football there and unless it can be proven that the family isn't living there, I dont know how you can justify penalizing that.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

I don't understand it either. When I first read about this, that was my first question. The mere existence of the rule sort of admits that they don't apply the standard equally.

When is the last time they actually made someone sit out upon appeal? I don't believe Kenny White ultimately had to. Pretty sure Paris Ford never had to. Johnson may have after going from Steel Valley to West Mifflin... I forget.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

I think what it comes down to is that if you live in a neighboring town and are good at football, you are more inclined to rent an apartment in Aliquippa to play football there and unless it can be proven that the family isn't living there, I dont know how you can justify penalizing that.

If a family prioritizes their kid playing on a certain football team enough to actually pick up and move, I say it should be allowed. But none of this "Oh, I live with my fake uncle now" stuff. I realize it's probably a sensitive subject to uphold sometimes. Especially if there is a certain education program one school offers, like someone mentioned in Aliquippa... I'm sure that clouds the water a bit (even if it's a common sense observation to most people).

 

[pittdan77]

I think what it comes down to is that if you live in a neighboring town and are good at football, you are more inclined to rent an apartment in Aliquippa to play football there and unless it can be proven that the family isn't living there, I dont know how you can justify penalizing that.

Call me crazy but I think you can justify penalizing the school because there is a rule. The point of having that kind of a rule is to take away ambiguity because it appears that Quips -- and several other schools -- have been enjoying a technicality or a loophole for a long time.

 

[pittdan77]

When is the last time they actually made someone sit out upon appeal? I don't believe Kenny White ultimately had to. Pretty sure Paris Ford never had to. Johnson may have after going from Steel Valley to West Mifflin... I forget.

I think this rule is a tacit admission they couldn't really stop athletic transfers any more and that some schools were taking advantage of it.

 

[pittchagg]

They haven't decided on championship game sites, other than to say that they are not playing any of them at Heinz.

And yes.

Wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being played at the higher seed’s home field (if it can support it). That’s what a lot of the districts out east are doing.

It’s just a wild year - District 3 in the Harrisburg area only has four playoff qualifiers in 5A for 29 teams, and the playoff teams are picked in two weeks, with most teams not having finished their regular seasons. There could very well be some undefeated teams who don’t even make the playoffs.

 

[pittdan77]

Wouldn’t be surprised if it ends up being played at the higher seed’s home field (if it can support it). That’s what a lot of the districts out east are doing.

It’s just a wild year - District 3 in the Harrisburg area only has four playoff qualifiers in 5A for 29 teams, and the playoff teams are picked in two weeks, with most teams not having finished their regular seasons. There could very well be some undefeated teams who don’t even make the playoffs.

A lot of schools opting out, too.

 

[Zeldas Open Roof]

pitt had a tight end not too long ago that lived south of waynesburg and i believe his dad rented an apt for a year in south hills so his son could play for school up here.. i dont know if there were other factors, very well could have been. wasnt exactly a powerhouse school though, seton la salle so maybe there were some extenuating circumstances.

again, i dont know full details and im assuming it was for football but dont know that for sure.. so if im wrong, feel free to call me out.

 

[Burgh15]

Mike White had an article in the PG about Aliquippa's size. The OL averages 315 pounds. They'll give any big school a run for their money with that type of talent and size.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

Mike White had an article in the PG about Aliquippa's size. The OL averages 315 pounds. They'll give any big school a run for their money with that type of talent and size.

Their left tackle had to be 350 or more.

 

[superstein61a]

Because it can lead to someone getting seriously hurt under the right circumstances. If they ever find themselves in a scenario where they're playing in 4 or 5A with a formidable senior class, that means they could theoretically graduate half their starters and have to remain in that class the following season with much lower numbers and talent than their peers.

I get that they're mowing through everyone right now. But that's certainly a possibility when you're talking about moving up this many classes. I'd rather just see them crack down on transfers.

How can someone get hurt. They were beating their competition badly and bringing an a large number of transfers.
These public schools are the ones who pushed for this rule because they felt private schools had an advantage
As I pointed out at the time, the worst offenders were some of the public schools in the WPIAL

 

[superstein61a]

Wait, so are you trying to tell me that South Fayette is growing?



I don't know exactly how many transfers Aliquippa gets in, but it is more than the PIAA allows for schools that win all the time to not be required to move up a class. I think for football that is five transfers on to the team.

There were over 20 transfers during the 3 year measurement period at Aliquippa