Coulibaly and Brown

[DC_Area_Panther]

Completely, completely agree! This is why Terrell Brown is likely to be our starting center next year (as long as he doesn't transfer of course). It's not that he'll be that good, but he'll most likely be the best we'll have next year. To SMF's point, perhaps that means we won't be even a bubble team this year. Perhaps he's right.

But no one ever suggested that the road back would be quick or easy. That is, until Capel is able to one of the couple guys left for the rest of the country Thompson was talking about.

"To SMF's point, perhaps that means we won't be even a bubble team this year. Perhaps he's right."

So, what will it take to be a bubble team next season? Or, even the NIT? Or, lastly, get enough wins to make Pitt fans believe that the trajectory of Pitt hoops is continuing upward?

IMHO-- Even with a more talented team that we are expecting, the schedule is on paper far more more difficult.

We play 20 (vs 18) ACC games and 11 (vs 13) OOC games. And, in the OOC we have a Big 10 challenge game, West Virginia and better than last year early season tournament opponents with Bradley followed by either Kansas State or Northwestern to play in Fort Myers Tipoff.

(1) So, how do we get to at least 19 wins prior to the ACC Tourney to get on the bubble? It would likely take going 9-2 OOC (not easy) and 10-10 ACC to get to 19-12. Anything less would likely require winning 2-3 games in the ACC Tourney to get to a 19-20 wins total.

(2) Short of getting to 19 wins and the bubble, what would it take to make the NIT?

IMO, getting at least one game over 0.500 would be needed to make the NIT. That would likely require something like 8-3 OOC + 8-12 ACC and going 1-1 in the ACC Tourney to finish 17-16 overall. Even that will be difficult.

(3) What minimal outcome would make casual Pitt fans believe the trajectory is continuing upward?

IMHO, that will take finishing within 3 games of 0.500 with a significant increase in ACC wins. IMO, that would, at a minimum, look something like 8-3 OOC + 6-14 ACC to get to 14-17 prior to the ACC tourney and an overall W-L finish marginally better than this past season's final 14-19 mark with perception saved by the having doubled the number of ACC wins.

Bottom Line: IMO, at the present moment next year's roster doesn't appear capable of the bubble or NIT. Even showing an upward trajectory appears a toss-up at this moment.

We all hope the closeout to recruiting will add enough additional talent to at least assure a continued upward trajectory at a minimum and, perhaps, even add enough to push chances to the NIT or bubble range.

We ought to know the answer by June, perhaps sooner. It should be interesting.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

The problem is multi-faceted. Brown's warts showed up a lot more last season than his first, because HCJC runs a completely different system, on both sides of the court than Stallings.

Brown was a fit in Stallings system which ideally would have two complimentary big men, and was not as aggressive on either end of the floor - played a soft man defense and basically passed the ball around until someone could jack up a three.

Despite the spin when he was hired, his teams played slow and passive.

So, Brown's feet were not exposed - though even then his passivity and off (far too often) and on motor was very evident.

But, IF Stallings was able to get a center to pair with him, he could be a PF who got a lot of weak side blocks, chipped in on the boards, got his face up shots, etc.

The problem is that HCJC uses a one in, four out on both sides of the court, and the center has to be someone who is both able to move his feet AND control the paint, particularly on defense.

That is why Kene was the starter the first month or so of the season, and as the season progressed HCJC kept going back to him. When Brown was engaged, or had a more favorable matchup like the Cuse, he would play because Kene has so little to offer.

But, when Brown was not engaged, at the very least Kene was able to move on defense, and occasionally convert a pick and roll.

Brown's warts were just a lot more glaring in a system, and with a coach, that requires players to be mobile, aggressive, play with fire, and extent on both sides of the court.

He is tall and long, and has the body, and SOME skill. But, his limitations with his hands and feet restrict his ceiling, and he has to find a way to connect with, or develop an inner warrior spirit if he is going to help this team win games regularly.

"The problem is that HCJC uses a one in, four out on both sides of the court, and the center has to be someone who is both able to move his feet AND control the paint, particularly on defense.

That is why Kene was the starter the first month or so of the season, and as the season progressed HCJC kept going back to him. When Brown was engaged, or had a more favorable matchup like the Cuse, he would play because Kene has so little to offer."

This was, of course, true last season. However, perhaps it was more Capel taking an approach out of necessity rather than as a permanent coaching philosophy?

After all, Capel did not have the player(s) on the roster to do anything else with Kene and Brown the only bigs and neither really suited for the role of a primary back to the basket big. Also, on top of that deficiency, playing them both together would have created an increased risk of having both foul out and leaving no one taller than 6-6 on the court.

So, perhaps the approach taken would change if a player like Sy was added who is capable of being a primary big. If so, Brown backed by Coulibaly/Chukwuka could be played as a secondary big much of the time. The more bigs you have on a roster the less likely you are to play only one at a time.

Perhaps we will find out the answer to my speculation next November?

 

[Chescat]

We can argue all day and I’m sure we will but we have no say in it.

Very true....but isn't that part of the purpose of a message board like this.
Personally, I've argued my point in this thread, but I enjoy reading and
engaging other and opposing viewpoints knowing full well that Capel
makes his own decisions. Gee whiz, I can't imagine why Capel doesn't
ask us for advice on Brown. LOL

 

[Jeffburgh]

"The problem is that HCJC uses a one in, four out on both sides of the court, and the center has to be someone who is both able to move his feet AND control the paint, particularly on defense.

That is why Kene was the starter the first month or so of the season, and as the season progressed HCJC kept going back to him. When Brown was engaged, or had a more favorable matchup like the Cuse, he would play because Kene has so little to offer."

This was, of course, true last season. However, perhaps it was more Capel taking an approach out of necessity rather than as a permanent coaching philosophy?

After all, Capel did not have the player(s) on the roster to do anything else with Kene and Brown the only bigs and neither really suited for the role of a primary back to the basket big. Also, on top of that deficiency, playing them both together would have created an increased risk of having both foul out and leaving no one taller than 6-6 on the court.

So, perhaps the approach taken would change if a player like Sy was added who is capable of being a primary big. If so, Brown backed by Coulibaly/Chukwuka could be played as a secondary big much of the time. The more bigs you have on a roster the less likely you are to play only one at a time.

Perhaps we will find out the answer to my speculation next November?

I will say with absolute confidence Brown will never play PF for HCJC.

I doubt Kene would, even though he probably is mobile enough, he no other other skills.

As of today, Coulibaly is the C recruit in this class, he night be able to play some PF, depending on matchups, but he is thicker now than he was when he was projected as a SF.

HCJC said coming in he was going to be a 1 in/4 out guy, and if you look at Oklahoma, that is what he did there, he did not have lumbering PFs.

Even at Duke - they have the recruiting juice to get those top 25 freak 6-9 guys who genuinely have SF skills. So, they might have 6-9, 230 kids a PF, but they can pick up on SFs in man switches on defense, and shot faking and driving from 18 feet.

Now, I want Sy DESPERATELY - to give them someone who at best is better than Brown, but at worst will be better than Kene in a 20-20 split with Brown, and give Brown an actual big man to have to compete/practice against.

 

[Chescat]

Now, I want Sy DESPERATELY - to give them someone who at best is better than Brown, but at worst will be better than Kene in a 20-20 split with Brown, and give Brown an actual big man to have to compete/practice against.

EXACTLY! I've been posting this for weeks. Sy starts and Brown, Kene, and
Coulibaly back him up. It also allows another Big to play alongside Sy if Capel
wants to go that route. We have enough openings now to even bring in another
frosh Big and another guard in case Sidy leaves.
Something that hasn't been mentioned.....Kene is not the Big we need or want in
a one-four alignment. He is however a viable option as a forward along side a
big like Sy. Kene can at least move his feet. He has a floor game that Brown
does not have. A legitimate Big next to him would also make Kene a better
rebounder. This would then let Brown be the backup to Sy.
This is the scenario that would IMO make us immensely better, giving us an
inside presence we so deperately need.

 

[gary2]

I will say with absolute confidence Brown will never play PF for HCJC.

I doubt Kene would, even though he probably is mobile enough, he no other other skills.

As of today, Coulibaly is the C recruit in this class, he night be able to play some PF, depending on matchups, but he is thicker now than he was when he was projected as a SF.

HCJC said coming in he was going to be a 1 in/4 out guy, and if you look at Oklahoma, that is what he did there, he did not have lumbering PFs.

Even at Duke - they have the recruiting juice to get those top 25 freak 6-9 guys who genuinely have SF skills. So, they might have 6-9, 230 kids a PF, but they can pick up on SFs in man switches on defense, and shot faking and driving from 18 feet.

Now, I want Sy DESPERATELY - to give them someone who at best is better than Brown, but at worst will be better than Kene in a 20-20 split with Brown, and give Brown an actual big man to have to compete/practice against.

I am starting to get a feeling that none of the 3 bigs we are known to be recruiting end up at Pitt.

I still think we add 2 bigs. If one is ORN, Sy or Diallo, I think it will be ORN.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I am starting to get a feeling that none of the 3 bigs we are known to be recruiting end up at Pitt.

I still think we add 2 bigs. If one is ORN, Sy or Diallo, I think it will be ORN.

Yes. You may be right. The longer things go without a commit after a player's visit the more likely it becomes that the player is more likely to commit elsewhere. That is why I am generally more optimistic when Pitt gets a player's last official visit rather than his first.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

I am starting to get a feeling that none of the 3 bigs we are known to be recruiting end up at Pitt.

I still think we add 2 bigs. If one is ORN, Sy or Diallo, I think it will be ORN.

If I had to bet money, I'd say Diallo to OSU, Sy to Ole Miss, and the Finnisher to Pitt.

 

[gary2]

If I had to bet money, I'd say Diallo to OSU, Sy to Ole Miss, and the Finnisher to Pitt.

I am surprised that Diallo is good enough for Ohio St.

 

[PhysicalOatmeal]

I’m new on this board, but are all college sports fans as pessimistic as Pitt fans? Jeez people, the signing period hasn’t even started — technically, we have no recruits lol. I’m sure Capel will handle it just fine, we just gotta be patient

 

[Jeffburgh]

I am starting to get a feeling that none of the 3 bigs we are known to be recruiting end up at Pitt.

I still think we add 2 bigs. If one is ORN, Sy or Diallo, I think it will be ORN.

I like ORN a good bit, I would certainly like if that worked out.

 

[Drew1208]

I’m new on this board, but are all college sports fans as pessimistic as Pitt fans? Jeez people, the signing period hasn’t even started — technically, we have no recruits lol. I’m sure Capel will handle it just fine, we just gotta be patient

Welcome to the board. Buckle up.

 

[DT_PITT]

I’m new on this board, but are all college sports fans as pessimistic as Pitt fans? Jeez people, the signing period hasn’t even started — technically, we have no recruits lol. I’m sure Capel will handle it just fine, we just gotta be patient

Lol!

Yep ... new to the board for sure!!

 

[Oregon_Panther]

I feel like I’ve walked into a cable news network show, with talking heads speculating about things that may or may not happen...enjoyable, but solves zip.

Luv all you folks...live from Kauai!

Hail to PITT!
-al-

 

[rickt113]

I think he will be Good at C or PF. Liked the video at top. He is smooth & can rebound. H2P !

 

[wbrpanther]

I’m new on this board, but are all college sports fans as pessimistic as Pitt fans? Jeez people, the signing period hasn’t even started — technically, we have no recruits lol. I’m sure Capel will handle it just fine, we just gotta be patient

If stuff like that bothers you, find a good strong wall and start beating your head off of it. I have been doing that for over 20 years now.