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Interesting discussion on Facebook

Fk_Pitt said:
K’Bryan Hayes?

Jamie Dixon?

Mike Tomlin? (Actually this guy might be the best example ever).

if you read the Lair, these guys are the clubhouse leaders by far. Lol.

Carry on, Gents.
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Mike Tomlin is a perfect example. Yes, he's a good coach, but the national media seems to put him right below Reid and Belichick despite not winning a playoff game for 7 straight seasons.

I saw Jerome Bettis and that is another really interesting name. There is no arguing his leadership and production with the Steelers, he was a face-of-the-franchise player. When compared with other great running backs, he only had 3 out of 10 seasons with over 4.0 YPC with the Steelers. Another name may be looking at Lynn Swann's overall production compared to other HOF receivers.

I always though Kordell Stewart was properly rated. Loads of potential, but could never put it together. No one is regarding him in the same league as Ben or Bradshaw. A lot of the other names were busts rather than overrated. Maybe they were highly rated in college and just never developed in the pros. I guess overrated as a prospect, just not overrated as a professional player.
 
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Lothrop605 said:
Hines Ward. Very good and important player on some great teams but not HOF caliber like many push him to be. Don’t care about the stats. I don’t think opposing defenses feared him too much. Great WR2 but not a WR1 for me.
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Hines was another one that came to mind. He was an awesome player and personified those Steeler teams. But I see Steeler fans mentioning him for the HoF and it seems like but of a reach.
 
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HopeandChangeforAntoons said:
Hines was another one that came to mind. He was an awesome player and personified those Steeler teams. But I see Steeler fans mentioning him for the HoF and it seems like but of a reach.
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That was what I was referring to. You could probably even argue that he's underrated outside PGH, but inside, people will tell you it some sort of heinous crime that he's not in the HOF and I just don't buy that. Hall of very good, Steelers ROH type guy.
 
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It's now the Hall of Good and Ward deserves to be in.

A Super Bowl MVP on top of the 1,000 catches and putting defensive backs' heads on a swivel in fear of being knocked into next week. Which receiver did that before or after Ward?

Also very underrated at making catches in traffic and holding onto the ball.
 
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No one outside of Pittsburgh even thinks Ward has a snowballs chance of making the Hall. When blocking is a key part of the argument for a WRs candidacy... he's not getting in. There are several clearly better WRs than Ward still waiting to get in, and more to come in the next few years.
 
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Ward wasn’t even the best receiver on his own team a few years. Plax and Santonio were both better. Ward had more sustained success but no defensive coordinator ever had to game plan for him. Great player but it’s crazy that some want to put him up there with other receivers of that generation like Moss, Fitz, Harrison, etc.
 
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h2p_5150 said:
No one outside of Pittsburgh even thinks Ward has a snowballs chance of making the Hall. When blocking is a key part of the argument for a WRs candidacy... he's not getting in. There are several clearly better WRs than Ward still waiting to get in, and more to come in the next few years.
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Hines Ward is a good call .
I’d throw Pouncey in there for good measure .
 
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LeftCoastPanther said:
It's now the Hall of Good and Ward deserves to be in.

A Super Bowl MVP on top of the 1,000 catches and putting defensive backs' heads on a swivel in fear of being knocked into next week. Which receiver did that before or after Ward?

Also very underrated at making catches in traffic and holding onto the ball.
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How many 1,000 yard season did have in his career ?
6 out of 14 seasons .get the hell out of here .
 
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Burgh15 said:
Mike Tomlin is a perfect example. Yes, he's a good coach, but the national media seems to put him right below Reid and Belichick despite not winning a playoff game for 7 straight seasons.

I saw Jerome Bettis and that is another really interesting name. There is no arguing his leadership and production with the Steelers, he was a face-of-the-franchise player. When compared with other great running backs, he only had 3 out of 10 seasons with over 4.0 YPC with the Steelers. Another name may be looking at Lynn Swann's overall production compared to other HOF receivers.

I always though Kordell Stewart was properly rated. Loads of potential, but could never put it together. No one is regarding him in the same league as Ben or Bradshaw. A lot of the other names were busts rather than overrated. Maybe they were highly rated in college and just never developed in the pros. I guess overrated as a prospect, just not overrated as a professional player.
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I think Bettis was the perfect RB for Cowher’s teams. Played a lot of “possession football” in the 90s/00s. The game was basically won if the Steelers were up in the fourth. Defenses were worn down and nobody could stop Bettis.
 
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Pitt2009 said:
I think Bettis was the perfect RB for Cowher’s teams. Played a lot of “possession football” in the 90s/00s. The game was basically won if the Steelers were up in the fourth. Defenses were worn down and nobody could stop Bettis.
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And by the end - he was a great complement to fast Willie
 
Fk_Pitt said:
Franco Harris
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ChiefJusticeMarshall said:
I can't agree.
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I am with CJM on this. My interpretation of the reaction of his teammates upon his death was that he absolutely was seen as a major reason for the team's success. I felt it was not just good will to a departed friend but true respect for his skills. More than one teammate said."We did not start winning until Franco showed up" or something to that affect.
 
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Dointhatrag said:
Pat Freiermuth
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this is a great one. i dont for the life of me see why steeler nation loves this guy. there were rumors withe Ayiuk trade that they wanted him and steelers said no. again, just baseless rumors that are probably not true, especially since they have a much better tight end. but even if it was true, i wondered why in the hell we wouldnt trade him away..

dude is about as average of a tight end as you can get. below avg blocker, slightly above avg receiver who is injury prone.. h
 
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Zeldas Open Roof said:
this is a great one. i dont for the life of me see why steeler nation loves this guy. there were rumors withe Ayiuk trade that they wanted him and steelers said no. again, just baseless rumors that are probably not true, especially since they have a much better tight end. but even if it was true, i wondered why in the hell we wouldnt trade him away..

dude is about as average of a tight end as you can get. below avg blocker, slightly above avg receiver who is injury prone.. h
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I agree. People love Freiermuth because he runs over people when he has the ball. Is it fun to watch? Absolutely. But that is the only thing he does well. He doesn’t have the speed to create separation and he is a below average blocker.
 
So many terrible takes on this thread of people just airing out grievances veiled as valid criticism. Some notably can't help but to ignore the entire point of the thread and the word "athlete" just to take their shots. So here's my controversial addition to the list.

Does Bill Mazeroski have the worst batting statistics of any post-1900 position player in the MLB Hall of Fame? Yeah, he played great defense... but a 10x All Star (6 of those All Star votes came in 3 years because they played 2 All Star Games from 1959-1962)?
- How many position players make an All Star team with a sub-.630 OPS? He did it THREE TIMES! (But hey, I guess when you only have 6 other players to compete against and 40% of you can make the All Star team, it's a bit easier.)
- Almost half of his seasons his Batting Average was below the average NL 2nd baseman.
- He only has a single season in the top 100 all time fielding percentage (tied for 98th) and is tied for 81st all time in field percentage.

We have an entire thread dedicated to questioning if Ke'Bryan Hates is a bust in the Basketball Board, but even his offensive stats in his worst season are better than Maz's when he made a few All Star teams.


And for added fun, does Clint Hurdle Count? He is involved in athletics in Pittsburgh, but was also a SI Cover athlete and top 10 draft pick that only played 2 full MLB seasons because of injuries and partying.
 
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CJsE said:
So many terrible takes on this thread of people just airing out grievances veiled as valid criticism. Some notably can't help but to ignore the entire point of the thread and the word "athlete" just to take their shots. So here's my controversial addition to the list.

Does Bill Mazeroski have the worst batting statistics of any post-1900 position player in the MLB Hall of Fame? Yeah, he played great defense... but a 10x All Star (6 of those All Star votes came in 3 years because they played 2 All Star Games from 1959-1962)?
- How many position players make an All Star team with a sub-.630 OPS? He did it THREE TIMES! (But hey, I guess when you only have 6 other players to compete against and 40% of you can make the All Star team, it's a bit easier.)
- Almost half of his seasons his Batting Average was below the average NL 2nd baseman.
- He only has a single season in the top 100 all time fielding percentage (tied for 98th) and is tied for 81st all time in field percentage.

We have an entire thread dedicated to questioning if Ke'Bryan Hates is a bust in the Basketball Board, but even his offensive stats in his worst season are better than Maz's when he made a few All Star teams.


And for added fun, does Clint Hurdle Count? He is involved in athletics in Pittsburgh, but was also a SI Cover athlete and top 10 draft pick that only played 2 full MLB seasons because of injuries and partying.
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I think most people acknowledge Maz wasn’t a plus hitter. But he wasn’t just great defensively, he was elite. He is statically the greatest defensive second baseman in MLB history being first wins above replacement.
 
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Pitt2009 said:
I think most people acknowledge Maz wasn’t a plus hitter. But he wasn’t just great defensively, he was elite. He is statically the greatest defensive second baseman in MLB history being first wins above replacement.
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But not by fielding percentage, which everyone knows is THE stat to judge defense by.

😂
 
Pitt2009 said:
being first wins above replacement.
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dWAR yes, but barely cracks top 50 in WAR. Doesn't crack top 100 in oWAR or WAR/162.
A 5+ WAR is considered All Star caliber in any given season, he never hit that mark a single time and only surpassed 4 WAR in a season twice.
 
HopeandChangeforAntoons said:
overrated relative to when? High school prospect status? Draft position? Pro career?

Rushel Shell, Bostick, Morelli, Pinky Johnson, that midget from Clairton, even arguably Pryor… all overrated relative to HS.

Jon Baldwin, Tom Ricketts, Huey Richardson, Chad Hermanson, Mark Merchant all overrated relative to amateur status.

I think athletes that are overrated based upon their pro careers, Franco, Letang, Lynn Swann. All excellent but if they didn’t play in Pittsburgh they would not get the love they do.
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Wow. People are actually saying Hall of Famers are overrated. Probably too young to remember what a couple of those guys accomplished in Super Bowls.
 
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I think you can be in the hall of fame and be overrated. John Stockton did one thing. Pick n rolled his way to the alltime assist leader and got in the hall because of that. Never was impressed with any of his game. The jazz never won anything but he could pick n roll with Malone.
 
ratking17 said:
I think you can be in the hall of fame and be overrated. John Stockton did one thing. Pick n rolled his way to the alltime assist leader and got in the hall because of that. Never was impressed with any of his game. The jazz never won anything but he could pick n roll with Malone.
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I mean , he also has the record for assists and steals and also average double digit points .
c’mon he averaged double digit
Assists for 10 seasons in a row .
I didn’t like those teams - but he’s clearly not overrated
 
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PittPharm2002 said:
I mean , he also has the record for assists and steals and also average double digit points .
c’mon he averaged double digit
Assists for 10 seasons in a row .
I didn’t like those teams - but he’s clearly not overrated
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I don't consider the passing of Stockton on even the same planet of Magic. One was a literal magician with the ball. The other bounced it to Malone who bullied his way to a layup but Stockton got an assist. Just my opinion
 
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ratking17 said:
I don't consider the passing of Stockton on even the same planet of Magic. One was a literal magician with the ball. The other bounced it to Malone who bullied his way to a layup but Stockton got an assist. Just my opinion
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Sure -
I mean I was an Isiah Thomas guy - and always wore his number in basketball -
But Stockton is clearly not just a HOF player but likely a top 50 all timer
 
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ratking17 said:
I think you can be in the hall of fame and be overrated. John Stockton did one thing. Pick n rolled his way to the alltime assist leader and got in the hall because of that. Never was impressed with any of his game. The jazz never won anything but he could pick n roll with Malone.
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This thread is really going off the rails with some of these suggestions. Being the alltime assists leader (not to mention the all time steals leader) is pretty impressive.

Plus, he was a member of the Dream Team. So there’s that.
 
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PITTstorm said:
This thread is really going off the rails with some of these suggestions. Being the alltime assists leader (not to mention the all time steals leader) is pretty impressive.

Plus, he was a member of the Dream Team. So there’s that.
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Call me crazy but I thought his game was extremely weak and overrated.
 
ratking17 said:
Call me crazy but I thought his game was extremely weak and overrated.
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Seems more of a style you don’t like .
Assists don’t have to be flashy
I mean I liked Iverson and Jayson Williams being magicians with the ball, it’s impressive .
But ultimately an assist is an assist since it leads to a bucket
 
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PittPharm2002 said:
Seems more of a style you don’t like .
Assists don’t have to be flashy
I mean I liked Iverson and Jayson Williams being magicians with the ball, it’s impressive .
But ultimately an assist is an assist since it leads to a bucket
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It might be style, but I never put him on the same level as a magic or Isaiah. And he never won a title. Twice the bridesmaid. His stats in my opinion were inflated because he made a bounce pass to Karl Malone. And I am biased as I loved magic as a kid so to me watching both of their games, it was night and day from a style perspective.
 
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