I have not heard Cam say anything in all his interviews about the academics at UNC. He said he didn't want to be part of rebuilding at Pitt and that he is a good basketball fit at UNC. This grad transfer rule has zero to do with academics and is all athletics. I would imagine this situation will get the NCAA to change the grad transfer rule because the precedent set with Cam would just crush the nonpowerhouse schools.
KDKA's Bob Pompeani attacks Pitt on the Cam issue!!!
- Thread starter PittPoker
- Start date
Of course it doesn't. Here is the percentage of academics that takes place in college athlete's college decisions. 5%. At most. Maybe.
Actually very Good point. I didn't think of it from that angle. I am sure there are plenty of kids transferring from power schools to lower levels as Grad Transfers that we are just not hearing about.
At the power conference levels, that is probably being real generous with the %.
Let's be honest, though. Context matters. Cam is a kid with a potential to go from fringe NCAA athlete to NBA draft pick. This isn't like Levance Fields asking to transfer to UConn after his junior year, where it would actually have some effect on standings and tournament results. Pitt is a dumpster fire and Cam and has family don't want to be here for it. Cam has performed at a far higher level as a student than most NCAA athletes, and he deserves extra discretion. There is no "precedent setting" here before Pitt called his bluff and is willing to ride it out to defeat. Now we're talking about conference rules being established and NCAA appeals. Cam Johnson is in a position right now that no other Pitt player may ever be in, and there's no reason to have gotten into this predicament.
Pitt could have said, "You're a great person. We're sorry to see you leave. Go win a ring."
When you make exceptions, you set precedence. It's as simple as that. It doesn't matter if he's Jesus Christ and it doesn't matter whether this team can win or not.
And his equating this to coaches and ADs leaving is ridiculous since there are clear terms in their contracts that govern termination by either party. The people that eat that up are too dumb to understand the difference.
And his equating this to coaches and ADs leaving is ridiculous since there are clear terms in their contracts that govern termination by either party. The people that eat that up are too dumb to understand the difference.
But what also is going unsaid, Cam could have transferred to Arizona, Kentucky, Michigan, UCLA, etc...and said the same thing. So Pitt is not denying him his dream to "win a ring". OR....if Cam only had one year left of eligibility, maybe this changes Pitt's stance. But he has two if I am not mistaken. That would hurt to have him haunt you for 2 years.
I have no idea what criteria he based his decision on, and I frankly don't care. He wants UNC for whatever reason, and I think he's earned the right to choose to go anywhere he wants. He isn't going to haunt us any more at UNC than UNC or anyone would have haunted us to begin with. If Pitt and UNC were both top-10 teams right now, I may feel differently. That's the context.
The precedent has already been set that multiple grad transfers have been allowed to transfer inside their conference.
The only precedent that Pitt will establish at this point is what happens when a school intentionally impedes the move. If Pitt had said, "Cam earned this based on extreme circumstances," Pitt would retain the right to make a different decision for other players in the future. As it is, if Pitt loses this battle, it potentially sets a precedent not only for Pitt, but every ACC team, and potentially every team nationally. Pitt vastly overplayed their hand, as we are wont to do.
Unc football player transferred to Virginia as grad transfer with no restriction. There are others.
Yes, grad transfers have been in the acc, and even acc and been immediately eligible
I don't feel bad for cam, he's gone.
I don't feel bad for cam, he's gone.
It's Pitt's restriction that they choose to impose, and clearly communicated to Cam and his family. They have every right to remain consistent, even when challenged. Cam's GPA, who recruited him, who the AD is, or whatever amount of public whining he does shouldn't be a factor.
Cam has every right to fight it. The NCAA will decide.
I'm not sure why anyone has a problem with Pitt here, other than having a bone to pick with the Athletic department.
Give me a few examples of impactful BASKETBALL grad-transfers who were permitted to stay in-conference, among the P5. Football and its relatively giant roster-size is a totally different animal. That's not apples-to-apples.
I have no problem if the rules are changed, let's just make it applicable for everyone. No more case-by-case nonsense.
Frankly this should not be that complicated.
For Grad transfers the rules should be black and white and should be dictated by the NCAA. Once you graduate, the rule should be clearly written and they should not be open to interpretation.
Simply write it one of two ways. 1)Allow transfers to go absolutely anywhere they pick or 2) allow transfers to go anywhere except to an in conference team.
Not sure why it needs to be more complicated than that.
And while I did not read the current rule, it is obviously not clear enough if Pitt feels one way and the kid transferring interprets it a different way. And if it is that black and white, then I don't understand how Pitt can be that dumb trying to block this as bad as it sucks and as much as I think Johnson is sort of sticking it to Pitt with this move.
For Grad transfers the rules should be black and white and should be dictated by the NCAA. Once you graduate, the rule should be clearly written and they should not be open to interpretation.
Simply write it one of two ways. 1)Allow transfers to go absolutely anywhere they pick or 2) allow transfers to go anywhere except to an in conference team.
Not sure why it needs to be more complicated than that.
And while I did not read the current rule, it is obviously not clear enough if Pitt feels one way and the kid transferring interprets it a different way. And if it is that black and white, then I don't understand how Pitt can be that dumb trying to block this as bad as it sucks and as much as I think Johnson is sort of sticking it to Pitt with this move.
So you are criticizing the current rule, which you have not even read. Makes sense.
I am making the assumption it is not clear based on one party thinking they have the right to block the transfer and the other party thinking they have the right to transfer wherever they want to.
Obviously it is not clear enough.
It is absolutely clear and it has been posted here several times. The NCAA puts no restrictions on destination. Pitt is arguing that they have inherent power to put additional limits on transfers beyond what the NCAA requires. If the NCAA cared about banning intra-conference transfers, they'd write it in their rules. They didn't. To the NCAA, there is no difference between Cam going to Arizona, or UNC, or Arkansas Pine Bluff.
Then I don't understand why this is dragging out. The NCAA should tell Pitt to shut the eff up and tell them they can't dictate where Johnson transfers.
How can Pitt really be this dumb if it is as clear as you say?
Which is why Cam requested an NCAA appeal hearing that most people think he will win.
https://pittsburgh.forums.rivals.co...sferring-to-an-acc.112709/page-2#post-1903375
The NCAA allows the institution the right to create their own blocks for transfers. The NCAA and ACC themself allow grad transfers to anywhere with no time sitting out.
Pitt is just using the option to create their own limitation as allowed by the NCAA.
He carries on the grand tradition of sportscasters wearing hideous blazers.
I generally like the guy ok. But his opinion is garbage on this issue. To all these media clowns, Pitt is supposed to bend over for a 'school' that openly committed academic fraud? UNC should be on Death Penalty. Eat crap and die, UNC and Johnson. And Pompeani too, if he persists.
It's either some just wanting to dick on Stallings (whom I don't favor, as I've clearly stated).
Or Marxists who want to fight for the poor oppressed athlete (these sad sad cases burdened with free rides, bling and poon). They want to stick it to The Man (somehow UNC is not an oppressive corrupt pig-dog establishment, yet Pitt is).
Or the tired old "Pitt needs to prove we have more integrity than everyone else" (which they somehow equate with having crappy sports).
Or plain old anti-Pitt trolls who would never be tolerated on other schools message boards but run wild here advocating Pitt's sucking.
All of it is bullshit. Professional college sports (the correct term for this) is a vile filthy business and you don't do your enemy favors, especially an enemy that is proven a thousand percent more filthy than you.
funny hill to die on...
When cam is everything right about college athletics.
High honors graduate athlete in 3 years
Why do you continue to post half-truths? The NCAA in general allows an exemption for grad transfers but ultimately leaves it to the discretion of the individual conferences and schools. Some conferences similarly allow the exemption while some others still specifically prohibit intraconference transfers unless you sit a year whether graduate or undergraduate.
Now the question is whether any conference or individual school electing to impose the restriction can actually enforce it. I doubt an individual school can if their conference allows it, not sure for the conferences that still specifically prohibit it. Cam's public statement seems to be citing the technicality that Pitt already granted him permission to talk to and academically transfer to UNC as his basis as opposed to a general claim that the restriction can't be enforced.
Bottom line, it is far from absolutely clear.
The NCAA rule absolutely is clear. The NCAA has already determined that Cam is eligible to play basketball next season at North Carolina. The only thing that is not clear is if the NCAA is going to allow Pitt to impose more restrictive rules on Cam than their (and the ACC's) rule book does.
And the fact of the matter is, at this point unless someone gives in it probably isn't the NCAA that is going to make the decision.
Like I said, the NCAA has their stated stance on it but doesn't clearly mandate it to the individual conferences and schools. Some conferences still clearly prohibit it. Please tell me where that isn't true and how the differing rules/guidelines between general NCAA and individual conferences make it absolutely clear and straightforward.
The question is whether or not the individual conferences and schools can enforce their stance if they elected to pursue it. Most if not all have elected to relent so far.
Yeah, they "stated their stance" in the rule book. The NCAA rule is clear. The question is if schools can go further than the NCAA and their conferences in what they restrict.
Nothing I have posted is a half truth. You just agreed with what I wrote.
The situation is analogous to the federal government saying something shall not be restricted, and then then a state issuing a law restricting said activity. An unconstitutional law is still a law until overturned by a court.
Effectively, Pitt can impose whatever they want on any player, in any situation, and the player has the burden of petitioning the NCAA to overturn the decision.
Maybe a weak example is Trump's travel ban. He can put out a new travel ban every week if he wants, and some poor schmuck has to go petition a judge to halt it every time.
A player in the B1G was restricted from an intra-conference transfer, appealed the decision, the NCAA agreed, and the kid ended up at Indiana.
Ok so what is it exactly that we are debating again. The only thing that is clear is that it is completely unclear.
When the NCAA has a stated stance but allows conferences and schools to deviate from that stance and some conferences due expressly deviate from the NCAA stated stance, it is one giant gray area as to what can be enforced. But you and your buddy Vance can continue to act like it is crystal clear.
The only thing absolutely clear is that the big giant gray area will get cleared up sooner than later. It wasn't a problem as little as 3-4 years ago when the # of grad transfers was minimal (less than 20 or 30 if I'm remembering the # correctly) but is a problem now that the # is well into the hundreds.
Good ole Vance, master of the moving target. Says one thing in one post and changes it up in another when called out. You are predictable.
What is clear is that NCAA rules state Pitt has to grant him his release. They did, with the stipulation that he can't go to an ACC school and play next year. As far as the NCAA is concerned he can play next year.... if he gets his release from Pitt. Can Pitt impose this stipulation? I'm guessing they can, or they wouldn't fight it.
Cam's not helping himself with the circus he created.
I just feel like this is a dangerous precedent to set. Allowing kids to transfer within conference is a bad look for the business side of NCAA Basketball. Questions about competitive balance and integrity can be quite damaging for a multi billion dollar business. The NFL & MLB have gone to great lengths to protect their image in this regard. I wouldn't be surprised if the NCAA shut this transfer stuff down with restriction as soon as they can
Yeah you could have an all conference team of players from several different teams colluding to play together on the same team. It is a scary proposition. It is similar to golden st being the best team (record wise) last year and then getting durant the next year.
And as I have been saying since long ago, when a player is willing to challenge this they are almost certainly going to win. If the tweets from Matt tonight are to be believed, Pitt is ready to cave. And the reason for that is that Pitt knows that they don't have a leg to stand on and they aren't actually willing to fight it. In fact it wouldn't surprise me if the NCAA was quietly telling Pitt to let this drop, because if this does get to court the ruling could end up being far more reaching than just schools can't restrict graduate students from transferring elsewhere and being immediately eligible.
