ADVERTISEMENT

Miami Game & Other Dribbles ...

I find it strange that you seem to want to discuss everything except the details of what I asked you about.


That's OK, the rest of us find it strange that you clearly want to say something, and yet at the same time clearly don't want to, well, be clear about what you want to say. I assume because you don't think that most people will agree with you.

Just come right out and say that you think that Capel screwed up and make your argument as to why rather than trying to get people to make your points for you. My guess is that you'll get a lot more discussion about what you want to say, although maybe not the affirmation that you seem to really hope to get.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThePanthers
** I thought trying to make sense of this game is going to be a difficult task. After all, it was one of the stranger Pitt contests I’ve ever watched.

** I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a 16-0 lead to start the game erased within the first half followed by a 20 point lead knocked down to 4 in the second half.

** And who else would have predicted that we wouldn’t even see Johnson or Lykes at all for the second half of the second period?

** But then, if one ignores the runs and the point guard minutes, the final box score of the game tells a fairly typical tale.

** At the end of this one, an 8 point loss at Miami seems about right for the Panthers at this point.

** It also seems about right that when we shoot 36% from the floor and 3-16 from three, that we are going to score in the 50’s. That’s not enough.

** That’s the story to this game in my opinion. One could look at many reasons why we lost. Deficits, turnovers, bad shots, and getting stops in the final minutes -- they all mattered. But the one that mattered most is the simplest and most obvious. We just can’t hit enough shots.

** Before looking further into that reality, let give some real credit where credit is due. Terrell Brown and Au’Diese Toney both played really, really well.

** AD scrapped and fought during every second he was on the court. He made a couple of plays that displayed a certain sense of desperation for the Panther win.

** And when did Terrell become such a stellar finisher in the paint?

** Those two made up the Panther bench contributions for the day. The starters shot a combined 12-51 from the floor. That’s 23.5% for those who don’t want to do the math. That’s how a team loses.

** Sure, I would have liked to see what would have happened had Trey had passed to Ryan open on the wing when the Panthers were only down four at the five minute mark. Instead, Trey over penetrated and made a terrible pass out for a turnover and an easy Miami bucket.

** In fact, it wasn’t just a turnover. It was the turning point.

** But to completely see it as such, it means an assumption that Ryan’s going to hit that shot. And it’s not as if Ryan was sizzling with his jump shot.

** Trey made another play down the stretch when he took it himself when looking for others. He does that too often, but I find it hard to call out Trey to loudly. With his 18 points and 7 assists, Trey’s efforts resulted in 33 Panther points, well over half of our output.

** Trey shot a not-very-good 6-16 from the floor. That means a dismal 6-35 from Champagnie, Johnson, Murphy and Hamilton.

** I just don’t know what to say about Justin. He’s started out other games this year but missing chunks of jump shots, only to hit some that really mattered down the stretch. But 3-16 really hurt the team today. We need him to be an aggressive scorer. But he also needs to learn how to pass. He’s got just 7 assists all season long.

** I’ll lay off Xavier. My only comment is that Coach Capel made the right substitutions in the final 14 minutes of the game.

** And I’ll lay off the Panthers from for any further criticism. This isn’t a bad loss. But it also feels a little like something of a lost opportunity.

** For the Panthers to make anything out of this season, they are running out of opportunities to lose.
No for me it was a bad loss. When your team allows a not that good opponent to go on 2 HUGE runs(1 in each half) you are pretty much conceeding the game at that point. When Pitt narrowed the gap twice they showed they could have definitely beat this team. Unfortunately the effort wasn't there for long stretches and the defense was very hit and miss. I consider this a bad loss because they came out and spotted Miami a 15-0 lead. That's bad all the way around. And imo there is no excuse for that.
 
That's OK, the rest of us find it strange that you clearly want to say something, and yet at the same time clearly don't want to, well, be clear about what you want to say. I assume because you don't think that most people will agree with you.

Just come right out and say that you think that Capel screwed up and make your argument as to why rather than trying to get people to make your points for you. My guess is that you'll get a lot more discussion about what you want to say, although maybe not the affirmation that you seem to really hope to get.
I think I did indicate Capel screwed up. I thought that was quite clear.

I also suggested specifically what I would have done.

I clearly indicated my feeling that other coaches would have coached the last 8 minutes differently than Capel did.

I merely asked DT what "he" thought of it. The post replied to DT, but I certainly welcome any comment.

Are we clear?
 
Let's face it, we are a bod offensive team. When we hit shots, we can hang with or beat just about everyone. When we don't, we aren't going to win many games.

You are correct that it wasn't a bad loss, just a lost opportunity.

I think Capel blew a great opportunity to give the defense a chance to win this for us. We should have had an all out press the last 8 minutes of the game. I can't believe he only used token pressure.
Agree - I think Miami has more talent than us, but when Lykes went out with over 8 minutes left (even down what we were down), I thought we had a real chance to win.
 
No for me it was a bad loss. When your team allows a not that good opponent to go on 2 HUGE runs(1 in each half) you are pretty much conceeding the game at that point. When Pitt narrowed the gap twice they showed they could have definitely beat this team. Unfortunately the effort wasn't there for long stretches and the defense was very hit and miss. I consider this a bad loss because they came out and spotted Miami a 15-0 lead. That's bad all the way around. And imo there is no excuse for that.
Cmon Poker ... to you EVERYTHING is a bad loss!! ;)
 
Totally agree. Do you see him as being a stretch 4 during his career at Pitt? I would really like that. Especially if Drumgoole could capture the 3 spot at some point. I think Drumgoole is going to surprise ppl next year.
He’s playing stretch (perimeter) four now, would you agree?
 
I think I did indicate Capel screwed up. I thought that was quite clear.

I also suggested specifically what I would have done.

I clearly indicated my feeling that other coaches would have coached the last 8 minutes differently than Capel did.

I merely asked DT what "he" thought of it. The post replied to DT, but I certainly welcome any comment.

Are we clear?
What I thought of it was you are reaching.
 
  • Like
Reactions: ThePanthers
Agree - I think Miami has more talent than us, but when Lykes went out with over 8 minutes left (even down what we were down), I thought we had a real chance to win.

Maybe this is where we disagree, I thought Pitt had much more talent then they had, we didn’t put it together. We have our holes, no doubt, but we have more talent than they have!
 
  • Like
Reactions: CapelsCranberryz
Let's face it, we are a bod offensive team. When we hit shots, we can hang with or beat just about everyone. When we don't, we aren't going to win many games.

You are correct that it wasn't a bad loss, just a lost opportunity.

I think Capel blew a great opportunity to give the defense a chance to win this for us. We should have had an all out press the last 8 minutes of the game. I can't believe he only used token pressure.
They were exhausted
 
I know DT didn’t get into X today, but for everyone wishing him away just be careful what you wish for. I still see a highly talented, dynamic point guard who is just having a bad season. He is still young and has a ton of pressure on him as guy who has to play well or his team doesn’t have a chance to win most nights. That said, I along with everyone else had huge hopes for X this season so it’s no doubt disappointing the way he is playing.
Are there rumblings that he may leave, ie transfer? Obviously not to the NBA like we all thought 2 months ago.

He clearly is in a sophomore slump, let’s just hope he finds a way to put it back together.
 
Forgetting about talent for the momement:

We do not move or share the ball enough. Selfish or poor vision, it needs to improve.

We dribble too much, often ending in a dead end.

We take too many shots off balance, at strange angles that it is hard to envision them having a chance at going in. Work for and recognize a good shot.

We need to score off our defense. Sometimes our coach doesn't seem to realize that.

We have guys playing too many consecutive minutes. Coach needs to do a better job at stealing a breather now and then.

Scoring off of our defense seems to be a problem with this Pitt team at times. Sometimes we do it and we win. When we don't do it, we lose. Capel gives it lip service but it doesn't seem to be sinking in. Defense or lack of it is the single most important factor when we lose. And funny thing....when we play good defense and make key stops or cause turnovers, we shoot well most of the time.

I also agree that distributing the ball better and ball movement is lacking. Way too much dribbling around and getting nowhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: gary2
You are reaching to come up with Capel criticisms.

Offering criticism of Capel is pretty easy. His team is terribly inconsistent and does not move the ball well on offense. Because of this, they do not execute well, especially when they need to.

However, to try to come up with some shortcoming in his coaching after Lykes went down seems a little silly to me.

Heck, if anything, why not try to figure out what he did wrong to start the game to let Miami take a 16-0 lead? Or perhaps, what went wrong to let Miami go up by 20.

That's easy. We didn't play defense to the degree we need to, if at all. This team is very inconsistent defensively. If we can't do that, we won't win many games.
 
It took us nearly 3 years to win an ACC road game. To win back to back after that abysmal stretch would have been a hell of an accomplishment.

It was a tough loss but they will rebound. I will say I am very concerned with the start of games/halves. Seems like we come out slow often in one or both very frequently. UNC was not a great start but we came back.

X will rebound. I don’t like this quick turnaround from a Sunday second straight on the road to Tuesday at home. Hope they can pull it out.
 
Thank god there was too much going on at the same time. But my biggest takeaway is Miami should be banned from playing in a place so dark and foreboding.
 
This was the problem IMO.

All I heard from the announcers prior to the game was PITT had a plan to stop/limit one Miami player.
Keep him out of the paint was what the announcers said Capel told them.
So Capel reconfigured the defense to deal with this guy and he started the game with this plan.

Bad idea!

PITT is good enough to play their game out of the gate.
If that one great player becomes a problem, put the plan in place at that time.

The plan to limit that one Miami guy IMO got the team off to a bad start.

Play your game.
Make adjustments if necessary during the game?
Don't make adjustments before the game starts to deal with a problem that hasn't happened!
 
Last edited:
I don't know how anyone has issues with how they played overall at the end of the game. The issue should focus on why they come out so flat.
 
Maybe this is where we disagree, I thought Pitt had much more talent then they had, we didn’t put it together. We have our holes, no doubt, but we have more talent than they have!
Does Pitt really have more talent than any other ACC level team ?

As of now they are a very poor shooting and rebounding team that’s very easy to defend not sure you can expect them just to beat any conference foe without playing well.
 
Does Pitt really have more talent than any other ACC level team ?

As of now they are a very poor shooting and rebounding team that’s very easy to defend not sure you can expect them just to beat any conference foe without playing well.

This is pretty much it ...
 
  • Like
Reactions: CapelsCranberryz
** I thought trying to make sense of this game is going to be a difficult task. After all, it was one of the stranger Pitt contests I’ve ever watched.

** I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a 16-0 lead to start the game erased within the first half followed by a 20 point lead knocked down to 4 in the second half.

** And who else would have predicted that we wouldn’t even see Johnson or Lykes at all for the second half of the second period?

** But then, if one ignores the runs and the point guard minutes, the final box score of the game tells a fairly typical tale.

** At the end of this one, an 8 point loss at Miami seems about right for the Panthers at this point.

** It also seems about right that when we shoot 36% from the floor and 3-16 from three, that we are going to score in the 50’s. That’s not enough.

** That’s the story to this game in my opinion. One could look at many reasons why we lost. Deficits, turnovers, bad shots, and getting stops in the final minutes -- they all mattered. But the one that mattered most is the simplest and most obvious. We just can’t hit enough shots.

** Before looking further into that reality, let give some real credit where credit is due. Terrell Brown and Au’Diese Toney both played really, really well.

** AD scrapped and fought during every second he was on the court. He made a couple of plays that displayed a certain sense of desperation for the Panther win.

** And when did Terrell become such a stellar finisher in the paint?

** Those two made up the Panther bench contributions for the day. The starters shot a combined 12-51 from the floor. That’s 23.5% for those who don’t want to do the math. That’s how a team loses.

** Sure, I would have liked to see what would have happened had Trey had passed to Ryan open on the wing when the Panthers were only down four at the five minute mark. Instead, Trey over penetrated and made a terrible pass out for a turnover and an easy Miami bucket.

** In fact, it wasn’t just a turnover. It was the turning point.

** But to completely see it as such, it means an assumption that Ryan’s going to hit that shot. And it’s not as if Ryan was sizzling with his jump shot.

** Trey made another play down the stretch when he took it himself when looking for others. He does that too often, but I find it hard to call out Trey to loudly. With his 18 points and 7 assists, Trey’s efforts resulted in 33 Panther points, well over half of our output.

** Trey shot a not-very-good 6-16 from the floor. That means a dismal 6-35 from Champagnie, Johnson, Murphy and Hamilton.

** I just don’t know what to say about Justin. He’s started out other games this year but missing chunks of jump shots, only to hit some that really mattered down the stretch. But 3-16 really hurt the team today. We need him to be an aggressive scorer. But he also needs to learn how to pass. He’s got just 7 assists all season long.

** I’ll lay off Xavier. My only comment is that Coach Capel made the right substitutions in the final 14 minutes of the game.

** And I’ll lay off the Panthers from for any further criticism. This isn’t a bad loss. But it also feels a little like something of a lost opportunity.

** For the Panthers to make anything out of this season, they are running out of opportunities to lose.
Champagnie is a freshman and freshmen are usually inconsistent. He will be a good one. As far as the Trey non pass to Murph, maybe Murph doesn't make the shot, but it would have been a non contested shot and it wouldn't have resulted in a back breaking layup the other way.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TreesHero and gary2
Champagnie is a freshman and freshmen are usually inconsistent. He will be a good one. .
I tend to agree with you , but let’s not forget that everyone expected X , Trey and Toney to make significant improvements this season .
 
I tend to agree with you , but let’s not forget that everyone expected X , Trey and Toney to make significant improvements this season .
i think, for the most part, Trey and Toney are playing well.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TWPitt
This was the problem IMO.

All I heard from the announcers prior to the game was PITT had a plan to stop/limit one Miami player.
Keep him out of the paint was what the announcers said Capel told them.
So Capel reconfigured the defense to deal with this guy and he started the game with this plan.

Bad idea!

PITT is good enough to play their game out of the gate.
If that one great player becomes a problem, put the plan in place at that time.

The plan to limit that one Miami guy IMO got the team off to a bad start.

Play your game.
Make adjustments if necessary during the game?
Don't make adjustments before the game starts to deal with a problem that hasn't happened!

And that caused Pitt to go SCORELESS for nearly the first 7 minutes of the game? Quite an interesting hypothesis. Just don't think the loss can be attributed to any 1 certain issue, player, decision or oversimplification.

Right now, Pitt's primary problems appear to center around periods (sometimes extended ones) of wildly inconsistent and unpredictable play. And with the makeup of the roster at present, just subbing in players off the bench isn't necessarily going to correct the problems during a particular game, because it's quite possible the guys subbing in will play just as inconsistently.

It can be frustrating for everyone. Fans and - even more so - especially coaches and the players themselves. Continuous improvement and recruiting players who can play better and more consistently vs the level of competition in the ACC is the answer. My belief is they're working on that and trying to accomplish it as soon as reasonably possible. But with this roster right now, they're not there yet. So I'm expecting the roller coaster ride to keep rolling for a while. More UPS and DOWNS very likely on the way! But hopeful that there are still going to be many performances that justify cause for optimism for the rest of this season.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: TWPitt
** I thought trying to make sense of this game is going to be a difficult task. After all, it was one of the stranger Pitt contests I’ve ever watched.

** I’m not sure I’ve ever seen a 16-0 lead to start the game erased within the first half followed by a 20 point lead knocked down to 4 in the second half.

** And who else would have predicted that we wouldn’t even see Johnson or Lykes at all for the second half of the second period?

** But then, if one ignores the runs and the point guard minutes, the final box score of the game tells a fairly typical tale.

** At the end of this one, an 8 point loss at Miami seems about right for the Panthers at this point.

** It also seems about right that when we shoot 36% from the floor and 3-16 from three, that we are going to score in the 50’s. That’s not enough.

** That’s the story to this game in my opinion. One could look at many reasons why we lost. Deficits, turnovers, bad shots, and getting stops in the final minutes -- they all mattered. But the one that mattered most is the simplest and most obvious. We just can’t hit enough shots.

** Before looking further into that reality, let give some real credit where credit is due. Terrell Brown and Au’Diese Toney both played really, really well.

** AD scrapped and fought during every second he was on the court. He made a couple of plays that displayed a certain sense of desperation for the Panther win.

** And when did Terrell become such a stellar finisher in the paint?

** Those two made up the Panther bench contributions for the day. The starters shot a combined 12-51 from the floor. That’s 23.5% for those who don’t want to do the math. That’s how a team loses.

** Sure, I would have liked to see what would have happened had Trey had passed to Ryan open on the wing when the Panthers were only down four at the five minute mark. Instead, Trey over penetrated and made a terrible pass out for a turnover and an easy Miami bucket.

** In fact, it wasn’t just a turnover. It was the turning point.

** But to completely see it as such, it means an assumption that Ryan’s going to hit that shot. And it’s not as if Ryan was sizzling with his jump shot.

** Trey made another play down the stretch when he took it himself when looking for others. He does that too often, but I find it hard to call out Trey to loudly. With his 18 points and 7 assists, Trey’s efforts resulted in 33 Panther points, well over half of our output.

** Trey shot a not-very-good 6-16 from the floor. That means a dismal 6-35 from Champagnie, Johnson, Murphy and Hamilton.

** I just don’t know what to say about Justin. He’s started out other games this year but missing chunks of jump shots, only to hit some that really mattered down the stretch. But 3-16 really hurt the team today. We need him to be an aggressive scorer. But he also needs to learn how to pass. He’s got just 7 assists all season long.

** I’ll lay off Xavier. My only comment is that Coach Capel made the right substitutions in the final 14 minutes of the game.

** And I’ll lay off the Panthers from for any further criticism. This isn’t a bad loss. But it also feels a little like something of a lost opportunity.

** For the Panthers to make anything out of this season, they are running out of opportunities to lose.
Joe Knew.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pitt5593
I get frustrated when Pitt shares/moves the ball well, finds the good shot, and converts, but then goes through long stretches where individuals seem to carry the team by themselves resulting in bad shots, bad passes. The end of the WF and Miami game to me were similar in that Pitt fought to get back into it, but ended with bad decisions taking themselves down more so than the other team. When they get hot and play as a team, they do well enough to be competitive. Large part of this team is still figuring it out though, and it requires patience from everybody.
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT