That makes sense. Agree, Toney should’ve been jacked up against the wall by Capel and ripped a new asshole and X and Trey should know Capel has their back. But you don’t shut down over something like that, you make it through the craziness.
McGowens
- Thread starter HAIL2PITT24
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Sorry but I can’t agree with you here. It is one of a coach’s primary tasks for success, building a ‘team’ environment. So yeah, a large part of the blame if not most goes to the coach.
Not even remotely similar to what we’re talking about here w/r to Pitt.UVa, UNC, Duke, & FSU all send their greetings from 2019!
It depends on the situation. I actually witnessed a pretty heated verbal altercation at a team meeting a few months ago. In that circumstance, I 100% blamed the manager. There were several opportunities for him to step in and quash the beef and he just sat their with a panicked look on his face and let it escalate.
To take a step back - I don't necessarily disagree with you in theory. I do think transfers are out of control and that, to an extent, perhaps players could tough it out in some circumstances. But I also don't want to default to blaming players or accusing them of being soft. We don't know the exact specifics of what happened. Maybe the situation between Trey and Toney has become untenable and there's no possible resolution. If that's the case, do we really want those players to stick around at the risk of it destroying team chemistry? Perhaps Capel should have done more to quash the beef. We don't know. But if the players involved truly feel like the situation won't work anymore, I'd rather they move on and find a better fit than drag down the team for the sake of toughing it out.
Is it certain it was after the win? I heard it was after practice two days before.
I am a big HCJC supporter, but he is absolutely responsible for the normative system of his team, that is the least appreciated and perhaps most important responsibility for any high level head coach.
Just hate that it seems to have spun out this way. These guys had (hopefully most still have) a chance to get the program turned around and build a legacy as the guys who came in and did it, like BK and company did ...
Just hate that it seems to have spun out this way. These guys had (hopefully most still have) a chance to get the program turned around and build a legacy as the guys who came in and did it, like BK and company did ...
That is kind of where I am -- NONE of us know what Capel did or didn't do but he can't stop people from acting on their impulse and stop the punch from being thrown is what I meant by the coach not being able to be in control of EVERYTHING. What he does after is his job and I think that is why Murphy is going and if Trey or Toney leaves or stays that is based on what the coaches did or didn't do and time will tell.
It's like saying the Pirates' and Nationals' seasons both ended this past year, so they must be in the same predicament.
Brown is not going to change. He is what he is. Has some limited skills but lacks consistent intensity. That is not something you learn. You either have it or you don't and he does not. Doesn't mean he is a bad person but he will never have that intangible.
Is it good or bad that we have heard nothing on Trey/Audiese?
I am guessing Justin/X made their announcements due to the fact that they knew they were coming back and got sick of over aggressive fans tweeting at them and their families.
I lean towards them staying as if they had their minds made up they transfer, I think a longer time window leans toward them staying. I think we are a better team in the short and long term with both of them staying here.
Unless it is a college related thing I think Trey stays, his dad is a coach and he was the first to commit here, I don't think he will leave due to personality disputes or perceived loss of playing time. The family doesn't seem that way based on what the limited information I have read on his family.
Who knows but again I hope they both stick around.
I am guessing Justin/X made their announcements due to the fact that they knew they were coming back and got sick of over aggressive fans tweeting at them and their families.
I lean towards them staying as if they had their minds made up they transfer, I think a longer time window leans toward them staying. I think we are a better team in the short and long term with both of them staying here.
Unless it is a college related thing I think Trey stays, his dad is a coach and he was the first to commit here, I don't think he will leave due to personality disputes or perceived loss of playing time. The family doesn't seem that way based on what the limited information I have read on his family.
Who knows but again I hope they both stick around.
Welcome to 2020 where kids are being advised to run to a new opportunity when the opportunity availed to you serves its purpose or runs its proverbial course. I 100% agree with your earlier posts but social media, crazy helicopter parents and the devil that is AAU hoops has really molded the current kid into a spoiled, entitled, I want it right now player. Problem is 95% of the kids who enter college aren’t one n done elite players and must learn how to get along w their teammates and accept coaching and hard love from a staff that spent years prior wooing them with platitudes. Lots and lots of great Pitt teams had warriors who fought in practice but were blood brothers when the game tipped off. Every great team needs warriors who uphold the culture when the coaches aren’t around. Problem is this current roster has older players who are either too soft to step up or not skilled enough to make younger more talented players listen. Let’s give Jeff the offseason to continue to build. No one including HCJC ever said it was gonna be easy. H2P!
Generally with these things, the less we hear, the better.
I'm not talking about exploitation of anybody. I'm also not suggesting anybody's leaving the program because of the losing. I'd like to know where you detected anything of that in anything I've ever posted. As my old man used to tell me, if something is making you chronically unhappy, make a change. I don't know what's going on with McGowans and Toney. You certainly don't. Nobody outside their inner circles does. That disqualifies all of us from making statements about honor, nutting up, etc.
maybe Capel's way of squashing the beef is telling one or the other to hit the road. You can't force anyone to leave.. but you sorta can by your actions.
Since no one but those on the inside knows for sure the dynamics of the situation, I find it hard to blame one side. It may have been a long standing problem that continued to be unresolved because some players would not give up the ball (which appeared like a year long problem to a lot of fans) that had a negative effective on the offense, particularly in light of the need for transition points, on a team whose 1/2 court offense was noticeably horrible. Teammates don't always agree on what is causing undesirable results and some even want to win on a consistent basis.
I heard the actual fight came after the Clemson game. Maybe an argument ensued in the locker room about "being looked off" after the win against GTECH, but the physical fight, I was told, happened after the Clemson game.
My connect has several friends ON THE TEAM . I've been told many TRUTHS about what went on and when WAY before anyone else, even the newshounds or when announcements were made; suspensions, probation, fights, transfers, etc.
AAU isn’t “the Devil”. For every kid it entitles, it gives another 10 the chance to play college ball because they get in front of the right eyes and/or receive instruction they may not have access. These kids, largely, aren’t from the suburbs where they have access to gyms, equipment, training, etc. Not every kid has a “handler” or “a camp” with their hands out. Some do, most don’t. Are parents crazy? Sure. A lot of times they’re just misguided. They want their son to get a shot or get the best shot and most have no clue what that entails because kids at this level don’t come around every day. You need an AAU coach or a HS coach to help honestly advise these families, otherwise the transfer thing would be even worse. The system isn’t perfect. As the money has gone thru the roof over the last 25 years, some ugly people have profited. The cash thrown around at the highest levels will make your head spin. That said, if you go to these tourneys, watch the teams who aren’t rolling in with a film crew or a shoe posse. Some honest to goodness coaching takes place at that level and it truly helps a ton of kids
Totally possible. And I’m not even necessarily blaming Capel. I’m just pushing back against this boomer mentality that Trey or Toney or whomever must be a pussy for wanting to transfer and should just suck it up.
Not disputing your post - I was mostly talking about the upper levels you mentioned - ugly stuff - thanks for sharing - H2P!
Coaches can take the ship back so they can force you to leave at anytime. They don't like to do so but it happens all the time in football.
Because of what I observed throughout the season, I have defended Toney in this because I saw really bad transition /distribution play from Trey and X from the beginning . X seemed to improve. When once again things failed to change, words lead to a physical confrontation, and that was that. Toney had the backing of several other players in believing open players were being ignored and this was hurting the team. It was not some isolated rant by Toney because he wasn't getting the ball enough one night
Ok, on a scale of 1 to 10, 1 = not close to the true scenario, and 10 being, "yeah pretty much". How did I score? Of course I have zero, 0, knowledge about any of it, only observable behavior during games.
No one wants the team dragged down. My guess, the players would be jazzed if Trey and Toney did stay. The point here is the very last option that should be in their playbook is transferring. Yet, massive transferring is going on that’s exceeded all levels of reason because it’s trotted out and floated as an option in every circumstance. Couple that with the crowd around them that advises and handles them, to whom they are money, cash, or capital cows for their own life and you’ve got a situation where guys bail a lot easier than they should. Gotta believe this is a big piece of that and very little tap the brakes advice is being offered and I’m saying it’s their responsibility to play this out the right way before just jumping ship.
Let me say this. I've never seen so much poor/selfish decision making on the fast break, penetration in my life as a Pitt fan. I've also never seen such poor inside play or outside shooting. That being said, I think you are in the 7-9.5 range.
Thanks, I am going to move on, as it really does seem like the team really is a bunch of good kids and as has been mentioned, stuff happens when a bunch of competitive 18-19 year old men spend so much time together...I hope Toney stays...
Unless his attitude is truly toxic and he is creating a long term chemistry problem, I hope Trey stays as well.
I recently made a Pitt sports account on Twitter. Just for fun nothing serious. Just my thoughts and such. @PittsburghInsid Thank you!
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