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Example of when I say HC is all that matters (analysis)

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Sean Miller Fan

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A few weeks ago, I posted that the name of the program doesn't matter in college basketball and they might as well just call the teams "Team Wright, Team Musselman," etc like in Youth Sports leagues because those guys are going to win anywhere regardless of what school they're at.

So lets apply that to this year's P6 standings. You will notice, and this shouldn't be a surprise, the "guarantees" are at the top of the standings and the other guys are at the bottom.

SEC.

1. Pearl
2. Calipari/Barnes
4. Musselman
5. Wade/Oats/Williams/Musselman/White
---------
10. Howland (not sure what happened to him after Pitt/early UCLA)
11. Stackhouse
12. Cuonzo
13. Kermit Davis (lottery ticket)
14. Crean

Big Ten
1. Gard
2. Underwood
3. Painter
4. McCafferty/Holtman
6. Pikiell
7. Izzo/Howard
-----------
9. Woodson
10. MD fired
11. Shrewsbury
12. Collins
13. Johnson
14. Hoiberg (this one really surprises me)

Big 12

1. Drew/Self
3. Adams (Beard's assistant and coaching his team)
4. Beard
----------
5. Dixon/Boynton
7. Otzelberger/Moser
9. Weber (lost his fastball)
10. Huggins (it happens)

ACC
1. K
2. Davis/Brey
4. Larranaga
5. Forbes
6. Bennett
7. Young
8. Hamilton
9. Boeheim
---------
10. Brownell
11. Capel/Grant/Lou fired
14. Pastner
15. Keatts

Big East
1. Cooley
2. Wright
3. Hurley
4. McDermott
5. Smart/Willard
--------
7. Anderson
8. Steele
9. Jordan/Leitao
11. Ewing

Notice any trends? The best coaches have the best teams. I realize this is very difficult for Pitt to do but if they want to win in the sport of basketball, they have to pay up and make a WTF hire for one of the guys above the dotted lines. If they don't, there's very little chance that their lottery ticket will turn into one. The odds are heavily stacked against that.
 
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Sean Miller Fan said:
A few weeks ago, I posted that the name of the program doesn't matter in college basketball and they might as well just call the teams "Team Wright, Team Musselman," etc like in Youth Sports leagues because those guys are going to win anywhere regardless of what school they're at.

So lets apply that to this year's P6 standings. You will notice, and this shouldn't be a surprise, the "guarantees" are at the top of the standings and the other guys are at the bottom.

SEC.

1. Pearl
2. Calipari/Barnes
4. Musselman
5. Wade/Oats/Williams/Musselman/White
---------
10. Howland (not sure what happened to him after Pitt/early UCLA)
11. Stackhouse
12. Cuonzo
13. Kermit Davis (lottery ticket)
14. Crean

Big Ten
1. Gard
2. Underwood
3. Painter
4. McCafferty/Holtman
6. Pikiell
7. Izzo/Howard
-----------
9. Woodson
10. MD fired
11. Shrewsbury
12. Collins
13. Johnson
14. Hoiberg (this one really surprises me)

Big 12

1. Drew/Self
3. Adams (Beard's assistant and coaching his team)
4. Beard
----------
5. Dixon/Boynton
7. Otzelberger/Moser
9. Weber (lost his fastball)
10. Huggins (it happens)

ACC
1. K
2. Davis/Brey
4. Larranaga
5. Forbes
6. Bennett
7. Young
8. Hamilton
9. Boeheim
---------
10. Brownell
11. Capel/Grant/Lou fired
14. Pastner
15. Keatts

Big East
1. Cooley
2. Wright
3. Hurley
4. McDermott
5. Smart/Willard
--------
7. Anderson
8. Steele
9. Jordan/Leitao
11. Ewing

Notice any trends? The best coaches have the best teams. I realize this is very difficult for Pitt to do but if they want to win in the sport of basketball, they have to pay up and make a WTF hire for one of the guys above the dotted lines. If they don't, there's very little chance that their lottery ticket will turn into one. The odds are heavily stacked against that.
Click to expand...
Best jobs in each league:
Kentucky - 2nd
Big ten - Ohio State/Indiana, top 4 and first year
Kansas - 1st
Duke - 1st
Villanova, 2nd. 2nd best job, Providence. 1st.

notice a trend?
 
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BballinsiderfromPitt said:
Best jobs in each league:
Kentucky - 2nd
Big ten - Ohio State/Indiana, top 4 and first year
Kansas - 1st
Duke - 1st
Villanova, 2nd. 2nd best job, Providence. 1st.

notice a trend?
Click to expand...
Was it necessary to cite 3 blue bloods?

Also, Providence? They have won just about nothing between Pitino and Cooley. That one's a head scratcher. Wow.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
A few weeks ago, I posted that the name of the program doesn't matter in college basketball and they might as well just call the teams "Team Wright, Team Musselman," etc like in Youth Sports leagues because those guys are going to win anywhere regardless of what school they're at.

So lets apply that to this year's P6 standings. You will notice, and this shouldn't be a surprise, the "guarantees" are at the top of the standings and the other guys are at the bottom.

SEC.

1. Pearl
2. Calipari/Barnes
4. Musselman
5. Wade/Oats/Williams/Musselman/White
---------
10. Howland (not sure what happened to him after Pitt/early UCLA)
11. Stackhouse
12. Cuonzo
13. Kermit Davis (lottery ticket)
14. Crean

Big Ten
1. Gard
2. Underwood
3. Painter
4. McCafferty/Holtman
6. Pikiell
7. Izzo/Howard
-----------
9. Woodson
10. MD fired
11. Shrewsbury
12. Collins
13. Johnson
14. Hoiberg (this one really surprises me)

Big 12

1. Drew/Self
3. Adams (Beard's assistant and coaching his team)
4. Beard
----------
5. Dixon/Boynton
7. Otzelberger/Moser
9. Weber (lost his fastball)
10. Huggins (it happens)

ACC
1. K
2. Davis/Brey
4. Larranaga
5. Forbes
6. Bennett
7. Young
8. Hamilton
9. Boeheim
---------
10. Brownell
11. Capel/Grant/Lou fired
14. Pastner
15. Keatts

Big East
1. Cooley
2. Wright
3. Hurley
4. McDermott
5. Smart/Willard
--------
7. Anderson
8. Steele
9. Jordan/Leitao
11. Ewing

Notice any trends? The best coaches have the best teams. I realize this is very difficult for Pitt to do but if they want to win in the sport of basketball, they have to pay up and make a WTF hire for one of the guys above the dotted lines. If they don't, there's very little chance that their lottery ticket will turn into one. The odds are heavily stacked against that.
Click to expand...
But you don't always know, right? Did we think Howland was going to be that successful? Then Dixon?? Did we think Beilein would be so good at WVU? He was an afterthought as a hire replacing Dakich who walked out after a week or so.

You can't just look at these results and say "see". But you do see some things. Obviously the SEC has supplanted the ACC as being serious about Hoops and going after the best coaches.

I thought Chris Mack would have been a slam dunk at Louisville. Capel at Pitt. At least I thought Capel would have been capable of landing top 25 recruiting classes every year.

The ACC is going to be interesting these next 3-5 years. Roy's gone. Now K's gone. Boeheim is likely gone in a year or 2. Larranegga and Leonard Hamilton are going to be gone in a couple of years. Capel will be gone next year. Keatts probably also.
 
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recruitsreadtheseboards said:
But you don't always know, right? Did we think Howland was going to be that successful? Then Dixon?? Did we think Beilein would be so good at WVU? He was an afterthought as a hire replacing Dakich who walked out after a week or so.

You can't just look at these results and say "see". But you do see some things. Obviously the SEC has supplanted the ACC as being serious about Hoops and going after the best coaches.

I thought Chris Mack would have been a slam dunk at Louisville. Capel at Pitt. At least I thought Capel would have been capable of landing top 25 recruiting classes every year.

The ACC is going to be interesting these next 3-5 years. Roy's gone. Now K's gone. Boeheim is likely gone in a year or 2. Larranegga and Leonard Hamilton are going to be gone in a couple of years. Capel will be gone next year. Keatts probably also.
Click to expand...

Well, yea, most of the successful coaches started out as lottery tickets. So some of those guys do succeed. Pitt could get lucky and find one. But more fail than succeed so it seems extremely unlikely Heather will hit on a lottery ticket. She is pretty bad at hiring coaches.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Was it necessary to cite 3 blue bloods?

Also, Providence? They have won just about nothing between Pitino and Cooley. That one's a head scratcher. Wow.
Click to expand...
Ask anyone in the northeast what the best job is in the northeast and they’ll say Providence. Resources, players etc.

Rick Barnes won there. Pete Gillen took them to the elite 8. Tim Welch won there. All those in between Pitino and Cooley.

Pretty much their only bad coaching hire was Keno Davis. Cooley is proof positive it’s a dummy proof job because he’s not a good coach and runs a system from 1950’s
 
BballinsiderfromPitt said:
Ask anyone in the northeast what the best job is in the northeast and they’ll say Providence. Resources, players etc.

Rick Barnes won there. Pete Gillen took them to the elite 8. Tim Welch won there. All those in between Pitino and Cooley.

Pretty much their only bad coaching hire was Keno Davis. Cooley is proof positive it’s a dummy proof job because he’s not a good coach and runs a system from 1950’s
Click to expand...

Are you high or just messing with me? Providence is a nothing program. Pitino took them to the Final Four and Barnes snuck in the NCAAT and lost the first game for the 1st 2 years. From the 91 season unitl 2014 with Cooley, a 23 year period, PC made 4 NCAA Tournaments. 23 years! And Gillen's Elite 8? Please. That was a mediocre 10 seed who beat 14 seed Chattanooga in the Sweet 16. Random runs like that happen
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Are you high or just messing with me? Providence is a nothing program. Pitino took them to the Final Four and Barnes snuck in the NCAAT and lost the first game for the 1st 2 years. From the 91 season unitl 2014 with Cooley, a 23 year period, PC made 4 NCAA Tournaments. 23 years! And Gillen's Elite 8? Please. That was a mediocre 10 seed who beat 14 seed Chattanooga in the Sweet 16. Random runs like that happen
Click to expand...
See this is why you don’t know college hoops. AT ALL.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Providence man. I can't believe we're talking about Providence. Providence.
Click to expand...
I don’t usually agree with you but saying providence is a top program is just mind boggling.

I’d put UConn, nova, Xavier, Marquette, and butler ahead of them. I might even put creighton above them.
 
Ed Cooley turned down a top 10 job (Maryland) and Michigan to stay at providence. He’s not doing that for love of the city. He’s doing it because you can win there, they’ll give him every resource and pay him whatever he wants.
 
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BballinsiderfromPitt said:
Ed Cooley turned down a top 10 job (Maryland) and Michigan to stay at providence. He’s not doing that for love of the city. He’s doing it because you can win there, they’ll give him every resource and pay him whatever he wants.
Click to expand...
Lol. Dixon also turned down a ton of jobs in his time here and only left when he was pushed out.
Does that make Pitt a top program?
 
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KennyHeisman8 said:
Lol. Dixon also turned down a ton of jobs in his time here and only left when he was pushed out.
Does that make Pitt a top program?
Click to expand...
It was a much better program at the time than those he flirted with. Arizona State? Not really a step up.

People in hoops circles think Providence is a goldmine and Cooley is just the placeholder.
 
KennyHeisman8 said:
I don’t usually agree with you but saying providence is a top program is just mind boggling.

I’d put UConn, nova, Xavier, Marquette, and butler ahead of them. I might even put creighton above them.
Click to expand...

I would rank the PC job near the bottom of the Big East. I remember when Pitt and Providence went head to head for Ralph Willard. Guess who he picked? So to say PC is a better job than Pitt is, as Joe would say, batshit crazy. I would say its a better job than DePaul. Probably St. John's. Maybe Seton Hall. Better than Gtown, UConn, Marquette, Xavier, Creighton, Butler? What the effing eff? That's one of the craziest things I've ever heard
 
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BballinsiderfromPitt said:
It was a much better program at the time than those he flirted with. Arizona State? Not really a step up.

People in hoops circles think Providence is a goldmine and Cooley is just the placeholder.
Click to expand...
And yet between Pitino and Cooley, they were shit. Stop listening to AAU gym teachers
 
BballinsiderfromPitt said:
Ed Cooley turned down a top 10 job (Maryland) and Michigan to stay at providence. He’s not doing that for love of the city. He’s doing it because you can win there, they’ll give him every resource and pay him whatever he wants.
Click to expand...
It also helps that he's from there, dont ya think? At least a little. If he was from New Mexico, he'd be out
 
BballinsiderfromPitt said:
How about college head coaches? 😉. You don’t know what you don’t know. And it’s a lot about this particular subject
Click to expand...
If they think PC is a better job than UConn, Gtown, Xavier and Marquette, they aren't very smart. I will give you that maybe, maybe PC is equal to Butler, Creighton, and SHU.
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
Well, yea, most of the successful coaches started out as lottery tickets. So some of those guys do succeed. Pitt could get lucky and find one. But more fail than succeed so it seems extremely unlikely Heather will hit on a lottery ticket. She is pretty bad at hiring coaches.
Click to expand...
You really undercut your own point here. Especially as it pertains to Pitt. Most coaches outside of 2 (Cal and Pitino) are lottery picks. You can’t retroactively go back and call them guarantees. Because the school does matter in terms of their resources, willingness to cheat, recruiting base, etc.
 
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Sean Miller Fan said:
Was it necessary to cite 3 blue bloods?

Also, Providence? They have won just about nothing between Pitino and Cooley. That one's a head scratcher. Wow.
Click to expand...
They had three games canceled with no make-ups (UConn, SHU and Marquette). Nova swept them.

They will be a earlier than expected out in March, imo.
 
BballinsiderfromPitt said:
Ed Cooley turned down a top 10 job (Maryland) and Michigan to stay at providence. He’s not doing that for love of the city. He’s doing it because you can win there, they’ll give him every resource and pay him whatever he wants.
Click to expand...
Wait-Maryland is a better job than Michigan?
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
A few weeks ago, I posted that the name of the program doesn't matter in college basketball and they might as well just call the teams "Team Wright, Team Musselman," etc like in Youth Sports leagues because those guys are going to win anywhere regardless of what school they're at.

So lets apply that to this year's P6 standings. You will notice, and this shouldn't be a surprise, the "guarantees" are at the top of the standings and the other guys are at the bottom.

SEC.

1. Pearl
2. Calipari/Barnes
4. Musselman
5. Wade/Oats/Williams/Musselman/White
---------
10. Howland (not sure what happened to him after Pitt/early UCLA)
11. Stackhouse
12. Cuonzo
13. Kermit Davis (lottery ticket)
14. Crean

Big Ten
1. Gard
2. Underwood
3. Painter
4. McCafferty/Holtman
6. Pikiell
7. Izzo/Howard
-----------
9. Woodson
10. MD fired
11. Shrewsbury
12. Collins
13. Johnson
14. Hoiberg (this one really surprises me)

Big 12

1. Drew/Self
3. Adams (Beard's assistant and coaching his team)
4. Beard
----------
5. Dixon/Boynton
7. Otzelberger/Moser
9. Weber (lost his fastball)
10. Huggins (it happens)

ACC
1. K
2. Davis/Brey
4. Larranaga
5. Forbes
6. Bennett
7. Young
8. Hamilton
9. Boeheim
---------
10. Brownell
11. Capel/Grant/Lou fired
14. Pastner
15. Keatts

Big East
1. Cooley
2. Wright
3. Hurley
4. McDermott
5. Smart/Willard
--------
7. Anderson
8. Steele
9. Jordan/Leitao
11. Ewing

Notice any trends? The best coaches have the best teams. I realize this is very difficult for Pitt to do but if they want to win in the sport of basketball, they have to pay up and make a WTF hire for one of the guys above the dotted lines. If they don't, there's very little chance that their lottery ticket will turn into one. The odds are heavily stacked against that.
Click to expand...
So Wisconsin and the other 6 teams ahead of MSU have better coaches than Tom Izzo? Hubert Davis and Mike Brey are better coaches than Boeheim?

I must be missing your point-I’m sure you’re not suggesting that this year’s conference standings are somehow determinative of which teams have the best coaches in their respective leagues.
 
thebadby2 said:
So Wisconsin and the other 6 teams ahead of MSU have better coaches than Tom Izzo? Hubert Davis and Mike Brey are better coaches than Boeheim?

I must be missing your point-I’m sure you’re not suggesting that this year’s conference standings are somehow determinative of which teams have the best coaches in their respective leagues.
Click to expand...
I think that’s exactly what he’s suggesting.
 
Ski11585 said:
I think that’s exactly what he’s suggesting.
Click to expand...
I'm not. Its more of the top half of the leagues are the good coaches and the bottom half are not. The SEC is a perfect example of this. In that league, you could argue the standings actually do perfectly rank the coaches.
 
Eastern Eight said:
Get out of here.. the losing that has gone on here of late is distorting the reality that you can win here and will win here again someday. Water finds its level.
Click to expand...
I have no idea what this means? Who said we can’t win here? If the Pitt job opened tomorrow, Ed Cooley wouldn’t come to Pitt for less than 10 million a year. Providence is a better basketball job. The proximity to the best prep schools, a rabid fan base and hoops being #1 make it inarguably a job that is much more set up to win.

Yes, we can pay more money. And that has been realized by two coaches so far looking for their final retirement paycheck and zero coaches since Ben Howland was hired as a stepping stone to get to their next big job.
 
thebadby2 said:
Wait-Maryland is a better job than Michigan?
Click to expand...
??????

is this a serious question?

hoops is the driver, #1 UA program and can and will pay right guy 5-6 million a year. They can lure a Oats or someone of that ilk if they don’t panic and take Mike Brey.

proximity to talent, AGAIN.
 
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BballinsiderfromPitt said:
??????

is this a serious question?

hoops is the driver, #1 UA program and can and will pay right guy 5-6 million a year. They can lure a Oats or someone of that ilk if they don’t panic and take Mike Brey.

proximity to talent, AGAIN.
Click to expand...

Maryland undoubtedly is a top job but they seem to have $ issues there
 
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BballinsiderfromPitt said:
I have no idea what this means? Who said we can’t win here? If the Pitt job opened tomorrow, Ed Cooley wouldn’t come to Pitt for less than 10 million a year. Providence is a better basketball job. The proximity to the best prep schools, a rabid fan base and hoops being #1 make it inarguably a job that is much more set up to win.

Yes, we can pay more money. And that has been realized by two coaches so far looking for their final retirement paycheck and zero coaches since Ben Howland was hired as a stepping stone to get to their next big job.
Click to expand...
We’ll… I’m admittedly a bit defensive in regards to comments on the program. Criticize Capel and staff all you want. I don’t think the problem right now is the job. It’s the job that’s being done, if that makes sense. Talk about a rabid fan base. That was us. It will be again once we win. And while my opinion is surely influenced by the ‘glory days’, I still can’t get on board with the idea that Providence is a better Basketball job. I also admit that my opinion is colored by half empty Dunkin Donut Center games where Pitt wiped the floor with them.
 
Villanova and UConn are the 2 best jobs in the BE. You could make an argument for who is #3.
 
Eastern Eight said:
We’ll… I’m admittedly a bit defensive in regards to comments on the program. Criticize Capel and staff all you want. I don’t think the problem right now is the job. It’s the job that’s being done, if that makes sense. Talk about a rabid fan base. That was us. It will be again once we win. And while my opinion is surely influenced by the ‘glory days’, I still can’t get on board with the idea that Providence is a better Basketball job. I also admit that my opinion is colored by half empty Dunkin Donut Center games where Pitt wiped the floor with them.
Click to expand...

Providence is an elite job. Elite! Haven't you heard. Forget the fact they made 4 NCAA Tournaments in the 23 year period between early Barnes and early Cooley.
 
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TheSpecialSauce said:
Villanova and UConn are the 2 best jobs in the BE. You could make an argument for who is #3.
Click to expand...
I'd go:

1. Nova
2. UConn
3. Xavier
4. Marquette (rabid fanbase, great history)
5. Georgetown (gets lost a little in DC but the right coach can elevate them to almost blue blood status given their history, tradition, and location)
6. Creighton (maybe the best fanbase in college basketball)

7/8/9 - SHU/Butler/Providence - not sure who

10/11 - SJU/DePaul
 
Sean Miller Fan said:
I'd go:

1. Nova
2. UConn
3. Xavier
4. Marquette (rabid fanbase, great history)
5. Georgetown (gets lost a little in DC but the right coach can elevate them to almost blue blood status given their history, tradition, and location)
6. Creighton (maybe the best fanbase in college basketball)

7/8/9 - SHU/Butler/Providence - not sure who

10/11 - SJU/DePaul
Click to expand...
Hard to argue with this. It’s actually a damn nice conference. Everyone has some history.
 
Maryland is a fantastic job, one of the best in the game outside of the blue bloods. I think it’s a better job than Ohio State tbh, not sure if that’s what insider is suggesting. I think you could even make an argument that it’s better than Indiana in terms of “likelihood to win another national title.”

Just goes to show the difference between the conferences - I think you could make the argument that Maryland’s the best job in the big ten, but I don’t think it was in the top 3 in the ACC (maybe it was #3)
 
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