MLB Games....

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

We have discussed this before. It has been discussed ad nausea, but it is getting worse, not better. A perfect example is yesterday. The Pirates game started 55 minutes before the Penguins game. The Penguins game ended, the Pirates game was still on, just starting 9th inning. Sure, it went an extra inning (helped by the ridiculous runner on 2nd to start the game) but it is not extra innings that is the issue, it is the pace of game. It is just ridiculously slow. Almost all games are 3 1/2 to 4 hours.

This is famous, but Game 7 of the 60 series, the Pirates/Yankees, the walk off HR. The score was 10-9. I think both teams had over a dozen hits. The Pirates used 4 pitchers, the Yanks 5, so there was pitching changes. But the game took 2 hours and 36 minutes! If that would be today, the game no doubt would be over 4 hours. It is more than just shifts, it is the constant taking counts deep. Guys don't swing. Used to be, you get a hittable pitch, you swing. Strikeouts and Walks dominate. The constant stepping in and out of the box or the mound, the game is dying and they just aren't figuring it out. You don't have to make such dramatic changes like baseball is doing with 7 inning games, the runner on 2nd to start the 10th inning, just put timers on pitcher hitters, don't let batter step out of the box, timers on between innings and enforce it. Relief pitchers don't need 8 warmup pitches, they have been warming up in the bullpen. Give them 2 or 3. Eliminate shifts so guys swing more and put more balls in play. I dunno....shouldn't be that hard.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

We have discussed this before. It has been discussed ad nausea, but it is getting worse, not better. A perfect example is yesterday. The Pirates game started 55 minutes before the Penguins game. The Penguins game ended, the Pirates game was still on, just starting 9th inning. Sure, it went an extra inning (helped by the ridiculous runner on 2nd to start the game) but it is not extra innings that is the issue, it is the pace of game. It is just ridiculously slow. Almost all games are 3 1/2 to 4 hours.

This is famous, but Game 7 of the 60 series, the Pirates/Yankees, the walk off HR. The score was 10-9. I think both teams had over a dozen hits. The Pirates used 4 pitchers, the Yanks 5, so there was pitching changes. But the game took 2 hours and 36 minutes! If that would be today, the game no doubt would be over 4 hours. It is more than just shifts, it is the constant taking counts deep. Guys don't swing. Used to be, you get a hittable pitch, you swing. Strikeouts and Walks dominate. The constant stepping in and out of the box or the mound, the game is dying and they just aren't figuring it out. You don't have to make such dramatic changes like baseball is doing with 7 inning games, the runner on 2nd to start the 10th inning, just put timers on pitcher hitters, don't let batter step out of the box, timers on between innings and enforce it. Relief pitchers don't need 8 warmup pitches, they have been warming up in the bullpen. Give them 2 or 3. Eliminate shifts so guys swing more and put more balls in play. I dunno....shouldn't be that hard.

Pitch clock and 60 seconds between innings. Very easy solution.

 

[pittjas]

2 issues IMO:

1.) Too many strikeouts. It has nothing to do with shifts and everything to do with the fact that every reliever comes in throwing 96+ with disgusting stuff. Things like the Texas Baseball Ranch and Driveline have made it possible for so many guys to throw so much harder than ever before. That’s what has resulted in this approach to swing only for doubles and home runs, because it’s just not realistic to play station to station baseball and hope for 4 base hits against today’s pitchers. No real way to fix that besides moving the mound back which they are trying in the Atlantic League.

2.) They don’t market their stars well enough.

 

[pittjas]

Pitch clock and 60 seconds between innings. Very easy solution.

The issue isn’t the length. It’s the fact that the games are boring because there’s too few balls in play.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

The issue isn’t the length. It’s the fact that the games are boring because there’s too few balls in play.

No, length is definitely an issue. Your comment about pitcher quality, with all of these guys just coming in throwing 96 mph filth for an inning, and just lining these guys up inning by inning after the 5th. And batters just try to wait them out.

 

[pittjas]

No, length is definitely an issue. Your comment about pitcher quality, with all of these guys just coming in throwing 96 mph filth for an inning, and just lining these guys up inning by inning after the 5th. And batters just try to wait them out.

Yeah, I worded that wrong. Length is the issue but artificial things like speeding up in between pitches isn’t going to help.

Batters aren’t trying to “wait them out”. It’s just waaaaaay harder to hit today than it was 10-15 years ago.

 

[Pitt79]

We have discussed this before. It has been discussed ad nausea, but it is getting worse, not better. A perfect example is yesterday. The Pirates game started 55 minutes before the Penguins game. The Penguins game ended, the Pirates game was still on, just starting 9th inning. Sure, it went an extra inning (helped by the ridiculous runner on 2nd to start the game) but it is not extra innings that is the issue, it is the pace of game. It is just ridiculously slow. Almost all games are 3 1/2 to 4 hours.

This is famous, but Game 7 of the 60 series, the Pirates/Yankees, the walk off HR. The score was 10-9. I think both teams had over a dozen hits. The Pirates used 4 pitchers, the Yanks 5, so there was pitching changes. But the game took 2 hours and 36 minutes! If that would be today, the game no doubt would be over 4 hours. It is more than just shifts, it is the constant taking counts deep. Guys don't swing. Used to be, you get a hittable pitch, you swing. Strikeouts and Walks dominate. The constant stepping in and out of the box or the mound, the game is dying and they just aren't figuring it out. You don't have to make such dramatic changes like baseball is doing with 7 inning games, the runner on 2nd to start the 10th inning, just put timers on pitcher hitters, don't let batter step out of the box, timers on between innings and enforce it. Relief pitchers don't need 8 warmup pitches, they have been warming up in the bullpen. Give them 2 or 3. Eliminate shifts so guys swing more and put more balls in play. I dunno....shouldn't be that hard.

Stop watching! Other than the Pirates playoff games 2013-2015, I haven't watched a game on TV since 1992. I might go to a game sometimes, to hang out and drink beer, but sit far away because it's hard to pay attention. I'm a Pirates fan, but realized long ago that the sport sucks. It amazes me that people hang on to it, especially since the whole analytics thing has made it all emphasize whatever is safest and most boring strategies. Hey, lets draw a walk

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

You have said this once or twice. And....yeah, I mostly have "stopped watching".

 

[CougarClaws]

We have discussed this before. It has been discussed ad nausea, but it is getting worse, not better. A perfect example is yesterday. The Pirates game started 55 minutes before the Penguins game. The Penguins game ended, the Pirates game was still on, just starting 9th inning. Sure, it went an extra inning (helped by the ridiculous runner on 2nd to start the game) but it is not extra innings that is the issue, it is the pace of game. It is just ridiculously slow. Almost all games are 3 1/2 to 4 hours.

This is famous, but Game 7 of the 60 series, the Pirates/Yankees, the walk off HR. The score was 10-9. I think both teams had over a dozen hits. The Pirates used 4 pitchers, the Yanks 5, so there was pitching changes. But the game took 2 hours and 36 minutes! If that would be today, the game no doubt would be over 4 hours. It is more than just shifts, it is the constant taking counts deep. Guys don't swing. Used to be, you get a hittable pitch, you swing. Strikeouts and Walks dominate. The constant stepping in and out of the box or the mound, the game is dying and they just aren't figuring it out. You don't have to make such dramatic changes like baseball is doing with 7 inning games, the runner on 2nd to start the 10th inning, just put timers on pitcher hitters, don't let batter step out of the box, timers on between innings and enforce it. Relief pitchers don't need 8 warmup pitches, they have been warming up in the bullpen. Give them 2 or 3. Eliminate shifts so guys swing more and put more balls in play. I dunno....shouldn't be that hard.

The Lords of baseball are deaf dumb and mute to the problem. Actually - I think they're just incompetent.

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

The Lords of baseball are deaf dumb and mute to the problem. Actually - I think they're just incompetent.

All of that is true and seems to be symptomatic of the fact that they are very likely stubborn, entitled and arrogant.

 

[Pitt79]

You have said this once or twice. And....yeah, I mostly have "stopped watching".

I'll repeat it again when there's another thread, I'm an anti-baseball advocate.

 

[JD1976]

Growing up baseball was #1 for me. I couldn't get enough of it. Watched every game I could in a 12-channel universe, collected cards, combed through box scores in the newspaper and generally worshipped the game. Now, I avoid baseball games and content at all costs. I would say it's likely that, as a 40-year old, I will go the rest of my life and not watch or attend another MLB game. Everything about the game, its owners and MLB as an organization is such a shell of what it used to be. Meanwhile, I love the NFL, college football and the NHL just as much now (if not more) as I did as a child.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I'll repeat it again when there's another thread, I'm an anti-baseball advocate.

You still add nothing to these conversations by making everything about you.

 

[PharMorNightStocker]

It makes me question how I was able to get anything done when the Pirates were worth watching every night. Going back to sucking has freed up 20 hours per week for me.

 

[Pitt79]

You still add nothing to these conversations by making everything about you.

That's ok with me. That's only your opinion though and you are as big a nobody as I am. Maybe bigger.

 

[Sean Miller Fan]

Growing up baseball was #1 for me. I couldn't get enough of it. Watched every game I could in a 12-channel universe, collected cards, combed through box scores in the newspaper and generally worshipped the game. Now, I avoid baseball games and content at all costs. I would say it's likely that, as a 40-year old, I will go the rest of my life and not watch or attend another MLB game. Everything about the game, its owners and MLB as an organization is such a shell of what it used to be. Meanwhile, I love the NFL, college football and the NHL just as much now (if not more) as I did as a child.

I was a baseball superfan as a kid. Collected cards, got Baseball Weekly, tracked stats, standings, even minor league prospects. However, starting in college and after college when I didn't have as much free time, I started watching less and less and it got to the point that I realized what a boring sport it is. I cant believe I used to watch it as much as I did. Its like watching golf.

 

[Pitt79]

It makes me question how I was able to get anything done when the Pirates were worth watching every night. Going back to sucking has freed up 20 hours per week for me.

Did you really at some point watch the game every night? I never did that, even when they where good and I still watched baseball. I remember my dad did, like when he was in his 70s and 80s and didn't work anymore. Even if it was a good sport, there are too many games, as much as I love the Steelers, if they played 162 games a year, I couldn't do it. I think that's one great feature of football, only one game a week, it's something to look forward to and special.

 

[Pitt79]

I was a baseball superfan as a kid. Collected cards, got Baseball Weekly, tracked stats, standings, even minor league prospects. However, starting in college and after college when I didn't have as much free time, I started watching less and less and it got to the point that I realized what a boring sport it is. I cant believe I used to watch it as much as I did. Its like watching golf.

Me too, Pirates where good back then, and it was pretty much discouraged too even consider watching soccer un American even, even though it's a FAR SUPERIOR sport, in all honesty though, I think baseball isn't as good anymore, with the analytics crap, ball not in play much, Back in the days of Lumber and Lightning, you had more stuff going on, baserunners in motion, etc.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

We have discussed this before. It has been discussed ad nausea, but it is getting worse, not better. A perfect example is yesterday. The Pirates game started 55 minutes before the Penguins game. The Penguins game ended, the Pirates game was still on, just starting 9th inning. Sure, it went an extra inning (helped by the ridiculous runner on 2nd to start the game) but it is not extra innings that is the issue, it is the pace of game. It is just ridiculously slow. Almost all games are 3 1/2 to 4 hours.

This is famous, but Game 7 of the 60 series, the Pirates/Yankees, the walk off HR. The score was 10-9. I think both teams had over a dozen hits. The Pirates used 4 pitchers, the Yanks 5, so there was pitching changes. But the game took 2 hours and 36 minutes! If that would be today, the game no doubt would be over 4 hours. It is more than just shifts, it is the constant taking counts deep. Guys don't swing. Used to be, you get a hittable pitch, you swing. Strikeouts and Walks dominate. The constant stepping in and out of the box or the mound, the game is dying and they just aren't figuring it out. You don't have to make such dramatic changes like baseball is doing with 7 inning games, the runner on 2nd to start the 10th inning, just put timers on pitcher hitters, don't let batter step out of the box, timers on between innings and enforce it. Relief pitchers don't need 8 warmup pitches, they have been warming up in the bullpen. Give them 2 or 3. Eliminate shifts so guys swing more and put more balls in play. I dunno....shouldn't be that hard.

Well
Here’s a suggestion -
Which the tv viewer won’t like

no tv commercial breaks between innings and substitutions
They can keep playing during the breaks -
It’s not like there isn’t enough time to recap of what was missed

people keep painting around the edges but it’s because tv wasn’t dominating pace of play in 1960 unlike the last 20 years

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

Well
Here’s a suggestion -
Which the tv viewer won’t like

no tv commercial breaks between innings and substitutions
They can keep playing during the breaks -
It’s not like there isn’t enough time to recap of what was missed

people keep painting around the edges but it’s because tv wasn’t dominating pace of play in 1960 unlike the last 20 years

60 seconds between half innings though is not much and allows for commercials. The big fact there is no clock and batters make such few contact by either taking pitches and swinging and missing. used to be, 100-120 pitches got you a complete game. Now it gets you to the 6th, maybe 7th inning.

 

[YourPittDanceTeam]

For me, it's quite simple. Make the pitchers throw the ball over the plate. All of these guys step onto the mound thinking that they are going to record big time strikeouts each game. Sadly, MLB doesn't seem to care. Look at the home plate umpire before each pitch. They never stand directly behind the plate, they are either off to the either side of the catchers shoulders. I assume they do this because it gives them a better view of whatever side of the plate they are standing behind. Conversely, they have a poorer view of the other side of the plate and the pitchers and catchers all know that.
If I was pitching and the umpire was behind the catchers left shoulder, I'm trying to throw the ball near the black on the other side of the plate. All the umpire's do this and this is why there is so many MLB pitchers trying to strike everyone out. I mean, why put the ball over the plate, when you are going to get the call from the home plate umpire.
Correcting this would lower the number of pitches needed during each and it would speed up the time of the games.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I was a baseball superfan as a kid. Collected cards, got Baseball Weekly, tracked stats, standings, even minor league prospects. However, starting in college and after college when I didn't have as much free time, I started watching less and less and it got to the point that I realized what a boring sport it is. I cant believe I used to watch it as much as I did. Its like watching golf.

I still love watching great pitching matchups. Not poor hitting, but great pitching. Guys in command, working fast, throwing strikes. Now, you have so much nibbling, and starters go 5, maybe 6 then it is an endless parade of 95+ mph relievers.

But yeah, your points are pretty true for me too. I have a hard time watching any game not involving the Pirates, and I am having a hard time even watching the Pirates. Baseball has become background noise to other activities.

 

[Mikefln]

1) get rid of batting gloves and elbow pads (make exception for Pitchers and injured players like 5 games once they return) or anything other than jersey and helmet. That way there is less for the batter to fidget with between pitches. And don't feed me garbage about it will effect thee batter too much. How many Legends played without that stuff?

2) Unless pitcher is injured, relief pitcher gets no warm up. You know you thinking of bringing him in. There is no reason why he shouldn't be warmed up already.

3) Not sure the exact time but between innings needs a clock also.

4) I will be interested in seeing how moving the mound back does in the minor league.

 

[Panther Holla]

I've attended close to 2000 MLB games since 1970. If you told me the day would come when I would not care if I ever saw the Pirates in person again, I'd have laughed...
... but, I'm on the fence, and not in any hurry to put up with the hoops and obstacles in place just to get a seat to watch four hours of Three True Outcomes.

This has less to do with the Nutting Pirates and more to do with the travesty that the MLB product has become. Too many analytics, too few ballplayers who know how to play the game correctly, too many bandaids or wrong solutions. I fear nothing will change until the TV networks tell MLB hey, this crap you are putting out there is turning off viewers.

The easiest way to shorten games is to trim time between innings. I'd like to cut the time between innings to 90 seconds and allow a sponsor logo on the TV screen for 1-2 minutes of platy thereafter. Otherwise umps should just enforce the effing rules of play regarding pace. Three warmup pitches for relievers. Limit mound visits to 3 per game outside of pitching changes. Max 11 pitchers on rosters. Universal DH. Shifts OK -- learn to hit to the open spot, dammit. Seven inning doubleheaders and the runner on second in Xinnings cheat the fans.

Thank God there is college baseball, which is infinitely more fun to watch these days.

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

I've attended close to 2000 MLB games since 1970. If you told me the day would come when I would not care if I ever saw the Pirates in person again, I'd have laughed...
... but, I'm on the fence, and not in any hurry to put up with the hoops and obstacles in place just to get a seat to watch four hours of Three True Outcomes.

This has less to do with the Nutting Pirates and more to do with the travesty that the MLB product has become. Too many analytics, too few ballplayers who know how to play the game correctly, too many bandaids or wrong solutions. I fear nothing will change until the TV networks tell MLB hey, this crap you are putting out there is turning off viewers.

The easiest way to shorten games is to trim time between innings. I'd like to cut the time between innings to 90 seconds and allow a sponsor logo on the TV screen for 1-2 minutes of platy thereafter. Otherwise umps should just enforce the effing rules of play regarding pace. Three warmup pitches for relievers. Limit mound visits to 3 per game outside of pitching changes. Max 11 pitchers on rosters. Universal DH. Shifts OK -- learn to hit to the open spot, dammit. Seven inning doubleheaders and the runner on second in Xinnings cheat the fans.

Thank God there is college baseball, which is infinitely more fun to watch these days.

I decided, especially now the pandemic's waning, I am vaccinated, but I will go to some Pirates games this summer. Just as something to do. I could care less about the game. That will be secondary. It will be for fun and family, enjoying the weather and views, food, etc... The length of game is immaterial, because when I want to leave, I will leave.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

The easiest way to shorten games is to trim time between innings. I'd like to cut the time between innings to 90 seconds and allow a sponsor logo on the TV screen for 1-2 minutes of platy thereafter.

It's the easiest, but it is most certainly not where the most "bang for the buck" is. Your proposal shortens the length of a nine inning game by approximately nine minutes. If they would just enforce the rules on batters being in the box and pitchers throwing the ball that are already in the book the amount of time saved would dwarf that.

As an example, since Owt mentions yesterday's Pirate game, there were 350 pitches thrown in that game yesterday. So think about that. If you can make the average time per pitch ONE SECOND shorter you save almost SIX MINUTES of game time. If you save just two seconds per pitch you have already saved more time than you shorter inning break would save. Just two seconds.

I think that it would be easy, and I do mean easy, to save an average of four or five seconds per pitch. Sure, there are a few occasions where you really won't be saving any time, but there are other times when you are going to save 10 or 15 seconds on a pitch. Cutting the average time between pitches by four seconds makes would have made the Pirate game yesterday finish 23 minutes earlier.

You could easily cut the time of an average nine inning game to 2:45, maybe even 2:40, by doing nothing more than enforcing the timing rules that are already in the rule book. If an average game was finishing in 2:45 almost all the complaints about game times would go away.

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

We have discussed this before. It has been discussed ad nausea, but it is getting worse, not better. A perfect example is yesterday. The Pirates game started 55 minutes before the Penguins game. The Penguins game ended, the Pirates game was still on, just starting 9th inning. Sure, it went an extra inning (helped by the ridiculous runner on 2nd to start the game) but it is not extra innings that is the issue, it is the pace of game. It is just ridiculously slow. Almost all games are 3 1/2 to 4 hours.

This is famous, but Game 7 of the 60 series, the Pirates/Yankees, the walk off HR. The score was 10-9. I think both teams had over a dozen hits. The Pirates used 4 pitchers, the Yanks 5, so there was pitching changes. But the game took 2 hours and 36 minutes! If that would be today, the game no doubt would be over 4 hours. It is more than just shifts, it is the constant taking counts deep. Guys don't swing. Used to be, you get a hittable pitch, you swing. Strikeouts and Walks dominate. The constant stepping in and out of the box or the mound, the game is dying and they just aren't figuring it out. You don't have to make such dramatic changes like baseball is doing with 7 inning games, the runner on 2nd to start the 10th inning, just put timers on pitcher hitters, don't let batter step out of the box, timers on between innings and enforce it. Relief pitchers don't need 8 warmup pitches, they have been warming up in the bullpen. Give them 2 or 3. Eliminate shifts so guys swing more and put more balls in play. I dunno....shouldn't be that hard.

They put a runner on second to start the 10th?

 

[recruitsreadtheseboards]

They put a runner on second to start the 10th?

Yes. I understood last year with the Covid season, but they are still doing it.

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

Yes. I understood last year with the Covid season, but they are still doing it.

Next thing they’ll do is have 3 on 3 for overtime hockey.

maybe I am too much of a traditionalist. Don’t like such gimmicks

 

[HailToPitt725]

Baseball Reference’s overall yearly stats are interesting to look at when discussing what’s “wrong” with the game.

Since the 1960 World Series is being discussed, we can compare 2019’s numbers (the last full regular season) to 1960. In today’s game, there are slightly more runs per game and .02 less hits per game. 1960 also had slightly more walks per game. Since “old school” baseball had more hits and walks, you would think today’s game would be faster since there’s less action on the bases. Additionally, the big one that stands out to me is that there are, on average, 3+ more strikeouts per game now than there was then. All the stats indicate that games should be much faster today.

That leads me to think that the root problem for the slower games is the “in between” action: time between pitches, batters, new pitchers, innings, etc. That’s why I would prefer reforms such as pitch counts before shift bans or other measures.

Also, another thought: @recruitsreadtheseboards we’ve talked about this before, but playing devil’s advocate to your OP: it seems like you’re asking for two different things. IMO, banning the shift, which would certainly increase the offensive production, would also lead to more men on base, thus longer innings. To me, “more offense” and “shorter games” are mutually exclusive and would net different results.

Just my opinion. Would like to hear what others think about this.

 

[SoufOaklin4Life]

Next thing they’ll do is have 3 on 3 for overtime hockey.

maybe I am too much of a traditionalist. Don’t like such gimmicks

Ties are stupid in hockey
After 5 minutes it goes to shoot out
They should do the same in playoffs

 

[Ski11585]

I’ll be the lone voice to say I’ve watched more MLB and listened to more games on the radio this year than I have since 2015. Gotta make sure my kid is a Sox fan not a Cubs fan.

 

[Gunga_Galunga]

Ever watch old guys golf? They get up and hit the ball. I grew up playing with my buddy and his two grandfathers. I can still hear it.... c'mon Nicklaus hit the damn ball.

Everything has changed.

 

[pittiswhereiamfrom2]

Ties are stupid in hockey
After 5 minutes it goes to shoot out
They should do the same in playoffs

Maybe they should just start off the game with the shootout and make the entire game a shootout

that’s hockey

if the shootout goes too many rounds they can have a race up the ice

 

[Pitt79]

Ties are stupid in hockey
After 5 minutes it goes to shoot out
They should do the same in playoffs

Exactly, do the same in the playoffs, WHO CARES if it's "real hockey" nothing WORSE than Stanley Cup Playoff OT. where you might go go 4-5 OTs until 4 AM, I want to SEE THE END in a reasonable amount of time. NFL should go college OT too, WHO CARES if it's "real football" it's more ENTERTAINING and moves faster.

 

[HailToPitt725]

Exactly, do the same in the playoffs, WHO CARES if it's "real hockey" nothing WORSE than Stanley Cup Playoff OT. where you might go go 4-5 OTs until 4 AM, I want to SEE THE END in a reasonable amount of time. NFL should go college OT too, WHO CARES if it's "real football" it's more ENTERTAINING and moves faster.

Counter-argument: Do the same in the regular season as the playoffs.

 

[Pitt79]

Counter-argument: Do the same in the regular season as the playoffs.

I agree with that totally.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

nothing BETTER than Stanley Cup Playoff OT. where you might go go 4-5 OTs until 4 AM

I fixed your typo for you.

 

[Joe the Panther Fan]

I agree with that totally.

So you want playoff overtimes to end sooner, but on the other hand you want regular season games to be played like the playoffs, where games can go on for hours.

🤪

 

[Pitt79]

I fixed your typo for you.

Hell no, those games are just stupid, I set a limit of watching ONE OT, then going to bed, it's BS watching like 2.5 full hockey games, with all the players exhausted, hate that nonsense, do 5 minutes 3 on 3, then shootout if needed, move on.