Just me, but I feel no team should get in if they are below 500 in regular season conference games.
For the record...TCU
- Thread starter Saboteur
- Start date
Before Howland got to Northern Arizona they hadn’t won 20 games in a season since the year after WWII. After a couple rebuilding years they won 20+ three years in a row before he left for Pitt.
Dixon was part of that rebuild.
Ben left after what 4 years?
Compared to 13 years of sustained growth
Pretty certain that in all of the years that I have been tracking things that Temple and St John's are the worst teams to ever receive an at large birth. No one else on the bubble did themselves any favors this year on the weakest bubble ever but for NC State, TCU, Furman, etc to be left out when those two teams got at large bids is the committee literally just throwing darts.
I think Ben Howland did an excellent job. He brought a struggling program to a great place (it wasn't quite a dumpster fire -- but it was substandard -- a dumpster fire is what happened last year).
What makes me believe that Dixon was the best coach ever at Pitt is that he took what Howland did to a greater place (two #1 seeds). Additionally, while Howland "rebuilt the program" once, Dixon continued to rebuild many times over. Perhaps the most impressive rebuild was after the 2009 season, losing four starters and following up in 2010 with a #3 seed, and a #1 seed the following year.
Yes that was a hell of a job at NAU. All he does is win everywhere he goes. It’s one thing to take over and continue a program that is doing well but he has taken over programs that were dumps in NAU, Pitt & MSU and turned them into winners. Ben has to be one of the few coaches that could take over any program in any conference and turn them into a winner. Besides UCLA he has taken over programs that not many coaches desired to coach at when the jobs happened to be open.
While I get where you are coming from, I fear using this criteria will assure that some truly lesser mid majors will get in.
I honestly think the problem is the 68 is too many, but that's not going to change either.
You should post and hang out on the TCU board. You are the most interested in the debate. Every thread, every time.
We'll never get back to where Jamie had us, never..... waaah, waah, waaaah.
WHY is this being brought up again...
Also, for the record the conversation is 100% civil accept for a couple of the absurd Dixon haters.
Also, for the record the conversation is 100% civil accept for a couple of the absurd Dixon haters.
When Dixon left, I do know I would have taken Howland back in an instant. It was mentioned, but I doubt it was seriously pursued. There were many Pitt fans who wouldn't agree though, because of how he left us the first time.
One thing most will agree on is they are the 2 best coaches PITT BB has had. Many forget (not you) that Ben started coaching in the Field House having to go against all of those Big East giants. Jamie got to take over in the state of the art Pete coming off a 28-5 record (that’s a pretty damn good place for a new HC to start). Ben built the culture of success that was Pitt BB for many years. JD did an excellent job building upon that but it’s a lot more work and much harder to do what Ben did. As Ben had to build a foundation that was not there.
Agree 64 was/is fine. Lots of bad teams made the tournament this year.
All fair points. And there’s no doubt they are the two best. But Howland did leave partially because he didn’t think success was sustainable here while Dixon not only sustained, but improved.
Honestly, I would be OK with that. The David vs Goliath aspect make the games more interesting to me. If the game ends up being a blowout, I just change the channel.
So I assume if dixon makes the tourney at tcu next year, and continues to do so, youll be in agreement that he is doing a great job at TCU? They have an even worse history than Pitt did when Howland arrived
Wait so you mean to tell me , taking basement tcu to respectability in 3 years isnt the ground up? Wtf kindve statement is that lol. Jig as I may be, this is a dumb take. Every coach relies on assistants. He will make the tourney next year. And pitt probably wont...so we will still be waiting.
Jamie did inherit some talent there. Trent Johnson left some juniors that had started the previous 2 years plus that Euro big guy who was light years better than anyone Jamie brought in after Adams. Plus, the assistant coach brought Jaylen Fisher with him and he had a great freshman season. Jamie inherited more underclass talent than Stallings.
Really, you don’t think it being UCLA was a good 90% or more the reason why he left Pitt when he did?
Agree 100%. I don’t see a single team in that league that would strike fear into anyone in their region. I think Texas Tech is the best of a middling P5 bunch. Kansas is always a factor with their talent and coaching. The rest is meh. I am aware that Sagarain and Ken Pom have the B12 ranked as the best league top to bottom. I disagree with that, and apparently the selection committee did too.
I don’t share your optimism for the future of their program. I do think they’ll be in the hunt nearly every season, and for them that’s progress.
Just think you are way overestimating Jamie Dixon’s prowess at this point. In a 10 team league he is probably the 6th or 7th best coach. Probably behind:
Self
Huggins
Kruger
Beard
Not sure I’d take him over Smart or Weber either. It’s going to be tough for him to keep that program relevant, he needs really good assistants and it looks like he basically will have to rework his staff.
A big part of that is that their bottom stinks much less than the other conferences. Even Oklahoma St isn’t bereft of talent. Having only 10 teams certainly helps them in this regard.
Agree that none of them are a threat to win it all, I’ll be surprised if any of their entrants make the Final Four.
If turning over a group of players and replacing them with other capable players every couple of years is your definition of rebuilding, I guess every coach in the country does it every couple of years or so. Calipari and Coach K do it every year.
Jamie's last few years were not growth. When was the last time one of his teams made it past the first weekend of the tourney? Was it 10 years ago?
True. I guess coach K is going to have a major rebuilding job next year...haha. Ben did a true “rebuilding job”. It’s not putting down JD but he did not have to “rebuild” Pitt at all. Unless one considers taking over a 28-5 program at a state of the art Pete at the time “rebuilding”. Most coaches would love to sign up for a “rebuilding” job like that.
All college coaches have to deal with roster turn over. It’s not like only JD had to. People who consider that “rebuilding” must think Calipari is the best coach around.
And Wofford is a damned good team, better than at least 3 or 4 ACC teams, including Pitt. Wofford will surprise some people in the NCAAT.
Wofford has the best percentage shooter in NCAA history but he probably can't defend anyone so whoever he guards will automatically score 40
Not true at all. I've been down in Greenville, SC the past 4 weeks and I've been following Wofford, as time permits. They are a very good team and they are more than one guy who can shoot and do nothing else. Sure, they probably won't beat a UK but could. From what I saw, they could beat ND, Pitt, BC, WF and possibly a few others in the ACC. Just my opinion that some others share.
If the selection committee didn't think that the Big 12 wasn't at least one of the best conferences they wouldn't have put a team that finished 4 games under .500 in conference in the tournament and had another team that was 4 games under as one of the first 4 out.
Since they have the best shooter ever that ought to make them the tournament favorite and him the greatest player in basketball history by your "logic".
Sagarin's computer supports that--- St. John's #66 and Temple #68.
Team's in Sagarin's Top 68 that were Left Out:
Top 25 team Left Out--> NC State #25
Top 30-39 teams Left Out
Clemson #30
Indiana #35
Texas #36
Nebraska #37
TCU #39
Top 40 to top 68 teams Left Out
PSU #47
Creighton #48
Arkansas #53
Alabama #54
Xavier #57
Providence #58
Butler #59
Memphis #61
Miami (Fl) #62
WVU #63
Colorado #64
South Carolina #65
Fresno State #67
Teams Outside the top 68 that got in:
UC Irvine #84
Vermont #85
Yale #94
Northeastern #96
St. Louis #100
N. Kentucky #109
Libertyt #110
Old Dominion #111
Georgia St. #112
Montana #131
Colgate #137
Bradley #157
Abilene Christian #162
Gardner-Webb #178
Iona #188
N. Dakota St. #193
Farleigh Dickinson #217
Prarie View #232
N.C. Central; #296
Question: What is the lesson from this for P5 Coaches?
Answer: Play the weakest OOC schedule you can possibly schedule!
Yeah, when I saw St Johns in, I knew TCU was out. No truth to the rumors that champagne bottles were opened at my household
but I have no idea how or why the Johnnies were in.I am just glad Belmont got in. IMO, they middle of the P5 conferences, in many cases, leads to the same effect as those Citrus Bowl type of matchups on NYD. A whole lot of "meh".
Hey Jamie, schedule better, the committee is on to you.
I don't think his tenure was as polarizing as many of his detractors and supporters are.
It's funny when all of these basketball talkies wax rhapsodically on John Wooden and those great UCLA teams, they never mention the UCLA Recruiting "coordinator" Sam Gilbert and his role. Also this shows that the NCAA was a feckless organization way back then too.
How? TCU was perhaps the worst P5 level program of the last 50 years.
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