Fleury to Calgary...

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You can think what you like good Dr. But just because you write long posts that ramble on and on doesn't mean you establish compelling thoughts and posts. Your points in this thread provide very little insight and don't establish you as a progressive hockey mind. You have absolutely no idea if the Pens have leverage in dealing MAF. And, you have no idea what the market value is for MAF. Your eye test on the situation is just the next opinion. How's that saying go? The good Dr's opinion is like an Ahole.......everyone has one. Ponder that as you try to establish incredible MAF value across Pantherlair.

Windows. You realize life (or sports, or more to the point, the NHL) is not played in a vacuum. That things change and evolve. There really was no real deal to be made, only 2 franchises really were in the market for a goalie, Toronto and Calgary. Toronto jumped on Andersson from Anaheim., gave up what would have been the Pens 1st pick and a 2nd.

Calgary, who know what they were willing to give up, but I suggest that Calgary probably thought they had the Pens over a barrel and therefore tried to under bid them. There was no rush to trade Marc Andre Fleury. We knew this as the playoffs ended. There was no "deadline". So you retain the asset, you have incredible depth going into next year at perhaps the most position, and you have the ability to monitor the league and again, have that asset to trade. Trust me, the Carey Price situation will make alot of teams reevaluate their goalie situations if a contender loses a goalie to injury for a prolonged time. There are also some teams who's goalie situations may change.

Here's another point, and I know Ripper and Swervin kept on referring to the Cap space Fleury would bring in a trade. OK. But who and how would you spend it? Have you seen the UFA list? It is HORRIBLE! Especially for defenseman. Really HORRIBLE! Mostly a bunch of 35+ players who are looking for too much term and salary.

Here's a link to the list. Any of you budding GM's, tell me who you would spend money on?

http://www.generalfanager.com/freeagents?expiryyear=2016&position=All&shoots=Both&team=all&UFA=1

Teams aren't letting their talents get to UFA anymore. Unless they want to. Aside from a few.

So yes, I understand the Cap situation, and what MAF's salary could do to it, but right now it is kind of a waste.

Secondly, and I am turning this into a Doc Von Y length response, but....the team in July doesn't mean it will be the team you have in March or the playoffs. There is alot of time, alot of moves. Again, it is why I am shaking my head at the absolution some of you have that "MARC ANDRE FLEURY HAS TO BE TRADED AND THIS IS AN EPIC FAILURE BY JIM RUTHERFORD!"

No, he doesn't have to be traded. At least not now. I like having him in the net, while you still are vetting Matt Murray and getting assured he is definitely the future. And again, the $6.2 million alotted to the goaltender position (MAF and MM's salaries combined) is bottom 10 in goaltending spending. That is a pretty damn good value.

So again, there is nothing to see here. We saw last year how different the team that hoisted the cup was from the team that started the season. So why all of the angst?

 

[Pitt4Life34]

This is exactly right!

What if someone bulls them over with an offer for Murray? What if they love this Swedish kid and decide Murray is overrated/expendable? I certainly don't feel that way but Rutherford and the rest of the brain trust just might. Who knows?

This could still go any number of ways. Don't get me wrong, I fully anticipate that they will trade Fleury at some point between now and March. However, I definitely would not have settled for the best offer we could get. That would've been stupid, IMO.

There is absolutely no urgency whatsoever to trade anyone. Anyone telling you otherwise is an imbecile who does not know what he is talking about.

Who said trade MAF as soon as the GM can? Or was the point trade MAF at some point because Murray is now officially the guy? And as one poster said BTW save almost $6 million in the process. Also, if there wasn't an expansion draft looming then urgency basically wouldn't be an issue. So to some urgency may represent pre draft. To others before season opens. To others March of 2017. To others there may be zero urgency to trade him cause haters may always hate a Stanley Cup winning Goaltender. Oh do you know for a fact MAF is happy or comfortable with the situation? Do you know if MAF nixed the Calgary talks? Do you absolutely know anything about what the Pens are thinking? MAFs true value? Or just speaking for the GM on a message board? I have like a dozen more questions about the MAF situation but you literally can't answer any of them because you're just a guy on a message board. Now if you happen to be Mark Madden please accept my apologies.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

It's definitely a good problem to have. I just don't think it is feasible to expect one of these two to accept a back up role.. I think that they (They being Flower) would say the right things and put on a good front but after a few months, it would just turn into a distraction. He probably sees himself as a top 10 goalie (as he should) and don't think you can expect a top 10 goalie to play backup... The only real option would be to send Murray back down to be starter in Scranton and that's asking a lot too..

Whether or not now is the best time to be a seller is up for debate..

Let's put it this way, they have to "accept" but you can still do almost a 50/50 split. I think you are being presumptive. Second, in a few months it may work itself out, again the roster that started last year is not the roster that finished. And finally, no it is not up for debate. It is obvious this is not the best time to be a seller, or they would have sold.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Who said trade MAF as soon as the GM can? Or was the point trade MAF at some point because Murray is now officially the guy? And as one poster said BTW save almost $6 million in the process. Also, if there wasn't an expansion draft looming then urgency basically wouldn't be an issue. So to some urgency may represent pre draft. To others before season opens. To others March of 2017. To others there may be zero urgency to trade him cause haters may always hate a Stanley Cup winning Goaltender. Oh do you know for a fact MAF is happy or comfortable with the situation? Do you know if MAF nixed the Calgary talks? Do you absolutely know anything about what the Pens are thinking? MAFs true value? Or just speaking for the GM on a message board? I have like a dozen more questions about the MAF situation but you literally can't answer any of them because you're just a guy on a message board. Now if you happen to be Mark Madden please accept my apologies.

Are you reading my posts or just arguing with Doc, cause I have explained alot of this.

I am the expert. Okay? Remember that.

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Windows. You realize life (or sports, or more to the point, the NHL) is not played in a vacuum. That things change and evolve. There really was no real deal to be made, only 2 franchises really were in the market for a goalie, Toronto and Calgary. Toronto jumped on Andersson from Anaheim., gave up what would have been the Pens 1st pick and a 2nd.

Calgary, who know what they were willing to give up, but I suggest that Calgary probably thought they had the Pens over a barrel and therefore tried to under bid them. There was no rush to trade Marc Andre Fleury. We knew this as the playoffs ended. There was no "deadline". So you retain the asset, you have incredible depth going into next year at perhaps the most position, and you have the ability to monitor the league and again, have that asset to trade. Trust me, the Carey Price situation will make alot of teams reevaluate their goalie situations if a contender loses a goalie to injury for a prolonged time. There are also some teams who's goalie situations may change.

Here's another point, and I know Ripper and Swervin kept on referring to the Cap space Fleury would bring in a trade. OK. But who and how would you spend it? Have you seen the UFA list? It is HORRIBLE! Especially for defenseman. Really HORRIBLE! Mostly a bunch of 35+ players who are looking for too much term and salary.

Here's a link to the list. Any of you budding GM's, tell me who you would spend money on?

http://www.generalfanager.com/freeagents?expiryyear=2016&position=All&shoots=Both&team=all&UFA=1

Teams aren't letting their talents get to UFA anymore. Unless they want to. Aside from a few.

So yes, I understand the Cap situation, and what MAF's salary could do to it, but right now it is kind of a waste.

Secondly, and I am turning this into a Doc Von Y length response, but....the team in July doesn't mean it will be the team you have in March or the playoffs. There is alot of time, alot of moves. Again, it is why I am shaking my head at the absolution some of you have that "MARC ANDRE FLEURY HAS TO BE TRADED AND THIS IS AN EPIC FAILURE BY JIM RUTHERFORD!"

No, he doesn't have to be traded. At least not now. I like having him in the net, while you still are vetting Matt Murray and getting assured he is definitely the future. And again, the $6.2 million alotted to the goaltender position (MAF and MM's salaries combined) is bottom 10 in goaltending spending. That is a pretty damn good value.

So again, there is nothing to see here. We saw last year how different the team that hoisted the cup was from the team that started the season. So why all of the angst?

Recruits I get all this. It's not incredibly hard to figure this situation out. When the 4-6 of us peel this over analyzed onion back it's super simple. No one has brought up anything earth shattering. MAF will not be the Penguins goalie at the start of 2018. There may be several reasons why but the main one is that the GM and Sullivan will decide MAF isn't the best goalie in the organization. I'm a moderate MAF supporter. I appreciate him as one of the top 15 guys but IMO not top 8 so I see him as replaceable. And guess what........I'm right. We replaced him with a minor league goalie and won the F'n Stanley Cup without him. So right now, this year, MAF is no longer a pillar for this franchise. Why is that so difficult for some to deal with?

 

[Swervin27]

Let's put it this way, they have to "accept" but you can still do almost a 50/50 split. I think you are being presumptive. Second, in a few months it may work itself out, again the roster that started last year is not the roster that finished. And finally, no it is not up for debate. It is obvious this is not the best time to be a seller, or they would have sold.

a 50/50 platoon would be sweet, would absolutely love it. But, I cant imagine it is good for the team, the coach, or either player. As a fan, from an entertainment perspective, I'd love it.. Could you imagine how much fun the talk shows would be? Each goalie, getting a fair share of games? Head to head comparisons?

 

[Pitt4Life34]

Are you reading my posts or just arguing with Doc, cause I have explained alot of this.

I am the expert. Okay? Remember that.

You're one of my favs man!!! I'll remember going forward!!!

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I would agree with that. There are a lot of experts in this thread and I am definitely not among them.

I just know that Pittsburgh was not under any pressure whatsoever to deal away a valuable asset. I also know that all of the rationale presented in this thread for them to act against their long term interests has been flimsy at best.

I'm not mad at anyone for thinking otherwise and I'm not going to personally insult anyone who feels differently than I do.

I just know what I know and I know that contrary to the belief of many, given the context of what we know was offered, Pittsburgh did the right thing by standing pat and holding on to what promises to be at the very least a very valuable trade chip down the road.

I'm with Rivals and Southie on this one. I have no idea why this is even controversial? This was a good job by Calgary to get a good goaltender for a very reasonable price. However, it was also a good job by Pittsburgh to not give in to the buyer in what was very clearly a buyer's market.

Now it is possible that the market will not improve and that we will be forced to settle for a similar deal down the road to the one we just turned down this weekend. As I said earlier, I am not Nostradamus and I cannot predict the future.

However, it is highly unlikely that the deal we were offered this weekend is going to be substantially worse this time next year and it could improve. As such, it is well worth the gamble – and it is a gamble – to wait and see how this plays out.

Others obviously disagree with that opinion. That's fine too. I don't hate you for being wrong.

 

[Jpripper88]

He is also an asset, a chip that can be played in the right circumstance. My god, some patience please.

I agree he is an asset and I have no problem holding him, but IMO it certainly comes with performance risks as we deal with a goalie controversy and I think the return is likely to greatly diminish (even if the performance is solid) if we move into the season with him. Basically the only hope for the trade deadline is a significant G injury on a top flight contender to get a comparable return.

Oh, my apologies. I thought you meant Calgary was providing significant salary cap relief. You were simply advocating a salary dump and selling it by describing it as "significant salary cap relief."

Gotcha.

It still doesn't make any sense to dump such a valuable asset to clear salary cap room for second and third tier free agents but at least I am now clear on what you were advocating.

You wanted that second and likely third round draft choice for arguably the greatest goaltender in our franchise's history who was inarguably playing as well as he has ever played prior to being injured - posting career-bests in save percentage and goals-against and on track to set a new benchmark for wins in a season despite playing on a team that struggled mightily for the first three months.

In other words, as Pittsburgh's team play improved, especially down the stretch, do you think Fleury's numbers were likely to get worse or better? What would his worth be had be backstopped us to a second Stanley Cup? I firmly believe that would've happened had he stayed healthy because the Penguins were rolling by the spring and teams were not getting more than 15–17 shots per game on them – most of which were coming from the perimeter.

I just don't understand where people are coming from here? You are severely underrating this asset. That's the only explanation I can come up with that makes any sense.

The only argument for dumping Fleury now that does actually hold some water is that by keeping him you are inviting a goaltending controversy until one of the two is sent packing. That is absolutely true and that will be an issue. There is no denying that fact.

However, the fact that he is as good as people are insisting Murray is, and likely better – at least at this stage of their respective careers – is also conclusive proof that he is worth a lot more than a second and possibly third round draft choice. At least that's my view and it is obviously the view of the Pittsburgh Penguins as well.

Having the cap room available is just another benefit. It wouldn't have been a salary dump. It would have been getting assets and getting corollary benefits that could also help the team. Unfortunately G is a lot like QB where you can only play one each game and if you have a true controversy you probably hurt the impact and value of each. Now NHL is a lot easier to have a backup, who is important and helps you succeed, but will it be good for either of these guys to be only playing 40 games? I doubt it, but we will see. Obviously if we are the ones hit with a big injury at G, it might be a great hold of assets.

I think either way the Penguins should be very good again next year. Personally I would have rather received a solid package for MAF, clearly committed to Murray, and used the dollars saved to strengthen our D corps (trade or FA) and add another solid short term F to help cover for injuries.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Again, not to beat a deadhorse.....look at the impending UFA list. BLECH!!!

There will be a trade to bolster the D corps before the season starts.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

a 50/50 platoon would be sweet, would absolutely love it. But, I cant imagine it is good for the team, the coach, or either player. As a fan, from an entertainment perspective, I'd love it.. Could you imagine how much fun the talk shows would be? Each goalie, getting a fair share of games? Head to head comparisons?

Of course it is...
Better than wearing out over the course of a season.

And whoever is hot, come playoff time..you ride.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Yet more kindness I see. It's all good.

However, for the record, I only patronize those whose childish behavior demands it.

Thank you, have a nice day!

I just want to commend you for getting directly to the point with this post. ;-)

 

[restonpanther]

The thing that cracks me up are those that keep chirping about "Pens have a cap problem." Well lets look at the facts:

1. We just won the Stanley Cup!
2. We have 14/15 forwards back under contract with the one loss being a 39 year old center.
3. Our top five defensemen back under contract. Sure we need to find at least one more D for depth and/or to play the 5/6 role
4. We have two really good goal tenders back.
5. Once you subtract Dupuis's cap hit, we're actually about $2.3M under the cap according to capfriendly.com, and that's including Pulliot as the 6th Dmen.

So to recap, we have 22 of 23 players under contract (including Pulliot), need to find a bottom pairing Dman but are $2.3M under the cap so people conclude we have big cap problems.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

The thing that cracks me up are those that keep chirping about "Pens have a cap problem." Well lets look at the facts:

1. We just won the Stanley Cup!
2. We have 14/15 forwards back under contract with the one loss being a 39 year old center.
3. Our top five defensemen back under contract. Sure we need to find at least one more D for depth and/or to play the 5/6 role
4. We have two really good goal tenders back.
5. Once you subtract Dupuis's cap hit, we're actually about $2.3M under the cap according to capfriendly.com, and that's including Pulliot as the 6th Dmen.

So to recap, we have 22 of 23 players under contract (including Pulliot), need to find a bottom pairing Dman but are $2.3M under the cap so people conclude we have big cap problems.

Thank you.

 

[Jpripper88]

Again, not to beat a deadhorse.....look at the impending UFA list. BLECH!!!

There will be a trade to bolster the D corps before the season starts.

Wouldn't be surprised. That is what I would have focused on acquiring for Fluery. I think TJ Brodie would have been perfect. I don't trust Pouliot at all.

 

[Jpripper88]

The thing that cracks me up are those that keep chirping about "Pens have a cap problem." Well lets look at the facts:

1. We just won the Stanley Cup!
2. We have 14/15 forwards back under contract with the one loss being a 39 year old center.
3. Our top five defensemen back under contract. Sure we need to find at least one more D for depth and/or to play the 5/6 role
4. We have two really good goal tenders back.
5. Once you subtract Dupuis's cap hit, we're actually about $2.3M under the cap according to capfriendly.com, and that's including Pulliot as the 6th Dmen.

So to recap, we have 22 of 23 players under contract (including Pulliot), need to find a bottom pairing Dman but are $2.3M under the cap so people conclude we have big cap problems.

Fair and right in line with what has been said within this thread. The point for trading and saving Fleury's salary is a decent backup G could save us $3M and so you have $5M to get a very capable #5/6 D, a depth C/W, and another D, so you don't have to count on Pouliot. Looks like the last one may be covered by Tim Erixon. That is worrisome to me.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Wouldn't be surprised. That is what I would have focused on acquiring for Fluery. I think TJ Brodie would have been perfect. I don't trust Pouliot at all.

Where is the TJ Brodie talk coming from? I am not understanding that angle at all. That's really out of left field.

Calgary would not even part with a high-end minor-league prospect for Fleury. Why in the hell would they part with one of their top defensemen – who, BTW, is only 26 years-old?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to land him too. However, I'd also like Mark Giardano or Sam Bennett and that's not happening either.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

The thing that cracks me up are those that keep chirping about "Pens have a cap problem." Well lets look at the facts:

1. We just won the Stanley Cup!
2. We have 14/15 forwards back under contract with the one loss being a 39 year old center.
3. Our top five defensemen back under contract. Sure we need to find at least one more D for depth and/or to play the 5/6 role
4. We have two really good goal tenders back.
5. Once you subtract Dupuis's cap hit, we're actually about $2.3M under the cap according to capfriendly.com, and that's including Pulliot as the 6th Dmen.

So to recap, we have 22 of 23 players under contract (including Pulliot), need to find a bottom pairing Dman but are $2.3M under the cap so people conclude we have big cap problems.

Yes, exactly! I don't see the problem here at all.

At all.

It is manufactured hysteria and it doesn't make any sense. Pittsburgh did the smart thing this weekend. Why would anyone be upset with them over that?

They did the right thing!

The only people who should be upset with Jim Rutherford are fans of the Calgary Flames - who thought they were going to steal an elite goaltender for below market values but were rebuffed by the NHL's GM of the Year.

Why any Penguins fan would be upset with that turn of events is completely beyond me? I can only deduce that they absolutely hate attending parades in June.

 

[OriginalEther]

Here's another point, and I know Ripper and Swervin kept on referring to the Cap space Fleury would bring in a trade. OK. But who and how would you spend it? Have you seen the UFA list? It is HORRIBLE! Especially for defenseman. Really HORRIBLE! Mostly a bunch of 35+ players who are looking for too much term and salary.

Here's a link to the list. Any of you budding GM's, tell me who you would spend money on?

http://www.generalfanager.com/freeagents?expiryyear=2016&position=All&shoots=Both&team=all&UFA=1

Teams aren't letting their talents get to UFA anymore. Unless they want to. Aside from a few.

So yes, I understand the Cap situation, and what MAF's salary could do to it, but right now it is kind of a waste.

Secondly, and I am turning this into a Doc Von Y length response, but....the team in July doesn't mean it will be the team you have in March or the playoffs. There is alot of time, alot of moves. Again, it is why I am shaking my head at the absolution some of you have that "MARC ANDRE FLEURY HAS TO BE TRADED AND THIS IS AN EPIC FAILURE BY JIM RUTHERFORD!"

No, he doesn't have to be traded. At least not now. I like having him in the net, while you still are vetting Matt Murray and getting assured he is definitely the future. And again, the $6.2 million alotted to the goaltender position (MAF and MM's salaries combined) is bottom 10 in goaltending spending. That is a pretty damn good value.

So again, there is nothing to see here. We saw last year how different the team that hoisted the cup was from the team that started the season. So why all of the angst?

Well, there is a 13 page thread with a bunch of posters complaining that the Pirates won't go out and sign those types of players.....

 

[Jpripper88]

Where is the TJ Brodie talk coming from? I am not understanding that angle at all. That's really out of left field.

Calgary would not even part with a high-end minor-league prospect for Fleury. Why in the hell would they part with one of their top defensemen – who, BTW, is only 26 years-old?

Don't get me wrong, I'd like to land him too. However, I'd also like Mark Giardano or Sam Bennett and that's not happening either.

I think he is great, the salary is close, and I would have tried to include Pouliot going back their way. Moving one of their D for a G has been discussed a lot over the last year. Hamilton is untouchable, Giordano has a NTC and is not as desirable with being 32 and signed through 39, and Wideman only has a year, so Brodie has been the default talk as the guy they could ship out and get a top G without giving up #6.

Fleury and Pouliot for Brodie and one of their stalled F prospects would have been reasonable for both sides in the current market and with their roster/prospect (they have Kylington, Morrison, and Anderrson all in the wings for D) makeup. They would still have a very solid top 2 pairing and many options for their last 3 D, plus $19-20M in salary cap space. Honestly, even a deal of Fleury and Pouliot for Brodie and Jyrki would sound pretty good to me at this point. Still leaves you with $3M to find a backup G and a depth forward or keep a little cushion for in season moves.

Instead Calgary ended up shipping out decent picks for a decent goalie they will have to resign in a year. We obviously have no clue if Rutherford broached the subject of anything, but #6, which was obviously unreasonable when we knew for sure the expansion draft was happening.

 

[Jpripper88]

BTW, Jyrki is the kind of guy I would like to see Rutherford target via trade, anyway, because things may be tight on the blueline in Calgary. Right now they have a set top 4 and sounds like they have interest in bringing Nakladal back, plus all those young prospects, Smid, and the albatross of Derek Engelland. I'm guessing he could cost a 5th or 6th rounder? He is nothing more than a 6th D, but he is a RFA next year, so you can probably get him for 2 years at solid cost and cover yourself in case injury strikes or Pouliot just can't handle things.

 

[PhPanther1]

I personally don't see a 50/50 split of games this year. I think you'll see that the first half of the year, but one will have to and will be expected to separate themself. The other will be traded. Most people think I'm nuts, but please save this. Fleury will be the goalie that separates himself as the #1 and Matt Murray wil be traded.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I think part of the issue here is the way that most people way overvalue how much all but the top NHL draft picks are actually worth (actually I think there are lots of people that work in the NHL who do as well). A second round pick in the NHL draft is essentially a lottery ticket. For instance let's look at the recent history of the 35th pick in the draft, the one that Calgary was willing to trade to Pittsburgh and that St. Louis actually took.

Nobody taken with the 35th pick in the draft the last four years has played even one game in the NHL yet. Of course those guys still have some time, but none of them are jump off the page prospects. In 2011 Tomas Jurko was the 35th pick. He's played a total of 143 games in the NHL with 15 goals and 24 points. Guys like him are a dime a dozen. The guy taken in 2010 has never played in the NHL. In 2009 Kyle Clifford was picked 35th. He's played 412 NHL games with 31 goals and 41 assists. He's a left wing who has never scored more than 7 goals in any one season, and he's never had more than 9 assists in any one season. He is, at best, a bit player.

The 35th pick in 2008 was a guy who played 3 total games in the NHL without a point and is currently playing in the second division in Sweden. The 35th pick in 2007 also played 3 total games in the NHL, but he at least does have an assist to his name. 2006, nothing. To get to an actual good NHL player you have to go all the way back to 2005 when Marc-Edouard Vlasic was the 35th pick. He has had a long and productive career. 737 games, 47 goals, 179 assists, and pretty good play on the blue line. He's been a good player for the Sharks for a long time. Good pick.

2004 and 2003, nothing. 2002 is only special because the Pens picked 35th in 2002 and took the immortal Ondrej Nemec. Not only did Nemec never make the NHL, he was only good enough to play a handful of games for the WB-S Baby Pens before he went back to Europe. The 2001 35th pick was Mark Popovic, who managed 81 games, 2 goals and 5 assists over five seasons. A nothing.

So in the last 15 years of 35th draft picks you have one good (not great) player, one guy with a long career as a third or fourth line winger, one guy with a short career as third or fourth line winger, a guy who wasn't even that good, and two guys who played three games each and 9 guys who have never played in the NHL. THAT is what you get for the 35th pick in the NHL draft. MAF is worth way more than that. If the rumors are true and that was the best part of what Calgary was offering the proper response was not just to hang up the phone, it was to laugh hysterically while you were doing it.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I think he is great, the salary is close, and I would have tried to include Pouliot going back their way. Moving one of their D for a G has been discussed a lot over the last year. Hamilton is untouchable, Giordano has a NTC and is not as desirable with being 32 and signed through 39, and Wideman only has a year, so Brodie has been the default talk as the guy they could ship out and get a top G without giving up #6.

Fleury and Pouliot for Brodie and one of their stalled F prospects would have been reasonable for both sides in the current market and with their roster/prospect (they have Kylington, Morrison, and Anderrson all in the wings for D) makeup. They would still have a very solid top 2 pairing and many options for their last 3 D, plus $19-20M in salary cap space. Honestly, even a deal of Fleury and Pouliot for Brodie and Jyrki would sound pretty good to me at this point. Still leaves you with $3M to find a backup G and a depth forward or keep a little cushion for in season moves.

Instead Calgary ended up shipping out decent picks for a decent goalie they will have to resign in a year. We obviously have no clue if Rutherford broached the subject of anything, but #6, which was obviously unreasonable when we knew for sure the expansion draft was happening.

Brodie is a fine young D. I just had no idea why his name kept coming up? It just seems unrealistic to me.

I think Calgary got a better deal than the one you're proposing. They get to keep Brodie and they got Elliot for just a second round pick.

I don't think they're looking to shop Brodie. He led the team in TOI in the 2015 playoffs and he set personal records for points and assists in a season last year. That does not sound like a guy who is the odd man out. That sounds like a guy who is going to be a part of their nucleus going forward.

 

[Jpripper88]

Brodie is a fine young D. I just had no idea why his name kept coming up? It just seems unrealistic to me.

I think Calgary got a better deal than the one you're proposing. They get to keep Brodie and they got Elliot for just a second round pick.

I don't think they're looking to shop Brodie. He led the team in TOI in the 2015 playoffs and he set personal records for points and assists in a season last year. That does not sound like a guy who is the odd man out. That sounds like a guy who is going to be a part of their nucleus going forward.

I think he will be now that they are hitching their wagon to a guy like Elliott. Whether that is the smart decision vs. Fleury is another issue entirely. They have a chance to have fantastic future on the blueline, so they have plenty of options going forward. Really interested to see if they can get someone to take on Wideman for his final year. They don't really need the cap, so they probably don't eat much of the salary, which means he probably doesn't work in any way for the Pens, but he still can be solid, if paired with a good positional D next to him. Hopefully they don't find anything and the Pens can either get their hands on a guy like Jyrki or Nakladal for cheap as a #6/7 D.

 

[Jpripper88]

Interesting tidbit now that Matt Cullen may be up for a return. I know some people would rather just hand off to Sundqvist, but I would be very happy to have Cullen back at the same salary as last year. Makes things tight finding that #6/7 D, but I think really gives you cushion in case there is a longterm injury at C. I don't trust Kevin Porter or want Fehr there more than spot duty.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I think he will be now that they are hitching their wagon to a guy like Elliott. Whether that is the smart decision vs. Fleury is another issue entirely. They have a chance to have fantastic future on the blueline, so they have plenty of options going forward. Really interested to see if they can get someone to take on Wideman for his final year. They don't really need the cap, so they probably don't eat much of the salary, which means he probably doesn't work in any way for the Pens, but he still can be solid, if paired with a good positional D next to him. Hopefully they don't find anything and the Pens can either get their hands on a guy like Jyrki or Nakladal for cheap as a #6/7 D.

Oh, the Flames will definitely trade Wideman this year, there's no doubt about that. As you said, they have a lot of good young blueliners coming up or already on the team and other teams are always looking for a defenseman - especially at the trade deadline. He's a perfect candidate to be dealt at some point this season. Wideman is an excellent skater and a very experienced defender.

However, the truth is he's not a great player. He's a guy who is a solid second/third pairing guy but if you give him expanded role he's just not that good.

There is a reason why so many teams have allowed him to walk - he has played on five different teams in his 15-year career.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

Interesting tidbit now that Matt Cullen may be up for a return. I know some people would rather just hand off to Sundqvist, but I would be very happy to have Cullen back at the same salary as last year. Makes things tight finding that #6/7 D, but I think really gives you cushion in case there is a longterm injury at C. I don't trust Kevin Porter or want Fehr there more than spot duty.

I would take Cullen back in a heartbeat - at the same salary. He played a very big role in our success this season. He can also still skate – which means he can still play. He kills penalties, has great positional versatility, and he scores big goals. What's not to like? Also, he was clearly a team leader and would calm things down when they would get a little frazzled. I would definitely bring him back.

I think Porter is a perfect 13th forward. He is also great skater and a very good penalty killer – I think our best penalty killer. Porter is not going to score goals for you but you win because of guys like that.

If Cullen decides to retire, I am still very confident in our former group. Also, I think I trust Pouliot more than you do. I think the Penguins do too or they would not have allowed Schultz to walk away for nothing. Pouliot still has his struggles - he is poor down low - but he also does a lot of things very well. He passes the puck well - really out of his own end - and he can really skate fluidly.

I wish she was a step faster or more explosive but maybe he can develop in the off-season?

Again, I don't think we have a pressing salary cap issue and I think we'll have plenty of depth at forward, on defense, and in goal – or at least as much depth as just about everyone else.

I really think we're in good shape here – much better shape than many of our competitors and/or recent Stanley Cup winners.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

My biggest worry regarding the Penguins is just the schedule. The playoff grind is absolutely grueling, which is the biggest reason why no one has repeated as champion in this century and nearly two decades now.

There have been some truly excellent teams come along in that span and the only team that really come close to repeating was Detroit in 2009, before Pittsburgh upset them in seven games in the Stanley Cup Final.

That's pretty telling.

Complicating that issue is the fact that we are going to have the World Cup of Hockey this year. That is going to be physical, high stakes, high level ice hockey and some guys are going to get hurt and other guys are going to wear down as a result of it. I think Pittsburgh and San Jose stand to risk the most in that regard because they played so late into June.

Sullivan is going to have to manage the minutes of some of his best players as they trudge through the season. Also, as long as we are in a playoff position, I don't care where we end up in mid-March.

That is also why I am not disappointed that Letang is not on Team Canada and why I hope Kessel is again passed over for Team USA. Those guys absolutely belong on their respective national teams and it is as mystifying as it is ridiculous that they were each snubbed. However, selfishly speaking, I want them to rest their weary legs because we were going to need them to be as fresh as possible next spring.

 

[Jpripper88]

I would take Cullen back in a heartbeat - at the same salary. He played a very big role in our success this season. He can also still skate – which means he can still play. He kills penalties, has great positional versatility, and he scores big goals. What's not to like? Also, he was clearly a team leader and would calm things down when they would get a little frazzled. I would definitely bring him back.

I think Porter is a perfect 13th forward. He is also great skater and a very good penalty killer – I think our best penalty killer. Porter is not going to score goals for you but you win because of guys like that.

If Cullen decides to retire, I am still very confident in our former group. Also, I think I trust Pouliot more than you do. I think the Penguins do too or they would not have allowed Schultz to walk away for nothing. Pouliot still has his struggles - he is poor down low - but he also does a lot of things very well. He passes the puck well - really out of his own end - and he can really skate fluidly.

I wish she was a step faster or more explosive but maybe he can develop in the off-season?

Again, I don't think we have a pressing salary cap issue and I think we'll have plenty of depth at forward, on defense, and in goal – or at least as much depth as just about everyone else.

I really think we're in good shape here – much better shape than many of our competitors and/or recent Stanley Cup winners.

I definitely don't trust Pouliot as much as you, but a lot of that also has to do with me worrying if we suffer some injury at D then he is really #5 and I have no clue where #6 or #7 would come from at this point.

I have no issue with Porter, but not sure I want to have to trust both Porter and Sundqvist to play pretty significant roles. We shall see what happens with Cullen.

No matter what, the Pens should be really good and have a shot at defending the Cup, even though that will be devilishly hard.

 

[Jpripper88]

Complicating that issue is the fact that we are going to have the World Cup of Hockey this year. That is going to be physical, high stakes, high level ice hockey and some guys are going to get hurt and other guys are going to wear down as a result of it. I think Pittsburgh and San Jose stand to risk the most in that regard because they played so late into June.

Sullivan is going to have to manage the minutes of some of his best players as they trudge through the season. Also, as long as we are in a playoff position, I don't care where we end up in mid-March.

That is also why I am not disappointed that Letang is not on Team Canada and why I hope Kessel is again passed over for Team USA. Those guys absolutely belong on their respective national teams and it is as mystifying as it is ridiculous that they were each snubbed. However, selfishly speaking, I want them to rest their weary legs because we were going to need them to be as fresh as possible next spring.

I want as few of our players as possible on those teams. Beyond happy they got snubbed. They don't get the extra wear AND hopefully have a bone to pick with the selection committees they want to show were wrong.

 

[pittdan77]

Teams get more desperate as the season approaches. Not like the NFL where teams try to get a QB in early to learn the playbook. If a goalie goes down in the preseason, MAF's value goes way up.

 

[Jpripper88]

Looks like they are bringing back Schultz at $1.4M. Pretty solid value for him, but not sure how the math will work with the whole roster. Have them at somewhere between $300k-1M below the salary cap. Should be interesting to see if they add another C/F like Cullen or just move forward with the kids. Obviously could look to trade Kunitz or Fehr, too.

 

[Dr. von Yinzer]

I think this is a very good signing.

We needed another right-handed defenseman and I think we all learned last spring that Schultz fits in with exactly with how we want to play. He skates and moves the puck well.

Also, I am excited to see what he might be able to do with another year of learning under Sergei Gonchar - who I think flew under the radar for the job he did last year with that whole D corps.

After being traded to Pittsburgh, Schultz was on pace for 36 points last year – a career high. I think he can easily top 40 points this season as he masters the system and earns more trust from the coaches – especially on special teams.

Schultz is still just a depth D (5/6) and he definitely struggles in his own end. However, this alleviates the need to play Pouliot if he is still not ready and it provides us with some insurance should a D go down – and we know full well going in that there will be some injuries to that unit as the season goes on.

It may cost us Matt Cullen, who definitely played well for us last year and who I would like to retain. However, if our only loss from a Stanley Cup championship team is our fourth line center, that's pretty darn good.

 

[PhPanther1]

I don't think Schultz is that good, but what the hell can you expect to sign for 1.4 that is a right handed shot? At least you have a PP guy in case Letang goes down.

 

[ThePanthers]

Sundvist is more than ready to take over for Cullen IMO.

 

[QuitCallingMeWanny]

If Cullen wants two years as reported then I say thanks for everything you've done and move on to Oskar Sundqvist

 

[Jpripper88]

If Cullen wants two years as reported then I say thanks for everything you've done and move on to Oskar Sundqvist

I haven't seen that. Who reported it? I would agree it wouldn't make sense on a two year deal.