Loaded Capel Tweet

[Wanstash21]

C'mon man. You're using the one-man 2021 class? Why not use the top-25 ranked 2022 class?

Even broader, you know as well as I do that if Narduzzi signed a kid with Santos' profile - a top 250 kid who was at one point ranked in the top 75, there would be people (including probably yourself) falling all over themselves praising Narduzzi for it. We've got people over on the football board crowing about Narduzzi's recruiting classes filled with kids who are much, much, much less highly-regarded than Santos.

it's not a coincidence that he's starting to cleanup now that kids can visit.. he can actually sell the school and show these kids his vision with the team and facilities.

I can't imagine thinking that above and beyond facilities don't play a factor here. Sure, the Pete has nice facilities. That doesn't get it done, though. You need over the top. You need stuff that kids might not even use. You need the stuff that's so far outside the box, because that's what sells.

If dumping money into sleeping pods helps you land better players, it's a no brainer investment. It's not even a question. You can't get by in this landscape trying to cut corners with costs and facilities. You absolutely cannot, and I'm glad Pitt realizes that.

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

it's not a coincidence that he's starting to cleanup now that kids can visit.. he can actually sell the school and show these kids his vision with the team and facilities.

I can't imagine thinking that above and beyond facilities don't play a factor here. Sure, the Pete has nice facilities. That doesn't get it done, though. You need over the top. You need stuff that kids might not even use. You need the stuff that's so far outside the box, because that's what sells.

If dumping money into sleeping pods helps you land better players, it's a no brainer investment. It's not even a question. You can't get by in this landscape trying to cut corners with costs and facilities. You absolutely cannot, and I'm glad Pitt realizes that.

Yeah but Pittsburgh is the most livable city in America and there’s more hot chicks here than a place like Miami or Atlanta!!!

 

[BballinsiderfromPitt]

C'mon man. You're using the one-man 2021 class? Why not use the top-25 ranked 2022 class?

Even broader, you know as well as I do that if Narduzzi signed a kid with Santos' profile - a top 250 kid who was at one point ranked in the top 75, there would be people (including probably yourself) falling all over themselves praising Narduzzi for it. We've got people over on the football board crowing about Narduzzi's recruiting classes filled with kids who are much, much, much less highly-regarded than Santos.

Narduzzi takes 10 wildcard 2 stars and one turns into Patrick Jones and everyone excuses being 18-17 against FBS competition in years 4/5/6 as not mediocre. It’s insane how punch drunk Pitt fans are from a debacle of a decade ago.

Were people at the 51-6 embarrassment or did they watch the 8 yard passing game or the 45-3 drubbing in Heinz just last year? He’s got more clunkers than miracle wins.

 

[pittchagg]

it's not a coincidence that he's starting to cleanup now that kids can visit.. he can actually sell the school and show these kids his vision with the team and facilities.

I can't imagine thinking that above and beyond facilities don't play a factor here. Sure, the Pete has nice facilities. That doesn't get it done, though. You need over the top. You need stuff that kids might not even use. You need the stuff that's so far outside the box, because that's what sells.

If dumping money into sleeping pods helps you land better players, it's a no brainer investment. It's not even a question. You can't get by in this landscape trying to cut corners with costs and facilities. You absolutely cannot, and I'm glad Pitt realizes that.

I didn't grow up in Pittsburgh, and I can tell you that I wasn't really considering Pitt as an option for my own schooling until I decided to visit in person. Once I visited, Pitt went to the top of my list.

I do think facilities play a decent role. It's clear that they were not up to the standard of our ACC peers when Capel was hired, and it took until the ~2020 class to get those basic upgrades finished. What did we see in 2020? A really solid recruiting class. Then in 2021, the class isn't up to the standard that we saw in 2018, 2019, 2020, and now in 2022. I don't think it's a coincidence that now that kids can visit, we've returned back to the general standard that we've seen for the remainder of Capel's tenure here. Facilities are a part of that, for sure, and it's really hard to show recruits how you've improved the facilities if you can't get them on campus.

But make no mistake, Capel has been selling Pitt just as much as he's selling the facilities improvements - we see recruits talking about the Cathedral almost as much as you see them talking about the Pete...and it seems to me like the basketball recruits are talking about the Pitt campus more than the football recruits tend to (though I could be wrong there).

 

[gary2]

C'mon man. You're using the one-man 2021 class? Why not use the top-25 ranked 2022 class?

Even broader, you know as well as I do that if Narduzzi signed a kid with Santos' profile - a top 250 kid who was at one point ranked in the top 75, there would be people (including probably yourself) falling all over themselves praising Narduzzi for it. We've got people over on the football board crowing about Narduzzi's recruiting classes filled with kids who are much, much, much less highly-regarded than Santos.

If Capel takes any recruit now, I will be happy with it. I will trust the staff.

There are no reaches as this point. if we take someone now, we really want them.

 

[Karaoke Jim]

If Capel takes any recruit now, I will be happy with it. I will trust the staff.

There are no reaches as this point. if we take someone now, we really want them.

The last thing I would do is “Trust This Staff”…

look at Capel’s last 5 seasons as Head Coach..

 

[gary2]

The last thing I would do is “Trust This Staff”…

look at Capel’s last 5 seasons as Head Coach..

He gets the exact same benefit of the doubt here I give Narduzzi.

 

[Ski11585]

I didn't grow up in Pittsburgh, and I can tell you that I wasn't really considering Pitt as an option for my own schooling until I decided to visit in person. Once I visited, Pitt went to the top of my list.

I do think facilities play a decent role. It's clear that they were not up to the standard of our ACC peers when Capel was hired, and it took until the ~2020 class to get those basic upgrades finished. What did we see in 2020? A really solid recruiting class. Then in 2021, the class isn't up to the standard that we saw in 2018, 2019, 2020, and now in 2022. I don't think it's a coincidence that now that kids can visit, we've returned back to the general standard that we've seen for the remainder of Capel's tenure here. Facilities are a part of that, for sure, and it's really hard to show recruits how you've improved the facilities if you can't get them on campus.

But make no mistake, Capel has been selling Pitt just as much as he's selling the facilities improvements - we see recruits talking about the Cathedral almost as much as you see them talking about the Pete...and it seems to me like the basketball recruits are talking about the Pitt campus more than the football recruits tend to (though I could be wrong there).

Hey. I did grow up in Pittsburgh and wasn't interested in Pitt as an option until I visited in person.

 

[lilspainishflea]

Narduzzi takes 10 wildcard 2 stars and one turns into Patrick Jones and everyone excuses being 18-17 against FBS competition in years 4/5/6 as not mediocre. It’s insane how punch drunk Pitt fans are from a debacle of a decade ago.

Were people at the 51-6 embarrassment or did they watch the 8 yard passing game or the 45-3 drubbing in Heinz just last year? He’s got more clunkers than miracle wins.

To be fair, Narduzzi has hit on a lot of non-specialist 2-stars, way more than just Patrick Jones:

2015
Dane Jackson (All ACC-2nd, 7th round pick)
Ben DiNucci
Rafael Araujuo-Lopes (led team in receptions for two consecutive years)
Gentry Ivery
Allen Edwards

2016
Patrick Jones (All ACC-1st, All ACC-2nd, 3rd round pick)
Elias Reynolds
Rashad Weaver (All-America, 1st, Bednarick semifinalist, 4th round pick)

2017
Owen Drexel

2018
None

2019
Sirvocea Dennis (All ACC-3rd)
Nate Temple

I'm not doing 2020 since it's so soon.

So Narduzzi has sent 3 two-star players to the NFL and 4 of them have played at very high levels at the NCAA level. Meanwhile, Capel has had 5 four-star players and has run off 3 of them while only managing to win 45% of his games. Narduzzi gets significantly more from his recruits than Capel does, both on individual and team success levels.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

It's almost as if some people think that college basketball in the 2020s isn't the same as the NFL in the late 60s - early 70s or the NFL in the 2000s or even college basketball in the early 80s.

Man, what's wrong with those people?

Coaching is coaching no matter what era or sport your in . Understanding that might just be beyond the understanding of some people .

John Belichick at 69 and Coach K at 74 seem to have no problem adapting to the changing landscapes of their sport .

The point is , which obviously went over your head , was that not every successful coach starts with instant success and giving up on anyone could be a mistake that keeps your program from ever being successful .

IMO Pitts best path to success is to stay with JC hoping that these last three yrs he’s developed some relationships that starts yielding him some higher quality recruits . Hopefully Mintz is the start of this . If I was Heather I’m giving him 2-3 more recruiting cycles before I pull the rug out from under him .

 

[Wanstash21]

To be fair, Narduzzi has hit on a lot of non-specialist 2-stars, way more than just Patrick Jones:

2015
Dane Jackson (All ACC-2nd, 7th round pick)
Ben DiNucci
Rafael Araujuo-Lopes (led team in receptions for two consecutive years)
Gentry Ivery
Allen Edwards

2016
Patrick Jones (All ACC-1st, All ACC-2nd, 3rd round pick)
Elias Reynolds
Rashad Weaver (All-America, 1st, Bednarick semifinalist, 4th round pick)

2017
Owen Drexel

2018
None

2019
Sirvocea Dennis (All ACC-3rd)
Nate Temple

I'm not doing 2020 since it's so soon.

So Narduzzi has sent 3 two-star players to the NFL and 4 of them have played at very high levels at the NCAA level. Meanwhile, Capel has had 5 four-star players and has run off 3 of them while only managing to win 45% of his games. Narduzzi gets significantly more from his recruits than Capel does, both on individual and team success levels.

are you serious? You understand that getting kids to the NBA is 100000000000000000000000x harder than getting kids to the NFL, right? Actually you don't understand, or else you wouldn't have made this post.

if we're talking strictly numbers - there are the same number of teams recruiting for D1 football as there are for D1 hoops. The pool of players each recruiting cycle, between fball and bball, is widely different.

The 300th ranked kid in football can still be a solid recruit because of the volume of players in the sport. Whereas the 300th ranked in hoops isn't very good. Again, you brought up raw numbers, so this is how we're going to look at it.

How many 4 stars has duzzi botched? how many 3 stars has duzzi botched?

Narduzzi has had thousands of kids come through his program - he's put only a handful of undervalued kids in the NFL? That's not something to write home about. Capel has had 3 classes come through Pitt and put a 3 star in the NBA.. that, on the other hand, is pretty incredible.

the idea you're actually trying to argue this point, from this angle, is outrageous.

 

[TD_6082]

C'mon man. You're using the one-man 2021 class? Why not use the top-25 ranked 2022 class?

Even broader, you know as well as I do that if Narduzzi signed a kid with Santos' profile - a top 250 kid who was at one point ranked in the top 75, there would be people (including probably yourself) falling all over themselves praising Narduzzi for it. We've got people over on the football board crowing about Narduzzi's recruiting classes filled with kids who are much, much, much less highly-regarded than Santos.

I'm not one of them crowing about Narduzzi's recruiting class. It's not going to be substantially different from the typical Pitt football recruiting class to do anything more than keep Pitt in the top half of the league. I'm sure he will sign a solid class, but it's probably not going to be on par with Clemson, FSU, UNC, Miami, or probably even an NC State.

You're talking class of 22 when this is still 2021. Most of those teams only have one or two commitments for 22. Pitt has one and he's rated around 100.

 

[lilspainishflea]

are you serious? You understand that getting kids to the NBA is 100000000000000000000000x harder than getting kids to the NFL, right? Actually you don't understand, or else you wouldn't have made this post.

if we're talking strictly numbers - there are the same number of teams recruiting for D1 football as there are for D1 hoops. The pool of players each recruiting cycle, between fball and bball, is widely different.

The 300th ranked kid in football can still be a solid recruit because of the volume of players in the sport. Whereas the 300th ranked in hoops isn't very good. Again, you brought up raw numbers, so this is how we're going to look at it.

How many 4 stars has duzzi botched? how many 3 stars has duzzi botched?

Narduzzi has had thousands of kids come through his program - he's put only a handful of undervalued kids in the NFL? That's not something to write home about. Capel has had 3 classes come through Pitt and put a 3 star in the NBA.. that, on the other hand, is pretty incredible.

the idea you're actually trying to argue this point, from this angle, is outrageous.

Lol you're back with the histrionics again.

I didn't say anything about the NBA and I don't even think that having a bunch of NBA talent is required for Pitt basketball to meet or exceed its goals.

What I said, plainly, if you care to re-read my post, is that Narduzzi has had more success with 2-stars than just Patrick Jones. He's actually hit on a number of them and develops them at a seemingly acceptable rate (he's turned 5/11 into college players and 4/11 into All-ACC players). Narduzzi's player development of fringe college players is fairly good, IMO.

And he's hit on maybe half of his 4-star players (Whitehead, Ford, Darrin Hall, Damar Hamlin) if you don't count the few that basically never came to college because of health or legal problems. And a few more (Royal, Hayes, Battle, Brown, Donald, Johnson) are in the pipeline. Capel has run 3 of 5 4-stars off the team, while #4 is out of basketball if he so much as coughs in front of a cop, and #5 had the worst freshman season ever if you ask BBallInsider.

And Capel wins 45% of his games and Narduzzi wins a lot more. The disparity is wider than the Titanic if you compare only ACC games.

I don't think it's really close between the two on the question of who is getting the most out of their players.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

are you serious? You understand that getting kids to the NBA is 100000000000000000000000x harder than getting kids to the NFL, right? Actually you don't understand, or else you wouldn't have made this post.

if we're talking strictly numbers - there are the same number of teams recruiting for D1 football as there are for D1 hoops. The pool of players each recruiting cycle, between fball and bball, is widely different.

The 300th ranked kid in football can still be a solid recruit because of the volume of players in the sport. Whereas the 300th ranked in hoops isn't very good. Again, you brought up raw numbers, so this is how we're going to look at it.

How many 4 stars has duzzi botched? how many 3 stars has duzzi botched?

Narduzzi has had thousands of kids come through his program - he's put only a handful of undervalued kids in the NFL? That's not something to write home about. Capel has had 3 classes come through Pitt and put a 3 star in the NBA.. that, on the other hand, is pretty incredible.

the idea you're actually trying to argue this point, from this angle, is outrageous.

Not interested in the Capel / Narduzzi pissing match, but your strictly numbers argument is stupid too. The top teams in FB are filling classes with 20-25 recruits, not 4 or 5. FB and BB are different with when kids can go pro too.

Duzz has about 3 classes you can look to to judge who he put in the NFL draft and they comprise about 63 players. You can round it up to 70 with transfers. Your claim of thousands isn't even disingenuous, it's flat out ridiculous.

So 70 players he signed or brought in and 9 have been drafted.

It's too early to judge Capel on this, and even Narduzzi for that matter since most of his kids are still in the system.

 

[Wanstash21]

Not interested in the Capel / Narduzzi pissing match, but your strictly numbers argument is stupid too. The top teams in FB are filling classes with 20-25 recruits, not 4 or 5. FB and BB are different with when kids can go pro too.

Duzz has about 3 classes you can look to to judge who he put in the NFL draft and they comprise about 63 players. You can round it up to 70 with transfers. Your claim of thousands isn't even disingenuous, it's flat out ridiculous.

So 70 players he signed or brought in and 9 have been drafted.

It's too early to judge Capel on this, and even Narduzzi for that matter since most of his kids are still in the system.

that was the whole point of my post, numb nuts. It's obviously extremely dumb and isn't tangible to look at it with raw numbers. I was humoring the other numb skull in the thread.

 

[pittchagg]

Lol you're back with the histrionics again.

I didn't say anything about the NBA and I don't even think that having a bunch of NBA talent is required for Pitt basketball to meet or exceed its goals.

What I said, plainly, if you care to re-read my post, is that Narduzzi has had more success with 2-stars than just Patrick Jones. He's actually hit on a number of them and develops them at a seemingly acceptable rate (he's turned 5/11 into college players and 4/11 into All-ACC players). Narduzzi's player development of fringe college players is fairly good, IMO. And he's hit on maybe half of his 4-star players (Whitehead, Ford, Darrin Hall, Damar Hamlin) if you don't count the few that basically never came to college because of health or legal problems. And a few more (Royal, Hayes, Battle, Brown, Donald, Johnson) are in the pipeline. Capel has run 3 of 5 4-stars off the team, while #4 is out of basketball if he so much as coughs in front of a cop, and #5 had the worst freshman season ever if you ask BBallInsider. And Capel wins 45% of his games and Narduzzi wins a lot more. The disparity is wider than the Titanic if you compare only ACC games.

I don't think it's really close between the two on the question of who is getting the most out of their players.

I think it's also fair to point out that the ACC in football is a significantly different animal than the ACC in basketball. It's an easier league in football, full stop. And it's also fair to point out that a great deal of Narduzzi's wins - his best two seasons, which were his first two - were largely built on a foundation that he did not construct. Narduzzi had quite a bit more to work with in his first handful of seasons than Capel did - and note that I'm not saying that the situation that either walked into is a valid explanation for results in 2021. But it is fair to note that Narduzzi's dropoff in year three was larger than Capel's dropoff in year three - which wasn't even really a dropoff. Narduzzi had a better year four, but we're not there yet with Capel.

I also think it's a little inaccurate to describe some of Capel's four star recruits as just guys that he's "run off the team", while describing Narduzzi's four stars as "hits." Even if Toney didn't use every year of his eligibility here, Capel hit on him and got 2.75 very solid seasons out of him (more than Champagnie). He got two solid years out of McGowens. Drumgoole was a miss. But it's too binary of an analysis to say, "this four star player transferred, so he was a miss." It's more complicated than that, and if you're going to ding Capel for four stars being run off the team with eligibility on the table, it doesn't make sense to then call Paris Ford a "hit" for Narduzzi. Same with a guy like Jeffress, who wasn't particularly good as a freshman...but he's still a guy "in the pipeline" like you credit Narduzzi for.

 

[lilspainishflea]

I think it's also fair to point out that the ACC in football is a significantly different animal than the ACC in basketball. It's an easier league in football, full stop. And it's also fair to point out that a great deal of Narduzzi's wins - his best two seasons, which were his first two - were largely built on a foundation that he did not construct. Narduzzi had quite a bit more to work with in his first handful of seasons than Capel did - and note that I'm not saying that the situation that either walked into is a valid explanation for results in 2021. But it is fair to note that Narduzzi's dropoff in year three was larger than Capel's dropoff in year three - which wasn't even really a dropoff. Narduzzi had a better year four, but we're not there yet with Capel.

I also think it's a little inaccurate to describe some of Capel's four star recruits as just guys that he's "run off the team", while describing Narduzzi's four stars as "hits." Even if Toney didn't use every year of his eligibility here, Capel hit on him and got 2.75 very solid seasons out of him (more than Champagnie). He got two solid years out of McGowens. Drumgoole was a miss. But it's too binary of an analysis to say, "this four star player transferred, so he was a miss." It's more complicated than that. Same with a guy like Jeffress, who wasn't particularly good as a freshman...but he's still a guy "in the pipeline" like you credit Narduzzi for.

It's also fair to point out that you only need 1-3 good players in basketball and maybe 7-8 guys total. So the fact that Capel won 45% of his games with 3 4-star players and a bunch of high-level 3-stars shocking.

 

[TD_6082]

Narduzzi takes 10 wildcard 2 stars and one turns into Patrick Jones and everyone excuses being 18-17 against FBS competition in years 4/5/6 as not mediocre. It’s insane how punch drunk Pitt fans are from a debacle of a decade ago.

Were people at the 51-6 embarrassment or did they watch the 8 yard passing game or the 45-3 drubbing in Heinz just last year? He’s got more clunkers than miracle wins.

Is that the goal? To have more miracle wins that clunkers? I can sit here roll off a ton of clunker games by every Pitt football HC since Jackie. A couple with Jackie on 1-loss teams.

It's competition. Embarrassing losses are part of it. 41-14 happened to a loaded Pitt team with a everything to play for. It happens. Those things have happened fairly frequently in the College Football playoffs.

At least those clunkers you cite are to name teams. He hasn't lost to Youngstown State or Akron. I remember a homecoming game in the Chryst era when GA Tech had Pitt down 28-0 before a lot of fans even got to their seats back in 2014. I think Paul Johnson's explosive offense hung 56 on the Panthers that day if I remember correctly.

 

[Wanstash21]

It's also fair to point out that you only need 1-3 good players in basketball and maybe 7-8 guys total. So the fact that Capel won 45% of his games with 3 4-star players and a bunch of high-level 3-stars shocking.

so you're saying you can win games with 1 good player and 7 guys total?

if Pitt played in a league comparable to the ACC Coastal in football, this might be true.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

that was the whole point of my post, numb nuts. It's obviously extremely dumb and isn't tangible to look at it with raw numbers. I was humoring the other numb skull in the thread.

You're humoring yourself slappy, because the whole post sucked.

 

[pittchagg]

It's also fair to point out that you only need 1-3 good players in basketball and maybe 7-8 guys total. So the fact that Capel won 45% of his games with 3 4-star players and a bunch of high-level 3-stars shocking.

I disagree with the entire premise of "only needing 1-3 good players in basketball." We've seen with this program over the past few years what having a total void at 1/5 of your starting lineup does to the results on the floor.

 

[Wanstash21]

You're humoring yourself slappy, because the whole post sucked.

must've worked since it got you worked up.

 

[TD_6082]

I disagree with the entire premise of "only needing 1-3 good players in basketball." We've seen with this program over the past few years what having a total void at 1/5 of your starting lineup does to the results on the floor.

Very true.

 

[lilspainishflea]

I disagree with the entire premise of "only needing 1-3 good players in basketball." We've seen with this program over the past few years what having a total void at 1/5 of your starting lineup does to the results on the floor.

Or maybe the "good" players that we had weren't that good?

 

[lilspainishflea]

so you're saying you can win games with 1 good player and 7 guys total?

if Pitt played in a league comparable to the ACC Coastal in football, this might be true.

Happens all the time. Purdue made the Elite 8 with just two players that scored in double figures.

 

[Wanstash21]

Happens all the time. Purdue made the Elite 8 with just two players that scored in double figures.

correct, but they were also very deep... which is where your theory is incorrect. He played 1 kid over 30 minutes.. he had a 9-10 man rotation. Not 7-8.

 

[Vader_Storm]

Happens all the time. Purdue made the Elite 8 with just two players that scored in double figures.

The PPG is irrelevant as just a single statistic. What is relevant is the efficiency metrics. The Purdue team you are referencing had 10 players over 90+ in ORTG in offensive rating and had 8 players over 110+ in ORTG which is strong. That team was very good on offense and very efficient. That team had the #4 most efficient offense in the country.

As a simple rule of thumb in college basketball.

You need 7-8 players at least 95-100+ in ORTG to have a chance at the NCAA Tournament unless you win your conference tournament. You can potentially get away with 6 if you have some star power at the top.


One of the major problems with our team last year was that our overall team "depth" last year was atrocious on offense ( it was also bad on defense). Brown was an 88, Collier a 86, Drumgoole an 82, Jeffress a 79. Those numbers are beyond bad. And for a senior like Brown, its really bad for a Power 6 player to be a senior and be that bad. Brown was the biggest liability last year on our team.

The depth next year will be substantially improved over last year. Players like Jeffress or Collier are going to need to make some significant improvements if they want to play over the new players.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

must've worked since it got you worked up.

Clearly, I'm the one that's all worked up.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

Coaching is coaching no matter what era or sport your in . Understanding that might just be beyond the understanding of some people .

If you don't think that coaching in general in 2021 is different than coaching even the same sport was 30 or 40 years ago, let alone different than coaching a different sport 30 or 40 years ago, then there certainly is something here beyond someone's understanding.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

IMO Pitts best path to success is to stay with JC hoping that these last three yrs he’s developed some relationships that starts yielding him some higher quality recruits .

And for the record, I agree with this. You have never seen me call for Capel to be fired. Coaches who don't go 0 for the conference in their second year while sleepwalking through their time should get more than a couple seasons.

Just like with football. Pat Narduzzi deserved more than a couple seasons. He's had them. He is what he is. If you like the seasons that he has given Pitt then you should want him to stay forever, because at this point it's pretty clear what he is. I think it is still possible that Capel can give us more than he has to date (and god, do I hope that he does). How much more and how likely that is in my opinion remains to be seen.

 

[TD_6082]

And for the record, I agree with this. You have never seen me call for Capel to be fired. Coaches who don't go 0 for the conference in their second year while sleepwalking through their time should get more than a couple seasons.

Just like with football. Pat Narduzzi deserved more than a couple seasons. He's had them. He is what he is. If you like the seasons that he has given Pitt then you should want him to stay forever, because at this point it's pretty clear what he is. I think it is still possible that Capel can give us more than he has to date (and god, do I hope that he does). How much more and how likely that is in my opinion remains to be seen.

Pitt could always make another coaching change in football. I don't think it would do much of anything positive for the program. They would most likely take a step back before slowly building to about what they are now.. Because Pitt can't recruit at a high level in football, the program has a ceiling that it reached with Walt, Wanny, and now Duzzi.

It is what it is.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

It is what it is.

Certainly, as long as you continue to employ mediocre coaches you should absolutely expect mediocre results.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

If you don't think that coaching in general in 2021 is different than coaching even the same sport was 30 or 40 years ago, let alone different than coaching a different sport 30 or 40 years ago, then there certainly is something here beyond someone's understanding.

Of course there’s a difference in just about every job from thirty or forty yrs ago , but I’m not suggesting an 85 yr old man becomes a D1 or NFL coach .

I’d sure take a 35 yr old Chuck Noll or a 35 yr old bb coach from Army as my HC today if I could . If I was smart I’d stick with both coaches even if they struggled while they got their footings .

Do not confuse this with me suggesting that JC will have a career similar to those two HOF coaches , but Heathers correct in staying the course .

 

[Fsgolfdr]

Certainly, as long as you continue to employ mediocre coaches you should absolutely expect mediocre results.

When you hire mediocre coaches with limited budgets and no booster involvement you get what Pitt is …mediocre .

 

[TD_6082]

Certainly, as long as you continue to employ mediocre coaches you should absolutely expect mediocre results.

It's the Jimmys and Joes. LSU replaced Nick Saban with a f***ing idiot and still won a Natty. Then they replaced that f***ing idiot with a bigger f***ing idiot and he also won a Natty.

A great coach would only win 7 to 9 games max at Pitt, maybe 10 on rare occasion when the stars aligned, because 7 or 8 Saturdays out of the year, they would be stepping on the field against a team with equal or better talent.

What great coach wins consistently at a high level in a P5 conference school that can't sign top 15 type clssses?

 

[pittchagg]

It's the Jimmys and Joes. LSU replaced Nick Saban with a f***ing idiot and still won a Natty. Then they replaced that f***ing idiot with a bigger f***ing idiot and he also won a Natty.

A great coach would only win 7 to 9 games max at Pitt, maybe 10 on rare occasion when the stars aligned, because 7 or 8 Saturdays out of the year, they would be stepping on the field against a team with equal or better talent.

What great coach wins consistently at a high level in a P5 conference school that can't sign top 15 type clssses?

People aren’t gonna like this answer, but Paul Chryst fits your question.

 

[TD_6082]

People aren’t gonna like this answer, but Paul Chryst fits your question.

That's a good answer pittchagg. And we saw what Chryst did at Pitt

Wisconsin is an anomaly. Gary Anderson won 19 games there in 2 years and Brett Bielema won 3 straight B1G titles there. And I think its safe to say none of those guys are great coaches.

I think the example of Wisconsin still backs up my point though. Their success isn't the result of any kind of superior coaching. Wisconsin is probably the only P5 school that doesn't consistently recruit at a high level that still steps out on the field with more talent than their opponents 9 or 10 Saturdays out of the year. In fact, the talent level of the opponent is the exact reason Brett Bielema was 3-0 in B1G Championship games and Paul Chryst is 0-3.

 

[Fsgolfdr]

That's a good answer pittchagg. And we saw what Chryst did at Pitt

Wisconsin is an anomaly. Gary Anderson won 19 games there in 2 years and Brett Bielema won 3 straight B1G titles there. And I think its safe to say none of those guys are great coaches.

I think the example of Wisconsin still backs up my point though. Their success isn't the result of any kind of superior coaching. Wisconsin is probably the only P5 school that doesn't consistently recruit at a high level that still steps out on the field with more talent than their opponents 9 or 10 Saturdays out of the year. In fact, the talent level of the opponent is the exact reason Brett Bielema was 3-0 in B1G Championship games and Paul Chryst is 0-3.

There is no coach who wins without talent . A great coach takes great talent and wins championships with them .

 

[thebadby2]

Oats, Musselman, and Enfield are 3 guys that were mentioned for the job that I’d have preferred over Hurley. They have actually produced results. UConn basketball is a brand. Acting like it is some miracle that Hurley is 50-37 is laughable.

Something tells me that Hurley will stand the test of time a lot better than Oats. Oats has flash in the pan written all over him. Just a feeling I have.

 

[TheSpecialSauce]

Hurley - Has a .586 winning % and made the NCAA tournament 3 times in 11 seasons. 1 conference coach of the year honor.

Oats - Has a .680 winning % and made the NCAA tournament 4 times in 6 seasons. 3 times conference coach of the year.