City School Attendance

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I am not sure where Doke got these attendance numbers but I got them from his blog. I seriously, seriously doubt Miami's numbers. But what the hell......let's use these. Here are city schools, the metro area they are in's population and the capacity of the stadium they play, with the percentage full.

Washington- 61,206- 3.5 million Husky Stadium 72,500 84%
Minnesota- 53,737- 3.5 million TCF Bank Stadium 50,800 100% (doesn't compute)
California- 51,160- 4.5 million California Memorial Stadium 62,467 82%
Rutgers 50,620-20.1 million High Point Solutions 52,454 97% (first year Big 10)
Arizona State- 50,486- 4 million Sun Devil Stadium 65,870 77%
Georgia Tech- 50,285- 5 million Bobby Dodd Stadium 55,000 91%
Stanford- 49,474- 4.5 million Stanford Stadium 50,000 98% (note renovated used to be 86,000)
Miami- 48,261- 5.5 million Sun Life Stadium 75,500 64% This is pure BS and inflation worse than anything Pitt has done.

TCU- 47,139- 6.5 million Armon G Carter Stadium 46,000 100%
Pittsburgh- 46,085- 2.3 million Heinz Field 66,000 70%
Maryland- 40,782- 8.5 million (in between Washington, DC and Baltimore) Byrd Stadium 51,500 79%
Colorado- 39,571- 2.5 million Folsom Field 53,500 74%
Cincinnati- 34,025- 2 million Nippert Stadium 40,101 85%
Northwestern- 33,888- 9.5 million Ryan Field 49,256 69%
Temple- 33,276- 6 million The Linc 69,172 48%
Vanderbilt- 32,505- 1.7 million Vanderbilt Stadium 39,790 81%
Boston College- 31,382- 4.5 million Alumni Stadium 44,500 70%
Houston- 30,313- 6 million TCDEU (brand new) 40,000 75%
South Florida- 26,138- 2.8 million Raymond James Stadium 64,450 40%
San Diego State- 24,696- 3 million Qualcomm Stadium 70,560 35%

If you notice, most of the college specific stadiums are somewhere around 50,000. Even Baylor and their lauded new stadium is actually a few thousand less than their older stadium. It is not just capacity, many people here complain about atmosphere at Heinz and it is a deterrent from people going. Well it is not that different from a restaurant, when it is always crowded, when the reservations are hard to get, chances are it continues to be full. Versus that half filled restaurant that dies a slow death.

Heinz Field is our only option right now. But it has become a bad decision. Why didn't the Rooneys build a 75-80K stadium as their then wait list suggested they could fill? Because they were smart, taking it down to 65K or so, right sizes it, insulates you a bit against some down years and always creates demand. Pitt's problem is a supply issue, too much supply, no matter what the price, eliminates the urgency to buy tickets, especially season tickets, and then the lack of demand kills any real buzz, word of mouth and walk up sales.

Then....add on top of this those gaudy, ugly, fluorescent yellow seats that again act like a highlighter to every single open seat, and a middle of the road metropolitan area, coupled that within a 200 mi radius you have tOSU, PSU and WVU, plus the presence of Notre Dame in a heavy Catholic area.....no other city school faces this kind of local sports competition except maybe Ga Tech or TCU.

Heinz needs tarped. We can finish this season 11-2, next year 12-1, and guess what, we aren't going to get 65,000 at every game. There just aren't that many college football fans in this area, let alone Pitt fans.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

By the way, USC averages 72,000 in the 93,600 seat LA Coliseum and UCLA averaged 76,650 in the 92,542 seat Rose Bowl. Obviously these two are special cases but again they have around 80% capacity.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You're right that Pitt has a supply problem. Way way too many available tickets. The great supply lowers the value and ultimately the cost of tickets. I've said many times Pitt should tarp it down to 50,000. Open it up to full capacity for ND and PSU.

The myth that if we win they will come us just a myth. We are a 45K max program. If we get more fans than that, its because the visiting fans bought the rest. Take this ND game for example. Pitt's 45K fans will bw there but the actual attendance is only going to be 58,000 or so in a 68,000 seat stadium. Why? Pitt prices out the casul Yinzer ND fan and the East Coast ND fans went to the Linc instead. ND will have their smallest contingent ever and because of that......no sellout, not even close.

We have a small fanbase, we shouldnt be making 68,000 seats availablem. That defies economics. Hopefully Barnes sees this.

 

[Slick Manager of Champs]

Heinz needs tarped. We can finish this season 11-2, next year 12-1, and guess what, we aren't going to get 65,000 at every game. There just aren't that many college football fans in this area, let alone Pitt fans.

how do you explain 2003, where I think the average was over 60K? It can be done. Maybe not 65k, but 60K has been achieved.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You're right that Pitt has a supply problem. Way way too many available tickets. The great supply lowers the value and ultimately the cost of tickets. I've said many times Pitt should tarp it down to 50,000. Open it up to full capacity for ND and PSU.

The myth that if we win they will come us just a myth. We are a 45K max program. If we get more fans than that, its because the visiting fans bought the rest. Take this ND game for example. Pitt's 45K fans will bw there but the actual attendance is only going to be 58,000 or so in a 68,000 seat stadium. Why? Pitt prices out the casul Yinzer ND fan and the East Coast ND fans went to the Linc instead. ND will have their smallest contingent ever and because of that......no sellout, not even close.

We have a small fanbase, we shouldnt be making 68,000 seats availablem. That defies economics. Hopefully Barnes sees this.

And if you look above, even the larger state schools in cities aside from USC and UCLA, obviously realize this and built stadiums around a 50K mark.

I know in 2003 we averaged 60K, it was great, but let's look at that year. We also had THREE Prime Time, National TV starts (ND, VT and Miami), Gameday here, Kent at night, and was preseason top 15 and in some polls preseason top 10 with a Heisman candidate.

Man, that is a hard thing to duplicate. It was organic. That kind of schedule........as long as we are continuously saddled with noon starts and the only night game is week night, well there will be a cap.

 

[CaptainSidneyReilly]

I am not sure where Doke got these attendance numbers but I got them from his blog. I seriously, seriously doubt Miami's numbers. But what the hell......let's use these. Here are city schools, the metro area they are in's population and the capacity of the stadium they play, with the percentage full.

Washington- 61,206- 3.5 million Husky Stadium 72,500 84%
Minnesota- 53,737- 3.5 million TCF Bank Stadium 50,800 100% (doesn't compute)
California- 51,160- 4.5 million California Memorial Stadium 62,467 82%
Rutgers 50,620-20.1 million High Point Solutions 52,454 97% (first year Big 10)
Arizona State- 50,486- 4 million Sun Devil Stadium 65,870 77%
Georgia Tech- 50,285- 5 million Bobby Dodd Stadium 55,000 91%
Stanford- 49,474- 4.5 million Stanford Stadium 50,000 98% (note renovated used to be 86,000)
Miami- 48,261- 5.5 million Sun Life Stadium 75,500 64% This is pure BS and inflation worse than anything Pitt has done.

View embedded media

TCU- 47,139- 6.5 million Armon G Carter Stadium 46,000 100%
Pittsburgh- 46,085- 2.3 million Heinz Field 66,000 70%
Maryland- 40,782- 8.5 million (in between Washington, DC and Baltimore) Byrd Stadium 51,500 79%
Colorado- 39,571- 2.5 million Folsom Field 53,500 74%
Cincinnati- 34,025- 2 million Nippert Stadium 40,101 85%
Northwestern- 33,888- 9.5 million Ryan Field 49,256 69%
Temple- 33,276- 6 million The Linc 69,172 48%
Vanderbilt- 32,505- 1.7 million Vanderbilt Stadium 39,790 81%
Boston College- 31,382- 4.5 million Alumni Stadium 44,500 70%
Houston- 30,313- 6 million TCDEU (brand new) 40,000 75%
South Florida- 26,138- 2.8 million Raymond James Stadium 64,450 40%
San Diego State- 24,696- 3 million Qualcomm Stadium 70,560 35%

If you notice, most of the college specific stadiums are somewhere around 50,000. Even Baylor and their lauded new stadium is actually a few thousand less than their older stadium. It is not just capacity, many people here complain about atmosphere at Heinz and it is a deterrent from people going. Well it is not that different from a restaurant, when it is always crowded, when the reservations are hard to get, chances are it continues to be full. Versus that half filled restaurant that dies a slow death.

Heinz Field is our only option right now. But it has become a bad decision. Why didn't the Rooneys build a 75-80K stadium as their then wait list suggested they could fill? Because they were smart, taking it down to 65K or so, right sizes it, insulates you a bit against some down years and always creates demand. Pitt's problem is a supply issue, too much supply, no matter what the price, eliminates the urgency to buy tickets, especially season tickets, and then the lack of demand kills any real buzz, word of mouth and walk up sales.

Then....add on top of this those gaudy, ugly, fluorescent yellow seats that again act like a highlighter to every single open seat, and a middle of the road metropolitan area, coupled that within a 200 mi radius you have tOSU, PSU and WVU, plus the presence of Notre Dame in a heavy Catholic area.....no other city school faces this kind of local sports competition except maybe Ga Tech or TCU.

Heinz needs tarped. We can finish this season 11-2, next year 12-1, and guess what, we aren't going to get 65,000 at every game. There just aren't that many college football fans in this area, let alone Pitt fans.

Agree, and I don't Consider some Schools as Urban Schools in Big Cities competing for Pro Dollars? He left off a few too. ASU is not an Urban School. when thinking about Urban Schools they must be right within a Top Urban City with Pro Dollars Teams.

Also, it is the Undergraduate Enrollments not the total Enrollments that count more because many Graduate Students went elsewhere and seldom follow the Graduate Schools they attend less than the Undergraduate they went to and followed..

It is Arizona that is right in Downtown Tucson not ASU at Tempe! But even they do not compete with Pro Dollars!

Minnesota- 53,737- 3.5 million TCF Bank Stadium 50,800 100% (doesn't compute)

California- 51,160- 4.5 million California Memorial Stadium 62,467 82%

Georgia Tech- 50,285- 5 million Bobby Dodd Stadium 55,000 91%

Miami- 48,261- 5.5 million Sun Life Stadium 75,500 64%

TCU- 47,139- 6.5 million Armon G Carter Stadium 46,000 100%

Pittsburgh- 46,085- 2.3 million Heinz Field 66,000 70%

Cincinnati- 34,025- 2 million Nippert Stadium 40,101 85%

Northwestern- 33,888- 9.5 million Ryan Field 49,256 69%

Temple- 33,276- 6 million The Linc 69,172 48%

Vanderbilt- 32,505- 1.7 million Vanderbilt Stadium 39,790 81%

Boston College- 31,382- 4.5 million Alumni Stadium 44,500 70%

Houston- 30,313- 6 million TCDEU (brand new) 40,000 75%

South Florida- 26,138- 2.8 million Raymond James Stadium 64,450 40%

San Diego State- 24,696- 3 million Qualcomm Stadium 70,560 35%

Schools not included but are Universities right Downtown or City Limits and compete with Pro Sports Dollars!!

UCLA? LA
USC? LA
Arizona? No Pro Teams!
SMU? Dallas!
Memphis? NBA
Rice? Houston

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

how do you explain 2003, where I think the average was over 60K? It can be done. Maybe not 65k, but 60K has been achieved.

Preseason Top 15, newish stadium that people didn't hate yet, Larry Fitz, ND, national powers at the time VT and Miami, also super cheap tickets ($60 upper deck endzone for season).

Perfect storm will never happen again.

 

[pittdan77]

Somebody should be linking that website for that stadium plan up on the hill about now...

 

[PSU_Nut]

Preseason Top 15, newish stadium that people didn't hate yet, Larry Fitz, ND, national powers at the time VT and Miami, also super cheap tickets ($60 upper deck endzone for season).

Perfect storm will never happen again.

Also a very likable superstar returning in Fitzgerald. Pitt was the #10 team in th Preseason AP Poll.

I know a few ND fans who bought season tickets that year because season tickets were cheaper then single game tickets at Notre Dame. They ended up making their money back just selling the VT and Miami tickets.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Somebody should be linking that website for that stadium plan up on the hill about now...

True dat. But here's the thing, many of the schools that joined with Pro stadiums have decided to go into a different direction and build their own, or renovate into a right sized stadium.

Pitt did what it had to do back in the day, but as they were doing this the continued emphasis on football (aka "driving the bus") grew year by year as we focused on basketball. Now doesn't matter if you are a fan or not, but basketball grew and thrived where football has not.

Now we are at this point. As my post on the city located schools, outside of the big LA schools, most have realized what they need, and that is not a large NFL stadium to share. Two of the other schools that are in the same boat are Miami and USF.

Heinz isn't working. It will never work. People point to the 2003 season, we had a top 15 team, Heinz was also still fairly new and a novelty, we played ND, VT and Miami (the latter two top 5 programs at the time) on Saturday night prime time, including ESPN game day being here for one of them, and even the Kent game was a Sat nite game. It was a perfect storm that maybe duplicated every 25 years or so.

You get a 50,000 seat stadium on campus, you create buzz, you create demand moreso than an excess supply, you create an urgency for people to buy tickets, you can price them whereas not only does the program make money, but you make them harder for people to just blow off and toss away and not use.

It is really time if this program wants to step up to do this. If not? Well....that's fine too. But we really should never expect much. Too much competition here, with both the local pro teams and the big state oriented college football teams nearby.

 

[TempleBAPittMPA]

You must have never (or not within the last 15-20 years) been to Tempe. Arizona State wouldn't be an urban school from a Northeastern perspective, but from that perspective, neither would UCLA!

 

[Pittx9]

Miami- 48,261- 5.5 million Sun Life Stadium 75,500 64% This is pure BS and inflation worse than anything Pitt has done.

Hahahahaha. That is the funniest, biggest lie I've ever heard. I'm guessing the AD called ol' Smiley up for advice on how to inflate attendance numbers. Probably told him to just keep swinging the opening gate hoping that it would reigster more fans walking through into the game.

 

[JoseLind13]

The dilemma is that selling 60k tickets a game hasn't necessarily been a chronic problem, and more than 45k are selling as season tickets.

By tarping and reducing supply, you may need to pull tickets from existing season ticket holders (probably many young owners in the cheapest seats) and inflate costs for those that already show up and are not part of the problem just to break-even financially.

This may look good on TV, but could result in zero increase to total revenue and create a PR headache with existing ticket holders that Pitt probably wants to avoid.

 

[Pittx9]

The dilemma is that selling 60k tickets a game hasn't necessarily been a chronic problem, and more than 45k are selling as season tickets.

By tarping and reducing supply, you may need to pull tickets from existing season ticket holders (probably many young owners in the cheapest seats) and inflate costs for those that already show up and are not part of the problem just to break-even financially.

This may look good on TV, but could result in zero increase to total revenue and create a PR headache with existing ticket holders that Pitt probably wants to avoid.

I don't know if this is goes with what you're saying, but it's something brought up on here a lot. Posters have been mentioning tarping off the top sections (which isn't necessarily a bad idea) and moving people down to the lower levels. This is going to hurt ticket sales horribly.

Think about it. So you can buy tickets in the upper levels and when you get to the game get moved to the lower levels? So why pay more for a lower level ticket when you can buy really cheap tickets and get moved closer to the field? Also, maybe some people can only afford the cheaper tickets and have no problem sitting there as long as they're at the game. So charging them more for those tickets with the chance that they might be moved to a lower level depending on attendance will not be good enough for those fans. The tickets will not be bought.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The dilemma is that selling 60k tickets a game hasn't necessarily been a chronic problem, and more than 45k are selling as season tickets.

By tarping and reducing supply, you may need to pull tickets from existing season ticket holders (probably many young owners in the cheapest seats)

Huh? If they tarp it down to 50K, I promise you anybody who wants to buy tickets will be able to. Pitt probably sold 30K season tickets this year along with 10K student seats. In my plan, I'd limit the students to 5K seats and charge them $100 with a per game refund every time they swipe their ID upon exiting Heinz Field AFTER the game.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I am not sure where Doke got these attendance numbers but I got them from his blog. I seriously, seriously doubt Miami's numbers. But what the hell......let's use these. Here are city schools, the metro area they are in's population and the capacity of the stadium they play, with the percentage full.

Washington- 61,206- 3.5 million Husky Stadium 72,500 84%
Minnesota- 53,737- 3.5 million TCF Bank Stadium 50,800 100% (doesn't compute)
California- 51,160- 4.5 million California Memorial Stadium 62,467 82%
Rutgers 50,620-20.1 million High Point Solutions 52,454 97% (first year Big 10)
Arizona State- 50,486- 4 million Sun Devil Stadium 65,870 77%
Georgia Tech- 50,285- 5 million Bobby Dodd Stadium 55,000 91%
Stanford- 49,474- 4.5 million Stanford Stadium 50,000 98% (note renovated used to be 86,000)
Miami- 48,261- 5.5 million Sun Life Stadium 75,500 64% This is pure BS and inflation worse than anything Pitt has done.

View embedded media

TCU- 47,139- 6.5 million Armon G Carter Stadium 46,000 100%
Pittsburgh- 46,085- 2.3 million Heinz Field 66,000 70%
Maryland- 40,782- 8.5 million (in between Washington, DC and Baltimore) Byrd Stadium 51,500 79%
Colorado- 39,571- 2.5 million Folsom Field 53,500 74%
Cincinnati- 34,025- 2 million Nippert Stadium 40,101 85%
Northwestern- 33,888- 9.5 million Ryan Field 49,256 69%
Temple- 33,276- 6 million The Linc 69,172 48%
Vanderbilt- 32,505- 1.7 million Vanderbilt Stadium 39,790 81%
Boston College- 31,382- 4.5 million Alumni Stadium 44,500 70%
Houston- 30,313- 6 million TCDEU (brand new) 40,000 75%
South Florida- 26,138- 2.8 million Raymond James Stadium 64,450 40%
San Diego State- 24,696- 3 million Qualcomm Stadium 70,560 35%

If you notice, most of the college specific stadiums are somewhere around 50,000. Even Baylor and their lauded new stadium is actually a few thousand less than their older stadium. It is not just capacity, many people here complain about atmosphere at Heinz and it is a deterrent from people going. Well it is not that different from a restaurant, when it is always crowded, when the reservations are hard to get, chances are it continues to be full. Versus that half filled restaurant that dies a slow death.

Heinz Field is our only option right now. But it has become a bad decision. Why didn't the Rooneys build a 75-80K stadium as their then wait list suggested they could fill? Because they were smart, taking it down to 65K or so, right sizes it, insulates you a bit against some down years and always creates demand. Pitt's problem is a supply issue, too much supply, no matter what the price, eliminates the urgency to buy tickets, especially season tickets, and then the lack of demand kills any real buzz, word of mouth and walk up sales.

Then....add on top of this those gaudy, ugly, fluorescent yellow seats that again act like a highlighter to every single open seat, and a middle of the road metropolitan area, coupled that within a 200 mi radius you have tOSU, PSU and WVU, plus the presence of Notre Dame in a heavy Catholic area.....no other city school faces this kind of local sports competition except maybe Ga Tech or TCU.

Heinz needs tarped. We can finish this season 11-2, next year 12-1, and guess what, we aren't going to get 65,000 at every game. There just aren't that many college football fans in this area, let alone Pitt fans.

Couldn't. Agree. More.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

They could easily tarp off the north end zone as well as the corners on the east and west sides of the stadium. Sure, some might bitch at first but if it is handled well from a PR standpoint, those people will get over it.\

This is a no-brainer, IMHO. Pitt MUST right size its stadium so that the demand meets the supply - or at least comes somewhat close to meeting the supply.

 

[OriginalEther]

You're right that Pitt has a supply problem. Way way too many available tickets. The great supply lowers the value and ultimately the cost of tickets. I've said many times Pitt should tarp it down to 50,000. Open it up to full capacity for ND and PSU.

The myth that if we win they will come us just a myth. We are a 45K max program. If we get more fans than that, its because the visiting fans bought the rest. Take this ND game for example. Pitt's 45K fans will bw there but the actual attendance is only going to be 58,000 or so in a 68,000 seat stadium. Why? Pitt prices out the casul Yinzer ND fan and the East Coast ND fans went to the Linc instead. ND will have their smallest contingent ever and because of that......no sellout, not even close.

If Pitt were to tarp, one condition is to NEVER expand it for single games, regardless of the opponent.
That's bush.

I don't know if this is goes with what you're saying, but it's something brought up on here a lot. Posters have been mentioning tarping off the top sections (which isn't necessarily a bad idea) and moving people down to the lower levels. This is going to hurt ticket sales horribly.

Think about it. So you can buy tickets in the upper levels and when you get to the game get moved to the lower levels? So why pay more for a lower level ticket when you can buy really cheap tickets and get moved closer to the field? Also, maybe some people can only afford the cheaper tickets and have no problem sitting there as long as they're at the game. So charging them more for those tickets with the chance that they might be moved to a lower level depending on attendance will not be good enough for those fans. The tickets will not be bought.

That's the cheap fanbase argument that you guys get mad at Souf for bringing up so often.
He did the math sometime ago, where Pitt would be better off charging the diehards more and driving away the cheapskates, than the current setup where Pitt sells tickets cheap to try to get said cheap fans to attend.

 

[OriginalEther]

For the max program argument, here's listed attendance (per Wikipedia) for the 2003, 2008, 2009 (high point seasons), as well as 2007 and 2012 (low point seasons)

2003:
Kent State: 56,531
Ball State: 44,117
Notre Dame: 66,421
Syracuse: 61,421
Virginia Tech: 66,207
Miami: 60,486

2008:
Bowling Green: 45,063
Buffalo: 42,494
Iowa: 50,321
Rutgers 51,161
Louisville: 44,055
WVU: 63,019

2009:
Youngstown State: 48,497
Navy: 55,064
UConn: 44,839
USF: 50,019
Syracuse: 46,865
Notre Dame: 65,374
Cincy: 63,387

2007:
Eastern Michigan: 36,183
Grambling: 30,852
UConn: 40,145
Navy: 30,103
Cincy: 33,423
Syracuse: 31,374
USF: 31,123

2012:
Youngstown State: 40,837
Virginia Tech: 48,032
Gardner-Webb: 36,452
Louisville: 42,432
Temple: 42,425
Rutgers: 38,786

50k-55k sounds about right.

 

[pittdan77]

I really don't think Pitt's attendance is anything more than a Nitter argument that stings because it's coming from a Nitter. Yes, it can be better but not by a whole lot more. Yes, Heinz sucks but that's the hand you have to play. No, don't fool around with tarps, just do a better job on how you sell the stadium.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I really don't think Pitt's attendance is anything more than a Nitter argument that stings because it's coming from a Nitter. Yes, it can be better but not by a whole lot more. Yes, Heinz sucks but that's the hand you have to play. No, don't fool around with tarps, just do a better job on how you sell the stadium.

It is a real issue because well it is an issue. Recruits mention it, media mention and hell fans mention it.

And you people need to get over the tarp situation. Pride cometh before the fall, right? To just discount tarping off sections because of some misguided piece of ego is more a Nitter thing, because you don't want to admit that we aren't a large, rural state school.

 

[pittdan77]

It is a real issue because well it is an issue. Recruits mention it, media mention and hell fans mention it.

And you people need to get over the tarp situation. Pride cometh before the fall, right? To just discount tarping off sections because of some misguided piece of ego is more a Nitter thing, because you don't want to admit that we aren't a large, rural state school.

Pitt's identity crisis is self abuse. I don't want Pitt to be a large, rural school wannabe. I want Pitt to be the proud, city school we can love and that players love because they're in the middle of a lively, exciting community. You overcome attendance with wins and getting kids to the next level. It's pretty simple. Attendance will vary a little but it will never pack that stadium.

I would also note that tarps are a pain and probably cause more problems for the grounds crew than they're worth. Pretending that a tarp makes it "look better" or serves some useful capacity problem is just sort of whitewashing things. Rather see the money spent on facilities, coaching salaries, equipment, and so on...

 

[Pittx9]

I want Pitt to be the proud, city school we can love and that players love because they're in the middle of a lively, exciting community.

Well since we have brains all of us would find that very appealing. Unfortunately some kids don't seem to care that they see a cow pasture when they look out their dorm window.

 

[Hailpitt]

You guys are putting a lot of weight to Pederson's attendance figures from the early 2000's. I was at those games--the numbers were inflated (LOL--Kent St 53,000--more like 35,000)

 

[pittdan77]

Well since we have brains all of us would find that very appealing. Unfortunately some kids don't seem to care that they see a cow pasture when they look out their dorm window.

You're right. It's a valid point that the attendance isn't the same as some of the huge state schools. But it's just one factor. He's been to every home game too so their must be something he likes about Pitt.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

Next year Pitt should tarp sections 518 - 527 at Heinz Field.
Then evaluate for further modifications.

Penn State is considering going from 107,000 to 90,000 seats.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[cruzer]

I am not sure where Doke got these attendance numbers but I got them from his blog. I seriously, seriously doubt Miami's numbers. But what the hell......let's use these. Here are city schools, the metro area they are in's population and the capacity of the stadium they play, with the percentage full.

Washington- 61,206- 3.5 million Husky Stadium 72,500 84%
Minnesota- 53,737- 3.5 million TCF Bank Stadium 50,800 100% (doesn't compute)
California- 51,160- 4.5 million California Memorial Stadium 62,467 82%
Rutgers 50,620-20.1 million High Point Solutions 52,454 97% (first year Big 10)
Arizona State- 50,486- 4 million Sun Devil Stadium 65,870 77%
Georgia Tech- 50,285- 5 million Bobby Dodd Stadium 55,000 91%
Stanford- 49,474- 4.5 million Stanford Stadium 50,000 98% (note renovated used to be 86,000)
Miami- 48,261- 5.5 million Sun Life Stadium 75,500 64% This is pure BS and inflation worse than anything Pitt has done.

View embedded media

TCU- 47,139- 6.5 million Armon G Carter Stadium 46,000 100%
Pittsburgh- 46,085- 2.3 million Heinz Field 66,000 70%
Maryland- 40,782- 8.5 million (in between Washington, DC and Baltimore) Byrd Stadium 51,500 79%
Colorado- 39,571- 2.5 million Folsom Field 53,500 74%
Cincinnati- 34,025- 2 million Nippert Stadium 40,101 85%
Northwestern- 33,888- 9.5 million Ryan Field 49,256 69%
Temple- 33,276- 6 million The Linc 69,172 48%
Vanderbilt- 32,505- 1.7 million Vanderbilt Stadium 39,790 81%
Boston College- 31,382- 4.5 million Alumni Stadium 44,500 70%
Houston- 30,313- 6 million TCDEU (brand new) 40,000 75%
South Florida- 26,138- 2.8 million Raymond James Stadium 64,450 40%
San Diego State- 24,696- 3 million Qualcomm Stadium 70,560 35%

If you notice, most of the college specific stadiums are somewhere around 50,000. Even Baylor and their lauded new stadium is actually a few thousand less than their older stadium. It is not just capacity, many people here complain about atmosphere at Heinz and it is a deterrent from people going. Well it is not that different from a restaurant, when it is always crowded, when the reservations are hard to get, chances are it continues to be full. Versus that half filled restaurant that dies a slow death.

Heinz Field is our only option right now. But it has become a bad decision. Why didn't the Rooneys build a 75-80K stadium as their then wait list suggested they could fill? Because they were smart, taking it down to 65K or so, right sizes it, insulates you a bit against some down years and always creates demand. Pitt's problem is a supply issue, too much supply, no matter what the price, eliminates the urgency to buy tickets, especially season tickets, and then the lack of demand kills any real buzz, word of mouth and walk up sales.

Then....add on top of this those gaudy, ugly, fluorescent yellow seats that again act like a highlighter to every single open seat, and a middle of the road metropolitan area, coupled that within a 200 mi radius you have tOSU, PSU and WVU, plus the presence of Notre Dame in a heavy Catholic area.....no other city school faces this kind of local sports competition except maybe Ga Tech or TCU.

Heinz needs tarped. We can finish this season 11-2, next year 12-1, and guess what, we aren't going to get 65,000 at every game. There just aren't that many college football fans in this area, let alone Pitt fans.

Thanks for the interesting stats. I've been thinking about the attendance issues and did a bit of digging of my own. Before I go into the numbers, I have a few observations and assertions (which you are free to disagree with if so inclined). My assertions:

1. College football game attendance is driven by four primary factors:

a. Alumni (who have a deep emotional connection with the school) and
b. Locals who are non-alumni
c. Population of a. and b. who are within roughly a 2 hour drive of the stadium.
d. Presence (or absence) of a local pro sports team.

2. Teams that have a local pro sports franchise will have to depend largely on alumni. Yes there are exceptions when the local college team is really, really good or playing a big game vs a name opponent, but most local non-alumni associate with the local pro team. Also, the implication of having a local pro team is that you live in a city with a sufficient population to support a variety of other entertainment alternatives.

3. Alumni are generally more emotionally attached to the school that they did their undergraduate work rather then graduate work. Part of this is simply the amount of time spent undergrad vs most grad programs. Part is that younger students form more of a bond then older ones. I'll sum it up this way, undergrad is a life experience and grad school is more of a business transaction.

4. The % of attendees at virtually any college game who travel more then a couple of hours is probably pretty low. I don't have stats, but I'd be shocked if more then 8-10% of all attendees at a typical Pitt game traveled more then 2 hours to get there. The number of non-alumni who will travel is probably close to zero.

So, with all that, here's a few stats:

Pitt total Alumni Population = ~306K worldwide

Pitt Alumni living in Allegheny and surrounding counties = ~110K

So, our "core" addressable market (alumni that are local) is only 110K. That means that to fill a stadium of 65K we need almost 60% of the alumni to attend. This also doesn't take into consideration that a significant number of these alumni are probably graduate students who aren't as emotionally connected to Pitt. Alternatively, we need far more support from non-alumni, which is simply not realistic given the presence of the Steelers.

The bottom line is that Pitt is simply not ever going to be in a position to consistently fill a 65K seat stadium, regardless of our performance.

Cruzer

 

[JoseLind13]

Huh? If they tarp it down to 50K, I promise you anybody who wants to buy tickets will be able to. Pitt probably sold 30K season tickets this year along with 10K student seats. In my plan, I'd limit the students to 5K seats and charge them $100 with a per game refund every time they swipe their ID upon exiting Heinz Field AFTER the game.

I will need to search for the link later, but I based this on the Trib's 2014 home opener article that listed Pitt with 39,000 season ticket sales + 11,000 student ticket sales + 4,000 single game/visitor sales for Delaware. It seems a safe assumption that the 4,000 number would improve for the 'name' opponents making 55 to 60,000 in sales a realistic number of seats sold per game. Aside from visitors and a few random seats, the entire lower bowl is generally sold out for all games.

 

[NMEhail2pitt]

This is the stadium that Pitt needs. 50,000. Bleacher seating (donors can keep their portable bleacher seat pads with backs in place) Bleacher seating allows for larger capacity crowds to "pack it in" tight and the crowds with no-shows to still appear crowded and packed

Other incentive opportunities: Season Ticket Holder - every game attended (ticket is used) you reveive a discount on next years season tickets or you receive a refund (a credit to an account where you can get cash back, donate back to the university for a tax writeoff, use to buy merchandise, or "bank it" for next years tickets. This can incentivize people to make sure that their tickets are being used by someone

 

[UPitt '89]

Pitt-Cincy, 2009. Crowd shots. The place can be full when the team is good and the opponent is good and the stakes are high.

 

[The Loaded Italian]

I am not sure where Doke got these attendance numbers but I got them from his blog. I seriously, seriously doubt Miami's numbers. But what the hell......let's use these. Here are city schools, the metro area they are in's population and the capacity of the stadium they play, with the percentage full.

Washington- 61,206- 3.5 million Husky Stadium 72,500 84%
Minnesota- 53,737- 3.5 million TCF Bank Stadium 50,800 100% (doesn't compute)
California- 51,160- 4.5 million California Memorial Stadium 62,467 82%
Rutgers 50,620-20.1 million High Point Solutions 52,454 97% (first year Big 10)
Arizona State- 50,486- 4 million Sun Devil Stadium 65,870 77%
Georgia Tech- 50,285- 5 million Bobby Dodd Stadium 55,000 91%
Stanford- 49,474- 4.5 million Stanford Stadium 50,000 98% (note renovated used to be 86,000)
Miami- 48,261- 5.5 million Sun Life Stadium 75,500 64% This is pure BS and inflation worse than anything Pitt has done.

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TCU- 47,139- 6.5 million Armon G Carter Stadium 46,000 100%
Pittsburgh- 46,085- 2.3 million Heinz Field 66,000 70%
Maryland- 40,782- 8.5 million (in between Washington, DC and Baltimore) Byrd Stadium 51,500 79%
Colorado- 39,571- 2.5 million Folsom Field 53,500 74%
Cincinnati- 34,025- 2 million Nippert Stadium 40,101 85%
Northwestern- 33,888- 9.5 million Ryan Field 49,256 69%
Temple- 33,276- 6 million The Linc 69,172 48%
Vanderbilt- 32,505- 1.7 million Vanderbilt Stadium 39,790 81%
Boston College- 31,382- 4.5 million Alumni Stadium 44,500 70%
Houston- 30,313- 6 million TCDEU (brand new) 40,000 75%
South Florida- 26,138- 2.8 million Raymond James Stadium 64,450 40%
San Diego State- 24,696- 3 million Qualcomm Stadium 70,560 35%

If you notice, most of the college specific stadiums are somewhere around 50,000. Even Baylor and their lauded new stadium is actually a few thousand less than their older stadium. It is not just capacity, many people here complain about atmosphere at Heinz and it is a deterrent from people going. Well it is not that different from a restaurant, when it is always crowded, when the reservations are hard to get, chances are it continues to be full. Versus that half filled restaurant that dies a slow death.

Heinz Field is our only option right now. But it has become a bad decision. Why didn't the Rooneys build a 75-80K stadium as their then wait list suggested they could fill? Because they were smart, taking it down to 65K or so, right sizes it, insulates you a bit against some down years and always creates demand. Pitt's problem is a supply issue, too much supply, no matter what the price, eliminates the urgency to buy tickets, especially season tickets, and then the lack of demand kills any real buzz, word of mouth and walk up sales.

Then....add on top of this those gaudy, ugly, fluorescent yellow seats that again act like a highlighter to every single open seat, and a middle of the road metropolitan area, coupled that within a 200 mi radius you have tOSU, PSU and WVU, plus the presence of Notre Dame in a heavy Catholic area.....no other city school faces this kind of local sports competition except maybe Ga Tech or TCU.

Heinz needs tarped. We can finish this season 11-2, next year 12-1, and guess what, we aren't going to get 65,000 at every game. There just aren't that many college football fans in this area, let alone Pitt fans.

Seriously... good post man. And to further add to this. The population of almost all of these cities is more than Pittsburgh. As for attendance vs. population, just from a quick glance estimate from a guy with a good math mind.. we appear to be first in that ratio.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You guys are putting a lot of weight to Pederson's attendance figures from the early 2000's. I was at those games--the numbers were inflated (LOL--Kent St 53,000--more like 35,000)

No, not that year. There were actually 50K there for Kent, 60K for the Cuse.

 

[OriginalEther]

No, not that year. There were actually 50K there for Kent, 60K for the Cuse.

Plus if one is trying the whole Blame Steve angle, he left a few months before the opener.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Pitt-Cincy, 2009. Crowd shots. The place can be full when the team is good and the opponent is good and the stakes are high.

Cincy brought a minimum of 8000 fans. There were tons of them. There were 57,000 Pitt fans there for a championship game and a spot in the Sugar Bowl. Give us circumstances like that and we can again sellout.