For only $869K, you can live on Mexican War Streets
- Thread starter Sean Miller Fan
- Start date
Couple things.
The primary reason for inflation is too much available money to spend. And why is there too much money to spend? It started with irresponsible tax cuts and covid checks to everyone (under both administrations). Now unemployment is at historic lows. The Dow is near historic highs. But, yea, the economy is not good according to you. Many metrics are hitting historic highs. Flights, concerts, etc. But the economy is in bad shape according to you. Its not. Could there be a recession at some point in the future? Sure. Its a normal part of the cycle but right now its very strong.
As for the Pittsburgh housing bubble, that 800K suburban house, how much will that cost in 5 years? 500K? I'd like an answer. There is no Pgh housing bubble. Pgh is immune. These prices are the prices and they arent going down by any great measure
Again, the affordability issue is ONLY in the suburbs and city. There is plenty of affordable housing if you go out further but people dont want to live in those places. They want Wexford, USC, Pine, Peters, etc to be affordable but it just isnt. Its entitlement.
Look at this house in Uniontown. Very nice house and lot. 415K. Might be able to get it for 375 or 350 eventually. This would be 700K in the South Hills or North Hills. If yoi want a nice house, nice yard but you cant spend 700K, then you have options. Buy in Uniontown. You are working remote or 1 day in the office anyway. People will say "but the schools." Ok, well, send them to private. You cant have it all. You cant get a great house in a great school district for 300K or 400K anymore. Those days are over. Either get a small house in USC or a condo for 400K or this house in Uniontown for the same price.
110 Mae Ln S, Uniontown, PA 15401 | Zillow
110 Mae Ln S, Uniontown PA, is a Single Family home that was built in 2005.It contains 3 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms.This home last sold for $385,000 in November 2023. The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $931/mo, which has increased by $21/mo in the last 30 days.
www.zillow.com
yeah but the catch is, you have to live in uniontown. corrupt, inept police dept, beyond horrible school district, incredibly high crime rates and well, it's uniontown.Again, the affordability issue is ONLY in the suburbs and city. There is plenty of affordable housing if you go out further but people dont want to live in those places. They want Wexford, USC, Pine, Peters, etc to be affordable but it just isnt. Its entitlement.
Look at this house in Uniontown. Very nice house and lot. 415K. Might be able to get it for 375 or 350 eventually. This would be 700K in the South Hills or North Hills. If yoi want a nice house, nice yard but you cant spend 700K, then you have options. Buy in Uniontown. You are working remote or 1 day in the office anyway. People will say "but the schools." Ok, well, send them to private. You cant have it all. You cant get a great house in a great school district for 300K or 400K anymore. Those days are over. Either get a small house in USC or a condo for 400K or this house in Uniontown for the same price.
110 Mae Ln S, Uniontown, PA 15401 | Zillow
110 Mae Ln S, Uniontown PA, is a Single Family home that was built in 2005.It contains 3 bedrooms and 4 bathrooms.This home last sold for $385,000 in November 2023. The Rent Zestimate for this Single Family is $931/mo, which has increased by $21/mo in the last 30 days.
Right. But there is plenty of affordable housing all over the place so I HATE when I hear people complaining about that. They should be saying like "There is a housing affordability problem in nice suburbs in the US." So dont live in a nice suburb then. Live in Greensburg or the A-K Valley or the Mon Valley or Fayette County. This is a totally fake "problem" and speaks to American entitlement. I dont feel sorry for anyone who cant afford to live in a nice NH or SH suburb. There are plenty of other places to live cheaply or plenty of small houses in those areas for the cost of big houses in the boonies.
How much if this is what people think they need for it to be a “great house.”
Read a great article in the Chicago Tribune last summer about how families are getting smaller and houses are getting bigger.
My wife and I bought a house for under $400K in a great Chicago suburb. Three bed, two bath. Pretty close to needing no updates or anything. Would I love another room? Sure. But I don’t need it. We’re only having one kid. So it’s not like a 4th bedroom is a necessity. So I got a great house, just not a huge house. Nothing wrong with that.
Read a great article in the Chicago Tribune last summer about how families are getting smaller and houses are getting bigger.
My wife and I bought a house for under $400K in a great Chicago suburb. Three bed, two bath. Pretty close to needing no updates or anything. Would I love another room? Sure. But I don’t need it. We’re only having one kid. So it’s not like a 4th bedroom is a necessity. So I got a great house, just not a huge house. Nothing wrong with that.
I agree. I could hit the lottery for a billion and I’d still have a relatively modest house. At some point it becomes a di** swinging contest. You see some new developments and the next house has to outdo the last. Hard pass.
Yes. And there are plenty of 250K-300K houses in Pine, Peters, Wexford, etc. They are small. Built in the 50s, 60s, 70. Not in a ritzy subdivision. But are fine houses to raise a family in. Perfectly affordable.
Only five years ago those homes were going for probably $300-500k. As late as last year they were in the $600-800k range. Now the market is over $900k.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
The median household income in the Pittsburgh region is around $50k a year. Assume it's double and explain how a $250-$300k home is affordable, right now?
Again, I always have to explain things to you. Median household incomes are a terrible measure because that includes a whole lot of senior citizens and retirees and welfare recipients who are making next to nothing. The median household income in Wexford is $147K. In Pine, its 167K. In Peters, its 135K. Yet, somehow the going rate for a normal home is 600, 700, 800. These arent a husband making 80K and a wife making 50K. These are people making 300K, 400K, 500K household income. And then Shirley 1 mile away making 18K on Social Security living in the same house since 1962 brings down the average. That's how that works.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
So you're going to move the goal post and only consider the top 3-5% of the income earners to make your claims. Makes perfect sense.
No. I am saying that you cant use median household income. To live in a nice suburb you have to be:
- extremely wealthy to live in the multi-million dollar homes
- rich to live in the homes around $1 million
- upper middle class to live in the 600K-900K houses
- middle class to live in the 300K-600K houses
- lower middle class to live in the 150K-300K houses
No homes cheaper than that so you cannot be poor. You cant make 30K per year and live there. But you absolutely can be a husband making 40K, wife making 40K and get a crappy old house in a really nice suburb for 180K
pittdan77
Athletic Director
We were talking about the overall market. I wouldn't exactly call the Mexican War streets a "nice suburban" area.
Just to show how wrong you are, there isn't any way a family making $80k per year is buying a $180k home in the Pittsburgh area right now with an affordable payment without at least 25% down and nobody making that with a family has that kind of money to put down.
I didn't say they can live in a crappy house in Pine and have tons of money to live lavishly and save tons for retirement but if they want their kids to go to P-R, they can do it.
180K mortgage at 7.5% is 1250/month
80K/year income * 70% after taxes, insurance, etc is 4666/month.
Property taxes on a house like that (if in Butler or Wash Co) would be 3000-4000. Lets say 300/month.
So after the house is paid, they have $2000 to eat and live. Would this be easy? Absolutely not. It would be a struggle. But if they absolutely must live in a ritzy suburb, its a sacrifice they must make. Also, their mortgage payment will stay the same for 30 years while their salaries rise greatly. And if they refinance when the economy tanks (that everyone keeps saying will happen next week) and rates drop, they might be able to cut their payment in half.
Or they can get the same house in Greensburg, Mon Valley, etc for 80K
pittdan77
Athletic Director
LOL. A struggle? Now add the cost of luxuries like utilities, transportation, child care, food....
Yep. A struggle. But again, they can do it if they want. There is no law that requires everyone to live in a wealthy suburb. As I said, there are plenty of affordable houses all over where they can live easier.
Point is, there is NO affordable housing problem in the US. Those articles you read are click bait. There IS an affordable housing problem for wealthy suburbs and cities. You dont have to live there.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
If you believe that, you're not based in reality and probably not paying the bills.
If I believe what? Do you honestly think you cant get an affordable house in Clairton or Monessen or New Kensington or Greensburg or Fayette County? Houses are cheaper than cars there. People dont want to live there, I get it. But there is PLENTY of affordable housing. Cheap homes as far as the eye can see. But everyone is entitled. They want to live in Wexford or Pine and pay 300K for a McMansion like its 1995. It aint happening.
There is an affordable housing problem in cities and wealthy suburbs. We agree on that. Not everyone can live there. Heck, I cant afford to buy a similar size home in Malibu. Should I cry and complain that there is no affordable housing in Malibu? No. I choose to live somewhere cheaper.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Your assertion was that a $180k home was affordable on a combined income of $80k. You're just flat out wrong. Has nothing to do with entitlement. You're falling back on outrage because every argument has been wrong. When you start paying your own bills, you'll see.
Let me ask you this? Should a couple making a combined 80K live in Wexford, Pine, Peters, etc? Should living in a wealthy suburb be attainable for a lower middle class family? You seem to think that almost everyone should be able to afford to live there. Me and everyone else here agree that that is not a right people have and that there is plenty of affordable housing elsewhere.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Don't be purposely obtuse just to drag the thread out. Doesn't matter where that $180k house is, a family making $80k combined per year can't afford it.
guys, this is pretty easy to figure out. so a 180k mortgage will probably have about a 1k monthly payment roughly on a 30 year with say 5%. i am going to include escrow in here. probably closer to 1200 but lets just say 1k, they threw some money down..
couple makes 80k, gets 1500 pay checks weekly, before taxes. a 1/3rd of that goes to taxes and health insurance so you are at about 1k net. the rule of thumb is that you should be able to pay your rent/mortgage wiht one week's pay check..
so yeah, very rough estimate is that one or a couple making 80K sould be able to make a 180k mortgage quite easily.
now it's your turn to blast my math and how i took some liberties and assumptions here. i'lll admit, there may be some holes here in my scenario
You didnt answer.
And the 180K house is going to be 80K in Greensburg. Why cant they live there. Can they afford that?
pittdan77
Athletic Director
It's over $1200 a month without a down payment and escrow. Practically speaking, you'd have to make closer to $160k to be truly "easy".
I wouldn't say "quite easily" because there's vacations and kids sports equipment and other miscellaneous stuff but it comes down to how disciplined they are. If they want their kids going to Pine or Peters or whatever, they can do it. Maybe the kids cant play hockey. Maybe the kids cant play club soccer. Maybe they cant go to Disney. But they can do it. Or move to Charleroi and do all that stuff.
pittdan77
Athletic Director
Still pretty but you played a greatly waterdown version of that course. The orginal tall grass was a bear.
first time i played it or even heard of it but really liked it. i'll take your word for it being easier than before.
for the record, it was hard enough for me as is lol. playing south park here this afternoon, back to reality.
well that's why you dont go over 1 week of pay rule, so your other 3 weeks of pay handle all the other expenses..
disney? no one goes to disney anymore man.. except weirdo adults and foreigners
894 Venetia Rd, Venetia, PA 15367 | Zillow
894 Venetia Rd, Venetia PA, is a Single Family home that contains 928 sq ft and was built in 1908.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms.This home last sold for $100,000 in June 2022. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $137,800, which has increased by $5,013 in the last 30 days.The Rent...
www.zillow.com
100K and there's more. Piece of crap but how bad do you want your kids to go to Peters. Down the street in Ringgold, this is 30k
Correct. Not only was it a bear, it was closer to the fairways so there was less room to miss.
If they had left that as it was when it first opened to the public only good players would play there frequently. You’d get the curious who wanted to try it, but your typical weekend hack would have been in total misery trying to play that course the way it originally was.
venetia doesnt count as peters, just ask anyone from peters. i mean it technically does but not really894 Venetia Rd, Venetia, PA 15367 | Zillow
894 Venetia Rd, Venetia PA, is a Single Family home that contains 928 sq ft and was built in 1908.It contains 2 bedrooms and 2 bathrooms.This home last sold for $100,000 in June 2022. The Zestimate for this Single Family is $137,800, which has increased by $5,013 in the last 30 days.The Rent...
100K and there's more. Piece of crap but how bad do you want your kids to go to Peters. Down the street in Ringgold, this is 30k
King mentioned this above. The orginal course took average players so long to finish a round they needed to make it much easier. It's still one of my favorites.
Nicest public course within a hour of the city and I don’t think whatever is second is even close.
And it’s still plenty tough. But nothing compared to when it first opened. I’d guess for anyone who shoots a 100 you could add 15-20 easy playing the original if you count every stroke. Can probably still add at least 8 as it sits today.
You are mistaken my friend. Venetia is the "rich side" of Peters. McMurray also has big houses, million dollar homes, etc but its older so it has many more of those smaller 60s, 70s, 80s homes. The Venetia zip code is the 2nd wealthiest zip code in Western PA behind Shadyside. So....yea
