For only $869K, you can live on Mexican War Streets

[Sean Miller Fan]

venetia doesnt count as peters, just ask anyone from peters. i mean it technically does but not really

We were just talking about this. The new census data is out and Venetia is the wealthiest community in Western PA (and by a lot).....and you can still get crap homes for 120K-200K. People just want nicer homes. And I get that. But there's affordable housing all over the place. Everyone wants a mansion for 300K-400K. That aint happening. If you want that, move to Fayette County.

Harrison City being #3 surprises the crap out of me.

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/subscriber-only/2023/07/14/wealthiest-communities-zip-codes-in-pittsburgh-region.html

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Harrison City being #3 surprises the crap out of me.

Those numbers make literally no sense. Their per capita income is well below the other four places on the list. The average home values is much less. Their percentage of households with incomes above $200,00 is lower than the others. And their percentage of people with college degrees is much lower than the other four.

The only way those numbers work is if the average number of people working per household in Harrison City is much higher than it is in the other places. And why would that be?

 

[Burgh15]

We were just talking about this. The new census data is out and Venetia is the wealthiest community in Western PA (and by a lot).....and you can still get crap homes for 120K-200K. People just want nicer homes. And I get that. But there's affordable housing all over the place. Everyone wants a mansion for 300K-400K. That aint happening. If you want that, move to Fayette County.

Harrison City being #3 surprises the crap out of me.

https://www.bizjournals.com/pittsburgh/subscriber-only/2023/07/14/wealthiest-communities-zip-codes-in-pittsburgh-region.html

Particularly interesting seeing the % with a Bachelor's and graduate degrees.

 

[joeydavid]

Back to the original post...

That house remains unsold at $850k 140 days later. Frankly, it's been over-built and has a very niche design imo. I can't see it selling for anywhere close to the asking price.

https://redf.in/gTtAQa

If it was one of those 5000 sq/ft brownstones over there- it's a million dollar house easily.

The Mexican War Streets and Allegheny West have the best historic homes in Pittsburgh imo. They also are great neighborhoods with plenty to do within walking distance.

If you want look in some of the best houses in Pittsburgh- Allegheny West's Christmas tour is coming up and worth the time if you are into local architecture and history (or toy trains).

Home - Allegheny West

alleghenywest.org

 

[cruzer]

The real estate market is infinitely more complicated than that. There are a lot of speculative investments that are messing with the market. There are some areas where properties are sitting vacant, waiting for the right price.

It's not really all that complicated. It comes down to the ever popular supply and demand. Currently, supply is low and demand reasonably high. What do you think will happen to prices? Ultimately the market will find equilibrium. It always does.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Those numbers make literally no sense. Their per capita income is well below the other four places on the list. The average home values is much less. Their percentage of households with incomes above $200,00 is lower than the others. And their percentage of people with college degrees is much lower than the other four.

The only way those numbers work is if the average number of people working per household in Harrison City is much higher than it is in the other places. And why would that be?

Yea, definitely surprising but perhaps Harrison City doesnt have many:

a) old people who bring down per capita income since most are just on Social Security

b) apartments whose tenants bring it down

These are 2 reasons you wont see Shadyside near the top.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Back to the original post...

That house remains unsold at $850k 140 days later. Frankly, it's been over-built and has a very niche design. I can't see it selling for any close to the asking price.

https://redf.in/gTtAQa

If it was one of those 5000 sq/ft greystones over there- it's a million dollar house easily.

The Mexican War Streets and Allegheny West have the best historic homes in Pittsburgh imo. It's also great neighborhood with plenty to do within walking distance.

If you want look in some of the best houses in Pittsburgh- Allegheny West's Christmas tour is coming up and worth the time if you are into local architecture and history (or toy trains).

Home - Allegheny West

alleghenywest.org

Great neighborhood? I posted that because isnt that area by AGH not the best? I know as you move a little further to Manchester it gets bad.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I guess that depends on what you call affordable. With mortgage rates in the 8’s, young people are sprinting to rent. The Fed and high taxes have ended dreams of home ownership.

Those are tertiary issues.

You couldn't even begin to buy a house in the first place that you can't pay the taxes on.

The "market" drives all.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Great neighborhood? I posted that because isnt that area by AGH not the best? I know as you move a little further to Manchester it gets bad.

There are some extremely beautiful homes back there. All the brownstones are gorgeous. And very very progressive. You’d love it.

As far as safety…well it’s urban living. It’s fine there, kind of it’s own little world, but there are the normal risks. You have to go several blocks away to find trouble. That said trouble can easily find you.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

There are some extremely beautiful homes back there. All the brownstones are gorgeous. And very very progressive. You’d love it.

As far as safety…well it’s urban living. It’s fine there, kind of it’s own little world, but there are the normal risks. You have to go several blocks away to find trouble. That said trouble can easily find you.

Maybe I'm just off base here but I feel completely safe walking in Oakland, Shadyside, Squirrel Hill at night. Is that neighborhood similar?

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Those are tertiary issues.

You couldn't even begin to buy a house in the first place that you can't pay the taxes on.

The "market" drives all.

I feel that county and school taxes should be based on income and not property. My mom paying the local school district based on the value of a house she bought much cheaper decades ago is really kind of a silly policy.

 

[Pitt1975]

They had grand plans for Totteridge but when that was being developed the golf bubble at the time started to burst. It came to a pretty abrupt halt.

That course was originally private but wasn't for long. And since then a few private courses went public and one (Churchill) is gone altogether.

There’s another place up that way whose name escapes me that was halted after 9 holes.
[/QUOTE
Blackthorne? They added a couple new holes. There is a fight between the new owners and the Twp about building a new pro shop on site.
They have built a ton on new properties there. Course was shut down, but maintained.

 

[Jeffburgh]

I feel that county and school taxes should be based on income and not property. My mom paying the local school district based on the value of a house she bought much cheaper decades ago is really kind of a silly policy.

Property taxes for schools and county government is certainly less than ideal.

But, in the state this country currently is in, I am one million percent certain that the massive reform needed to do something different that it will end up with the average joe carrying an even higher burden.

The last thing we should want is Harrisburg farting around with this.

 

[Pitt1975]

there is a ton of less expensive land all over the area and not far from pittsburgh. i am from south hills but golfed a beautiful course out in greensburg called totter ridge. dont get out to the hempfield/greensburg area very often but on the drive out, took the back roads (dont ask why) and just couldnt get over how much land there was and we were only 20-30 minutes outside of the city. and i know westmoreland county real estate is not expensive..

the western pa housing market is pretty reasonable. and you dont have to move that far out in the sticks to get it. to each his own but i cant understand for the life of me why anyone over the age of 25 wants to live in the city. but again, to each his own i guess.

Totterridge was a hundred guys putting in $150k each. (Appx). To start a premium club in the country with easy city access.
A local guy did well with a new sprinkler patent, and bought the farm it was built on.
Was supposed to have homes and an exquisite clubhouse.
Well after 20 years the homes are catching on, but the clubhouse is still the manufactured one from the start.
Rocco Mediate was given a townhouse there to act as the local touring pro.
All this blew up. The cart paths are even paved.
When I left Greensburg in 2019. Seniors could golf on tuesdays for $35, and get a hot dog and pop at the turn.
Golf has gotten busy because of Covid, but I’m sure it’s a ver affordable round of golf, on a pst premium location.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Property taxes for schools and county government is certainly less than ideal.

But, in the state this country currently is in, I am one million percent certain that the massive reform needed to do something different that it will end up with the average joe carrying an even higher burden.

The last thing we should want is Harrisburg farting around with this.

And now that money is being double taxed. You used to be able to write off taxes paid to state and local governments on your federal tax return but can no longer do so. Any income that you have to spend on local taxes, the federal government shouldn't have the right to tax that income since you already paid it out locally.

 

[Fk_Pitt]

Maybe I'm just off base here but I feel completely safe walking in Oakland, Shadyside, Squirrel Hill at night. Is that neighborhood similar?

I think it is. Like I said, it feels isolated. The market wouldn’t bear those prices for a neighborhood that wasn’t fairly safe. But I don’t go there often. The most threatening thing is the occasional placards in the windows supporting Hamas.

 

[Jeffburgh]

And now that money is being double taxed. You used to be able to write off taxes paid to state and local governments on your federal tax return but can no longer do so. Any income that you have to spend on local taxes, the federal government shouldn't have the right to tax that income since you already paid it out locally.

Right ...

 

[KennyTheKangaroo]

And now that money is being double taxed. You used to be able to write off taxes paid to state and local governments on your federal tax return but can no longer do so. Any income that you have to spend on local taxes, the federal government shouldn't have the right to tax that income since you already paid it out locally.

It’s too early in the morning to argue with you, especially in this thread, in which you have many L’s, but this is an idiotic take.

 

[mike412]

Again back to the original post, back in the late 70s or early 80s, Pittsburgh held a lottery to sell some of the Mexican War street houses, ownership of which had reverted to the City for non-payment of real estate taxes, abandonment, whatever. The participants were limited to people of a certain relatively low income level.

My youngest brother was awarded one of them. I think he paid $50 or $500, some ridiculous figure like that. At the time he was working for MABRO, a home improvement company. A couple of their veterans came out and concluded the cost of rehabbing it would far outweigh the potential return. He had sought one of the houses believing that the area would turn into the next Shadyside. But, the rennovation costs were prohibitive. So, he just let it lapse. Quite a few people did rennovate the homes they won and the area has improved. But, the new Shadyside it isn’t.

I’m not familiar enough with Pittsburgh and it’s housing stock to render an enlightened opinion, but I always thought streets in the East End, like N. Negley Ave. heading toward the zoo, would have been good investments. The houses reminded me a lot of the older homes in Squirrel Hill. Back then, a lot of them were being converted into apartment buildings, which I thought was a waste. Converting them into duplexes would be fine; or maybe even fourplexes. But, I remember going to a party at one rented by two girls from Duquesne which had been converted into 8 apartments, and the whole character of the house was completely ruined.

With the recent regeneration of East Liberty and Lawrenceville and the number of high tech firms locating into that area, I again think that N. Negley area should flourish if it isn’t already.

 

[joeydavid]

Great neighborhood? I posted that because isnt that area by AGH not the best? I know as you move a little further to Manchester it gets bad.

Maybe I'm just off base here but I feel completely safe walking in Oakland, Shadyside, Squirrel Hill at night. Is that neighborhood similar?

Most of Manchester is fine. It's getting tough to fine a historic house that hasn't been renovated already. The part near Allegheny West is very desirable now.

Home

mhspittsburgh.org

You can walk the area at night without any real concern. When you get back to Marshall-Shadeland the income levels are much lower and not much of a reason to be there unless you live there. California-Kilbride/Manchester (not sure which) has a fairly big new construction development there.

The whole western part of the Northside area is likely to further boom once the $650 mil Esplanade development is in.

Esplanade - Piatt Companies

The Esplanade is a mixed-use, sustainable development project that will reinvigorate nearly 15-acres of post-industrial sites in Pittsburgh’s North Side into

piatt.com

 

[joeydavid]

Again back to the original post, back in the late 70s or early 80s, Pittsburgh held a lottery to sell some of the Mexican War street houses, ownership of which had reverted to the City for non-payment of real estate taxes, abandonment, whatever. The participants were limited to people of a certain relatively low income level.

My youngest brother was awarded one of them. I think he paid $50 or $500, some ridiculous figure like that. At the time he was working for MABRO, a home improvement company. A couple of their veterans came out and concluded the cost of rehabbing it would far outweigh the potential return. He had sought one of the houses believing that the area would turn into the next Shadyside. But, the rennovation costs were prohibitive. So, he just let it lapse. Quite a few people did rennovate the homes they won and the area has improved. But, the new Shadyside it isn’t.

I’m not familiar enough with Pittsburgh and it’s housing stock to render an enlightened opinion, but I always thought streets in the East End, like N. Negley Ave. heading toward the zoo, would have been good investments. The houses reminded me a lot of the older homes in Squirrel Hill. Back then, a lot of them were being converted into apartment buildings, which I thought was a waste. Converting them into duplexes would be fine; or maybe even fourplexes. But, I remember going to a party at one rented by two girls from Duquesne which had been converted into 8 apartments, and the whole character of the house was completely ruined.

With the recent regeneration of East Liberty and Lawrenceville and the number of high tech firms locating into that area, I again think that N. Negley area should flourish if it isn’t already.

Early 80s was too early but 10 to 15 years ago was the time to buy in that area. It's a great neighborhood now....

40 years later lol.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

And now that money is being double taxed. You used to be able to write off taxes paid to state and local governments on your federal tax return but can no longer do so. Any income that you have to spend on local taxes, the federal government shouldn't have the right to tax that income since you already paid it out locally.

Why should the taxpayers from lower tax states have to pay more taxes to subsidize people from higher tax states?

 

[bayardstreet]

Can’t wait to sell my house in Wexford for $925,000 and downsize to a new smaller home in Butler county for only $800,000.

The only way I will be leaving my home is in a body bag.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Can’t wait to sell my house in Wexford for $925,000 and downsize to a new smaller home in Butler county for only $800,000.

The only way I will be leaving my home is in a body bag.

I’m in Butler County about a mile away from Allegheny County. The lower taxes and increased home value have made it very worthwhile.

 

[forbesfield]

Can’t wait to sell my house in Wexford for $925,000 and downsize to a new smaller home in Butler county for only $800,000.

The only way I will be leaving my home is in a body bag.

It is crazy how expensive that the patio homes etc are in Butler County. Everybody I know who has moved up there into that situation has paid more for that house than their previous Allegheny County house. It's insane.

Everything that you save in taxes, you lose on the price of the house. It's not the good deal that these people think it is.

 

[joeydavid]

It is crazy how expensive that the patio homes etc are in Butler County. Everybody I know who has moved up there into that situation has paid more for that house than their previous Allegheny County house. It's insane.

Everything that you save in taxes, you lose on the price of the house. It's not the good deal that these people think it is.

And you are stuck living in Butler...

 

[bobfree]

No. I am saying that you cant use median household income. To live in a nice suburb you have to be:

- extremely wealthy to live in the multi-million dollar homes

- rich to live in the homes around $1 million

- upper middle class to live in the 600K-900K houses

- middle class to live in the 300K-600K houses

- lower middle class to live in the 150K-300K houses

No homes cheaper than that so you cannot be poor. You cant make 30K per year and live there. But you absolutely can be a husband making 40K, wife making 40K and get a crappy old house in a really nice suburb for 180K

Jesus are you silly. Middle class to live 300K-600k house? Lol

 

[larboski280]

And you are stuck living in Butler...

Mars and Valencia are beautiful, and Mars is a National Blue Ribbon School. So not all of Butler County is what you think.

 

[joeydavid]

Mars and Valencia are beautiful, and Mars is a National Blue Ribbon School. So not all of Butler County is what you think.

I'm familiar enough to know the Chop Shop is a solid place to eat and Mars' traffic is basically the same as downtown without... you know "the city". Lol.

 

[larboski280]

That’s downtown Butler brah

 

[forbesfield]

Downtown Butler is kind of cute in a mid-1950s way.

 

[mlvnsmly]

Mars and Valencia are beautiful, and Mars is a National Blue Ribbon School. So not all of Butler County is what you think.

I used to live in a more rural area with a very mediocre school district and they were named a Blue Ribbon School. We moved because the schools were not that good so I'd take that award with a grain of salt.

 

[forbesfield]

I used to live in a moral rural area with a very mediocre school district and they were named a Blue Ribbon School. We moved because the schools were not that good so I'd take that award with a grain of salt.

The whole Blue Ribbon thing is a scam. There's formulas to follow that if done properly, results in the victory. Blue Ribbon designation is great for property values, which is why township councils etc are thrilled to have the school district get it. It means nothing about what is actually going on in the school, regrettably. My kids went to schools with that designation, and they had obvious flaws.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Jesus are you silly. Middle class to live 300K-600k house? Lol

600 is a bit of a stretch but 300-400 absolutely. You do see middle class folks in the 600s in the better school districts who are house poor.

 

[bobfree]

600 is a bit of a stretch but 300-400 absolutely. You do see middle class folks in the 600s in the better school districts who are house poor.

Probably more like 250-350 which is big jump from where you started.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It is crazy how expensive that the patio homes etc are in Butler County. Everybody I know who has moved up there into that situation has paid more for that house than their previous Allegheny County house. It's insane.

Everything that you save in taxes, you lose on the price of the house. It's not the good deal that these people think it is.

Those patio homes are astronomical everywhere. You can "downsize" your house when you get older to move into one of those but you'll likely pay more than what your home is worth. Seems to be a huge demand for that type of living and those communities are sprouting up everywhere. I think the thought was that this area needed more of that type of affordable housing. But then they get built and these old people are fighting each other to pay 400-500 to live in a patio home. The housing demand is outrageous which in a way is good because it shows the economy is booming.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Probably more like 250-350 which is big jump from where you started.

You dont think a husband who is the manager at Eat N Park and a wife who is a teacher can afford a 400K-500K home?

 

[bobfree]

You dont think a husband who is the manager at Eat N Park and a wife who is a teacher can afford a 400K-500K home?

Do you understand what middle class is?

It's as high as $137,000 in your scenario the couple makes around $115,00

And it still would come down to

How long has the person been a teacher? How many kids do they have?
Do they have someone to help with child care or do they pay for it?

In a perfect scenario they might be able to. But it would depend on those questions and many others.

on the low end middle class is 68,000 and they most definitely can't afford that.

 

[mlvnsmly]

Those patio homes are astronomical everywhere. You can "downsize" your house when you get older to move into one of those but you'll likely pay more than what your home is worth. Seems to be a huge demand for that type of living and those communities are sprouting up everywhere. I think the thought was that this area needed more of that type of affordable housing. But then they get built and these old people are fighting each other to pay 400-500 to live in a patio home. The housing demand is outrageous which in a way is good because it shows the economy is booming.

It's probably more about being in a low maintenance community. I looked at a house in North strabane that was north of 700k in one of those communities. My wife put in an offer while ilI was travelling. When I got home to look at it, I looked around and ther le was no sign of kids anywhere. Luckily, another buyer came in with a cash offer and then seller accepted that. It was an older.couple of course. Those people already sold and left and it was only a year and a half ago

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

It's probably more about being in a low maintenance community. I looked at a house in North strabane that was north of 700k in one of those communities. My wife put in an offer while ilI was travelling. When I got home to look at it, I looked around and ther le was no sign of kids anywhere. Luckily, another buyer came in with a cash offer and then seller accepted that. It was an older.couple of course. Those people already sold and left and it was only a year and a half ago

That's part of it but you also have a high HOA. A lot of these people would be better off financially living in the house they bought in the 80s and hiring someone to cut the grass and shovel the snow because there's a huge premium to pay for this type of "downsizing." They are paying to downsize which doesnt seem to make sense.