Could this end the NCAA?

[Sean Miller Fan]

Just to have the structure of something in hopes it creates some stability.

But the NCAA now understands that until they are employees, these things aren’t rules. They’re more like guidelines.

And yeah, kinda. The Big Ten documents that people have seen and leaked state:

1. You’re not an employee, and will never seek to be an employee.
2. You’re selling us the right to use your NIL for our financial gain, which includes licensing it to third parties.
3. You will not sign a similar deal with other schools
4. What we owe you for the licensing can go up or down based on on the field performance, at our discretion. But we’re not paying for your play. Purely your licensing. But your play impacts the value of your licensing.

They are essentially making the argument that, because we own your IP, we own you. How can you exist independent of your IP? So you aren’t allowed to transfer.

It’s a back door way of gaining employer-employee control, without recognizing them as employees.

It’s almost like the current ACC GOR. Except instead of saying, “you’re free to leave, but your media rights stay with us,” their using the grant of IP/NIL to argue that that binds the player to the school.

Literally laughed out loud at #4. Yea, right, totally not pay for play.

It is an interesting argument though. Ultimately, the courts will side with the player but its interesting nonetheless. The kid sold his name, image, and likeness to the school so the school says you can't leave because we own your name, image, and likeness.

What I dont clearly understand is why, in theory, Wisconsin still can't profit off his NIL while he is playing at Miami. I mean, yea, I get it. He is worth $0 to Wisconsin if he is at Miami. But, in theory, all they own is his NIL so if he becomes a well-known player, they could in theory profit from his jersey sales, commercials he does in Miami, etc.

The comparison to the GOR is also interesting. However, nobody is telling FSU they can't leave. They can leave anytime they want, they just don't take their home games with them. Those stay under the ACC contract.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Why does the NCAA have a transfer portal if they are saying you don't even have to enter it?

They are only saying that you don't have to enter it because the guy told them he wanted to enter the portal, and instead of following the NCAA rule that says that when a player wants to enter the portal the school has to put his name in the portal, Wisconsin said "F you, we don't want you to leave so we aren't putting you in the transfer portal."

Had Wisconsin put his name in the portal like the NCAA rules require then he would not have been allowed to transfer without entering the portal.

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

I dont understand this. Why is there a transfer portal? The NCAA basically said the transfer portal is useless in this ruling, si why have it?

And what is Wisconsin's claim? The kid, technically, doesnt have a pay for play contract. He has a marketing deal. All his marketing deal can say is something like we'll pay you X per month as long as you are living in Madison, Wisconsin. It cant be tied to play at all. It also cant force him to live in Madison. If he wants to live in Miami, what could they realistically do?

Have you seen the contract? When this goes to court - and you know it will - will we see it. Me thinks Wisconsin wouldn't be suing for breach of contract unless there was more to it. The contract verbiage acknowledged source was the B10 conference and is the standard template provided to all B10 schools for their "employee" contracts. "Employee" in quotes because it is one source of contention right now. The last thing these conferences/schools want are players to be legally labelled as "employees" because then the house of cards collapses.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Update:

As many expected, the previous policy has been rescinded so Title IX will not apply to the $20 million direct payments that schools are now allowed to pay players annually. So they can pay ONLY football and men's basketball players if they wish. And I would hope Pitt chooses to go this route.

Education Department rescinds Biden memo that threatened to upend college NIL payments

The U.S. Education Department is scrapping a policy from the Biden administration that threatened to upend colleges’ plans to pay athletes for their name, image and likeness by making those payments subject to federal Title IX rules.

apnews.com

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

This is completely unsurprising. Its almost like you still live in an era where women were subordinate to men.

Also, you completely misread the Trump position on women's sports and the Department of Education. But you be you.

Oops

 

[cashisking884]

Update:

As many expected, the previous policy has been rescinded so Title IX will not apply to the $20 million direct payments that schools are now allowed to pay players annually. So they can pay ONLY football and men's basketball players if they wish. And I would hope Pitt chooses to go this route.

Education Department rescinds Biden memo that threatened to upend college NIL payments

The U.S. Education Department is scrapping a policy from the Biden administration that threatened to upend colleges’ plans to pay athletes for their name, image and likeness by making those payments subject to federal Title IX rules.

apnews.com

It will still have to play out in courts. And recent SCOTUS ruling has done away with agency deference. So the Department of Education’s memo, one way or another, doesn’t matter much.

 

[pittdan77]

Just to have the structure of something in hopes it creates some stability.

But the NCAA now understands that until they are employees, these things aren’t rules. They’re more like guidelines.

And yeah, kinda. The Big Ten documents that people have seen and leaked state:

1. You’re not an employee, and will never seek to be an employee.
2. You’re selling us the right to use your NIL for our financial gain, which includes licensing it to third parties.
3. You will not sign a similar deal with other schools
4. What we owe you for the licensing can go up or down based on on the field performance, at our discretion. But we’re not paying for your play. Purely your licensing. But your play impacts the value of your licensing.

They are essentially making the argument that, because we own your IP, we own you. How can you exist independent of your IP? So you aren’t allowed to transfer.

It’s a back door way of gaining employer-employee control, without recognizing them as employees.

It’s almost like the current ACC GOR. Except instead of saying, “you’re free to leave, but your media rights stay with us,” their using the grant of IP/NIL to argue that that binds the player to the school.

I think NCAA rules and whatever financial agreements exist between the kids and the schools can be two separate things. It's obviously more complicated on the business side but I think the NCAA would be comfortable to let someone else fight that out in court, for once.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It will still have to play out in courts. And recent SCOTUS ruling has done away with agency deference. So the Department of Education’s memo, one way or another, doesn’t matter much.

Hmm. I wonder how they'll rule???

 

[gerrypitt]

They will rule with common sense.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Didn't Grove City bring a lawsuit challenging Title IX back in the day?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

They will rule with common sense.

Which is revenue-generating athletes should get paid and athletes who play sports which do not make money, should not

 

[FreeportPanther]

Which is revenue-generating athletes should get paid and athletes who play sports which do not make money, should not

LOL, I'm sure they'll consult you for precedent.
Think you're going to be disappointed.
Both men and women will more than likely be entitled to payment, but it won't have to be equal. That will more than likely be the end result.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

LOL, I'm sure they'll consult you for precedent.
Think you're going to be disappointed.
Both men and women will more than likely be entitled to payment, but it won't have to be equal. That will more than likely be the end result.

These aren't handouts. Business is business. If you make the school money, you get paid. If you lose the school money, you dont get paid. Easiest decision in the world.

 

[FreeportPanther]

These aren't handouts. Business is business. If you make the school money, you get paid. If you lose the school money, you dont get paid. Easiest decision in the world.

LOL, Must be nice to live in such a simple minded world.
Title IX is a law. The Courts will figure this out, not some message board genius.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

LOL, Must be nice to live in such a simple minded world.
Title IX is a law. The Courts will figure this out, not some message board genius.

We are not a nation of laws. We are a nation of judges. Find one on your team and you're good.

 

[jtownknowitall]

Didn't Grove City bring a lawsuit challenging Title IX back in the day?

Yes. They lost. So they withdrew from the Pell Grant program.