Could this end the NCAA?

[Sean Miller Fan]

Dept. of Education: Title IX applies to athlete pay

The direct payment plans that many major college athletic departments are making for athletes would violate Title IX law, according to a Department of Education memo.

www.espn.com

The Dept of Education ruled that Title IX applies to NIL payments that are paid directly from the school. Also, schools have to spend an equal amount of time promoting women's sports so that female athletes dont lose out on NIL opportunities.

The Trump administration could reverse this and there is talk that they may eliminate the Dept of Education altogether so if that happens would there even be a Title IX? Who would enforce it?

If this holds up, I think the P4 should breakaway and form a pro basketball and pro football league, paying the schools for the use of their names and facilities but not really affiliated with the schools

 

[Las Panteras]

Its only a matter of time before a non revenue athlete files suit, claiming unfair compensation, relative to football and hoops

 

[Upg bobcat]

I don't know if it's the end of NCAA, but is the House lawsuit settlement a done deal? If it isn't, I could see this ruling blowing that up. Then we are stuck with the current state of NIL which not many seem to like.

 

[NCPitt]

Dept. of Education: Title IX applies to athlete pay

The direct payment plans that many major college athletic departments are making for athletes would violate Title IX law, according to a Department of Education memo.

www.espn.com

The Dept of Education ruled that Title IX applies to NIL payments that are paid directly from the school. Also, schools have to spend an equal amount of time promoting women's sports so that female athletes dont lose out on NIL opportunities.

The Trump administration could reverse this and there is talk that they may eliminate the Dept of Education altogether so if that happens would there even be a Title IX? Who would enforce it?

If this holds up, I think the P4 should breakaway and form a pro basketball and pro football league, paying the schools for the use of their names and facilities but not really affiliated with the schools

This is completely unsurprising. Its almost like you still live in an era where women were subordinate to men.

Also, you completely misread the Trump position on women's sports and the Department of Education. But you be you.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

This is completely unsurprising. Its almost like you still live in an era where women were subordinate to men.

Also, you completely misread the Trump position on women's sports and the Department of Education. But you be you.

Women do not generate the sports revenue that men do.

Also, I did not research the Trump administration's opinion on Title IX so if you want to link that, I'd appreciate it. My guess is they overturn this. If nothing else, the oligarchs understand business. These are payments for play, but in disguise. They realize that football and basketball players should be paid more than swimmers.

 

[steelcurtain55.]

If this holds up, I think the P4 should breakaway and form a pro basketball and pro football league, paying the schools for the use of their names and facilities but not really affiliated with the schools

This is going to happen regardless. The bigger question is how does this affect the NFL and how will they respond.

 

[BigChungus90210]

I'm not saying the Universities shouldn't care about women's sports and shouldn't try to promote them, but you can only do so much. Completely changing the public's perception and trying to overhaul interests is a losing battle, as is sinking money into something that won't be supported.

All this does is make a handful of people feel better about themselves in the short term, and in no way is feasible or realistic in the long haul.

 

[NCPitt]

Women do not generate the sports revenue that men do.

Also, I did not research the Trump administration's opinion on Title IX so if you want to link that, I'd appreciate it. My guess is they overturn this. If nothing else, the oligarchs understand business. These are payments for play, but in disguise. They realize that football and basketball players should be paid more than swimmers.

You're confused about the role of college athletics. Always have been.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Women do not generate the sports revenue that men do.

Also, I did not research the Trump administration's opinion on Title IX so if you want to link that, I'd appreciate it. My guess is they overturn this. If nothing else, the oligarchs understand business. These are payments for play, but in disguise. They realize that football and basketball players should be paid more than swimmers.

Your use of the word oligarch is cute. I’ve been using it for years on this board, and only now do you start using it. I wonder why??

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

You're confused about the role of college athletics. Always have been.

And that is???????

 

[HailtoPitt]

The better question this. When the schools do decide to break away, who will they cut out in that process? Do we really expect Ohio State and Texas to want Northwestern and Vanderbilt sharing the revenue equally?

 

[pittdan77]

If this holds up, I think the P4 should breakaway and form a pro basketball and pro football league, paying the schools for the use of their names and facilities but not really affiliated with the schools

Title IX is a law. Besides, the schools having a pro league would just cause the real pro leagues to put them out of business.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

You're confused about the role of college athletics. Always have been.

Its not 1935. 60ish colleges have pro football and pro basketball teams. The 1935 vision of college atheltics has changed. Get over it. Football and basketball need to disassociate with their universities to avoid swimmers and softball players making equal pay....unless our oligarchy can fix it.

 

[TheWerewolfFromTwilight]

This is extremely silly, but I'm sure it's just a means of appealing to constituents on the way out. Either that or it's akin to roughing up a foreclosed house just to make it a little more difficult for the next guy. But it won't stand, and it shouldn't. Frankly, it's so tiresome to see the concepts of equal opportunity and equal outcome conflated so often.

Of course the ultimate irony will be when it expedites the revenue sports' departure from the NCAA, which causes many of these Olympic sports to fold up shop.

 

[PittPharm2002]

This is going to happen regardless. The bigger question is how does this affect the NFL and how will they respond.

It doesn’t
Why would the NFL care at all ?

 

[AllegeneeGenacGenac]

It just ensures that football and men's basketball players won't be paid market rate by the schools themselves, which leaves the door open for all of the NIL alliances and associated shenanigans to continue.

I wish they would just hurry up and reach the end state (which will most likely be players as employees and whatever schools are left playing major college football agreeing to collective bargaining and a salary cap of some sort like the professional league it is) instead of continuing to watch a slow motion train wreck where my school is merely a passenger.

If this is actually enforced and there's any limits on NIL payments, expect some prominent men's athlete to sue someone (probably their current or former school) for restricting their earnings potential. And they'll win easily at some level of the judicial process, most importantly the final one.

 

[cashisking884]

The NCAA is already over. It’s like the NWA (national wrestling alliance) in 1993. It exists in name only.

The DB from Wisconsin just announced he is enrolling at Miami.

He never entered the transfer portal, which is against NCAA rules.

Wisconsin never entered him into the transfer portal despite the NCAA rule stating a school must within 48 hours of giving notice.

The rumor was because he signed a deal with a Wisconsin collective, Wisconsin looked at itself as being the beneficiary of the deal, and so had a right to enforce it. Which is against NCAA rules.

Both sides just didn’t care about any NCAA rule, because it doesn’t exist anymore.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

DOJ just released an 11 page statement. Cant read it yet. Seeing tweets saying they are asking Wilken to not approve the salary cap part of the House deal. As DOJ is supposed to be non-partisan, from the tiny bit of info I've seen, this comes across as a pro-right move but its hard to say.

 

[cashisking884]

The NCAA is already over. It’s like the NWA (national wrestling alliance) in 1993. It exists in name only.

The DB from Wisconsin just announced he is enrolling at Miami.

He never entered the transfer portal, which is against NCAA rules.

Wisconsin never entered him into the transfer portal despite the NCAA rule stating a school must within 48 hours of giving notice.

The rumor was because he signed a deal with a Wisconsin collective, Wisconsin looked at itself as being the beneficiary of the deal, and so had a right to enforce it. Which is against NCAA rules.

Both sides just didn’t care about any NCAA rule, because it doesn’t exist anymore.

Wisconsin and the Big Ten just put out statements saying they are going looking into legal recourse against Miami and/or Lucas.

This whole thing is wild. Wisconsin’s statement of facts and their reasoning for all of this is all kinds of illegal. And they have to know this.

The NCAA has already come out and said what Lucas did was legal by NCAA rules, and he can play at Miami.

And it doesn’t matter. The NCAA is powerless to stop Wisky/Big Ten from shutting up and not blowing all of this up. Is powerless to make Lucas actually enter the portal.

The NCAA is like the dude in the Titanic movie that was a big shot for the shipping company and controlled what the captain did. All that prestige and title matters for nothing when the ship is going down. You’re powerless to stop it, and everybody else on board is doing whatever they want.

 

[Upg bobcat]

Wisconsin and the Big Ten just put out statements saying they are going looking into legal recourse against Miami and/or Lucas.

This whole thing is wild. Wisconsin’s statement of facts and their reasoning for all of this is all kinds of illegal. And they have to know this.

The NCAA has already come out and said what Lucas did was legal by NCAA rules, and he can play at Miami.

And it doesn’t matter. The NCAA is powerless to stop Wisky/Big Ten from shutting up and not blowing all of this up. Is powerless to make Lucas actually enter the portal.

The NCAA is like the dude in the Titanic movie that was a big shot for the shipping company and controlled what the captain did. All that prestige and title matters for nothing when the ship is going down. You’re powerless to stop it, and everybody else on board is doing whatever they want.

Can you not block a kid from transferring anymore, at least to a certain degree? I remember not that long ago, with Pitt hoops under Stallings, Pitt had the ability to block Cam Johnson from going to UNC, and was actually going to do it until outrage from journalists made Stallings change course. Or is that out the door now with the new unlimited transfers?

If there really are no transfer rules, what's stopping Pitt from using its NIL to hire a mole to play for some school in 2025 that will be on its schedule for 2026?

 

[jtownknowitall]

The NCAA is already over. It’s like the NWA (national wrestling alliance) in 1993. It exists in name only.

The DB from Wisconsin just announced he is enrolling at Miami.

He never entered the transfer portal, which is against NCAA rules.

Wisconsin never entered him into the transfer portal despite the NCAA rule stating a school must within 48 hours of giving notice.

The rumor was because he signed a deal with a Wisconsin collective, Wisconsin looked at itself as being the beneficiary of the deal, and so had a right to enforce it. Which is against NCAA rules.

Both sides just didn’t care about any NCAA rule, because it doesn’t exist anymore.

Perhaps Miami and Wisconsin can work out a trade to benefit both teams.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Private investors should buy these programs and the use of their names and logos from the universities and run them as Under 23 pro leagues. Take classes, dont take classes, doesnt matter. It would be fully professional. There are 2 universities in Mexico who did this for their soccer teams. It can happen

If this is the end game for all this chaos, they better rename it into something other than College Sports.
And, then somehow the NFL should be forced to invest capital into the system because it would be their minor league farm system.

Take the colleges and Universities out of this fiasco completely. Let it go it's own merry way and start over with a new model for college athletics featuring true student athletes.

I'm amused at how any proud Pitt alumni, or any alumnus of any University, would not see through this charade and refuse to support it because you're basically rooting for a shirt!
If this comes to pass, and people think fans are going to enthusiastically donate and support this anymore than they support the Altoona Curve or the Erie Seawolves, well good luck with that!! LOL


https://pittsburgh.forums.rivals.com/posts/4754231/react?reaction_id=1

 

[cashisking884]

Can you not block a kid from transferring anymore, at least to a certain degree? I remember not that long ago, with Pitt hoops under Stallings, Pitt had the ability to block Cam Johnson from going to UNC, and was actually going to do it until outrage from journalists made Stallings change course. Or is that out the door now with the new unlimited transfers?

If there really are no transfer rules, what's stopping Pitt from using its NIL to hire a mole to play for some school in 2025 that will be on its schedule for 2026?

Nope.

The SCOTUS has come out and said:

You cannot control these players until you recognize them as employees. Until then, they are just students. You have no more interest in how they make money and where they go, than you do with any other students.

Every regulation on salary, movement, years of eligibility, etc. is illegal under that ruling.

The NCAA now realizes that. So are giving in on everything in hopes that they will be able to maintain their seat ar the table a bit longer.

But because they are just a figurehead, they can’t get the schools/conferences to not force the issue and usher in D-Day.

 

[cashisking884]

Perhaps Miami and Wisconsin can work out a trade to benefit both teams.

They kinda did.

Wisconsin took Miami’s CB, Miami took Wisconsin’s.

But the Miami corner is rated a .86 3* in the portal.

The Wisconsin corner a .92 4*.

So Wisky would probably take issue with the trade being beneficial to them.

 

[jtownknowitall]

They kinda did.

Wisconsin took Miami’s CB, Miami took Wisconsin’s.

But the Miami corner is rated a .86 3* in the portal.

The Wisconsin corner a .92 4*.

So Wisky would probably take issue with the trade being beneficial to them.

Miami should have included future considerations in the deal. Or Bonus pool money.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Private investors should buy these programs and the use of their names and logos from the universities and run them as Under 23 pro leagues. Take classes, dont take classes, doesnt matter. It would be fully professional. There are 2 universities in Mexico who did this for their soccer teams. It can happen

If this is the end game for all this chaos, they better rename it into something other than College Sports.

Yea. The National Professional Collegiate Football League or something like that.

 

[ChiefJusticeMarshall]

Private investors should buy these programs and the use of their names and logos from the universities and run them as Under 23 pro leagues. Take classes, dont take classes, doesnt matter. It would be fully professional. There are 2 universities in Mexico who did this for their soccer teams. It can happen

If this is the end game for all this chaos, they better rename it into something other than College Sports.
And, then somehow the NFL should be forced to invest capital into the system because it would be their minor league farm system.

Take the colleges and Universities out of this fiasco completely. Let it go it's own merry way and start over with a new model for college athletics featuring true student athletes.

I'm amused at how any proud Pitt alumni, or any alumnus of any University, would not see through this charade and refuse to support it because you're basically rooting for a shirt!
If this comes to pass, and people think fans are going to enthusiastically donate and support this anymore than they support the Altoona Curve or the Erie Seawolves, well good luck with that!! LOL


https://pittsburgh.forums.rivals.com/posts/4754231/react?reaction_id=1

Honestly, with these multiple transfers, these guys aren't students now. There is no way they are getting transferrable credits and course work to be eligible.

 

[FreeportPanther]

Honestly, with these multiple transfers, these guys aren't students now. There is no way they are getting transferrable credits and course work to be eligible.

Of course they aren't. It is a charade. A shell game. It ISN'T college athletics!

 

[FreeportPanther]

Yea. The National Professional Collegiate Football League or something like that.

The National Professional Junior Football League.
NOTHING COLLEGIATE ABOUT IT!!!

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

The National Professional Junior Football League.
NOTHING COLLEGIATE ABOUT IT!!!

University Football League

 

[FreeportPanther]

University Football League

You can support it with the same zeal you supported the old system. Nada!!!
Have fun.

 

[Las Panteras]

I agree with Freeport Panther.

If the schools stay under the NCAA or break away, it really doesn't matter.

As time goes by, more fanboys will put their pom poms aside and wake up to reality of minor league football.

And just like minor league baseball and basketball, there is less interest, less revenue, less TV, etc.

The unintended consequence will be more college fanboys realizing that if they want to watch professional football, why not watch the best?

I truly believe the NFL sees this entire mess as a financial bonanza for the Owners and the status of the league, as if it needs any more.

 

[Upg bobcat]

I agree with Freeport Panther.

If the schools stay under the NCAA or break away, it really doesn't matter.

As time goes by, more fanboys will put their pom poms aside and wake up to reality of minor league football.

And just like minor league baseball and basketball, there is less interest, less revenue, less TV, etc.

The unintended consequence will be more college fanboys realizing that if they want to watch professional football, why not watch the best?

I truly believe the NFL sees this entire mess as a financial bonanza for the Owners and the status of the league, as if it needs any more.

I don't know man, college football is massively popular. I know this is going back many decades at this point, but it was traditionally more popular than pro football. I think if the NFL owners are smart, they do something to crush it.

You got to remember, college football has always been the minor league for the NFL, it's not a new minor league all of a sudden. And the beauty of it as their minor league is that they didn't have to pay a penny for it. In contrast, MLB owners have to foot the bill for minor league baseball. If college football becomes a competing pro league, that is a threat to the NFL.

 

[Las Panteras]

I don't know man, college football is massively popular. I know this is going back many decades at this point, but it was traditionally more popular than pro football. I think if the NFL owners are smart, they do something to crush it.

You got to remember, college football has always been the minor league for the NFL, it's not a new minor league all of a sudden. And the beauty of it as their minor league is that they didn't have to pay a penny for it. In contrast, MLB owners have to foot the bill for minor league baseball. If college football becomes a competing pro league, that is a threat to the NFL.

It is a fascinating story. You may very well be right. Whatever the outcome, I suspect it wont happen anytime soon.

 

[Black_Man_Panther]

This is going to happen regardless. The bigger question is how does this affect the NFL and how will they respond.

Bingo. The lawsuit w/ the Wisconsin player reneging on his 2-year contract and leaving for Miami could be the final nail in the coffin. If the player wins and Wisconsin/B10 is found to collude based on anti-trust law, what exactly are other professional sport unions going to do? All contracts are open-ended 1 year deals? These clowns are entering uncharted territory right now.

 

[TD_6082]

Nope.

The SCOTUS has come out and said:

You cannot control these players until you recognize them as employees. Until then, they are just students. You have no more interest in how they make money and where they go, than you do with any other students.

Every regulation on salary, movement, years of eligibility, etc. is illegal under that ruling.

The NCAA now realizes that. So are giving in on everything in hopes that they will be able to maintain their seat ar the table a bit longer.

But because they are just a figurehead, they can’t get the schools/conferences to not force the issue and usher in D-Day.

Yep.

Pitt should have enrolled the OL from Texas and let him play.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Bingo. The lawsuit w/ the Wisconsin player reneging on his 2-year contract and leaving for Miami could be the final nail in the coffin. If the player wins and Wisconsin/B10 is found to collude based on anti-trust law, what exactly are other professional sport unions going to do? All contracts are open-ended 1 year deals? These clowns are entering uncharted territory right now.

I dont understand this. Why is there a transfer portal? The NCAA basically said the transfer portal is useless in this ruling, si why have it?

And what is Wisconsin's claim? The kid, technically, doesnt have a pay for play contract. He has a marketing deal. All his marketing deal can say is something like we'll pay you X per month as long as you are living in Madison, Wisconsin. It cant be tied to play at all. It also cant force him to live in Madison. If he wants to live in Miami, what could they realistically do?

 

[cashisking884]

I dont understand this. Why is there a transfer portal? The NCAA basically said the transfer portal is useless in this ruling, si why have it?

And what is Wisconsin's claim? The kid, technically, doesnt have a pay for play contract. He has a marketing deal. All his marketing deal can say is something like we'll pay you X per month as long as you are living in Madison, Wisconsin. It cant be tied to play at all. It also cant force him to live in Madison. If he wants to live in Miami, what could they realistically do?

Their claims are kind of insane, but apparently this is a Big Ten drafted document, that all members are using. Which is why the Big Ten has come out firing too.

and it is pay for play. Just not salary, but licensing.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Their claims are kind of insane, but apparently this is a Big Ten drafted document, that all members are using. Which is why the Big Ten has come out firing too.

and it is pay for play. Just not salary, but licensing.

I still don't understand it. Why does the NCAA have a transfer portal if they are saying you don't even have to enter it?

Are you saying that this Wisconsin kid isn't on a "marketing deal" but rather licensing? What does that even mean? He licenses his football talent to Wisconsin? WTF?

 

[cashisking884]

I still don't understand it. Why does the NCAA have a transfer portal if they are saying you don't even have to enter it?

Are you saying that this Wisconsin kid isn't on a "marketing deal" but rather licensing? What does that even mean? He licenses his football talent to Wisconsin? WTF?

Just to have the structure of something in hopes it creates some stability.

But the NCAA now understands that until they are employees, these things aren’t rules. They’re more like guidelines.

And yeah, kinda. The Big Ten documents that people have seen and leaked state:

1. You’re not an employee, and will never seek to be an employee.
2. You’re selling us the right to use your NIL for our financial gain, which includes licensing it to third parties.
3. You will not sign a similar deal with other schools
4. What we owe you for the licensing can go up or down based on on the field performance, at our discretion. But we’re not paying for your play. Purely your licensing. But your play impacts the value of your licensing.

They are essentially making the argument that, because we own your IP, we own you. How can you exist independent of your IP? So you aren’t allowed to transfer.

It’s a back door way of gaining employer-employee control, without recognizing them as employees.

It’s almost like the current ACC GOR. Except instead of saying, “you’re free to leave, but your media rights stay with us,” their using the grant of IP/NIL to argue that that binds the player to the school.