I had a discussion with a friend who went to Gonzaga and he does not understand why Gonzaga only goes so far but can’t get over the mountain. Here are my thoughts on Gonzaga. They are a good or very good team and even beat other good basketball teams early in the season. BUT they play in a conference with few or any teams that can truly challenge them. They always win their conference and have a good win/record by playing lessor opponents. So, most years Gonzaga is a #1 or #2 NCAA tournament team which makes the path to the Sweet 16 easier. After that, however, the competition shows up. My opinion is that if Gonzaga played in the ACC, SEC, etc. they would not always be a #1 /#2 seed and in fact could be a #7 seed. Or they might be a better team playing against better competition. But next year Gonzaga will win their conference again as always and will be a higher seed in the NCAA 2023 tournament.
Gonzaga
- Thread starter neench
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Aren't they a catholic school? They should try and get into the Big East. If the Big East was going to accept Boise State at one point, they should be willing to accept Gonzaga.
uh, they made four elite eights in the last seven years...they were national runner up twice in the last five...nothing to do with conference affiliation getting them "over the top"...they are at the top. Gonzaga would not come out as a seven seed from any conference in America right now...
True. I think it all just comes down to it being very hard to win five in a row against really good teams. The first round is usually a cake walk, but it's tough after that.
It's why I don't put a ton of stock into so and so coach never making a Final Four. Not saying it doesn't matter at all, but it all comes down to a play here or there and few shots either going in or not going in. A coach can really only put his team in a position to make those plays/shots.
Playing a weak schedule is also why they get a player like Chet Holmgren. He would get physically abused in a P5 conference. It was a smart decision on his part imo. He needs to turn pro now before there's too much film on him.
I don't think anyone is disputing they are at the top, the question is can they get over the top--i.e., win the national championship. I'm not so sure they can playing in the WCC.
It’s almost like winning a national championship is really hard.
1) It is really hard to win a national title as Ski said.
2) They sometimes struggle with athletic teams that defend well.
2) They sometimes struggle with athletic teams that defend well.
It's pretty simple...winning the NCAA tournament is hard.
During the regular season if a top 5 ranked team loses to a top 20 team it's no big deal...this is exactly what happened last night.
During the regular season if a top 5 ranked team loses to a top 20 team it's no big deal...this is exactly what happened last night.
Again, this sort of thread is why I will never trust Pitt fans to not throw a hissy fit over anything other than a National title in basketball.
gonzaga has been to 2 finals. 2 elite 8’s and 2 sweet 16’s in the last ten years and that is with a 31-2 team that didn’t have a tournament 2020.
Over the hump? Next step? Give me a freaking break. That’s insane, and shows how low knowledge this fanbase is.
gonzaga has been to 2 finals. 2 elite 8’s and 2 sweet 16’s in the last ten years and that is with a 31-2 team that didn’t have a tournament 2020.
Over the hump? Next step? Give me a freaking break. That’s insane, and shows how low knowledge this fanbase is.
Losing in the NCAA Tourney has nothing to do with the WCC. It’s just the fact that at this point of the tourney every team is good and it takes a little bracket luck to get over the hump.
I think Gonzaga is very good but, I do not think they would accomplish the same record during the regular season that they consistently do if they were playing in the ACC, Big 12, SEC, Fat 10, Big East, etc.
In non-conference & conference play this season they beat some teams badly; 92-50, 107-54, 117-83, 115-83, 104-72, 89-51, and 94-49, and there are more.
They jumped UCLA early and beat them pretty good. Lost to Duke, lost to 'Bama, beat Texas Tech in December and perhaps they don't do that last night.
They are not going to do that in other conferences. I think they ended the season 5-5 against ranked teams, and two of those wins came against a team in their own conference, St. Mary's.
Could you imagine Chet going up against Oscar, twice? Kessler, twice? Dickenson, twice?, etc. etc.
If you are making final fours, then I think it is reasonable to dream of winning it all. I agree that it's really hard to capture the national championship, but I think it's reasonable for Gonzaga to have aspirations of doing so. The problem is, I'm not convinced they are going to be able to accomplish that goal, and your point #2 goes to that. If Gonzaga played in a league with more athletic teams, maybe they would not struggle quite as much when they face such a team in the tourney.
Gonzaga as a top team is pretty new, so it's a small data set. They first won 30 games only 10 years ago. Since then their results in the tournament:
- Twice round of 32
- Three times to Sweet 16
- Twice to Elite 8
- Twice to national championship game
(One COVID canceled tournament but they were 31-2 with wins over major conference teams Oregon, Washington, Arizona, and UNC.)
Overall I don't think it's risen to the point of "Gonzaga underperforming".
- Twice round of 32
- Three times to Sweet 16
- Twice to Elite 8
- Twice to national championship game
(One COVID canceled tournament but they were 31-2 with wins over major conference teams Oregon, Washington, Arizona, and UNC.)
Overall I don't think it's risen to the point of "Gonzaga underperforming".
If Chet doesn't get in foul trouble last night, and 2 of the calls were highly questionable, it might have been a different outcome.
Come on, "If"?
Gonzaga shot, and made, six more free throws than did Arkansas. Arkansas was called for three more fouls than was Gonzaga. Were there NO questionable fouls called on Arkansas? None?
Gonzaga committed 15 turnovers to 8. Arkansas had six blocks to three. Gonzaga led by one point in the second half for a total of 15 seconds. That's it. Arkansas led for 19:45 of the second half. Arkansas shot better from the floor, and from 3. I also think Arkansas scored more baskets inside the lane than did Gonzaga.
Arkansas starters had 39 rebounds, Gonzaga had 33. Arkansas starters played 167 minutes to Gonzaga's 162. Arkansas starters had 15 fouls compared to 13 for Gonzaga.
This was not a fluke.
Arkansas beat them.
That's it.
Could you imagine someone like Oscar having to spend two games guarding a guy who shot 40% from three this season all around the perimeter?
Tough to foul them when notae is taking terrible fade away shots all game.
I don't think that Oscar would chase him around the court. Chet shot only 3 3s last night, made one, against a really athletic team. Kentucky is a really athletic team that could probably harass him like Arky did. I reckon he could have shot more.
Do you think he'd shoot about 10-15 3s in a game like that? I also think that Oscar would do very well inside against Gonzaga. Oscar shoots, for his career, 58%, while Chet is at 60.7%.
I'm not anti-Gonzaga. I really don't care about them but, they were beaten by a more athletic and tenacious team last night. They were beaten in pretty much every facet of the game, and that is the only metric we have to measure things.
THIS. I saw Gonzaga in games (IN THEIR OWN CONFERENCE) against San Fran or St Mary's that gave me some concern about Gonzaga's guard play and depth as compared with previous years. And that is exactly what bit them in the end.
They are a great program. Dean Smith at UNC from what, 1964 until 1982 was always questioned why they can't win it all. Sometimes it just doesn't happen until it does.
Tell your friend it’s hard to win a National Championship. Arizona kind of coasted through the PAC 12 but got their arses handed to them by Houston Last night. Calvin Sampson basically laid out exactly what he chose to do to defend UA and said none of the PAC 12 teams chose to defend that way. So, lots of times a team runs into a coach who comes up with a great game plan and shuts the other team down.
Yes, 5-4. I was mistaken. That does not change the results that much, does it?
15 of Notae's 29 shots came from inside the paint. He didn't shoot especially well but still had a productive game. I reckon that all of us Pitt fans would love to have a guy like him, heck, even to have Toney back.
Arkansas beat Gonzaga. It wasn't the refs, it wasn't the time zone, the altitude, etc.
Arkansas won.
Did you have seeds for those results?
A one, two or three should walk into the round of 16. I'm assuming the weak record means being over-seeded.
What weak record? I can’t imagine there are many teams with a better overall tournament record the last ten years?
Meant a weak conference "record" should have said schedule to be more clear.
did I say anything about it being a fluke?? By the way. Congrats on your ability to copy and paste a state sheet!
They simply arent that good. Timme is a great college player. Holmgren is a really good college player. Nembhard is overrated. The bulk of their team is no different than a random good P6
LOL - Holmgren is going to be a Top 5 pick in the NBA and a very good pro.
Nembhard, Strawther, and Bolton are good college players as well.
No copy & paste. Just looked at the shot chart and the stats. They generally don't lie.
Another in a long line of horrific takes.
Yeah they're won a lot of games. Idk if two national title games in 10 years is above or below the statistical mean for their seeding
The Zags have had there chances recently. Perhaps their best shot was last year. Their problem is guard play. I liked it last year, but Baylor's guards were just too damn good. This year the guard play was not good enough to win in a tournament that is almost always decided by dominant guards. It is great to have guys like Timme and Holmgren but, they only carry you so far.
