ADVERTISEMENT

Michigan Game & Other Dribbles ...

As for our zone D....
I watched both WVU
and Michigan spread
the floor and rotate
the ball FASTER then
our D players moved.
That's what is supposed
to happen against a
zone and they did it.
They also got the
ball into the middle..
Once those types of
things happen against
a zone, it's lights out.

To me it's very simple,
Some coaches can get
their players to do this
successfully, SOME
coaches can't. Look
at 3 pt shooting %'s.
Why were we lit up?
It's not just that they're
better shooters (which
they are).....it's also
beating the D and
getting the good looks.
Again...coaching has a
lot to do with it.
 
As for our zone D....
I watched both WVU
and Michigan spread
the floor and rotate
the ball FASTER then
our D players moved.
That's what is supposed
to happen against a
zone and they did it.
They also got the
ball into the middle..
Once those types of
things happen against
a zone, it's lights out.

To me it's very simple,
Some coaches can get
their players to do this
successfully, SOME
coaches can't. Look
at 3 pt shooting %'s.
Why were we lit up?
It's not just that they're
better shooters (which
they are).....it's also
beating the D and
getting the good looks.
Again...coaching has a
lot to do with it.

Saying a lot to do with it is an understatement. We've been consistently lit up with opponents' 3's ever since Capel has been here. Effort, coaching, preparation.
 
Realistically, isn't the JC experiment over?

We are well into the "what does it take to get fired around here" phase at this point.

How much more failure on the floor, with managing and retaining personnel, and on the recruiting trail is necessary before we move on?

It's not like Capel has built anything worth saving, this has been a ground up rebuild since the day he got the job, and it remains one 5 years later. Any improvement has been so slight and fleeting it isn't even worthy of discussion.

I'd say burn it down, but there isn't even a foundation, let alone a structure, to torch. We are still at ground zero.
 
More effort = better one on one defense, yes. But do we know that a guy like Nelly isnt playing D as hard as he can? He isnt athletic. Neither is Burton and the others. On ball defending is a problem if you arent athletic. That's why we sometimes have the "white shooter" debate on here. Some of us want that white shooter and others say we cant because they wont be able to defend anyone. How many times have we talked about Micah Mason? One of the Top 5 3 point shooters statistically in college history but couldn't defend (I'd have taken him though).

How teams overcome this is with help defense and rotations. Virginia is a master at this. OK, you got by your man, so what, now you have to beat someone else because help is right there. Rotations are on point. We dont have to be all-time great like UVa but need to be better at help/rotations than we have been
Nelly isn’t the biggest issue with defense .
You’re saying a lot of words but not giving any actual rebuttals

A great player will beat great defense (see Julius page vs Ben Gordon )
But any average player can play very solid defense with preparation and effort
This isn’t debatable - it’s simple to anyone who has ever played organized basketball or even pickup games
 
Realistically, isn't the JC experiment over?

We are well into the "what does it take to get fired around here" phase at this point.

How much more failure on the floor, with managing and retaining personnel, and on the recruiting trail is necessary before we move on?

It's not like Capel has built anything worth saving, this has been a ground up rebuild since the day he got the job, and it remains one 5 years later. Any improvement has been so slight and fleeting it isn't even worthy of discussion.

I'd say burn it down, but there isn't even a foundation, let alone a structure, to torch. We are still at ground zero.
It’s when and not if anymore
 
UVA says hello on the great lateral quickness needed to be a good defender. Defense is about want, will, scheme. Athletic ability is a helper

UVa thrives on help and rotations. They do get the most effort out of their unathletic players, yes. It takes

a) athleticism
b) effort
c) coaching/rotations/help defense

We seem to be missing all 3
 
** I thought I had a pretty fair plan.

** Because I missed the WVU game and because the result was what it was, I decided to go into this one with Michigan with a fresh perspective. I didn’t even watch my recording, and resisting reading most of the posts about the game, let alone post anything about it myself.

** After all, that game had the feel of one that got away from us somewhat, and I really didn’t think it was completely fair to begin judging this team until Big John was back.

** With this, I was actually looking forward to this one against the Wolverines. I wasn’t really expecting a win. But I was expecting a game. That wasn’t what we got.

** What we got looked like JV versus the Varsity. Or perhaps a legit P-5 team against an Atlantic Sun Conference team.

** Or maybe instead I should have said the Patriot Conference.

** When Nelly Cummings announced his commitment to Pitt, I had a conversation with a real local expert on college basketball and local talent who was less than impressed. His quote? “You recruit Colgate players, you get a Colgate team.”

** Then again, Colgate just beat Syracuse so maybe that comment set the bar too high.

** And this isn’t to single out Nelly Cummings as the reason for the Pitt loss. But it was hard not to watch him in this game today and feel he was anywhere near the level of Michigan’s guards. In short, he looked next to unable to make any impact on this game, unfortunately.

** The reality is that there wasn’t any Panther who looked like he was able to make an impact on the game, on either end of the court.

** But let’s start on the offensive end. First, Blake Hinson has come back to earth since his flashy start and has proven he not an All-American when his opponents actually guard him. He’s got to be smarter and not take contested ones that he probably can’t make.

** Greg Elliot has been competent, and looks to be an upgrade over Horton. But I think today’s performance represents his ceiling. Jamarius Burton has too often proven to be just a one on one player and Nike Sibande looks like he’s somehow lost his game, depending of course on whether or not you believe he had much to begin with. I for one thought so, and therefore I’m disappointed with what we’ve seen thus far.

** Maybe it’s fair to give Nate Santos a shout out for solid minutes, but he’s a bench player at this stage regardless.

** Big John will contribute more as he gets into better shape. But I think it’s also fair to say that the way he played today was often reminiscent in style of what we saw from John last year. So another way of saying this is that I’m not sure Big John in midseason form fairs any better on the offensive end than he did tonight.

** Yet, going over the offensive performances in this game misses the point. This game was nothing better than a failure on the defensive end.

** We looked both underprepared and unable to do anything to stop a Michigan offense which really shouldn’t be seen as a buzzsaw. Other than a little stretch in the first half when we effectively double teamed Dickinson, we almost never made anything difficult.

** And we offered basically no opposition in the second half. 53 points on 34 possessions (my quick count). That’s truly troublingly terrible.

** Our defense also seemed like a bad combination of effort and execution. The decision to go under screens allowed plenty of freedom of ball and dribble movement. We never kept dribblers in front of us, shooters were always open, and it wasn’t even because their All-American played all that well.

** I suppose all I’ve done to this point is just offer a far too wordy description of what everyone already saw. The bigger question is what does it all mean? Can we get better?

** Well, if the talent disparity is truly as much as it appeared today, that’s not a very good sign. I still have to believe there’s more to be gathered from our guys. Like we all know, Big John will still get better, and even if Nelly isn’t an ACC level starter, we also know he has it in him to play like he did against Wisconsin in last year’s NCAA tournament.

** This leaves it all up to Coach Capel. From this point on, he’s obviously coaching for his job. I have no reason to doubt his resolve. But I do doubt his ability. We haven’t seen it in his first four years here, and three contests into campaign five, one could say it looks worse.

** So any road back starts tomorrow at 7pm. My plan, like almost always, is to watch the game. I just hope this time there is a game to watch.
When you recruit Colgate players, you get a Colgate team. So well said. And for every Mo Gueye? There are 500 players who do not upgrade their game from Stoney Brook.

Then again, you also have to have coaching with a plan. Year 5? No success. No trips to any post season tournament, no finishes out of the bottom quartile of the ACC and yet not one single change in the coaching staff.

Why we thought this year would be different? "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies." But eventually hope has to lead to some positive result, an affirmation. And it is not happening.
 
On the surface, this game didn’t seem too drastically different than the WVU game - hit some shots and took an early lead, played poor defense/made it look easy for the opposition, started to lose steam and then just completely lost it in the second half. Questionable officiating in both too but I feel silly complaining about that when they get blown out like they did.
Yeah when you lose by 25 and 30 points respectively, officiating is the least of the issues.
 
Nelly isn’t the biggest issue with defense .
You’re saying a lot of words but not giving any actual rebuttals

A great player will beat great defense (see Julius page vs Ben Gordon )
But any average player can play very solid defense with preparation and effort
This isn’t debatable - it’s simple to anyone who has ever played organized basketball or even pickup games
SMF actually made a good
point about UVA, but
they're definitely more
of an exception. As far
as " an average player
playing very solid defense
with preparation and
effort".....you're 100%
correct! especially at
the college level.

Not as true on the offensive
end, but definitely true on
the defensive end. Does
anyone doubt that if say
a coach like Huggy were
coaching Pitt's current
players that we would
see these results we're
seeing defensively.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TWPitt
At this point it’s not about effort. It’s about pride and self respect. We gotta be competitive tonight.
 
When you recruit Colgate players, you get a Colgate team. So well said. And for every Mo Gueye? There are 500 players who do not upgrade their game from Stoney Brook.

Then again, you also have to have coaching with a plan. Year 5? No success. No trips to any post season tournament, no finishes out of the bottom quartile of the ACC and yet not one single change in the coaching staff.

Why we thought this year would be different? "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies." But eventually hope has to lead to some positive result, an affirmation. And it is not happening.

I really liked Mo Gueye and liked how he played for us. Still, I think it could be said just the same for last year that if you recruit Stony Brook players you get a Stony Brook team.
 
SMF actually made a good
point about UVA, but
they're definitely more
of an exception. As far
as " an average player
playing very solid defense
with preparation and
effort".....you're 100%
correct! especially at
the college level.

Not as true on the offensive
end, but definitely true on
the defensive end. Does
anyone doubt that if say
a coach like Huggy were
coaching Pitt's current
players that we would
see these results we're
seeing defensively.
100%
It’s why coaches who emphasize defense always have teams who give max effort .

You run into a Ben Gordon or Dwayne Wade- there is only so much you can do - other than containing the rest of the team
 
I really liked Mo Gueye and liked how he played for us. Still, I think it could be said just the same for last year that if you recruit Stony Brook players you get a Stony Brook team.
Was thinking more about Nelly and you mentioning his performance against Wisconsin last year where he had 20 pts, 6 rebounds and 6 assists. Skimmed through his game log out of curiosity and here are some other notables against “power conference” schools:

@ Pitt (if we even count, lol) 17 pts 3 assists
@ Syracuse 18 pts 7 assists 3 rebounds
@ NC St 19 pts 3 rebounds
Arkansas (2021 NCAAT) 14 pts 3 rebounds 4 assists

Had a few games against Syracuse, Clemson and Auburn in 2019 as well but nothing too remarkable there stat wise. 10 pts against Cuse in a loss (they beat them in the game above I mentioned).

Of course this small sample size and just showing those stats doesn’t he’ll be able to compete up to par at this level, but who knows. It’s still early in the season at least?
 
Was thinking more about Nelly and you mentioning his performance against Wisconsin last year where he had 20 pts, 6 rebounds and 6 assists. Skimmed through his game log out of curiosity and here are some other notables against “power conference” schools:

@ Pitt (if we even count, lol) 17 pts 3 assists
@ Syracuse 18 pts 7 assists 3 rebounds
@ NC St 19 pts 3 rebounds
Arkansas (2021 NCAAT) 14 pts 3 rebounds 4 assists

Had a few games against Syracuse, Clemson and Auburn in 2019 as well but nothing too remarkable there stat wise. 10 pts against Cuse in a loss (they beat them in the game above I mentioned).

Of course this small sample size and just showing those stats doesn’t he’ll be able to compete up to par at this level, but who knows. It’s still early in the season at least?
The difference is performing at that level game in and game out
We’ve played two consecutive P5 teams in a row and he was over matched substantially .
He made nice passes against a Terrible opponent but also shot badly

I’m glad he’s on the roster and it’s not his fault we have no point guards to limit his minutes
 
Was thinking more about Nelly and you mentioning his performance against Wisconsin last year where he had 20 pts, 6 rebounds and 6 assists. Skimmed through his game log out of curiosity and here are some other notables against “power conference” schools:

@ Pitt (if we even count, lol) 17 pts 3 assists
@ Syracuse 18 pts 7 assists 3 rebounds
@ NC St 19 pts 3 rebounds
Arkansas (2021 NCAAT) 14 pts 3 rebounds 4 assists

Had a few games against Syracuse, Clemson and Auburn in 2019 as well but nothing too remarkable there stat wise. 10 pts against Cuse in a loss (they beat them in the game above I mentioned).

Of course this small sample size and just showing those stats doesn’t he’ll be able to compete up to par at this level, but who knows. It’s still early in the season at least?
He probably had a better coach and supporting cast at Colgate.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Large Panther
I really liked Mo Gueye and liked how he played for us. Still, I think it could be said just the same for last year that if you recruit Stony Brook players you get a Stony Brook team.
Is that like saying when you draft a QB from a school like Miami of Ohio you get a mid major like player !

I get the point , but there’s always exceptions .
 
SMF actually made a good
point about UVA, but
they're definitely more
of an exception. As far
as " an average player
playing very solid defense
with preparation and
effort".....you're 100%
correct! especially at
the college level.

Not as true on the offensive
end, but definitely true on
the defensive end. Does
anyone doubt that if say
a coach like Huggy were
coaching Pitt's current
players that we would
see these results we're
seeing defensively.

Indeed. Defense is taught and coached. And our guys aren't being taught and coached defense at all. It's apparent. No effort, no desire to get their hands dirty. Huggy would probably have these guys playing shut down defense or they'd be benched, no matter who they were. Hugley, I'm looking at you. Same with Cummings.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chescat
When you recruit Colgate players, you get a Colgate team. So well said. And for every Mo Gueye? There are 500 players who do not upgrade their game from Stoney Brook.

Then again, you also have to have coaching with a plan. Year 5? No success. No trips to any post season tournament, no finishes out of the bottom quartile of the ACC and yet not one single change in the coaching staff.

Why we thought this year would be different? "Hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies." But eventually hope has to lead to some positive result, an affirmation. And it is not happening.

Hope is not a strategy. The problem is we heard Capel giving his speeches before the season about "hoping" this year would be better, and "hoping" they guys play better and get better results. So what's he doing about that? What results are we seeing that Capel has achieved other than more failure and lack of effort and no game preparation? I don't want to hear his excuses any longer. Produce or get the hell out of here. He's making a ton of money....millions, and should be arrested for grand theft.
 
Realistically, isn't the JC experiment over?

We are well into the "what does it take to get fired around here" phase at this point.
Indeed. There is no suspense left about the results of the JC experiment. A few games into the season we are exactly where we were one year ago, staring at another unenjoyable, losing season and wondering about the affordability of the buyout in March. You have to squint pretty hard to discern any light at all, and if there is any it's only the distant glow of Capel's employment finally being terminated at Pitt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: HailToPitt1985
Indeed. There is no suspense left about the results of the JC experiment. A few games into the season we are exactly where we were one year ago, staring at another unenjoyable, losing season and wondering about the affordability of the buyout in March. You have to squint pretty hard to discern any light at all, and if there is any it's only the distant glow of Capel's employment finally being terminated at Pitt.
Hire head coach with big time success at a lower level. Someone who has a process and a plan and knows how to get it done. Not a one year wonder bur someone who has a track record of excellence at a lower level. I’m not even talking about a mid major, I’m taking about D2. The next Bo Ryan is out there somewhere.
 
I believe I saw the Panthers play zone for at least four trips yesterday. And I seem to remember them scoring on at least two of them. That may not be correct, but I do recall thinking that we did not put up any greater opposition to Michigan playing zone than we did playing man.


Against West Virginia the zone defense would have been better if you and I had been manning two of the spots rather than what actually happened.
 
We've been consistently lit up with opponents' 3's ever since Capel has been here.


For the record, that really isn't true. We were 127th in three point field goal percentage against his first year, then 223, then 85, then 323 last season. So if you want to say we were bad at defending the three last year, sure, absolutely. But before last year we were pretty much average.
 
For the record, that really isn't true. We were 127th in three point field goal percentage against his first year, then 223, then 85, then 323 last season. So if you want to say we were bad at defending the three last year, sure, absolutely. But before last year we were pretty much average.
Let’s not have the facts get in the way of his hatred for anything Capel .
 
** I thought I had a pretty fair plan.

** Because I missed the WVU game and because the result was what it was, I decided to go into this one with Michigan with a fresh perspective. I didn’t even watch my recording, and resisting reading most of the posts about the game, let alone post anything about it myself.

** After all, that game had the feel of one that got away from us somewhat, and I really didn’t think it was completely fair to begin judging this team until Big John was back.

** With this, I was actually looking forward to this one against the Wolverines. I wasn’t really expecting a win. But I was expecting a game. That wasn’t what we got.

** What we got looked like JV versus the Varsity. Or perhaps a legit P-5 team against an Atlantic Sun Conference team.

** Or maybe instead I should have said the Patriot Conference.

** When Nelly Cummings announced his commitment to Pitt, I had a conversation with a real local expert on college basketball and local talent who was less than impressed. His quote? “You recruit Colgate players, you get a Colgate team.”

** Then again, Colgate just beat Syracuse so maybe that comment set the bar too high.

** And this isn’t to single out Nelly Cummings as the reason for the Pitt loss. But it was hard not to watch him in this game today and feel he was anywhere near the level of Michigan’s guards. In short, he looked next to unable to make any impact on this game, unfortunately.

** The reality is that there wasn’t any Panther who looked like he was able to make an impact on the game, on either end of the court.

** But let’s start on the offensive end. First, Blake Hinson has come back to earth since his flashy start and has proven he not an All-American when his opponents actually guard him. He’s got to be smarter and not take contested ones that he probably can’t make.

** Greg Elliot has been competent, and looks to be an upgrade over Horton. But I think today’s performance represents his ceiling. Jamarius Burton has too often proven to be just a one on one player and Nike Sibande looks like he’s somehow lost his game, depending of course on whether or not you believe he had much to begin with. I for one thought so, and therefore I’m disappointed with what we’ve seen thus far.

** Maybe it’s fair to give Nate Santos a shout out for solid minutes, but he’s a bench player at this stage regardless.

** Big John will contribute more as he gets into better shape. But I think it’s also fair to say that the way he played today was often reminiscent in style of what we saw from John last year. So another way of saying this is that I’m not sure Big John in midseason form fairs any better on the offensive end than he did tonight.

** Yet, going over the offensive performances in this game misses the point. This game was nothing better than a failure on the defensive end.

** We looked both underprepared and unable to do anything to stop a Michigan offense which really shouldn’t be seen as a buzzsaw. Other than a little stretch in the first half when we effectively double teamed Dickinson, we almost never made anything difficult.

** And we offered basically no opposition in the second half. 53 points on 34 possessions (my quick count). That’s truly troublingly terrible.

** Our defense also seemed like a bad combination of effort and execution. The decision to go under screens allowed plenty of freedom of ball and dribble movement. We never kept dribblers in front of us, shooters were always open, and it wasn’t even because their All-American played all that well.

** I suppose all I’ve done to this point is just offer a far too wordy description of what everyone already saw. The bigger question is what does it all mean? Can we get better?

** Well, if the talent disparity is truly as much as it appeared today, that’s not a very good sign. I still have to believe there’s more to be gathered from our guys. Like we all know, Big John will still get better, and even if Nelly isn’t an ACC level starter, we also know he has it in him to play like he did against Wisconsin in last year’s NCAA tournament.

** This leaves it all up to Coach Capel. From this point on, he’s obviously coaching for his job. I have no reason to doubt his resolve. But I do doubt his ability. We haven’t seen it in his first four years here, and three contests into campaign five, one could say it looks worse.

** So any road back starts tomorrow at 7pm. My plan, like almost always, is to watch the game. I just hope this time there is a game to watch.
Local expert my dupa
 
ADVERTISEMENT
ADVERTISEMENT