"It Ain't Over till it's Over"

[Chescat]

Well to quote the great, late Yogi Berra....it really "ain't over." My guess
is Capel isn't home crying in his beer for not getting Sy. Dissapointed? Of
course he is. I gotta believe he's on to the next, even if it a lesser Big. I know,
I know...as far as we know, there aren't many left. Let's see what happens.
I posted in another thread that a lot of posters seem to be jumping off the
bandwagon. Let's remember...Capel is the guy we all thought was great
when he was so impressive when he was hired. He followed that up by
pulling three great recruits outta the hat at the last moment. Those of you
who think he was only a recruitor and not a decent coach...ask yourself:
How was it that his undermanned team was competitive in most games?
How even when losing in conference, they still hustled their asses off, never
gave up and somehow pulled off three wins and were in there at
the end of a few others. This doesn't happen if you can't coach.
I too would like to see better recruiting, but it is what it is at this point.
Let's see what he comes up with next. We're all a bit disappointed,
but "it ain't over."

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

Well to quote the great, late Yogi Berra....it really "ain't over." My guess
is Capel isn't home crying in his beer for not getting Sy. Dissapointed? Of
course he is. I gotta believe he's on to the next, even if it a lesser Big. I know,
I know...as far as we know, there aren't many left. Let's see what happens.
I posted in another thread that a lot of posters seem to be jumping off the
bandwagon. Let's remember...Capel is the guy we all thought was great
when he was so impressive when he was hired. He followed that up by
pulling three great recruits outta the hat at the last moment. Those of you
who think he was only a recruitor and not a decent coach...ask yourself:
How was it that his undermanned team was competitive in most games?
How even when losing in conference, they still hustled their asses off, never
gave up and somehow pulled off three wins and were in there at
the end of a few others. This doesn't happen if you can't coach.
I too would like to see better recruiting, but it is what it is at this point.
Let's see what he comes up with next. We're all a bit disappointed,
but "it ain't over."

Agree. Have same sentiment.
However, just worried that if next season isn't a little better than 14-19 that recruiting will suffer to the point that things will never be able to improve under Capel.

 

[Chescat]

Agree. Have same sentiment.
However, just worried that if next season isn't a little better than 14-19 that recruiting will suffer to the point that things will never be able to improve under Capel.

We probably all have the same concern as you. As has been posted by many,
he's not recruiting players to Duke. Hell, a lot of coaches could pull that off
given Coack K and the reputation of Duke's program. With that said, I'm not
as sure of what a great recruitor he really is. Many on here assumed he would
be a great recruitor. Why?.... Because he was great at Duke.
What I do think he can do is put a competitive team on the floor that comes
prepared to play every game. His players don't give up, and apparently
really buy into his program. He obviously knows basketball and watching
his games closely, I feel he knows his X's and O's and makes the right
in game calls. I don't like his zone offense, but so what.....he probably
wouldn't like mine either LOL.
Your point about being "a little better than 14-19" next year is a good one.
I do think because of experience alone, we'll be better. We need another
Big, and if the new Big is halfway decent I really believe we get at
least a few more wins.
As far as Kene is concerned, hopefully he's back too. Nobody on here
REALLY knows if he's out, and if so, for how long.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

However, just worried that if next season isn't a little better than 14-19 that recruiting will suffer to the point that things will never be able to improve under Capel.

The early sighing period, which will be over long before 14-19 comes to fruition, is where Capel is going to need to come through with recruiting. So for next season 14-19 won't make much difference at all.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I’m not concerned with whether Pitt has the right guy on the bench what concerns me is the way recruiting is done nationally and at Pitt . While I have no direct knowledge or evidence that there’s rampant cheating going on the whole process just doesn’t pass the smell test . Not being able to land one of these after thought guys really troubles me. So what’s going to change next yr ? I know the relationship angle , but I’m concerned that for most top recruits it comes down extras . Next yr Pitt needs to sign at least two of JC’s prioritized targets in the early signing period or they’re right back where they are right now ....fighting for the guys who are left and that hasn’t worked out too well this yr .

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

The early sighing period, which will be over long before 14-19 comes to fruition, is where Capel is going to need to come through with recruiting. So for next season 14-19 won't make much difference at all.

No argument with that.

It is more of an either,or situation as far as Capel ultimately succeeding, IMHO.

Land a strong class in early November which includes a couple of decent to good bigs and a repeat 14-19 next season won't matter too much as we should be set to take a jump forward in the 2020-21 season.

On the other hand, a lack of success in landing decent to good big men in the November 2019 signing period for the class of 2020, would mean that spring 2020 recruiting will then become absolutely critical. So if we are then coming off a repeat 14-19 season Capel's hope of turning the program around could very well be at an end, practically speaking.

 

[Chescat]

I’m not concerned with whether Pitt has the right guy on the bench what concerns me is the way recruiting is done nationally and at Pitt . While I have no direct knowledge or evidence that there’s rampant cheating going on the whole process just doesn’t pass the smell test . Not being able to land one of these after thought guys really troubles me. So what’s going to change next yr ? I know the relationship angle , but I’m concerned that for most top recruits it comes down extras . Next yr Pitt needs to sign at least two of JC’s prioritized targets in the early signing period or they’re right back where they are right now ....fighting for the guys who are left and that hasn’t worked out too well this yr .

"Not being able to land one of these after thought guys troubles" me also.
However knowing what you're doing on "the bench" and knowing
how to run a decent program with good student athletes also concerns
me. I want that AND very good recruiting. It's possible to do both. So
far the recruiting piece (based on this year's results) is obviously
not promising. Let's see what Capel does next, and yes 2020 recruiting
is crucial for him and his program.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

"Not being able to land one of these after thought guys troubles" me also.
However knowing what you're doing on "the bench" and knowing
how to run a decent program with good student athletes also concerns
me. I want that AND very good recruiting. It's possible to do both. So
far the recruiting piece (based on this year's results) is obviously
not promising. Let's see what Capel does next, and yes 2020 recruiting
is crucial for him and his program.

Having last yrs team beat Louisville and FSU should convince anyone he can coach .

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

No , it’s the exact opposite , it shows you the level of talent he has to work with .

Most teams win games they’re not expected win. It’s not necessarily any reflection on the winning coach one way or the other. Or losing coach for that matter.

I don’t know if Capel will be a good coach or not but picking 2 games to support that he is a good coach is pretty silly.

 

[wbrpanther]

Agree. Have same sentiment.
However, just worried that if next season isn't a little better than 14-19 that recruiting will suffer to the point that things will never be able to improve under Capel.

It will be better. Talented guards. A better bench with 4 new players that a lot of posters seem to forget Capel recruited. Probably at least a little better inside with Terrell a year older. Better outside shooting.

There are plenty of reasons why the team should be better. There were at least 3 or 4 close losses last year that would be wins with the new players. And there is always a chance Capel still can add to this group.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Most teams win games they’re not expected win. It’s not necessarily any reflection on the winning coach one way or the other. Or losing coach for that matter.

I don’t know if Capel will be a good coach or not but picking 2 games to support that he is a good coach is pretty silly.

Two games against two far more talented teams and two of the best in the country .

The best coaches always seem to have the best players !

 

[Chescat]

Most teams win games they’re not expected win. It’s not necessarily any reflection on the winning coach one way or the other. Or losing coach for that matter.

I don’t know if Capel will be a good coach or not but picking 2 games to support that he is a good coach is pretty silly.

Really? When did you see Stallings pull that one off? Those two games Capel
and his players won were more than just an upset. We were in way over our head
to two teams with far, FAR more talent. Sorry, but in my opinion it wasn't
just an ordinary upset any coach could pull off. He's not perfect on the bench
(who is?) but he's fine in my book.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

Really? When did you see Stallings pull that one off? Those two games Capel
and his players won were more than just an upset. We were in way over our head
to two teams with far, FAR more talent. Sorry, but in my opinion it wasn't
just an ordinary upset any coach could pull off. He's not perfect on the bench
(who is?) but he's fine in my book.

Yes. Really. If they were more than just upsets and his coaching is/was that good (or had that much impact) they’d have won more than 1 more conference game.

And I didn’t say he wasn’t fine. Or was. Jury’s out. Needs more talent - and I know that’s staying the obvious.

And Stallings was a dog. After they only won 4 games his first year and with his recruiting had they won one conference game in year 2 I’d have been surprised - even as hard as it is to do to go winless.

 

[Chescat]

Sorry I disagree. He might not be John Wooden but what he's shown me
so far is he's ok, especially compared to some who almost are clueless.
We were outmanned in every ACC game...yes even BC, Notre Dame. WF, and GT.
I can't see how he was expected to come up with more upsets.
Now as far as recruiting, I'd agree..." the jury's out." I'm still willing to
see what he finally bring in here this year.

 

[Drew1208]

Sorry I disagree. He might not be John Wooden but what he's shown me
so far is he's ok, especially compared to some who almost are clueless.
We were outmanned in every ACC game...yes even BC, Notre Dame. WF, and GT.
I can't see how he was expected to come up with more upsets.
Now as far as recruiting, I'd agree..." the jury's out." I'm still willing to
see what he finally bring in here this year.

I ran into Jeff Capel after that GT loss or it could've been the Wake one. It was the loss where we couldn't hit a foul shot.
He was like we couldn't hit a ****ing foul shot.
It started getting contagious and they were in their own heads.
We could've won a few more.
But when Trey played good, we won. When he didn't we lost.
I think the guys coming in this year should help against the obvious amount of zone we will see this year.
I think Trey won't be scared to take wide open 3's and he'll make a lot more.
We need that big man depth. I think we'll still get it.

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

I ran into Jeff Capel after that GT loss or it could've been the Wake one. It was the loss where we couldn't hit a foul shot.
He was like we couldn't hit a ****ing foul shot.
It started getting contagious and they were in their own heads.
We could've won a few more.
But when Trey played good, we won. When he didn't we lost.
I think the guys coming in this year should help against the obvious amount of zone we will see this year.
I think Trey won't be scared to take wide open 3's and he'll make a lot more.
We need that big man depth. I think we'll still get it.

I just got around to looking at up as I thought I recalled McGowens looking like an all conference player in those 2 games. And those were the games. He was much more of a factor in winning those 2 games than any coaching. And for anyone thinking I’m bashing or down on Capel - I’m not. Too early.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

I just got around to looking at up as I thought I recalled McGowens looking like an all conference player in those 2 games. And those were the games. He was much more of a factor in winning those 2 games than any coaching. And for anyone thinking I’m bashing or down on Capel - I’m not. Too early.

If he can his footing in recruiting the right players to Pitt he will be very successful. He’s been tutored by the best .

If you are being honest Pitts overall rosters talent and experience was at the very bottom of the ACC so winning the games he did is a testament to his coaching abilities . That roster had no business even being in the Louisville and FSU games .

 

[King Of All Message Boards]

If he can his footing in recruiting the right players to Pitt he will be very successful. He’s been tutored by the best .

If you are being honest Pitts overall rosters talent and experience was at the very bottom of the ACC so winning the games he did is a testament to his coaching abilities . That roster had no business even being in the Louisville and FSU games .

Agree with most but I still believe they won those games because the players had good games and that was a much bigger factor than coaching. Like I said before if his coaching was that good or had that much impact he’d have found a way to win more than just one conference game. It’s about talent and and they just weren’t good enough for a large majority of the season.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Agree with most but I still believe they won those games because the players had good games and that was a much bigger factor than coaching. Like I said before if his coaching was that good or had that much impact he’d have found a way to win more than just one conference game. It’s about talent and and they just weren’t good enough for a large majority of the season.

You have to give JC credit for exploiting a weakness in their defenses .

Teams learned from Louisville’s and FSU’s mistakes and took away what Pitt did best and there was no answer . There was no coach in the country that was winning more games at Pitt last yr with that roster .

 

[Chescat]

You have to give JC credit for exploiting a weakness in their defenses .

Teams learned from Louisville’s and FSU’s mistakes and took away what Pitt did best and there was no answer . There was no coach in the country that was winning more games at Pitt last yr with that roster .

Exactly! I never said he was a great coach. In fact, I said "so far he's ok."
Picking two games is silly. More importantly they were in most ACC games
despite being undermanned. They always hustled and never gave up. Getting your players to do this game after game IS coaching...damn good coaching in fact.
Getting your players to continually buy into what your preaching when they're
undermanned, and losing is not easy. Is he a great coach?...never said he was.
Like I said....from what I've seen "so far"...he's doing "ok" in the coaching aspect.
Recruiting?.....I need to see more, because so far it's been underwhelming.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Exactly! I never said he was a great coach. In fact, I said "so far he's ok."
Picking two games is silly. More importantly they were in most ACC games
despite being undermanned. They always hustled and never gave up. Getting your players to do this game after game IS coaching...damn good coaching in fact.
Getting your players to continually buy into what your preaching when they're
undermanned, and losing is not easy. Is he a great coach?...never said he was.
Like I said....from what I've seen "so far"...he's doing "ok" in the coaching aspect.
Recruiting?.....I need to see more, because so far it's been underwhelming.

I think he’s a fine game day and practice coach his recruiting was remarkable last yr and underwhelming so far this yr . Hopefully his failures this yr will teach him the realities of recruiting for Pitt . He’s not at Duke anymore .

 

[Drew1208]

Exactly! I never said he was a great coach. In fact, I said "so far he's ok."
Picking two games is silly. More importantly they were in most ACC games
despite being undermanned. They always hustled and never gave up. Getting your players to do this game after game IS coaching...damn good coaching in fact.
Getting your players to continually buy into what your preaching when they're
undermanned, and losing is not easy. Is he a great coach?...never said he was.
Like I said....from what I've seen "so far"...he's doing "ok" in the coaching aspect.
Recruiting?.....I need to see more, because so far it's been underwhelming.

I think he showed me that he can really coach defense well.
Some games our D was keeping us in games even with limited size.
Obviously we often eventually got overmatched, but usually because of offensive skill and lapses not defense. (And the general talent gap).
As we all witnessed this last year in the tourney good team D can get you pretty far.

 

[Chescat]

I think he showed me that he can really coach defense well.
Some games our D was keeping us in games even with limited size.
Obviously we often eventually got overmatched, but usually because of offensive skill and lapses not defense. (And the general talent gap).
As we all witnessed this last year in the tourney good team D can get you pretty far.

Yeah I agree. The defense was usually good and also showed toughness,
especially for such young guys playing against older players. I don't think
it's defensive X's and O' as much as he can get his players to really put
out on D. That toughnes and leaving it all out there on D is a reflection
not only on our players, but also Capel and pushing them and motivating
them to that level.
However, much as we're talking about where he's getting it done in coaching,
we still are waiting for the recruiting to happen. He came in with the rep as
a recruitor, and we're instead talking about his coaching abilities. We'll
hopefully see some results in the next few days/weeks.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

I look at the way an undermanned team competed and battled. The team played hard and that's a reflection of their coach. They just had no depth whatsoever.

I expect the new guys he brings in will compete with the same attitude, and the 2019 class isn't finished yet. They will improve next year.

 

[Drew1208]

Yeah I agree. The defense was usually good and also showed toughness,
especially for such young guys playing against older players. I don't think
it's defensive X's and O' as much as he can get his players to really put
out on D. That toughnes and leaving it all out there on D is a reflection
not only on our players, but also Capel and pushing them and motivating
them to that level.
However, much as we're talking about where he's getting it done in coaching,
we still are waiting for the recruiting to happen. He came in with the rep as
a recruitor, and we're instead talking about his coaching abilities. We'll
hopefully see some results in the next few days/weeks.

3 new big guy names have just surfaced. We'll see what happens. The kid who took an unofficial today looks extremely underrated.

 

[TD_6082]

He's mediocre.

 

[Drew1208]

He's mediocre.

Not sure who your talking about but the dude who took the unofficial has obvious skill and potential.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Not sure who your talking about but the dude who took the unofficial has obvious skill and potential.

Who is that?

 

[pittchagg]

Not sure who your talking about but the dude who took the unofficial has obvious skill and potential.

Will he qualify, though?

 

[Drew1208]

Will he qualify, though?

Lol it doesn't sound like it right now.
It's hard when these dudes barely know English.

 

[Drew1208]

Who is that?

I'll get his name for you. Some 6'10 kid got who played with the young Ball kid and Rocky watts in AAU.
His tape, (I know it's just tape) quite frankly looks more skilled than just about every big we've been on so far. It shows the ability to move, dribble, pass really well, block, jump.
He's from France.

 

[Drew1208]

Who is that?

 

[pittchagg]

Lol it doesn't sound like it right now.
It's hard when these dudes barely know English.

Always an interesting signpost to see a bunch of quality programs throw out offers during the summer circuit and then have absolutely zero apparent recruiting activity for months after that. Don’t get me wrong, though, he looks good if whatever’s going on with the credits or test scores can get ironed out.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Always an interesting signpost to see a bunch of quality programs throw out offers during the summer circuit and then have absolutely zero apparent recruiting activity for months after that. Don’t get me wrong, though, he looks good if whatever’s going on with the credits or test scores can get ironed out.

OK, I watched the highlights. To me, he looks like a 200-250 guy, which at this point, would be a fantastic get. He does seem to be more of a finesse player for 6'10, decent perimeter skills. Hard to tell about his post games as most highlights are wide open dunks.

I have no idea how a guy playing with Ball can have like no online recruiting profile. Clearly, this kid is a P6 player, how good of one we don't know. He doesn't appear to be a "true center" but with GT and Wichita offering, he is obviously worth a scholarship at this point

 

[Drew1208]

OK, I watched the highlights. To me, he looks like a 200-250 guy, which at this point, would be a fantastic get. He does seem to be more of a finesse player for 6'10, decent perimeter skills. Hard to tell about his post games as most highlights are wide open dunks.

I have no idea how a guy playing with Ball can have like no online recruiting profile. Clearly, this kid is a P6 player, how good of one we don't know. He doesn't appear to be a "true center" but with GT and Wichita offering, he is obviously worth a scholarship at this point

I think we need a 4 that can score anyhow.

 

[DC_Area_Panther]

I think we need a 4 that can score anyhow.

He has ball skills and seems to have far better "hands" than Brown and should be less of a liability down low. His mid-range shooting appears to be similar to Brown. He would give us more depth in the post and the ability to play two bigs simultaneously when game situations favored that approach.

 

[Chescat]

OK, I watched the highlights. To me, he looks like a 200-250 guy, which at this point, would be a fantastic get. He does seem to be more of a finesse player for 6'10, decent perimeter skills. Hard to tell about his post games as most highlights are wide open dunks.

That how I also saw his highlight film. The important thing is...he's a Big.
6'10 is 6'10 no matter what. He has some "finesse" skills and runs the
floor well, but I'm also certain Capel would have him inside.
At this point, we have to go after a player like this, it's not like we have a
lot of other options.
It would be great to get him.

 

[jrnPitt]

Agree. Have same sentiment.
However, just worried that if next season isn't a little better than 14-19 that recruiting will suffer to the point that things will never be able to improve under Capel.

You are exactly right. A very poor record next season plus the X man leaving for the money may have this Pitt BB program much longer than many on this board expect.

 

[Drew1208]

That how I also saw his highlight film. The important thing is...he's a Big.
6'10 is 6'10 no matter what. He has some "finesse" skills and runs the
floor well, but I'm also certain Capel would have him inside.
At this point, we have to go after a player like this, it's not like we have a
lot of other options.
It would be great to get him.

His passing highlights really stood out to me.
That's not an something u see much. And that's a very underrated skill for big men.

 

[TD_6082]

Not sure who your talking about but the dude who took the unofficial has obvious skill and potential.

I was talking about Capel.