For those that like Heinz over on campus-Don't complain about scheduling

[upj87]

typical old lazy poster that values convenience over ambience.. annoys the heck out of me.. is it really that painful to wait a little bit in traffic? I hear these posters talk about how ridiculous it is. iv'e been to countless football and basketball games in Oakland, never once would I have described it as ridiculous. Maybe I have a bad memory. was it really that bad?

older fans just want to be home 20 minutes after the game, don't want to walk far. maybe i'll value the same when im older, time will tell. I just go into it knowing that waiting a bit to get onto the main road home will take a bit. I know, if I go to a game that takes 3 hours long, I wont be home in 3 hours and 20 minutes, it will be a 1/2 day commitment. I know that and so when I get home 4 hours later, im not really that mad.

Why is everyone in such a rush to go home? What is at home that is so great? If it's so great, then stay at home and watch it on tv. I get amazed at some pitt fans and how they describe the horror of traffic and not having options at the concession stand. if you are going to a football game to get good food, you are a clown.

yep, 6 days a year. Go get something to eat. Designate a driver and grab a couple beers for a few hours. Where the hell do you have to go, it is a football weekend. Help the locals in Oakland...traffic is nothing then. Somehow it worked for me in the 80's when I drove in...

 

[Swervin27]

yep, 6 days a yerar. Go get something to eat. Designate a drive and grab a couple beers for a few hours. Whee the hell do you have to go, it is a football weekend. Help the locals in Oakland...traffic is nothing then. Somehow it worked for me in the 80's when I drove in...

Dude, spot on. couldn't agree more.

 

[Swervin27]

Why would it bring in the younger fan base? I don't get that argument at all.

Maybe it would bring in a handful more students and by a handful I mean that literally.

An on campus stadium is not going to magically increase attendance. There is enough history/data proving that as nonsense.

I have season tickets today, I attend about 90% of the games. With an on campus stadium, I would certainly still get season tickets but I can tell you I would attend less games due to the hassle of getting into and out of Oakland. Many times I am running right from a Pitt game to my kids baseball game or basketball game, etc.. and don;t have time to sit in traffic after the game. Getting out of Heinz and on the Parkway in 10 minutes is great convenience.

I don't think it will be a dramatic increase, I just think it will be a much more enjoyable experience for most of us, the ones that don't have to be home 10 minutes after the game ends to take our kids to their basketball games..

you sound like a busy man, crazy how these pitt games are scheduled all to end 10 minutes before all of your kids sporting events.. if I were you, I'd watch it at home and save the aggravation. if I had 10 minutes to get home from the end of the pitt game to get my kids to practice/games, I'd stay home...

like I said, Heinz is definitely convenient, hence the love from the old and the lazy..

 

[pitt2533]

typical old lazy poster that values convenience over ambience.. annoys the heck out of me.. is it really that painful to wait a little bit in traffic? I hear these posters talk about how ridiculous it is. iv'e been to countless football and basketball games in Oakland, never once would I have described it as ridiculous. Maybe I have a bad memory. was it really that bad?

older fans just want to be home 20 minutes after the game, don't want to walk far. maybe i'll value the same when im older, time will tell. I just go into it knowing that waiting a bit to get onto the main road home will take a bit. I know, if I go to a game that takes 3 hours long, I wont be home in 3 hours and 20 minutes, it will be a 1/2 day commitment. I know that and so when I get home 4 hours later, im not really that mad.

Why is everyone in such a rush to go home? What is at home that is so great? If it's so great, then stay at home and watch it on tv. I get amazed at some pitt fans and how they describe the horror of traffic and not having options at the concession stand. if you are going to a football game to get good food, you are a clown and really have no idea of what good food is.. it's a hot dog under a heat lamp for Christs sake, it's nacho chips with processed cheese from a large can. that's what you are so worked up about?

I don't think it will be a dramatic increase, I just think it will be a much more enjoyable experience for most of us, the ones that don't have to be home 10 minutes after the game ends to take our kids to their basketball games..

you sound like a busy man, crazy how these pitt games are scheduled all to end 10 minutes before all of your kids sporting events.. if I were you, I'd watch it at home and save the aggravation. if I had 10 minutes to get home from the end of the pitt game to get my kids to practice/games, I'd stay home...

like I said, Heinz is definitely convenient, hence the love from the old and the lazy..

It is not 10 minutes to get home even from Heinz. But there are plenty of Saturday's where there is a noon Pitt game and my kids might have a 5PM baseball game or a 6 PM hoops game.

It is nice being able to do both. I am a fan of Pitt. I go to the games to watch Pitt, I don't get the angst over Heinz field being 3 miles off campus. Doesn't matter to me where they play for the most part because I am there to watch Pitt. Being on campus is meaningless to me considering Heinz is literally 3 miles from Campus. It is not like they are playing in Wheeling or Youngstown or something like that.

You sound like someone who has no other responsibilities and can make a full day out of it. Great for you, but for me being able to get to my other responsibilities instead of sitting in an hour of traffic is important to me.

 

[upj87]

It is not 10 minutes to get home even from Heinz. But there are plenty of Saturday's where there is a noon Pitt game and my kids might have a 5PM baseball game or a 6 PM hoops game.

It is nice being able to do both. I am a fan of Pitt. I go to the games to watch Pitt, I don't get the angst over Heinz field being 3 miles off campus. Doesn't matter to me where they play for the most part because I am there to watch Pitt. Being on campus is meaningless to me considering Heinz is literally 3 miles from Campus. It is not like they are playing in Wheeling or Youngstown or something like that.

You sound like someone who has no other responsibilities and can make a full day out of it. Great for you, but for me being able to get to my other responsibilities instead of sitting in an hour of traffic is important to me.

I find the travel restrictions less important than the fact that they play in a big bird yellow behemoth they cannot fill up to the point of continued embarassment. Pipe dream, I know, but I would much rather see them in a lean, mean 48,000 seat filled on campus stadium.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Again, you can find a million reasons why to or not to attend, the fact is, going to Pitt football games is likely a major priority for 25,000 people, maybe 4-5,000 students and another 10,000 go mostly when it is convenient. That's 40,000. Opponent quality and visitors (traveling fans) account for 10-20K more. That's it. You can maybe grow the first group from 25 to 30K. On campus would help increase students (maybe) but you cap that out anyways.

My point here, they aren't filling Heinz Field for anything other than PSU, maybe ND, WVU or maybe a Clemson.....

 

[daminals76]

The last game there had 60,000+ and it wasn't an issue.

Yes it was an issue... it was a HUGE issue.

 

[upj87]

Yes it was an issue... it was a HUGE issue.

how so?

 

[Swervin27]

It is not 10 minutes to get home even from Heinz. But there are plenty of Saturday's where there is a noon Pitt game and my kids might have a 5PM baseball game or a 6 PM hoops game.

It is nice being able to do both. I am a fan of Pitt. I go to the games to watch Pitt, I don't get the angst over Heinz field being 3 miles off campus. Doesn't matter to me where they play for the most part because I am there to watch Pitt. Being on campus is meaningless to me considering Heinz is literally 3 miles from Campus. It is not like they are playing in Wheeling or Youngstown or something like that.

You sound like someone who has no other responsibilities and can make a full day out of it. Great for you, but for me being able to get to my other responsibilities instead of sitting in an hour of traffic is important to me.

hence my whole point about this on campus attracting a younger fan base.. Pitt doesn't need to appease the soccer mom/dad who prioritizes how close the highway is to the stadium so they can get to their kids 4:30pm practice....

 

[ncyajleel]

Is that an option?

What the hell do you people want, to drive in an drive out with no traffic?

 

[ncyajleel]

Notre Dame and 11-1 Miami were at home, as were Va Tech. But I believe most came to see Fitz play.

You're right... that is odd...WVU and ND both at home??

 

[Jpripper88]

Pitt is never going to rival the top schools for game day experience. It will never even be close. Those schools have tradition, a student body who is cultivated to care about football, and (most importantly) have a campus that is set up to deliver a great game day experience.

However, those other schools also have fans who understand getting to and from the game isn't easy. But guess what? They don't care. Clemson, Alabama, Michigan, ND, etc. fans either stay overnight or late or they sit in traffic for hours to get home. That is just part of game day. It just doesn't mean enough to most Pitt fans.

 

[ThePanthers]

Look. I think the majority of people would love an on campus stadium that is 50-55K seats.

The reality though is that in Oakland, it would be extremely difficult and expensive, if not impossible right now or in the near future to build one.

I think the majority of fans realize this as well. It's a vocal minority that keeps posting on here that don't.

 

[Panthergrowl13]

I am not complaining about scheduling.

HAIL TO PITT!!!!

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Pitt is never going to rival the top schools for game day experience. It will never even be close. Those schools have tradition, a student body who is cultivated to care about football, and (most importantly) have a campus that is set up to deliver a great game day experience.

However, those other schools also have fans who understand getting to and from the game isn't easy. But guess what? They don't care. Clemson, Alabama, Michigan, ND, etc. fans either stay overnight or late or they sit in traffic for hours to get home. That is just part of game day. It just doesn't mean enough to most Pitt fans.

Most of those other schools also are state schools or icons who doesn't share a region or fanbase with an NFL team.

Again Rip, look at my post in regards to the University of Minnesota. Which nobody has commented on, I am not sure math maybe too much for most of you to understand.

They don't draw over 50K despite having double the enrollment of Pitt, a much bigger population center, the only football school in their state. Why should we expect Pitt to better? Pitt has much more in common with Minnesota than Alabama or Clemson or Ohio State.

 

[pitt2533]

hence my whole point about this on campus attracting a younger fan base.. Pitt doesn't need to appease the soccer mom/dad who prioritizes how close the highway is to the stadium so they can get to their kids 4:30pm practice....

Frankly that is dumb. I am 39, have 9 club seats, had season tickets since I was a student at Pitt, donate to Pitt and you want to push fans like me out to appease a so called younger crowd that you are making huge assumptions on that will all a sudden show up due to on campus stadium?

Respectfully we'll agree to disagree.

 

[Jpripper88]

Most of those other schools also are state schools or icons who doesn't share a region or fanbase with an NFL team.

Again Rip, look at my post in regards to the University of Minnesota. Which nobody has commented on, I am not sure math maybe too much for most of you to understand.

They don't draw over 50K despite having double the enrollment of Pitt, a much bigger population center, the only football school in their state. Why should we expect Pitt to better? Pitt has much more in common with Minnesota than Alabama or Clemson or Ohio State.

I skipped it originally and just posted my response to the OP. However, you are right. Pitt has challenges and cannot be a power or have a game day experience like some of those schools mentioned. That doesn't mean Pitt can't win and better the experience or at least make the attendance look better.

Hopefully Pitt starts with winning, first.

 

[upj87]

Frankly that is dumb. I am 39, have 9 club seats, had season tickets since I was a student at Pitt, donate to Pitt and you want to push fans like me out to appease a so called younger crowd that you are making huge assumptions on that will all a sudden show up due to on campus stadium?

Respectfully we'll agree to disagree.

not dumb, but in the order of "you cannot please everyone"..Sorry about the kids but last time I checked people have been having kids for at least the last 50 or 60 years and other universities with traffic and congestion problems get along fine. Ever been to Knoxville Tennessee? It is not a huge assumption to think that 48,000 people will fill a 48,000 seat on campus stadium as opposed to those same 48,000 in a stadium with 70,000 seats. While Pitt was never Alabama or Michigan back in the day in terms of game day experience, Oakland was a whole lot more entertaining than the North Side as far as pre and post game fun.....

 

[pittdan77]

The only "scheduling issues" is usually one Pirate game a year. I hate Heinz in general but nobody is going to take a stadium discussion seriously until you start winning and more than the same thirty or forty message board poster's talk about it.

On the flip side, congrats to Zeta for finding a way to start this thread, keep it rolling, and post his website.

 

[TFloss]

It's hilarious that there are people out there who think Pitt should spend 500M MINIMUM to build a stadium in Oakland that would be used 6-7 days a year.

Figure out ways to make Heinz Field better. That's the only solution that makes sense from a fiscal sense.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

Pitt is never going to rival the top schools for game day experience. It will never even be close. Those schools have tradition, a student body who is cultivated to care about football, and (most importantly) have a campus that is set up to deliver a great game day experience.

However, those other schools also have fans who understand getting to and from the game isn't easy. But guess what? They don't care. Clemson, Alabama, Michigan, ND, etc. fans either stay overnight or late or they sit in traffic for hours to get home. That is just part of game day. It just doesn't mean enough to most Pitt fans.

It doesn't mean enough to fans of nearly any team that consistently lose their biggest games (particularly those at home). And don't even win most of their "gimme" games convincingly.

After nearly 40 years the common expectation is either a disappointing loss in a game of significance or a dull uninspiring win (or heaven forbid a loss) against a junk opponent. In such a case, it's not unexpected that many fans weigh it against long drives, possibly sitting in choking traffic for hours, poor weather etc. And saying no thanks.

That's anywhere too, save maybe the dregs like West Virginia where's there ou'd absolutely nothing else to do.

Time and comfort are actually more important to most people than the money when talking entertainment options.

Big wins, championship contentions at times, and TCB convincingly over most others that you're supposed to, will build the kind of equity that fans need to invest the time it takes to dedicate to going to a game. Like they do for the other team that plays in that stadium.

 

[Jpripper88]

It doesn't mean enough to fans of nearly any team that consistently lose their biggest games (particularly those at home). And don't even win most of their "gimme" games convincingly.

After nearly 40 years the common expectation is either a disappointing loss in a game of significance or a dull uninspiring win (or heaven forbid a loss) against a junk opponent. In such a case, it's not unexpected that many fans weigh it against long drives, possibly sitting in choking traffic for hours, poor weather etc. And saying no thanks.

That's anywhere too, save maybe the dregs like West Virginia where's there ou'd absolutely nothing else to do.

Time and comfort are actually more important to most people than the money when talking entertainment options.

Big wins, championship contentions at times, and TCB convincingly over most others that you're supposed to, will build the kind of equity that fans need to invest the time it takes to dedicate to going to a game. Like they do for the other team that plays in that stadium.

I don't disagree with any of that. It still boils down to Pitt fans not caring enough. There are many reasons they don't care enough to make Pitt game days a priority.

 

[HailtoPitt]

CrazyPaco once said, about a year or two ago, that he thinks there is a location in Oakland where Pitt could build a stadium. I'm curious to know if you still believe that?

 

[CrazyPaco]

CrazyPaco once said, about a year or two ago, that he thinks there is a location in Oakland where Pitt could build a stadium. I'm curious to know if you still believe that?

There was one hypothetical on-campus location that may have been feasible if it was accompanied by $100 million in accompanying infrastructure upgrades that were never going to be on the city/county list of priorities. The idea was still a unicorn's pipe dream.

That location is now occupied by a structure.

 

[raleighpanther]

I hate this argument. The only problem getting to the Pete is weekday games. Anyone complaining about getting to the Pete on a weekend is big baby. What the hell do you people want, to drive in an drive out with no traffic?

Anyone go to the Clemson game? A Virginia Tech game? Yeah, there would be traffic issues in Oakland for a football game. There's traffic issues at Heinz too. Big flippin deal.

You hit it right on the head when you asked "What the hell do you people want, to drive in an drive out with no traffic?" YES!!! That is exactly what they want. Call them babies, call them unrealistic, call them whatever you want.

The reality has to be faced. Pitt has enough fans to fill Heinz, or any place. But we seldom have enough show up...for many reasons. Inconvenience is one of the reasons. If you create a new stadium situation where parking and traffic are MORE difficult, it will keep more fans away.

Now, of course, a shiny new on-campus stadium will have a positive impact on attendance. But the traffic and parking issue can't be ignored, because it is real, whether you think it should matter or not. It does matter to a lot of fair-weather fans, which we have a lot of.

And after the first year or two, after the novelty of the new on-campus stadium starts to wear off, the traffic/parking issue will become a bigger and bigger factor.

 

[Swervin27]

There was one hypothetical on-campus location that may have been feasible if it was accompanied by $100 million in accompanying infrastructure upgrades that were never going to be on the city/county list of priorities. The idea was still a unicorn's pipe dream.

That location is now occupied by a structure.

out of curiousity, where was the location?

 

[rojo36]

140 urban, densely packed, street gridded acres in some of the priciest and most politically charged real estate in the state my friend. It ain't coming back to the Oakland campus. I recommend appreciating Heinz for the advantages it provides, not for what it doesn't, because we'll be playing and recruiting there for the long term foreseeable future.

Wannstedt didn't seem to have trouble signing top 25 classes while playing at Heinz. You also have extremely selective memory of student crowds at Pitt Stadium.

And what do you think the North Side (Excuse me-"North Shore") has become ?? More of the densely packed, priciest and politically charged real estate in the city.

 

[cbpitt2]

I mean, what are the tangible benefits really that actually have true value? I know many of you get upset when PSU fans say "Pitt rents the Steelers stadium" (when in actuality, both are tenants, both had input into the designs, etc). But really at the end of the day, what are the benefits? Maybe a few more students at the game? Maybe. Payments are certainly going to cost more on the debt that what we pay annually for Heinz. Is that worth funding $500 million or so for 7 games a year and then sit idle? This isnt middle of nowhere podunk PA where you can buy a cow pasture for $20 per acre and erect some bleachers and concrete. A lot of the valuable space in Oakland also gets gobbled up typically above market prices. A good recent example of this is Pitt paying over $7 million for a two story building on Forbes that had Chipotle on the street level.

Short of a wide spread massive arson fire that takes out all the houses and people living in South Oakland, there will not be room for a stadium any place better than what we have at Heinz Field. And even if the massive fire takes out everything, we still have to purchase the property before we even start construction. We also would likely not be the only people looking to purchase swaths of that land with other businesses, the academic side, UPMC, real estate investors, Pitt housing, etc. I honestly think $500 million is a bare-minimum price Pitt would be looking at.

Do you honestly think these structures sit idle except for seven times a year? Anyone who thinks that is an unmitigated moron.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

You hit it right on the head when you asked "What the hell do you people want, to drive in an drive out with no traffic?" YES!!! That is exactly what they want. Call them babies, call them unrealistic, call them whatever you want.

The reality has to be faced. Pitt has enough fans to fill Heinz, or any place. But we seldom have enough show up...for many reasons. Inconvenience is one of the reasons. If you create a new stadium situation where parking and traffic are MORE difficult, it will keep more fans away.

Now, of course, a shiny new on-campus stadium will have a positive impact on attendance. But the traffic and parking issue can't be ignored, because it is real, whether you think it should matter or not. It does matter to a lot of fair-weather fans, which we have a lot of.

And after the first year or two, after the novelty of the new on-campus stadium starts to wear off, the traffic/parking issue will become a bigger and bigger factor.

I really think fans will tolerate delay and inconvenience in proportion to how much the team wins meaningful convincing games (ie big games that make championships at least realistic, and not having mind cramp losses against rent a victims).

The team doesn't have to win every game or the championship ever year to build this equity. But at least once in a while.

We're on year 41 of futility for a championship ... longer than the dang Pirates. We have never even won a football conference championship outright.

This erodes willingness of fans to tolerate inconvenience.

Win a bunch, win the ACC, heck at least the coastal, make a convincing run at the playoffs now and then, don't freaking lose to YSU if you MUST schedule them ... people will be more willing to wait in traffic, or forego both parents going to juniors t ball game, or gasp, walking over a bridge or whizzing in a trough. And won't give a dang what color the seats are.

 

[CrazyPaco]

And what do you think the North Side (Excuse me-"North Shore") has become ?? More of the densely packed, priciest and politically charged real estate in the city.

Not nearly as much as Oakland.

Plus, the stadia are already there. There is this thing called time. It stubbornly travels in only one direction.

 

[CorsosRevenge]

This is actually kind of cool.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colorado_State_Stadium

 

[CrazyPaco]

Do you honestly think these structures sit idle except for seven times a year? Anyone who thinks that is an unmitigated moron.

LOL, where are those going inside Pittsburgh?

Did you forget that those don't have a competing, more centrally located venue with superior ingress and egress and superior amenities only 3 miles away?

 

[cbpitt2]

CP, anything man made, brick and mortar, can be torn down and something new put in its place. People probably thought Forbes Field would last forever, Ebbets Field, the Syria Mosque, etc. A new parking garage is being built on the location of the stadium that replaced Forbes Field. Is the PAA next?

 

[HailtoPitt]

LOL, where are those going inside Pittsburgh?

Did you forget that those don't have a competing, more centrally located venue with superior ingress and egress and superior amenities only 3 miles away?

Those things really don't matter much, which is why many college stadiums don't have them.

 

[CrazyPaco]

CP, anything man made, brick and mortar, can be torn down and something new put in its place. People probably thought Forbes Field would last forever, Ebbets Field, the Syria Mosque, etc. A new parking garage is being built on the location of the stadium that replaced Forbes Field. Is the PAA next?

Some things are politically and culturally extremely difficult to tear down, if not impossible. The PAA is one of those.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Those things really don't matter much, which is why many college stadiums don't have them.

It matters to events looking for a host venue.

 

[HailtoPitt]

It matters to events looking for a host venue.

Then the Pete should have never been built, unless we are still to believe that the Pens were moving. wink wink nudge nudge.

 

[CrazyPaco]

Then the Pete should have never been built, unless we are still to believe that the Pens were moving. wink wink nudge nudge.

Pitt needed an indoor on-campus event venue. Of that, there is zero doubt.

Whether or not it should have involved tearing down Pitt Stadium has already been much debated...going back to the 1960s, and is now absolutely inconsequential to the future of the program. See stubborn time. It ain't coming back.

 

[Revenge Of The Noise]

Pitt itself would be well served, not just for football, to spread awareness of its presence to downtown beyond Oakland. That's where it began, for one. Two, I think it's one reason (not the only one by any means, but one) that the rest of the city doesn't embrace the university as PITTSBURGH'S university. They see Pitt as synonymous with Oakland, and thanks mostly to the slumlords that let south Oakland fester, see Oakland as a sh*thole, thus see Pitt as a sh*thole school (Pitt's media and city gov enemies gladly perpetuate this thinking).

However, locals seem to pat themselves on the back more for their "golden triangle" downtown (which I find far more barren and dirty than Oakland, especially evenings and weekends, but whatever... perceptions matter). Put a crappy restaurant downtown, locals automatically think more highly of it than they would if on Craig St.

I know there have been Pitt offices and satellite classes conducted downtown in the past (i took a couple). Nothing I know of wth permanence though. Maybe establish a downtown center in key building(s) ... In whatever becomes of the old Kaufmann building perhaps? But thinking bigger ... is there any feasible synergy or potential for Pitt to annex Point Park University, which is near Pitt's birth place anyway, and conquer downtown?

Either way, relating this to football, there is a vantage point on the trail on the South side near the Tarpfire (aka Liberty) Bridge where you can see the south tip of Heinz Field on the left and the tip of the Cathedral of Learning on the right. The city CAN be thought of as Pitt's campus. A photo taken from there at a bit of elevation (a drone?) could better accentuate this proximity.

 

[pitt2533]

It's hilarious that there are people out there who think Pitt should spend 500M MINIMUM to build a stadium in Oakland that would be used 6-7 days a year.

Figure out ways to make Heinz Field better. That's the only solution that makes sense from a fiscal sense.

Beyond dumb and they are beyond reason. Unbelievable to me really.