Seriously Man, don't you ever get sick of bringing up the same things over and over? You're as bad as one of the Joebots on the BWI site. It's over with. Sandusky is in jail, Paterno's dead, and everyone else Is awaiting trial. No one else associated with it is at Penn State. If you want to talk football, lets talk. Otherwise, you can discuss what you have for the last 3 years straight with someone else.
Info From Big Maryland Supporters On Franklin!
- Thread starter CaptainSidneyReilly
- Start date
Seriously Man, don't you ever get sick of bringing up the same things over and over? You're as bad as one of the Joebots on the BWI site. It's over with. Sandusky is in jail, Paterno's dead, and everyone else Is awaiting trial. No one else associated with it is at Penn State. If you want to talk football, lets talk. Otherwise, you can discuss what you have for the last 3 years straight with someone else.
Lets discuss after the trial of 3 of the top 4 Admin go to trial. The 4th would be there as well if he were alive. Lets just sweep everything under the rug. Do you think the victims are not anxiously awaiting these trials for some sort of justice?
I don't know what the victims are thinking, but I don't think they are reading football messageboards looking for discussions on it. I discussed this case 3+ years ago and am happy to let the court system play out. My not discussing it is not sweeping it under the rug it just has nothing to do with me or anyone currently at Penn State. If they are found guilty, I hope they live a miserable life in prison.
You were the one that said “it is over” & I am simply pointing out that it is not.
I hope they burn for their participation ( by not acting ).
I hope they burn for their participation ( by not acting ).
I have no idea how this turned into another discussion about Sandusky, but guess what? It is over for ME. If this guys story is found to be true, Sandusky can have another few years added to his life sentence, but guess what? It will not change anything. All are in jail or possibly going to jail. The saddest part is you are somehow hoping it's not over so it benefits Pitt and hurts Penn State. That is the sad reality of why you bring it up. For me, I pray for the kids and hope the remaining burn in hell, but I'm not going to discuss it on a football thread in a discussion about Franklin and Maryland.
I'll bring this back to football. How does Penn St's record before the sanctions have any correlation whatsoever to what happens now and going forward? Pitt was 9-2 and ranked in the top 10 in 2009 before pissing away a game against Cincinnati for the Sugar Bowl. We finished that year in the top 15. Does that somehow predict good things for us 6 years and 3 head coaches later?
You're 3 head coaches and some very mediocre football later. There is no continuity in personnel from that 51-9 period except your team colors and the football above all else mindset of the fanbase. The recruiting better argument has merrit. Franklin is actually an experiences HC compared to our guy...you could argue that point. But acting like a very successful period of football in the past has some impact on what's happening today, outside of the general history of Penn St football success, is a gigantic stretch, don't you think? It's borderline silly. If you really believe that three 11-1 seasons before 2010 means that you'll be doing that again 2 head coaches and almost a decade later, I don't know what to tell you. Congratulations on your optimism?
That 9-2 Pitt record was the first time in 30 years that Pitt had the opportunity to win 10 games during the regular season. That season was not the norm for Pitt. They have since moved to a little bit better of a conference and the mediocre stretch has continued. There is a chance Narduzzi could change everything that has happened since 1982 and Pitt could win 11 games, but would you bet on it? I wouldn't.
Penn State, on the other hand, has won 11 games over ten times since 1982. The coaches are gone from the 51-9 stretch, but it will be much easier to get back to recruiting at the level they are. I am not saying they will be 11-1 this year, next year, or the year after, but if I was betting on the potential of 1 team getting there I sure wouldn't be betting Pitt.
The ceiling at Penn State is much higher than Pitt's. Just like the ceiling at Alabama is much higher than Penn State's.
You will also notice I mentioned in my post that the 51-9 record prior guarantees nothing, but everything is in place for Penn State to succeed with the right coaching staff. Do they have the right one right now? No one knows, but if Franklin isn't the right one I'm sure Penn State will pony up the money and resources to look for the next one.
I think what bugs a lot of Pitt fans about Penn St fans is the blind optimism coming off a 6-6 year that didn't feature a single quality victory as if that somehow validates Franklin's ability to win big at Penn St. I don't see many on here arguing that Penn St's progam has a higher ceiling than Pitt's or that Pitt will eventually out-recruit Penn St. We'll get our fair share of top WPA guys, but we'll never dominate on the Eastern half of the state.
However, even though I'll give you credit for admitting that Penn St's past success is no guarantee of future success, in the same breath you're also using that as the basis for your optimism. Essentially, "we were great under Paterno for a long time, we'll be great again." I'm not so sure. It really does have zero impact on what Franklin does. It might improve his ceiling, but good luck taking that to the bank. Penn St recruited just as well if not better under Paterno until the sanctions. It hasn't yielded big results more than once or twice in two decades. One outright Big Ten title in 20+ years, right?
Penn St has at best the third highest ceiling in their own Division. They have been nationall relevant from a competing for a National Championship standpoint maybe twice since 1993? Missouri, Boise St, Baylor, TCU, etc, have been more relevant from a BCS standpoint than Penn St in that time. Both Ohio St and Michigan now have proven, successful coaches. A couple of good recruiting classes really won't matter if your new staff can't figure out a way to beat more talented teams like OSU and Michigan. Franklin has never beaten more talented teams unless they had mass injuries during a down year (Georgia, Florida). You'll be playing in the Alamo bowl every year at 9-3 or 8-4.
Pitt had a 10 year stretch in the 70's/80's where we were basically Pete Carrol's USC team. It had zero impact going foward once we continually made bad coaching decisions. Look at Miami. How about Tennessee for over a decade now? Florida over the last 5 years. Georgia hasn't won sh*t since the 1980s. Clemson was down forever. Basically, being Penn St is no guarantee of anything is you don't really have anything on those schools and their name and history alone have not enabled them to return to greatness.
Please notice I'm not saying Pitt is better right now. I'm just questioning your optimism. Narduzzi hasn't proved anything yet. Maybe he can coach, maybe he can't. I'm not sure what Franklin is either - you seem to be sure. It's one thing to win at a lower level job where there are no expectations, it's another to do it at someplace like Penn St. History is littered with big shot coaches who failed at higher levels. If Frankling gives you a boner with a good recruiting year and 6-6 record, congrats. However, at least in 2016, there is not going to be much of a talent descrepency between Pitt and Penn St when they play. Depending on what Narduzzi can do, there may not be much of a discrepency beyond that as well.
You can thump your chest on recruiting results, but I'd be mucher happier to see progess on the field. Penn St took a step back last year from O'Brien's final year. How many years in a row now has ND had a top 10 or 15 class? They can't even beat Pitt unless the refs gift them games.
I think the problem between the two fan bases on a difference of opinion of the effect of the sanctions. The majority of Penn State fans feel it has held them back a great deal. Pitt fans feel they still should have won 9-10 games while on them. The fact of the matter is that from the time the sanctions were announced it was know that they would start to have their biggest effect in year 3. Why? Because most college football players shine as sophmores, juniors, and seniors. Bill O'Brien focused the majority of his 15 scholarship classes on skill positions, because they can come in and help you right away. There was not a lot of talent brought in on the oline. It probably had a lot to do with O'Brien knowing he was not in it for the long haul. Penn State is still recovering from this and will not even be back to full strength this year on their oline.
Comparing Pitt to USC is a bit of a stretch as well as the amount of time. Pitt had great stretch of 4 years out of 6. For the most part, outside of that stretch, they have been hovering around .500 since 1950. That is a pretty large sample size.
Penn State has had a lot of small samples sizes in each decade since 1950. To agree with you, that was under the same coaching staff, so there is no guarantee a new one will have the same success. Although many would argue that staff held Penn State back in a lot of the recent years.
I happen to think Penn State will get back to being a top10 or top 15 program. I'm not expecting Alabama. I'm expecting a Georgia type maybe, yes they aren't playing for national titles, but they are pretty good pretty often.
I happen to think Penn State has a pretty good chance of being favored in all 4 games against Pitt. I think Pitt's best chance to win a game in the series will be the first game in 2016. I could be wrong, but that's just my opinion.
In all fairness, did Pitt not have Akron, FIU, Delaware, and Iowa as a schedule last year? We have you scheduled next year. Do you not consider yourself a quality non conference team? We also play in the B1G East which for the near future will be much tougher than the ACC coastal. I'm not happy with PSU's out of conference schedule this year, but I think it may have been made with the sanctions in mind. In the future PSU has Va Tech, Pitt, WVU, and hopefully Georgia.
People serve in various ways - much of the tecnology that kept me alive can be attributed to Fortune 500 companies and I appreciate that - on to football - I always enjoy your thoughtful and logical statements. I don't come to this Board often!! If I could get around better you would be welcome at my tailgate anytime.
I agree with your assessments of the three local programs, especially WVU and the head coach. I believe that WVU may look to Bradley from the West coast as a possible replacement.
I hope Pitt does well under Narduzzi and brings back some excitement to the region. It will take some time to get his players and intregrate them into his system. I beleive he will bring a toughness to the program which I think has been lacking. I will always pull for PSU and hope we win every game (which we're still far way from) but realize in Franklin's case as well that it will take time.
Again thanks for the kind words regarding vets but always remember that everyone has a roll to play and what we recieved from Corporate America was very important to all of us.
Agree, and thanks for the comments. I am not against Holgrosen and wish him success. I like posters that speak their minds on Posters Board and that is how we all learn together we can make great points together or give a view others did not think about. Many Pitt, WVU & Penn State Posters have changed my mind many times and I have no shame in thanking them teaching me something I did not think about.
Nothing against Holgrosen at all, just that I know some High WVU Contributors and they told me they are demanding a 9 to 10 Win Season "NOW", and will be very upset if they see 6 or 7 wins again?
I like your Bradley thought and feel that could happen and should happen. I met Bradley and was always a funny guy with a relax attitude and his Dad was a PITT Doctor. Tom badly wanted the Pitt job, and wanted to do at Pitt what Paterno did at PSU regarding the Football Program on recruits, graduation, and building a self supporting Program..
If it was up to me, I would prefer Penn State, WVU, and PITT in the Top 5 every year in any order or ranking and would enjoy that kind of finishing and banter that goes with it.
It has been my Dream since the Internet Age and Football Posting Boards that Pitt-Penn State meet in a National Championship game. The fact is when Pitt & Penn State played in the 1975-1983, they played some of their best Football together and against each other and helped each other become National Champions in 1976 and 1982-86!
Pitt, Penn State, Miami, WVU, ND, BC, CUSE, FSU, BYU as Independents dominated the Big Four Bowls from 1980 to 1993.
Thank you and hope more Penn State Posters post here on future discussions.
Nothing against Holgrosen at all, just that I know some High WVU Contributors and they told me they are demanding a 9 to 10 Win Season "NOW", and will be very upset if they see 6 or 7 wins again?
I like your Bradley thought and feel that could happen and should happen. I met Bradley and was always a funny guy with a relax attitude and his Dad was a PITT Doctor. Tom badly wanted the Pitt job, and wanted to do at Pitt what Paterno did at PSU regarding the Football Program on recruits, graduation, and building a self supporting Program..
If it was up to me, I would prefer Penn State, WVU, and PITT in the Top 5 every year in any order or ranking and would enjoy that kind of finishing and banter that goes with it.
It has been my Dream since the Internet Age and Football Posting Boards that Pitt-Penn State meet in a National Championship game. The fact is when Pitt & Penn State played in the 1975-1983, they played some of their best Football together and against each other and helped each other become National Champions in 1976 and 1982-86!
Pitt, Penn State, Miami, WVU, ND, BC, CUSE, FSU, BYU as Independents dominated the Big Four Bowls from 1980 to 1993.
Thank you and hope more Penn State Posters post here on future discussions.
In light of our discussions, I decided to look at the entire 1970-1993 Era when Notre Dame, then Penn State, then Pitt as Independents started to bring Eastern Football back and later joined by WVU, Cuse, Miami, FSU, VT, Bc and even Temple and Rutgers.
As far as I am concern, it shows how together some of best College Football and Players was played right with the Independents and the success they had in the Bowls actually led to Conferences ending their reign so they could keep most of the bowl Money.
PART I
AP POLL RANKINGS 1970-80 THE RISE OF THE INDEPENDENTS:
1970 - Final AP Poll
2 Notre Dame (IN)
18 Penn St.
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
COTTON 1971 Notre Dame (IN) 24 Texas 11
1971 - Final AP Poll
5 Penn St.
13 Notre Dame (IN)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
COTTON 1972 Penn St. 30 Texas 6
Fiesta 1971 Arizona St. 45 Florida St. 38*
(Fiesta Became A New Bowl And Was Not A Top Four Bowl until 1981 In Payouts)*
It Is My Contention That The Independents Actually Were Responsible Into Building The Fiesta Bowl Into A Top Four Bowl And Replaced The Cotton Bowl Based On How Many Independents Played Some Great Games Against Conferences And Other Independents, Especially In The 1980s!
1972 - Final AP Poll
10 Penn St.
14 Notre Dame (IN)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1972 Oklahoma 14 Penn St.0
ORANGE 1973 Nebraska 40 Notre Dame (IN) 6
1973 - Final AP Poll
1 Notre Dame (IN)
5 Penn St.
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR BOWL 1973 Notre Dame (IN) 24 Alabama 23
ORANGE 1974 Penn St. 16 Louisiana St. 9
Fiesta 1973 Arizona St.28 Pittsburgh (PA) 7
1974 - Final AP Poll
6 Notre Dame (IN)
7 Penn St.
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
ORANGE 1975 Notre Dame (IN) 13 Alabama 11
COTTON 1975 Penn St. 41 Baylor (TX) 20
1975 - Final AP Poll
10 Penn St.
15 Pittsburgh (PA)
20 West Virginia
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1975 Alabama 13 Penn St. 6
1976 - Final AP Poll
1 Pittsburgh (PA)
12 Notre Dame (IN
17 Rutgers (NJ)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1977 Pittsburgh (PA) 27 Georgia 3
1977 - Final AP Poll
1 Notre Dame (IN)
5 Penn St.
8 Pittsburgh (PA)
14 Florida St.
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
COTTON 1978 Notre Dame (IN) 38 Texas 10
Fiesta 1977 Penn St. 42 Arizona St. 30
1978 - Final AP Poll
4 Penn St.
7 Notre Dame (IN)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1979 Alabama14 Penn St.7
COTTON 1979 Notre Dame (IN) 35 Houston (TX) 34
1979 - Final AP Poll
6 Florida St.
7 Pittsburgh (PA)
17 Temple (PA)
20 Penn St
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
Fiesta 1979 Pittsburgh (PA) 16 Arizona 10
Now Part II will show how with the numbers together the Independents especially Pitt, Penn State, and WVU actually by competing together that help all of us to hate each other by winning and losing. Yet, it was actually all of our Programs finest Eras because we played for and won National Championships and major Bowls.
As far as I am concern, it shows how together some of best College Football and Players was played right with the Independents and the success they had in the Bowls actually led to Conferences ending their reign so they could keep most of the bowl Money.
PART I
AP POLL RANKINGS 1970-80 THE RISE OF THE INDEPENDENTS:
1970 - Final AP Poll
2 Notre Dame (IN)
18 Penn St.
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
COTTON 1971 Notre Dame (IN) 24 Texas 11
1971 - Final AP Poll
5 Penn St.
13 Notre Dame (IN)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
COTTON 1972 Penn St. 30 Texas 6
Fiesta 1971 Arizona St. 45 Florida St. 38*
(Fiesta Became A New Bowl And Was Not A Top Four Bowl until 1981 In Payouts)*
It Is My Contention That The Independents Actually Were Responsible Into Building The Fiesta Bowl Into A Top Four Bowl And Replaced The Cotton Bowl Based On How Many Independents Played Some Great Games Against Conferences And Other Independents, Especially In The 1980s!
1972 - Final AP Poll
10 Penn St.
14 Notre Dame (IN)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1972 Oklahoma 14 Penn St.0
ORANGE 1973 Nebraska 40 Notre Dame (IN) 6
1973 - Final AP Poll
1 Notre Dame (IN)
5 Penn St.
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR BOWL 1973 Notre Dame (IN) 24 Alabama 23
ORANGE 1974 Penn St. 16 Louisiana St. 9
Fiesta 1973 Arizona St.28 Pittsburgh (PA) 7
1974 - Final AP Poll
6 Notre Dame (IN)
7 Penn St.
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
ORANGE 1975 Notre Dame (IN) 13 Alabama 11
COTTON 1975 Penn St. 41 Baylor (TX) 20
1975 - Final AP Poll
10 Penn St.
15 Pittsburgh (PA)
20 West Virginia
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1975 Alabama 13 Penn St. 6
1976 - Final AP Poll
1 Pittsburgh (PA)
12 Notre Dame (IN
17 Rutgers (NJ)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1977 Pittsburgh (PA) 27 Georgia 3
1977 - Final AP Poll
1 Notre Dame (IN)
5 Penn St.
8 Pittsburgh (PA)
14 Florida St.
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
COTTON 1978 Notre Dame (IN) 38 Texas 10
Fiesta 1977 Penn St. 42 Arizona St. 30
1978 - Final AP Poll
4 Penn St.
7 Notre Dame (IN)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1979 Alabama14 Penn St.7
COTTON 1979 Notre Dame (IN) 35 Houston (TX) 34
1979 - Final AP Poll
6 Florida St.
7 Pittsburgh (PA)
17 Temple (PA)
20 Penn St
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
Fiesta 1979 Pittsburgh (PA) 16 Arizona 10
Now Part II will show how with the numbers together the Independents especially Pitt, Penn State, and WVU actually by competing together that help all of us to hate each other by winning and losing. Yet, it was actually all of our Programs finest Eras because we played for and won National Championships and major Bowls.
PART II
THE INDEPENDENT DOMINATION OF TOP FOUR BOWLS
1980 - Final AP Poll
2 Pittsburgh (PA)
5 Florida St.
8 Penn St.
9 Notre Dame (IN
18 Miami (FL)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1981 Georgia 17 Notre Dame (IN) 10
ORANGE 1980 Oklahoma 24 Florida St. 7
Fiesta 1980 Penn St.31 Ohio St. 19
Every Independent That Played In These Bowls Below Received A Full Share Of Each Bowl And Kept The Entire Bowl Share Without Sharing It With Conference Teams Because They Had None. This Really Started To Make SEC Angry And By The End Of The Decade, It Was The Independents Dominating Shares Of Top 4 Bowl!
1981 - Final AP Poll
3 Penn St.
4 Pittsburgh (PA)
8 Miami (FL)
17 West Virginia
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1982 Pittsburgh (PA) 24 Georgia 20
ORANGE 1981 Oklahoma 18 Florida St. 17
FIESTA 1982 Penn St. 26 Southern California 10
(Fiesta Bowl Become A New Year’s Day Bowl With Big Payouts)*
(The Cotton Bowl Stated To Lose Its Position As A Top Four Bowl)
1982 - Final AP Poll
1 Penn St.
10 Pittsburgh (PA)
13 Florida St.
19 West Virginia
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1983 Penn St.27 Georgia 23
COTTON 1983 Southern Methodist (TX) 7 Pittsburgh (PA) 3
1983 - Final AP Poll
1 Miami (FL)
16 West Virginia
18 Pittsburgh (PA)
19 Boston College (MA)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
ORANGE 1984 Miami (FL) 31 Nebraska 30
FIESTA 1984 Ohio St. 28 Pittsburgh (PA) 23
1984 - Final AP Poll
5 Boston College (MA)
17 Florida St.
18 Miami (FL)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
ORANGE 1986 Oklahoma 25 Penn St. 10
FIESTA 1985 UCLA 39 Miami (FL) 37
COTTON 1985 Boston College (MA) 45 Houston (TX) 28
1985 - Final AP Poll
3 Penn St.
9 Miami (FL)
15 Florida St.
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1986 Tennessee 35 Miami (FL) 7
1986 - Final AP Poll
1 Penn St.
2 Miami (FL)
19 Boston College (MA)
20 Virginia Tech
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
FIESTA 1987 Penn St. 14 Miami (FL) 10
1987 - Final AP Poll
1 Miami (FL)
2 Florida St.
4 Syracuse (NY)
17 Notre Dame (IN)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1988 Auburn (AL) 16 Syracuse (NY) 16
ORANGE 1988 Miami (FL) 20 Oklahoma 14
FIESTA 1988 Florida St. 31 Nebraska 28
COTTON 1988 Texas A&M 35 Notre Dame (IN) 10
1988 - Final AP Poll
1 Notre Dame (IN)
2 Miami (FL)
3 Florida St.
5 West Virginia
13 Syracuse (NY)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1989 Florida St. 13 Auburn (AL) 7
ORANGE 1989 Miami (FL) 23 Nebraska 3
FIESTA 1989 Notre Dame (IN) 34 West Virginia 21
1989 - Final AP Poll
1 Miami (FL)
2 Notre Dame (IN)
3 Florida St.
15 Penn St.
17 Pittsburgh (PA)
21 West Virginia
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1990 Miami (FL) 33 Alabama 25
ORANGE 1990 Notre Dame (IN) 21 Colorado 6
FIESTA 1990 Florida St. 41 Nebraska 17
1990 - Final AP Poll
3 Miami (FL)
4 Florida St.
6 Notre Dame (IN)
11 Penn St.
14 Louisville (KY)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
ORANGE 1991 Colorado 10 Notre Dame (IN) 9
FIESTA 1991 Louisville (KY) 34 Alabama 7
COTTON 1991 Miami (FL) 46 Texas 3
1991 - Final AP Poll
1 Miami (FL) JOIN BIG EAST 1991
3 Penn St.
4 Florida St.
11 Syracuse (NY) JOIN BIG EAST 1991
13 Notre Dame (IN)
(PITT JOIN BIG EAST 1991)
(WVU JOIN BIG EAST 1991)
(BC JOIN BIG EAST 1991)
(RUTGERS JOIN BEC 1991)
(TEMPLE JOIN BIG EAST 1991)
(VT JOIN BIG EAST 1991)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1992 Notre Dame (IN) 39 Florida 28
ORANGE 1992 Miami (FL) 22 Nebraska 0
FIESTA 1992 Penn St.42 Tennessee 17
(Cotton 1992 Florida St. 10 Texas A&M 2)
1992 - Final AP Poll
2 Florida St. JOIN ACC 1992
3 Miami (FL) BEC
4 Notre Dame (IN)
6 Syracuse (NY) BEC
21 Boston College (MA) BEC
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1993 Alabama 34 Miami (FL) 13 MIAMI NOW IN BEC VS SEC
ORANGE 1993 Florida St. 27 Nebraska 14 NOW FSU IS IN ACC VS BIG-8
1993 - Final AP Poll
1 Florida St. ACC
2 Notre Dame (IN)
7 West Virginia BEC
8 Penn St. JOIN BIG TEN 1993
13 Boston College (MA) BEC
15 Miami (FL) BEC
22 Virginia Tech BEC
24 Louisville (KY) (JOIN CUSA 1996)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1994 Florida 41 West Virginia 7 SEC VS BEC
ORANGE 1994 Florida St. 18 Nebraska 16 FSU/ACC VS BIG-8
BY 1993, ALL CONFERENCES HAD THE MAJORITY OF BOWL MONEY AS INDEPENDENTS JOINED CONFERENCES EXCEPT FOR NOTRE DAME THAT LATER BECAME BIG EAST BOWL RELATED AND TODAY ACC BOWL RELATED!
SEC Actually Started To Dominate The Big Four Bowls And Created The BCS System. Now You Know The Rest Of The Story…..SEC Knew If It Could Remove The Independents They Would Dominate The Big Four Major Bowls That Paid Out The Most Money To Each Program That Was Shared For That Conference Even Notre Dame Was Bowl Tamed And Had To Share In The Revenues!
Remember the Rose Bowl Now even joined the BCS Bowl System in 1996 that allow other Conferences to play in it, besides the Big Ten and PAC-12. This was again advocated and led to passing it among the 6 BCS Conferences.
By 1996, The BCS Conferences were ACC, BEC, B12, B12, P12, & SEC. Some Teams were left out of the Big-8 SWC Merger, and some Independents like ULou had joined the CUSA. The BCS then developed its Bowl Rotation System trying to match #1 with #2 Best Teams in the nation. Soon after, around 2003-2005 Conference Expansion and TV Money for BCS Conference kept increasing and the Big Ten Channel Network was developed. More expansion happen in due to TV Cable Subscribers and in 2010-13 Expansions happen in ACC, Big Ten, Pac-12, and SEC becoming a Top 5 Power Conference and Big East Became the AAC breaking from the Basketball Schools.
I put this information up showing how at one time Independents like ND, Penn State, Pitt, WVU, Miami, FSU, BC, VT, Rutgers, Temple and ULou all became Top 25 Ranking at this era and was taking more money from Conferences that needed that Bowl money to share among all Teams within the Conference.
During this same period, Notre Dame, Penn State, Miami, WVU, FSU, and Pitt played for the National Championships multiple times against the Conferences and other Independents. This really upset SEC, B10, ACC and Big-8, and SWC!
LINK:AP POLLS
http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/national_championships/ap_poll.php?year=1970
LINK; CURRENT BOWLS:
http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/bowls/current_bowls.php
THE INDEPENDENT DOMINATION OF TOP FOUR BOWLS
1980 - Final AP Poll
2 Pittsburgh (PA)
5 Florida St.
8 Penn St.
9 Notre Dame (IN
18 Miami (FL)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1981 Georgia 17 Notre Dame (IN) 10
ORANGE 1980 Oklahoma 24 Florida St. 7
Fiesta 1980 Penn St.31 Ohio St. 19
Every Independent That Played In These Bowls Below Received A Full Share Of Each Bowl And Kept The Entire Bowl Share Without Sharing It With Conference Teams Because They Had None. This Really Started To Make SEC Angry And By The End Of The Decade, It Was The Independents Dominating Shares Of Top 4 Bowl!
1981 - Final AP Poll
3 Penn St.
4 Pittsburgh (PA)
8 Miami (FL)
17 West Virginia
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1982 Pittsburgh (PA) 24 Georgia 20
ORANGE 1981 Oklahoma 18 Florida St. 17
FIESTA 1982 Penn St. 26 Southern California 10
(Fiesta Bowl Become A New Year’s Day Bowl With Big Payouts)*
(The Cotton Bowl Stated To Lose Its Position As A Top Four Bowl)
1982 - Final AP Poll
1 Penn St.
10 Pittsburgh (PA)
13 Florida St.
19 West Virginia
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1983 Penn St.27 Georgia 23
COTTON 1983 Southern Methodist (TX) 7 Pittsburgh (PA) 3
1983 - Final AP Poll
1 Miami (FL)
16 West Virginia
18 Pittsburgh (PA)
19 Boston College (MA)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
ORANGE 1984 Miami (FL) 31 Nebraska 30
FIESTA 1984 Ohio St. 28 Pittsburgh (PA) 23
1984 - Final AP Poll
5 Boston College (MA)
17 Florida St.
18 Miami (FL)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
ORANGE 1986 Oklahoma 25 Penn St. 10
FIESTA 1985 UCLA 39 Miami (FL) 37
COTTON 1985 Boston College (MA) 45 Houston (TX) 28
1985 - Final AP Poll
3 Penn St.
9 Miami (FL)
15 Florida St.
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1986 Tennessee 35 Miami (FL) 7
1986 - Final AP Poll
1 Penn St.
2 Miami (FL)
19 Boston College (MA)
20 Virginia Tech
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
FIESTA 1987 Penn St. 14 Miami (FL) 10
1987 - Final AP Poll
1 Miami (FL)
2 Florida St.
4 Syracuse (NY)
17 Notre Dame (IN)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1988 Auburn (AL) 16 Syracuse (NY) 16
ORANGE 1988 Miami (FL) 20 Oklahoma 14
FIESTA 1988 Florida St. 31 Nebraska 28
COTTON 1988 Texas A&M 35 Notre Dame (IN) 10
1988 - Final AP Poll
1 Notre Dame (IN)
2 Miami (FL)
3 Florida St.
5 West Virginia
13 Syracuse (NY)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1989 Florida St. 13 Auburn (AL) 7
ORANGE 1989 Miami (FL) 23 Nebraska 3
FIESTA 1989 Notre Dame (IN) 34 West Virginia 21
1989 - Final AP Poll
1 Miami (FL)
2 Notre Dame (IN)
3 Florida St.
15 Penn St.
17 Pittsburgh (PA)
21 West Virginia
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1990 Miami (FL) 33 Alabama 25
ORANGE 1990 Notre Dame (IN) 21 Colorado 6
FIESTA 1990 Florida St. 41 Nebraska 17
1990 - Final AP Poll
3 Miami (FL)
4 Florida St.
6 Notre Dame (IN)
11 Penn St.
14 Louisville (KY)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
ORANGE 1991 Colorado 10 Notre Dame (IN) 9
FIESTA 1991 Louisville (KY) 34 Alabama 7
COTTON 1991 Miami (FL) 46 Texas 3
1991 - Final AP Poll
1 Miami (FL) JOIN BIG EAST 1991
3 Penn St.
4 Florida St.
11 Syracuse (NY) JOIN BIG EAST 1991
13 Notre Dame (IN)
(PITT JOIN BIG EAST 1991)
(WVU JOIN BIG EAST 1991)
(BC JOIN BIG EAST 1991)
(RUTGERS JOIN BEC 1991)
(TEMPLE JOIN BIG EAST 1991)
(VT JOIN BIG EAST 1991)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1992 Notre Dame (IN) 39 Florida 28
ORANGE 1992 Miami (FL) 22 Nebraska 0
FIESTA 1992 Penn St.42 Tennessee 17
(Cotton 1992 Florida St. 10 Texas A&M 2)
1992 - Final AP Poll
2 Florida St. JOIN ACC 1992
3 Miami (FL) BEC
4 Notre Dame (IN)
6 Syracuse (NY) BEC
21 Boston College (MA) BEC
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1993 Alabama 34 Miami (FL) 13 MIAMI NOW IN BEC VS SEC
ORANGE 1993 Florida St. 27 Nebraska 14 NOW FSU IS IN ACC VS BIG-8
1993 - Final AP Poll
1 Florida St. ACC
2 Notre Dame (IN)
7 West Virginia BEC
8 Penn St. JOIN BIG TEN 1993
13 Boston College (MA) BEC
15 Miami (FL) BEC
22 Virginia Tech BEC
24 Louisville (KY) (JOIN CUSA 1996)
BIG FOUR BOWLS:
SUGAR 1994 Florida 41 West Virginia 7 SEC VS BEC
ORANGE 1994 Florida St. 18 Nebraska 16 FSU/ACC VS BIG-8
BY 1993, ALL CONFERENCES HAD THE MAJORITY OF BOWL MONEY AS INDEPENDENTS JOINED CONFERENCES EXCEPT FOR NOTRE DAME THAT LATER BECAME BIG EAST BOWL RELATED AND TODAY ACC BOWL RELATED!
SEC Actually Started To Dominate The Big Four Bowls And Created The BCS System. Now You Know The Rest Of The Story…..SEC Knew If It Could Remove The Independents They Would Dominate The Big Four Major Bowls That Paid Out The Most Money To Each Program That Was Shared For That Conference Even Notre Dame Was Bowl Tamed And Had To Share In The Revenues!
Remember the Rose Bowl Now even joined the BCS Bowl System in 1996 that allow other Conferences to play in it, besides the Big Ten and PAC-12. This was again advocated and led to passing it among the 6 BCS Conferences.
By 1996, The BCS Conferences were ACC, BEC, B12, B12, P12, & SEC. Some Teams were left out of the Big-8 SWC Merger, and some Independents like ULou had joined the CUSA. The BCS then developed its Bowl Rotation System trying to match #1 with #2 Best Teams in the nation. Soon after, around 2003-2005 Conference Expansion and TV Money for BCS Conference kept increasing and the Big Ten Channel Network was developed. More expansion happen in due to TV Cable Subscribers and in 2010-13 Expansions happen in ACC, Big Ten, Pac-12, and SEC becoming a Top 5 Power Conference and Big East Became the AAC breaking from the Basketball Schools.
I put this information up showing how at one time Independents like ND, Penn State, Pitt, WVU, Miami, FSU, BC, VT, Rutgers, Temple and ULou all became Top 25 Ranking at this era and was taking more money from Conferences that needed that Bowl money to share among all Teams within the Conference.
During this same period, Notre Dame, Penn State, Miami, WVU, FSU, and Pitt played for the National Championships multiple times against the Conferences and other Independents. This really upset SEC, B10, ACC and Big-8, and SWC!
LINK:AP POLLS
http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/national_championships/ap_poll.php?year=1970
LINK; CURRENT BOWLS:
http://cfbdatawarehouse.com/data/bowls/current_bowls.php
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Until Pitt proves otherwise... Pitt is not a quality non conference team. We have been 6-6 3 yrs. running. What I find interesting is It seems we even aren't a soft enough opponent for Franklin's liking.
In my opinion, from Harris To Wannstedt To Graham to Chryst Pitt had 4 New Systems that all Recruits and Players had to adapt to and required big changes in rebuilding....And the Pederson Sanctions kept Pitt Recruiting Classes on quicksand every 2 years?
Harris burned out and did a bad job with High School Coaching & tired of Recruiting. He was also burden with low salaries of Staffers that came and left bringing his Program many problems with stability. He did a very good job in light of all these burdens he had to deal with as Pitt was rebuilding and could NOT take advantage of the 4 of 5 years Paterno had from 200-2004. However, the real thing I saw he did not have his Teams ready for Games he should have won and usually lost 2 games that way every year. At the same time, he would then win a game most expected Pitt to lose and just burned out by 2004!
Wannstedt comes in and talks a big program but takes 3 years to get the players he needed to win under his system that was far different than Harris. Yet, Wannstedt did rebuild High School Recruiting relations with coaches. Increased his Staff salaries had decent recruits and won 8 to 10 games, but even then, he lost 2 games he could have won every year too? He made a mistake never recruiting a great QB either! Yet, Nordenberg that hired him, abandon him in favor of keeping Pederson and we all know that either both should have gone or Pederson, not just Wannstedt! Today, I remember Wannstedt best win when he beat WVU 13-9, and I cringe when thinking how he could not see that Pitt QB in the Bowl game stunk from his first pas, but kept him in all game long until last 5 minutes, and Pitt lost 0-3?
Graham was a ham that scrammed knowing Pederson was poison for any Football Program. Toad made sure the way he left Pitt was a sign that he could not work with, for, or under Pederson. Toad also lost 2 games he should have won.
Chryst was a mixture of Harris and Graham. He could build an Offense but had trouble on Defense and Special team’s costs him 2 to 3 games every year. Chryst reminded me of Dumbo when he couldn’t fly, as he watched his Teams not prepared for YSU, Cincy, Cuse, ULou, ND, UConn, all games he could have won in first year but just lacked the Head Coaching Smarts and finished losing his last 3 games with big losses? In his second year, Dumbo still did not have his feather to give him confidence to fly, as he dropped Navy, GT, UNC, and Miami on very bad Special Teams and crucial play calling that could have won 10+ games. In his Third Year, his special Teams just melted down to nothing and let the entire Team and Players down with his Dumbo response that he will coach Special Teams? Pitt lost to Duke, UNC, and Houston with just awful special Teams and that was at the end of the seasons. Dumbo Paul went on to make terrible calls in the Iowa and Duke games at crucial times. In addition, never had Team ready for Akron and GT, and could not figure out to run Voytik until the VT game, and lost the UVA that way. Again, 10 win season gone due to poor Head Coaching!
Narduzzi on deck? Just a hunch he will not make the same mistakes of the previous four, but I still expect losing at least 2 games as Coach Pat & Staff adjust to these players as a team, but I have a hunch he will have way better special teams, and the Defense will improve as the season goes along. Nevertheless, one major injury to Voytik, Boyd, or Conner could cost Pitt 6 games? Yet, I will predict still 8 wins!
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Did he really say PSU was "leading" for Tyler Boyd?? Lolololololol.
Pitt benefited by PSU Sanctions. Tyler Boyd really did like Penn State and Johnson and Holtz switched to Pitt, and all three are contributors to this great Pitt Offense.
At the same time, Penn State hurt Pitt back last year when they grabbed their last few recruits from taking Pitt commits and I still think those players were needed and would play faster at Pitt, but I wish them the best in any event going to Penn State.
I also thought Chryst blew it not getting Henry that went to WVU!
Just my opinion, not gospel?
In 2016, the game at Heinz will determine if Narduzzi is able to beat PSU. All the advantages that PSU has will be limited to how Franklin can win a big game on the road. Franklin is hesitant to play Pitt beyond the four game series. All the scheduling nonsense about seven games is nonsense. Things change but the OCC scheduling at PSU for the next 5 years is a joke. No one on the NC selection committee can look at that and select PSU for the games. Yet Franklin talks of winning a NC as if it is a given. Mr. Hype strikes again.
I really don't think Franklin is afraid to play Pitt.He's under the assumption that if he beats The Ohio State,Michigan State , Michigan and the rest of his Big 10 games he'll get in the playoff.You know what he's probably right too.BWDIK I'm a Cal State of Pa grad!
Captain your right on about the Johnson,Holtz,and Boyd!People don't realize that Boyd was a PSU lean for awhile.I play softball on the Senior Softball Tour with Tom Nola(Clairtons old coach) and he keep me informed on recruiting of his players.Cal U 2015 Woman's Basketball National Champs and Final Four in softball!
80, if informed, Lamont Wade where is he leaning ?
Good points and I think the 2016 Game comes down to whether Hackenberg stays at Penn State for his last year or goes Pro next year? I say this because I think Voytik wil stay at Pitt another year and having a well seasoned QB with lots of experience should never be underestimated. Also, it depends if PITT OL stays too, and how much progress coach Pat & Staff develop the Defense??? Plus, Coach Pat & Staff needs this year to show he can be a good head coach right away.
I can see why Penn State Fans feel they have the advantages for 2016 to 2019 and have a right to brag about it, even if all of us do not know what will happen. Franklin's Staff Coaching still has a jump on Coach Pat & Staff by 2 years, and their Top 20 Recruiting is a great advantage, until we see if Coach Pat is another Coach Dantonio?
Yet, remember this too, it took Coach Dantonio and Coach Pat next to him to rebuild MSU Football Program into a 10 Win season going 7-4, 9-4 with John Smith's Recruits and Coach D & Pat Coaching, then 6-7? After that 11-2, 11-3, 13-1, & 11-2 last year? Coach Pat is being given a terrific Offense Team at Pitt this year, and if he can rebuild the Defenses and Special Teams he could do really good so long has they avoid Major Injuries.
On the other hand, Penn State OL should be great by 2016 with even great running backs and Wideouts, and that may be hard to stop even if Penn State is breaking in a New QB if Hack is gone?
I truly enjoy what Penn State Posters and Pitt posters think will happen, but there are many unknowns that must be considered right now for both programs.......Can Franklin Offense develop an Average to Great OL this and next few years and does have the talent to run, throw and catch behind it in my opinion.
And
Can Coach Pat & Staff from Game One change the Attitude and adapt to the Players he does have and turn them into a way better Team even with less than 4 Star Talent right away, until he can rebuild like Coach D at MSU did?
Finally, if anything happens to Hack or Voytik at either program, that could be big trouble, never underestimate the importance of a talented QB with experience, except when he can't play due to injuries?
I can see why Penn State Fans feel they have the advantages for 2016 to 2019 and have a right to brag about it, even if all of us do not know what will happen. Franklin's Staff Coaching still has a jump on Coach Pat & Staff by 2 years, and their Top 20 Recruiting is a great advantage, until we see if Coach Pat is another Coach Dantonio?
Yet, remember this too, it took Coach Dantonio and Coach Pat next to him to rebuild MSU Football Program into a 10 Win season going 7-4, 9-4 with John Smith's Recruits and Coach D & Pat Coaching, then 6-7? After that 11-2, 11-3, 13-1, & 11-2 last year? Coach Pat is being given a terrific Offense Team at Pitt this year, and if he can rebuild the Defenses and Special Teams he could do really good so long has they avoid Major Injuries.
On the other hand, Penn State OL should be great by 2016 with even great running backs and Wideouts, and that may be hard to stop even if Penn State is breaking in a New QB if Hack is gone?
I truly enjoy what Penn State Posters and Pitt posters think will happen, but there are many unknowns that must be considered right now for both programs.......Can Franklin Offense develop an Average to Great OL this and next few years and does have the talent to run, throw and catch behind it in my opinion.
And
Can Coach Pat & Staff from Game One change the Attitude and adapt to the Players he does have and turn them into a way better Team even with less than 4 Star Talent right away, until he can rebuild like Coach D at MSU did?
Finally, if anything happens to Hack or Voytik at either program, that could be big trouble, never underestimate the importance of a talented QB with experience, except when he can't play due to injuries?
Daminals76, is more correct!
I think he was considering them until the rumors on trouble at PSU came out, but in any event it was a Penn State Graduate that got Tyler Boyd to make Pitt Is It?
Yet, after a quick review of Headlines at that time, Daminals76,
is quite correct and the only places that claimed Boyd wanted to come to Penn State was on Penn State recruiting boards like 247, BWI, and Scout!
I think he was considering them until the rumors on trouble at PSU came out, but in any event it was a Penn State Graduate that got Tyler Boyd to make Pitt Is It?
Yet, after a quick review of Headlines at that time, Daminals76,
is quite correct and the only places that claimed Boyd wanted to come to Penn State was on Penn State recruiting boards like 247, BWI, and Scout!
Yep, Franklin is doing what Johnny Majors did in 1973 when he said we will build a Fence around Western PA and although he did not shut out Paterno & Penn State all together, he did get the best recruits in the region talking about bringing Pitt back to winning a National Title like it did in the 1910s-1920s,-1930s when it was a Top Ten Winning Team and Program and doing well in 1950s.
Pitt did enough to get Paterno to improve his own recruiting and Paterno went south to grab great Recruits from VA, MD, GA, NJ, and SC! Pitt won the National Championship 6 years before Paterno won his first one as a result.
UVA London has done the same thing to VT Beamer taking some great VA Recruits enough from VT that is hurting Beamer now, in my opinion. Same with Coach D at MSU hurting Michigan until Harbaugh attempts to change it!
After all, remember 2 to 3 Players making 4 to 5 Plays can win most games.. Paterno taught this and he was right back in the 1960s-1990s. Today, there are more plays now
Franklin is convincing Pennsylvania Players it is them and us at Penn State against OSU, Michigan, MSU and the other Top 25 Programs and so far many Top 4 Star Recruits are buying into it!
Meanwhile, it is not just Pitt that Franklin is taking 4 Star Recruits from but he is really hurting Rutgers, Maryland, BC, Temple, UVA, and VT too! Yet, some Smarter Recruits are going to see they can play faster at these other Programs rather sitting the bench at Penn State? Pitt, UVA, and VT have been able to take Recruits that chose not to go to Penn State due to the success of Paterno and just 4 to 5 of those recruits did way better at Pitt, VA, and VT and later in the NFL than many that chose Penn State, and I have put those numbers, names, and links up before showing it. Yet, Franklin's 4 Star March continues with taking Menet just this week
Pitt did enough to get Paterno to improve his own recruiting and Paterno went south to grab great Recruits from VA, MD, GA, NJ, and SC! Pitt won the National Championship 6 years before Paterno won his first one as a result.
UVA London has done the same thing to VT Beamer taking some great VA Recruits enough from VT that is hurting Beamer now, in my opinion. Same with Coach D at MSU hurting Michigan until Harbaugh attempts to change it!
After all, remember 2 to 3 Players making 4 to 5 Plays can win most games.. Paterno taught this and he was right back in the 1960s-1990s. Today, there are more plays now
Franklin is convincing Pennsylvania Players it is them and us at Penn State against OSU, Michigan, MSU and the other Top 25 Programs and so far many Top 4 Star Recruits are buying into it!
Meanwhile, it is not just Pitt that Franklin is taking 4 Star Recruits from but he is really hurting Rutgers, Maryland, BC, Temple, UVA, and VT too! Yet, some Smarter Recruits are going to see they can play faster at these other Programs rather sitting the bench at Penn State? Pitt, UVA, and VT have been able to take Recruits that chose not to go to Penn State due to the success of Paterno and just 4 to 5 of those recruits did way better at Pitt, VA, and VT and later in the NFL than many that chose Penn State, and I have put those numbers, names, and links up before showing it. Yet, Franklin's 4 Star March continues with taking Menet just this week
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Thanks Vulcan80, I heard similar things but in the end I think the Sanctions & Bobby Engram & Boyd wanting to play near Home made Pitt is It!
Bobby Engram did a very good job at Pitt and also was a good player in his own right!Boyd made the right choice in going to Pitt.I'm glad that he's doing the job on and off the field.Far to many Valley athletes haven't done this in the past!
Chains I don't really think Nola knows that much about Mathews or Wade since he's at Gateway now.The last time I talked to him he did say that Wade was a really good kid with his head on straight and The Ohio State was after him hard.
Chains I don't really think Nola knows that much about Mathews or Wade since he's at Gateway now.The last time I talked to him he did say that Wade was a really good kid with his head on straight and The Ohio State was after him hard.
Corporate America made gazillions of dollars from the Vietnam conflict just as they are doing in the Middle East today. Don't believe there were many of Corporate America's family members flying home on the Silver Bullet.
Folks, a round of applause for PSUPALY for a fair presentation of the PSU point of view here.
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