Forgot my sarcasm alert.
That's all we heard last year, how bad Walker was.
Today is the official start of Football Season.
More OT Pirates - Liriano to Toronto
- Thread starter King Of All Message Boards
- Start date
That's all we heard last year, how bad Walker was.
Today is the official start of Football Season.
The rotation is Cole, Taillon, Nova, Locke, and Vogelsong. Thanks Neal!
They'll keep Hutchinson down until after August because that will give them another full year if control. Because the only requirement for this organization is years of control, no matter how shitty the player is.
Melancon was a good with a possibilty of a great deal, dumping Niese was great......This Liriano trade was mind boggling.......and I don't disagree with dumping Liriano he is 33 and not getting it back, but to include two minor leaguers......
It is hard to fully blame NH.
He definitely hosed the Walker for Neise deal and has admitted as much.
But the Liriano deal definitely had ownership motivation. As they say, when something doesn't make sense...follow the money. And this was ownership wanting their money.
Edited: For the record, I was for getting rid of Liriano...but against giving up 2 solid prospects in the process and getting essentially an average AAA pitcher in return.
He definitely hosed the Walker for Neise deal and has admitted as much.
But the Liriano deal definitely had ownership motivation. As they say, when something doesn't make sense...follow the money. And this was ownership wanting their money.
Edited: For the record, I was for getting rid of Liriano...but against giving up 2 solid prospects in the process and getting essentially an average AAA pitcher in return.
Harrison is at best, a fill in utility man. He is not a starter. JHAY! JHAY! Weee..look he hustles! YAY FOR JHAY!
And it could be even considered a bigger market, because while Toronto is that big of a metro area, the Jays are also Canada's team. So essentially they got most of the country as a market.
It's not about winning. You give up prospects to obtain pieces to win championships, see penguins this year, you don't give up top prospects to pay off salaries!
NUTTING IS A TOOL BAG, hope we can all agree on that. It is never or has it been about winning, competitive but not winning is best, that's where he makes the most money.
NUTTING IS A TOOL BAG, hope we can all agree on that. It is never or has it been about winning, competitive but not winning is best, that's where he makes the most money.
Everyone knows the Slope Intercept Formula right? y=mx+b if my memory is correct.
Well Nuttings have perfected this. The combination of payroll + attendance revenue to equal maximization of profits (hence y). That is what drives this franchise over WAR, WHiP, OBPS, etc....
Losing kills attendance, winning gets payroll to high, but just winning enough achieves the goal, butts in seats without high salaries.
I give the guy credit , genius, he knows how to make money without delivering, and has many willing to line his pockets without expectations of winning
I give the guy credit , genius, he knows how to make money without delivering, and has many willing to line his pockets without expectations of winning
Bob Nutting is the greatest stripteaser since Gypsy Rose Lee. Who was around about the time the Bucs last won a World Series.
You're completely delusional. To see what the market was bearing for others, and only get a RP and a potential RP if he ever makes it, for Melancon is awful.
Dumping Niese to get a RP who they have to pay next year is pointless. If you don't think Tony Watson is going to be dumped this offseason as a result of Rivero + Bastardo, then you haven't been paying attention to the Pirates at all.
You way, way overvalue Melancon from an impact and talent perspective and you unbelievably undervalue control time.
I think what they got back for Melancon is what the market beared.......they got a shut down releiver and a young starting pitcher propect.......You can keep saying that Melancon should have returned a Chapeman or Miller type haul but it doesn't make it true......Watson isn't going anywhere, don't be stupid
Geez, I dont see the hatred pointing at Harrison. The guy is a good baseball player, in all aspects and someone that should be on this team playing a part. Unfortunately, he was GREAT at RF, LF, 3B and a good fill in at 2B and SS... he is now a 2B replacing Walker who was a solid, run producing presence. I mean, we have Marte as our clean up hitter this here, and he is a great hitter! but the guy is a #2 hitter, not a #4. Kang fell apart after the rape accusation, he is probably our only legit 4 hitter now, maybe Joyce could fill in there.
The Pirates are not good now
The Pirates are not good now
105 mph or not, Melancon has been at the very least as good as Chapman since start of 2013. I could see not getting exact same value as NY received, but should've gotten something close to it. Neal insisted on getting the most fungible of positions in return, a relief pitcher. I couldn't care less about years of control for RP, you can find those guys anywhere - Hanrahan acquired for Nyjer Morgan; Grilli claimed off waivers; Watson converted SP. Teams everywhere were overspending for players, yet NH insisted on trading for a RP instead of highly rated SP or everyday player.
Since start of 2013 -
Pitcher A - 261.1 ip, 1.79 era, 0.92 whip, 2.26 fip, 211 era+, 5.79 K:BB
Pitcher B - 219 ip, 2.05 era, 0.99 whip, 1.80 fip, 190 era+, 4.09 K:BB
Pitcher A is Melancon, B is Chapman. If you don't think Melancon should've gotten close to the return of Chapman, you have no idea what you're talking about. Neal insisted on a RP, and that killed the overall value he should have received.
I guess here is where you say you'd rather have a RP than top 20 prospect Gleyber Torres, borderline top 100 prospect Billy McKinney, plus two others.
No, but also, no one agrees with you on Melancon and 2013 doesn't matter. What he is right now matters.
The market was top prospects in trade returns all over the place, but Neal wanted a reliever. To call Rivero a shutdown reliever is so factually inaccurate not even going to go into it.
Somehow Neal Huntington traded away one of the top RP in baseball when top relievers were returning huge hauls, yet still managed to trade away the best prospects involved in Pirates trades this week. And in return he has Felipe Rivero and Drew Hutchinson to show for it. That is complete failure.
You do realize his numbers this year are in-line or better than those numbers from 2013-2016 combined, right?
1.48 era, 0.93 whip, 283 era+, 4.44 K:bb
2.01 era, 0.89 whip, 213 era+, 5.50 K:bb for Chapman in NY.
No defending this trade. Simply ridiculous. Even though he's struggled this year for the most part, trading a guy who was your opening day starter the past 3 years for a AAA prospect with nominal upside is obviously a salary dump.
This move does indeed say the front office has given up on this season IMO.
This move does indeed say the front office has given up on this season IMO.
GIVING AWAY 2 TOP PROSPECTS made it atrocious! He wouldn't give these guys away for Archer or someone that could have helped this year. He gave them away for cash, to line his pockets, nothing more
Last edited:
The Liriano trade? I posted that it made absolutely no sense. I don't have a boner for the Pirates or Nutting or Huntington, so I am in no way defending or targeting any of them.
Think bobblehead and it will all come together for you....
Just goes to show that you could make up any moronic thing against Nutting and some people would lap it up.
I didn't lap it up, I researched and saw , he tweeted his outrage and wasn't suspended. If you want to talk about lapping things up, it's the Nutting apologist, and it's not even close
