I've expressed my thoughts over and over again on this topic and won't give up because I know moving back to Oakland will eventually happen. Besides, nobody moves off campus to play football and its proven to be a failure at every school. Colorado State is the latest school to move to an on campus stadium this coming fall however I guess playing at the Super Bowl Champion Broncos stadium did nothing for them. U of South Florida is next. Sound familiar. When you hear Chris Peak (pro Heinz Field) come out on his podcast a few weeks ago and state that Heather Lyke's number one priority is selling out Heinz you know damn well that it's having an affect on landing multiple 4/5 star recruits per class. Yes, the recruiting numbers don't lie as those players want atmosphere which doesn't exist at Heinz outside of one game a year. We've also heard the excuse of win and they'll come. Well we beat PSU and the National Champs in Death Valley and how was the student response after we beat Clemson vs Duke. I won't bother and send the pix of the student section because they've expressed their displeasure with the bus situation and we've seen the mass exodus after Sweet Caroline over the past few years get worse and worse which is embarrassing. This wouldn't happen on campus because they would walk to the game and not have to wait on a line for an hour to get back to campus. Chris's site is based on recruiting news and he's not going to come out and admit it but we can certainly read through the lines. Just ask many of the recent 4/5 star players local W. PA players who chose PSU, ND, UM, etc over Pitt who are our top competitors for elite players. When I see many Pitt fans who are in favor of playing at Heinz over on campus (mainly Steeler fans) complain about the Pirates scheduling WVU vs PSU in the middle of baseball, I laugh. You get what you deserve. Nobody including a mickey mouse franchise like the Pirates should be controlling Pitt's scheduling. This isn't a top franchise like the Yankees, Red Sox, Dodgers, Giants, etc. Last I checked, PSU, OSU, UM, ND, etc. does what they want from a football scheduling point of view. All I care about is Pitt football. Not the Pirates, Steelers, etc. The Steelers relationship with Pitt means nothing otherwise some of those 4/5 star players would have signed with Pitt unless perhaps they grew up idolizing the Cleveland Browns. H2P!
For those that like Heinz over on campus-Don't complain about scheduling
- Thread starter Panther Al
- Start date
Simply put...agreed. They have the resources, they just need to make the (albeit massive) commitment to the on campus venue. It does't need to be massive, but a 50k stadium with great amenities and student access would be crucial to attendance and atmosphere.
It's more complicated than just getting an on-campus stadium. Pitt needs to find 20,000 more fans who will get off their couches and come to the home games, wherever they are.
My guess is that Pitt has plenty of fans, but most of them like the convenience of staying home and watching the games on TV...
Go Pitt.
My guess is that Pitt has plenty of fans, but most of them like the convenience of staying home and watching the games on TV...
Go Pitt.
Very few people prefer an off campus stadium to be on campus. What most Pitt fans do prefer is Heinz Field to Pitt Stadium where there is parking, nice seats, access to restrooms, access to food and drinks, and fairly easy ability to get to and from the stadium. Getting 12000 fans to the Pete for a Bball game is very tough. Getting 50000 fans to an Oakland stadium is plain rediculous.
I hate this argument. The only problem getting to the Pete is weekday games. Anyone complaining about getting to the Pete on a weekend is big baby. What the hell do you people want, to drive in an drive out with no traffic?
Anyone go to the Clemson game? A Virginia Tech game? Yeah, there would be traffic issues in Oakland for a football game. There's traffic issues at Heinz too. Big flippin deal.
Plenty of people drive into Oakland every single day already. It works fine.
Pitt would already have 20,000 more fans if they didn't constantly shoot themselves in the foot.
They aren't building a stadium in Oakland because the University just doesn't care enough about football. They pretend to care JUST ENOUGH to keep the base showing up and contributing.
And it is going to get worse under the new AD. Her press conference conference answers should tell everyone all they need to know.
Pitt would already have 20,000 more fans if they didn't constantly shoot themselves in the foot.
They aren't building a stadium in Oakland because the University just doesn't care enough about football. They pretend to care JUST ENOUGH to keep the base showing up and contributing.
And it is going to get worse under the new AD. Her press conference conference answers should tell everyone all they need to know.
You need land, lots of money, and access to major arteries for transportation purposes. I think some of you have never been to Oakland and clearly did not attend games in the 90's.
Could you pls publish a Clifts Notes version of this post ? Thanks!
140 urban, densely packed, street gridded acres in some of the priciest and most politically charged real estate in the state my friend. It ain't coming back to the Oakland campus. I recommend appreciating Heinz for the advantages it provides, not for what it doesn't, because we'll be playing and recruiting there for the long term foreseeable future.
Wannstedt didn't seem to have trouble signing top 25 classes while playing at Heinz. You also have extremely selective memory of student crowds at Pitt Stadium.
I hope to God she didn't say that.
Pitt
Cannot
Ever
Sell
Out
Heinz
Field
Unless
The
Other
Team
Brings
15K
Fans
I can't stand idiots like Pederson and Barnes who say their goal is to sell out Heinz Field. It cant be done. Its impossible for a school like Pitt in a town that has 3 wildly popular pro teams plus a smattering of PSU, WVU, OSU, and ND fans to sell 70K tickets to a UNC or GT game. It just cant happen.
Besides fundraising, Lyke's main job is to figure out a way to create a better game atmosphere for the 40K fans who will be there. And I've said the best way to do that is to close 1 of the upper deck sidelines and the upper deck endzone
I graduated from Pitt in '93 and I'm aware of the transportation challenges. They already have a spot for the stadium, it's called the Peterson Sports Complex. A stadium would fit there perfectly, almost like it was laid out that way. Baseball and softball get moved behind Cost. It will be old in 15-20 years anyway.
Money is the issue, and it doesn't seem like the University cares much about raising money for athletics.
another anonymous message board poster complaining about Heinz and thinking a stadium will one day rise like a phoenix in Oakland. A thought we have never seen or hear before on this board.
Its damn near impossible... it would be such a hassle i would probably stop going!
Season ticket holder since 1996.
uh, three years after it opened, mr positive.
Pre-season Top 10, sleeper-pick by a few to win NC, Larry Fitzgerald, ND and the Miami and VT dynasties at home......and we still would have been 11K short with today's expanded HF.
If Pitt becomes Alabama, maybe they can sell-out consistently, maybe....but I doubt it. Short of becoming Alabama, Pitt has got to figure out a way to make 40K look and sound good for 9-3 to 7-5 Pitt teams. It is unrealistic to think we can go 10-2 or better consistently.
So, if we don't become Alabama, what is the contingency plan.....because you're not getting more than 40-45K Pitt fans to show up for a "regular" Pitt game.
Yeah, I'm ok with Heinz. There are very few stadiums in college that are even close to Heinz Field. Most college stadiums are larger version of AA high school stadiums with bleachers and parking in grass lots. Easy to arrive via the Parkway or 28.
Would an on-campus stadium be more preferred? It depends. Traffic is terrible getting in and out of Oakland for any event. There would be a lot less tailgating lots/options in Oakland. Pretty much the only people that care about on-campus versus off-campus are Penn State fans.
For Pitt to build a stadium in Oakland, you are looking at around $400-$500 million easily between land acquisition and stadium costs. That actually might be an underestimate. The State nor the County is going to support financially a second stadium when we have one 5 mins away from campus by drive, so better find some donors willing to drop an 8 or 9 figure check dedicated only to athletics.
Would an on-campus stadium be more preferred? It depends. Traffic is terrible getting in and out of Oakland for any event. There would be a lot less tailgating lots/options in Oakland. Pretty much the only people that care about on-campus versus off-campus are Penn State fans.
For Pitt to build a stadium in Oakland, you are looking at around $400-$500 million easily between land acquisition and stadium costs. That actually might be an underestimate. The State nor the County is going to support financially a second stadium when we have one 5 mins away from campus by drive, so better find some donors willing to drop an 8 or 9 figure check dedicated only to athletics.
Every AD says 'sell out Heinz field' but 100 yrs of data says its too big so Lyke will also fail.
The size of it is more of a detriment than off campus.
Heinz really hasn't significantly affected attendance or recruiting. Not sure about revenue.
The size of it is more of a detriment than off campus.
Heinz really hasn't significantly affected attendance or recruiting. Not sure about revenue.
I probably would attend less often if the stadium was on campus. Lets just say that there is space somewhere to build the stadium itself, where are all the tailgating surface lots going to be? It would be extremely limited for tailgating and would be worse than the parking situation that everyone likes to complain about on the North Shore. Also getting in and out of Oakland on a game day would be a nightmare. Having had season tickets for basketball with around 10k people, it takes forever to get out and get on the Parkway. So on top of the stadium costs which Pitt would certainly need to ask the state to help fund, they would likely also need another billion or so for new road construction.
Also, the stadium would need to be at minimum the quality of Heinz Field....at minimum. Having a large double high school-like stadium that so many colleges have (such as Beaver Stadium for an example of just a crappy, extra large small double-a quality HS type stadium) would certainly not help getting more people to games. Not in a pro town where there are expected standards.
Also, the stadium would need to be at minimum the quality of Heinz Field....at minimum. Having a large double high school-like stadium that so many colleges have (such as Beaver Stadium for an example of just a crappy, extra large small double-a quality HS type stadium) would certainly not help getting more people to games. Not in a pro town where there are expected standards.
an on campus stadium would dissuade a lot of our elder fanbase but bring in a younger fanbase, the ones that fall into an age group that believes going to the north shore isn't all that groovy, an age group that doesn't need to be home within 25 minutes of the end of the game, an age group that doesn't consider whether or not the bathrooms have urinals or troughs as an issue or the idea of walking a little bit from your parked car to the game isn't the end of the world..
Overall, it would be trading the old for the new, a net gain over a period of time..
I'm early 30s, so other than maybe a few more students who pay $20 for season tickets it definitely isnt going to help.
I've been to the campus of Colorado State for a job fair. that is "hell and gone" from Denver.. If this is true, that's a crazy move. Money is one thing but they have more than enough room, you could build a small city in fort Collins. Town reminds me of the town in Red Dawn by the way..
we will agree to disagree.. even if you are right, there are a lot of benefits other than an attendance bump. But again, it's not gonna happen, way too many obstacles to overcome to make this happen. Pitt cant build a sidewalk in Oakland on land they own without going thru years of red tape, they sure as heck dont' have the power to get enough land in Oakland for a stadium..
I mean, what are the tangible benefits really that actually have true value? I know many of you get upset when PSU fans say "Pitt rents the Steelers stadium" (when in actuality, both are tenants, both had input into the designs, etc). But really at the end of the day, what are the benefits? Maybe a few more students at the game? Maybe. Payments are certainly going to cost more on the debt that what we pay annually for Heinz. Is that worth funding $500 million or so for 7 games a year and then sit idle? This isnt middle of nowhere podunk PA where you can buy a cow pasture for $20 per acre and erect some bleachers and concrete. A lot of the valuable space in Oakland also gets gobbled up typically above market prices. A good recent example of this is Pitt paying over $7 million for a two story building on Forbes that had Chipotle on the street level.
Short of a wide spread massive arson fire that takes out all the houses and people living in South Oakland, there will not be room for a stadium any place better than what we have at Heinz Field. And even if the massive fire takes out everything, we still have to purchase the property before we even start construction. We also would likely not be the only people looking to purchase swaths of that land with other businesses, the academic side, UPMC, real estate investors, Pitt housing, etc. I honestly think $500 million is a bare-minimum price Pitt would be looking at.
Short of a wide spread massive arson fire that takes out all the houses and people living in South Oakland, there will not be room for a stadium any place better than what we have at Heinz Field. And even if the massive fire takes out everything, we still have to purchase the property before we even start construction. We also would likely not be the only people looking to purchase swaths of that land with other businesses, the academic side, UPMC, real estate investors, Pitt housing, etc. I honestly think $500 million is a bare-minimum price Pitt would be looking at.
yes, it's an impossible feat for many reasons, any sane pitt fan will agree with you.. besides, any future open land in Oakland should go to another chain hotel, there aren't enough of them in the works, we need more..
I agree this is the biggest issue with Pitt sports and Pitt football will always be an afterthought and lag behind others because of the crappy optics of our attendance at Heinz Field. We are NOT selling out Heinz Field. We are NOT going to average over 60K at Heinz Field. We aren't. We never averaged 60K before, anywhere, on campus, off campus, national title years, whenever. Having that as a goal is like me listing a goal of being an NFL QB. It is not achievable.
I posted this last week in another thread. A perfect comparison. University of Minnesota, the ONLY Division 1 team in the state of Minnesota, the ONLY Division 1 team within 200 miles of its campus, and plays in a metro area much larger than Pittsburgh (3.5 Million people to 2.3 million people) shares a city with 3 Pro teams, including the NFL Vikings.
Minnesota for many years played in the Metrodome, sharing the field with the Vikings. It was an ugly dome behemoth of 66K capacity. In 2008, Minnesota built a beautiful, on campus stadium, that had a capacity of slightly over 50K. Here are the attendance figures for Minnesota over the last two decades:
I think what is really interesting is Minnesota. Up until 2008 they played in the 65K Metrodome, the NFL Vikings home.
1997 Avg 45K Record 3-9
1998 Avg 42K Record 5-6
1999 Avg 43K Record 8-4
2000 Avg 47K Record 6-6
2001 Avg 43K Record 4-7
2002 Avg 42K Record 8-5
2003 Avg 44K Record 10-3
2004 Avg 47K Record 7-5
2005 Avg 49K Record 7-5
2006 Avg 52K Record 6-7
2007 Avg 52K Record 1-11
2008 Avg 49K Record 7-6
Then they moved into their on campus TC Bank stadium 51K capacity.
2009 Avg 51K Record 6-7
2010 Avg 49.5K Record 3-9
2011 Avg 48K Record 3-9
2012 Avg 47K Record 6-7
2013 Avg 48K Record 8-5
2014 Avg 48K Record 8-5
2015 Avg 52K Record 6-7
2016 Avg 44K Record 9-4
So you can see, there is a consistent fanbase, moving into an on campus stadium didn't increase this fanbase, but it accommodated them to a more right sized stadium. 48K in a 51K stadium certainly looks better than 48K in a 65K stadium. The fanbase didn't increase, because the fanbase is what it is. It is a core of 45K, a good year maybe 50K, a bad year maybe 42K. But please read below. What Pitt is doing is banging their head against a very hard cement wall.
Think about the logic Pitt is trying to accomplish:
Pittsburgh area 2.3 million people. Minneapolis-St Paul 3.5 million people.
University of Pittsburgh has an enrollment of around 25K. University of Minnesota has an enrollment of 51K.
List of Division 1 schools within 200 miles of Minnesota's football stadium: ZERO.
List of Division 1 schools within 200 miles of Pitt's football stadium: WVU, PSU and tOSU. Plus the ND factor.
Influence of the Steelers vs Influence of the Vikings?
Also....Big 10 vs ACC, larger traveling crowds.
So....to sum this up, Minnesota, despite having twice the enrollment and therefore twice the alumni, in a area that has 1.2 more million people, being the only Division 1 school in the state, and they realize that 50K is about the max they are going to be able to draw on a consistent basis, but Pitt thinks it can somehow draw 65-68K to Heinz Field???? I am sorry. That is just asinine.
I posted this last week in another thread. A perfect comparison. University of Minnesota, the ONLY Division 1 team in the state of Minnesota, the ONLY Division 1 team within 200 miles of its campus, and plays in a metro area much larger than Pittsburgh (3.5 Million people to 2.3 million people) shares a city with 3 Pro teams, including the NFL Vikings.
Minnesota for many years played in the Metrodome, sharing the field with the Vikings. It was an ugly dome behemoth of 66K capacity. In 2008, Minnesota built a beautiful, on campus stadium, that had a capacity of slightly over 50K. Here are the attendance figures for Minnesota over the last two decades:
I think what is really interesting is Minnesota. Up until 2008 they played in the 65K Metrodome, the NFL Vikings home.
1997 Avg 45K Record 3-9
1998 Avg 42K Record 5-6
1999 Avg 43K Record 8-4
2000 Avg 47K Record 6-6
2001 Avg 43K Record 4-7
2002 Avg 42K Record 8-5
2003 Avg 44K Record 10-3
2004 Avg 47K Record 7-5
2005 Avg 49K Record 7-5
2006 Avg 52K Record 6-7
2007 Avg 52K Record 1-11
2008 Avg 49K Record 7-6
Then they moved into their on campus TC Bank stadium 51K capacity.
2009 Avg 51K Record 6-7
2010 Avg 49.5K Record 3-9
2011 Avg 48K Record 3-9
2012 Avg 47K Record 6-7
2013 Avg 48K Record 8-5
2014 Avg 48K Record 8-5
2015 Avg 52K Record 6-7
2016 Avg 44K Record 9-4
So you can see, there is a consistent fanbase, moving into an on campus stadium didn't increase this fanbase, but it accommodated them to a more right sized stadium. 48K in a 51K stadium certainly looks better than 48K in a 65K stadium. The fanbase didn't increase, because the fanbase is what it is. It is a core of 45K, a good year maybe 50K, a bad year maybe 42K. But please read below. What Pitt is doing is banging their head against a very hard cement wall.
Think about the logic Pitt is trying to accomplish:
Pittsburgh area 2.3 million people. Minneapolis-St Paul 3.5 million people.
University of Pittsburgh has an enrollment of around 25K. University of Minnesota has an enrollment of 51K.
List of Division 1 schools within 200 miles of Minnesota's football stadium: ZERO.
List of Division 1 schools within 200 miles of Pitt's football stadium: WVU, PSU and tOSU. Plus the ND factor.
Influence of the Steelers vs Influence of the Vikings?
Also....Big 10 vs ACC, larger traveling crowds.
So....to sum this up, Minnesota, despite having twice the enrollment and therefore twice the alumni, in a area that has 1.2 more million people, being the only Division 1 school in the state, and they realize that 50K is about the max they are going to be able to draw on a consistent basis, but Pitt thinks it can somehow draw 65-68K to Heinz Field???? I am sorry. That is just asinine.
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The shame is, now with all of the bars and restaurants on the North Shore (side whatever) it should be a cool place to go, where you can either tailgate or barhop. It just is that there aren't 60,000 Pitt fans to fill that yellow submarine of a stadium.
yeah, I work down here, plenty of places to grab a bite and a few cold ones. all the same damn types of bars, corporatey cookie cutter bars, carbon copies of the bar louie layout.. I haven't been to the Foundry yet, that looks good from it's website.. burgatory I ate at a few times, good food but not anything special to grab a beer at.. I got to check out Southern Tier brewing still, maybe one of these places could be my future pre game ritual..
I actually like the place over by PNC off of federal, beerheads I think it's called. I took the two little ones in there before a pitt game last year, it was an nooner so it was still mellow enough to take a 8 and 5 year old, drink a few beers out of a plastic cup while the kids eat cheese sticks and not be that terrible parent that takes his kids to bars..
What most Pitt fans do prefer is Heinz Field to Pitt Stadium...So you have run the numbers, eh? I do not recall being polled.
typical old lazy poster that values convenience over ambience.. annoys the heck out of me.. is it really that painful to wait a little bit in traffic? I hear these posters talk about how ridiculous it is. iv'e been to countless football and basketball games in Oakland, never once would I have described it as ridiculous. Maybe I have a bad memory. was it really that bad?
older fans just want to be home 20 minutes after the game, don't want to walk far. maybe i'll value the same when im older, time will tell. I just go into it knowing that waiting a bit to get onto the main road home will take a bit. I know, if I go to a game that takes 3 hours long, I wont be home in 3 hours and 20 minutes, it will be a 1/2 day commitment. I know that and so when I get home 4 hours later, im not really that mad.
Why is everyone in such a rush to go home? What is at home that is so great? If it's so great, then stay at home and watch it on tv. I get amazed at some pitt fans and how they describe the horror of traffic and not having options at the concession stand. if you are going to a football game to get good food, you are a clown and really have no idea of what good food is.. it's a hot dog under a heat lamp for Christs sake, it's nacho chips with processed cheese from a large can. that's what you are so worked up about?
Why would it bring in the younger fan base? I don't get that argument at all.
Maybe it would bring in a handful more students and by a handful I mean that literally.
An on campus stadium is not going to magically increase attendance. There is enough history/data proving that as nonsense.
I have season tickets today, I attend about 90% of the games. With an on campus stadium, I would certainly still get season tickets but I can tell you I would attend less games due to the hassle of getting into and out of Oakland. Many times I am running right from a Pitt game to my kids baseball game or basketball game, etc.. and don;t have time to sit in traffic after the game. Getting out of Heinz and on the Parkway in 10 minutes is great convenience.
