Ya - that good 'ole 20/20 hindsight thing.
Example of when I say HC is all that matters (analysis)
- Thread starter Sean Miller Fan
- Start date
Yes they have good coaches but I guess I’m just confused how you arbitrarily define who’s a guarantee and who’s not.
Musselman was hired from Nevada. Will Wade from VCU. Mike White from LA Tech….
According to you, doesn’t make all of those guys lottery tickets?
You can add Nate Oats to the SEC lottery ticket list as well. Buffalo to Bama.
Yep. But SMF is going to try and explain how those guys were guarantees becuase they fit some weird criteria he made up but if we hired a guy from one of the same conferences it would be a lottery ticket which we can’t afford to do….
White, I didn't like that hire and he's really just been ok. He gets to the tournament as low seeds all the time. I'd rank him below those other guys. He was a lottery ticket, that I would say hasn't worked out as well as Florida hoped.
Mussleman and Wade were guarantees from high majors.
Correct. Oats was a guarantee because although he was at a mid-major, he was basically in the Brad Stevens category of a cant miss type of guy.
His best player and the SEC preseason player of the year last year almost died on the court and he’s been to an elite 8. So he’s been further than Musselman Oats, or Wade lol
simplejack.gif
Ok. Then give out some current “guarantees” that aren’t Calipari or Pitino.
Musselman and Oats got to the SEC 5 minutes ago. White inherited a machine and has downgraded it.
Are you trying to say that if you win at Nevada, then that will translate to success in the SEC? Therefore Arkansas hiring Musselman wasn’t a lottery ticket, but a guarantee.
No. Who are the current guarantees who are currently high/mid major coaches?
Absolutely. Guys having extreme success at the high major level translate to P6
Interesting……Mark Fox fits this exact criteria and didn’t have nearly the same amount of success.
Medved
Few
Bennett
Penny * (bad coach but he recruits so well, you will make the NCAAT by accident. Would be good for a Pitt-like program but not a higher program)
Sampson
Greg Marshall (fired for being a dick)
I agree with a lot of what BBInsider offers up, but I’m not buying that Providence is some Taj Mahal job. If it’s such a great job why have their last 3 hires come from Fairfield, Drake and Iona and not high mid-major or P6 guys? Obviously, they nailed it with Ed Cooley so I guess they hit in their SMF lotto ticket.
He didn't even make the NIT his last 2 years at Nevada. Musselman made the Sweet 16 and knocked out in 1st Round as 7 seed in his last year.
Tim welch did a good job there. Gillen, Barnes did a good job there. With the amount of prep schools, the money they put it in, the fan base etc, every coach in the northeast wants that job.
Lol
Before White took over
NC
NC
NIT
NIT
R64
Elite 8
Elite 8
Elite 8
Final Four
Bad year
A machine
Insider, you’re way outside on this one. There is no metric-none-by which Maryland is a better hoops job than Michigan. Michigan can and will pay a coach as much as they want to. Their athletic budget is virtually unlimited. Michigan’s athletic budget is 3rd by revenue of all schools, Maryland is 45. Michigan basketball nets double the annual revenue that Maryland does. As for “proximity to talent”, I’d advise you to take a look at the bios of Michigan’s current roster, and compare it to Maryland. 3 5 star McDonalds AAs, 6 top 40 players, including 2 squarely within the Maryland footprint-Hunter Dickinson went to DeMatha. If you look at the last 30 years of recruiting class rankings, Michigan blows Maryland’s doors off. Historically, Michigan basketball blows Maryland’s doors off by any measure. In the past 10 years, Michigan basketball’s postseason achievements blow Maryland’s doors off. Michigan’s list of all-time great players blows Maryland’s doors off.
If all you’re saying Maryland is a basketball school while football is king at Michigan, that’s obviously true, Maryland has a historically irrelevant football program. That doesn’t make the Maryland basketball job better than the Michigan job. It isn’t, and never has been.
They could start by winning the B10 conference championship some time. Or maybe having a record better than .500 against any of the top half of B10 teams since joining the conference. Or maybe getting past the 2nd round of the NCAA tournament.
Since Maryland beat Indiana to win the NC in 2002, they have not even sniffed a FInal Four. The B10 has had 12 FF teams since then, and Michigan State alone has been there 5 times. The B10 has also had 6 national runner ups since then.
Not only is Maryland not the best job in the B10, it’s not even top 5.
Apparently you do too.
Providence is nobody’s destination job. Ed Cooley was born and raised in Providence and has never lived or coached outside of the northeast. Furthest he ever got from Providence was Boston. He wants to be on Providence because it’s home for him. Kind of like how Pat Fitzgerald has never left Northwestern despite having numerous opportunities over the years to move on up including to the NFL. Cooley’s a good coach but he’s just a hair over .500 in the BE since he’s been there.
Let’s ease up on this absurdity that Providence is a big time job.
And they all GTFO of there as quickly as they could. Because it’s a great job.
Florida had a losing record in Billy Donovan's last season.
Yeah, PC isn’t a better job than UConn or Georgetown. Cooley is an unbelievable coach and they’ve done a ton to upgrade their facilities/profile but UConn is a better job and, if Georgetown could get their act together, that isn’t far behind Nova/UConn. Again, no disrespect at all to Cooley/PC as it is light years ahead of where we are right now, but to put them ahead of some other schools in that league is a bit of living in the moment versus long term
UConn is a better job, I missed on that. I think them winning 4 titles under Calhoun (let’s be honest, Ollie’s was really Calhoun’s) also sways that.
But Providence is the 3rd most coveted job in the Big East by coaches. People talking about how they launched into even bigger jobs/more money from providence like that’s a bad thing! I wish Pitt was known for being so successful people were stealing our coaches!
Xavier was a great job when it fit the profile of the conference they were in. It’s a different job than when Mack left it. Same with Butler/Creighton. Georgetown you could argue is a better job because it has proximity to talent comparable to Providence, but the idea it has to be a Georgetown guy really limits some of the things you can do.
The proximity to the best prep schools, the history of launching guys into huge paydays, the ability to pay whatever now and the administration/fan base make it a top 3 job.
All of this stuff fluctuates. If they don’t keep on their facilities, they get new administration, the prep schools become more Midwestern with some of the pop up schools in Cincinnati and Indianapolis starting to get the best players, it can be swayed the other way.
I’m telling you as of right now, if the Georgetown, Butler, Providence, Creighton and Xavier jobs all opened at the same time, Providence would draw the best candidates.
Coaches think you can win and win big at Providence and that it’s a sleeping giant.
But Providence is the 3rd most coveted job in the Big East by coaches. People talking about how they launched into even bigger jobs/more money from providence like that’s a bad thing! I wish Pitt was known for being so successful people were stealing our coaches!
Xavier was a great job when it fit the profile of the conference they were in. It’s a different job than when Mack left it. Same with Butler/Creighton. Georgetown you could argue is a better job because it has proximity to talent comparable to Providence, but the idea it has to be a Georgetown guy really limits some of the things you can do.
The proximity to the best prep schools, the history of launching guys into huge paydays, the ability to pay whatever now and the administration/fan base make it a top 3 job.
All of this stuff fluctuates. If they don’t keep on their facilities, they get new administration, the prep schools become more Midwestern with some of the pop up schools in Cincinnati and Indianapolis starting to get the best players, it can be swayed the other way.
I’m telling you as of right now, if the Georgetown, Butler, Providence, Creighton and Xavier jobs all opened at the same time, Providence would draw the best candidates.
Coaches think you can win and win big at Providence and that it’s a sleeping giant.
Proximity to the NEPSAC and NYC/NJ definitely gives Providence an edge over the Midwest schools. Maybe I’m just old, but I’ll always be bullish on Georgetown. Great school, tons of tradition, right in the middle of a recruiting gold mine and, even 25 years later, being able to name drop Allen Iverson still has so much value.
I get the GTown love, but look at what a disaster Ewing has been. Yes they had the lucky BET run, but it’s been such a mess just because you HAVE to have a GTown guy. They need to go outside the family for the next hire or else it could be more of the same.
Tim Welsh took Providence to the NCAAs 3 times in 10 seasons. Gillen, one time in 4 seasons. I would not call those records all that successful.
For that matter, why are we fawning over Ed Cooley? He's having a great year this year, and I think he's a decent coach (one poster referred to him as an "unbelievable coach"--that's a bit overstated), but his body of work and .535 BE winning percentage at PC is not exactly putting him on the HOF track:
Providence Friars (Big East Conference) (2011–present) | |||||
| 2011–12 | Providence | 15–17 | 4–14 | 15th | |
| 2012–13 | Providence | 19–15 | 9–9 | T–9th | NIT Quarterfinal |
| 2013–14 | Providence | 23–12 | 10–8 | T–3rd | NCAA Division I Round of 64 |
| 2014–15 | Providence | 22–12 | 11–7 | 4th | NCAA Division I Round of 64 |
| 2015–16 | Providence | 24–11 | 10–8 | T–4th | NCAA Division I Round of 32 |
| 2016–17 | Providence | 20–13 | 10–8 | T–3rd | NCAA Division I First Four |
| 2017–18 | Providence | 21–14 | 10–8 | T–3rd | NCAA Division I Round of 64 |
| 2018–19 | Providence | 18–16 | 7–11 | T–8th | NIT First Round |
| 2019–20 | Providence | 19–12 | 12–6 | 4th | |
| 2020–21 | Providence | 13–13 | 9–10 | 6th | |
| 2021–22 | Providence | 24–4 | 14–3 |
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