More OT Pirates - Liriano to Toronto
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You're right, teams should never give contracts of any kind to second level players like that. It should all be superstars making 20 million a year, or league minimum guys.
The Pirates have a roster full of second line players-that's why they stink!
What difference does it make now.
They turned a 98 win team into What they are seeing now. .... so they could hit the Cash Flow Number.
Which is their only Magic Number.
They won't move off that number...ever
This off season plus the Liriano hot mess should even wake up the Nutting sock puppets.
When he has his sheep tell me, we can't trade these prospects for help to win now, but we can trade them to fill his pockets , that ends the argument forever.
NH just last week publicly made a big deal out of why they don't trade top prospects. ....but then apparently shortly after that got a call from his boss
Get rid of L's 15 very large we owe him right now ; no matter what you have to give up from down below. Then make up some vague sh!t in Saber-speak to cover it up fan-wise.
They shouldn't be giving second level contracts to bad players, which is what they've consistently done. Give real money to real players, fill in with guys who don't have a long history of sucking (like Joyce and Freese), then use your minor league system. Guys like Kuhl, Brault, Frazier, Bell, Moroff, Hanson, Diaz... Those guys are at the very least bench players and RP. Though Kuhl looks like a legitimate back end SP, unlike Locke, Nicasio, Niese, etc. Frazier is going to make that Harrison contract look even worse than it was the instant it was signed, as bad as it was then. Bell should've been in for Jaso over a month ago.
I find it highly amusing that anyone can sit here and defend this front office when the rotation at the beginning of the season included Locke, Niese, and Nicasio, and here we are in August, and it includes Locke, Nova, and Vogelsong.
The 'bridge' year was a self fulfilling prophecy when you don't make an effort to win with a MLB quality Starting Rotation. I'm sure soon enough we'll hear about how 2017 is going to be a bridge year too, because of the youth of Taillon, Glasgow, and Bell. Then, Cutch will be gone, Cole will be nearing the end of his time here, and who knows what will happen then. That is why you never punt on a season when you have a legitimate chance, and why you go "all in" when you have a team that can legitimately win with another top end piece or two.
Hey, at least they have Felipe Rivero and Drew Hutchinson though, lol.
He and his boss are frauds. They y won't trade prospects to obtain an expensive proven player but will to unload salary. The height of hypocrisy. They have no credibility.
You want to lay blame on why this club is a mess and continues to pull crap like this, go look in the mirror. Pirate fans seem to blindly support whatever the gets thrown out there and dismiss failure because "small market" has been drilled into your heads for so long, you're convinced it's true. Yeah, the base gets crabby for a while after things like this but the Steelers hit camp and all is forgotten until you wake up in April and realize the team hasn't improved itself over the winter, again.
Your 'bridge' year paragraph was spot on.
Remember we didn't sign real pitchers because we didn't want to block the blossoming stars....
Where are they?
So we will have to hope they come through next year....
Hope.
the front office wished in one hand and....as their strategy going into this season.
NH used the term financial flexibility at least 10 times when summarizing the deadline trades..
And also threw out the gem of "reallocation"
But the only reallocation which will take place is turning the fans money into Nutting's money.
Nobody wants the Dodgers / RedSox et al payroll ..nobody wants a 200m contract... and really getting sick of hearing that come up. But a couple smart moves for players at market value might make a difference coming off 98 wins ....
You're right totally that punting and hoping didn't work.
I really believed in what Neil was doing pre-trade-deadline. You can call me a sheep or whatever the hell you want. Up until that It looked like he had a plan to follow. Couple the disastrous trade deadline, with the inability to call up the young guys (Bell Brault Kuhl ect) to plug the holes, it's maddening. The thing that scares me the most is this quote that said along the lines of not wanting to throw the prospects into the fire during a Pennaet Race.
Dude there isn't going to be what he calls a Pennant Race if they continue to pitch Jeff Locke, continue to play Jaso, and continue to bat Harrison against righties when Fraizer is killing it. It makes no sense at all, it's easy to see why the team has gone into the tank when the so-called reinforcements are wasting their time in AAA.
The crap that he spewed over we made the Liriano trade to acquire Hutch was just him lying through his teeth. If they wanted Hutch so bad it wouldn't have cost two top 10 prospects that's for damn sure. He could have been had for a bag of balls and a semi used fungo.
Look at the free agent starters next season, that 17 million that they saved isn't going anywhere, the cream of the crop is Rich Hill and he's 37 and last year at this time was playing in a semi-pro league.
Will the Pirates right the ship after a 1-5 stretch against the Brewers and Braves? Probably not, the best players right now are Freese and Joyce and that's because they are playing for contracts.
Dude there isn't going to be what he calls a Pennant Race if they continue to pitch Jeff Locke, continue to play Jaso, and continue to bat Harrison against righties when Fraizer is killing it. It makes no sense at all, it's easy to see why the team has gone into the tank when the so-called reinforcements are wasting their time in AAA.
The crap that he spewed over we made the Liriano trade to acquire Hutch was just him lying through his teeth. If they wanted Hutch so bad it wouldn't have cost two top 10 prospects that's for damn sure. He could have been had for a bag of balls and a semi used fungo.
Look at the free agent starters next season, that 17 million that they saved isn't going anywhere, the cream of the crop is Rich Hill and he's 37 and last year at this time was playing in a semi-pro league.
Will the Pirates right the ship after a 1-5 stretch against the Brewers and Braves? Probably not, the best players right now are Freese and Joyce and that's because they are playing for contracts.
Holy cow. I mean, my god, the level of ignorance. First off, the reason this team is not doing well has everything to do with cutch and liriano stinking, and Cole getting hurt. As far least 6 wins if that doesn't happen.
Two, MVk, you are so far off base. You complain about signing garbage players, then use freese and Joyce as examples of good players to sign. Do you not realize how asinine that is?
Jaso has been a good hitter through his career. In limited time last year he had a 134 OPS+ and over his career it is 112. It was a good signing, and he has not played up to his career norms.
Then you use Joyce as an example who had a 59 OPS+ last year. I remember people like you calling him Corey hart part 2. Talk about playing the results. I also remember people losing it when freese was signed, especially all your CIA friends that he was garbage.
What about "garbage" like Burnett, liriano in the first place, volquez, Russell Martin, etc.
You are simply picking and choosing after the fact to fit your agenda.
Two, MVk, you are so far off base. You complain about signing garbage players, then use freese and Joyce as examples of good players to sign. Do you not realize how asinine that is?
Jaso has been a good hitter through his career. In limited time last year he had a 134 OPS+ and over his career it is 112. It was a good signing, and he has not played up to his career norms.
Then you use Joyce as an example who had a 59 OPS+ last year. I remember people like you calling him Corey hart part 2. Talk about playing the results. I also remember people losing it when freese was signed, especially all your CIA friends that he was garbage.
What about "garbage" like Burnett, liriano in the first place, volquez, Russell Martin, etc.
You are simply picking and choosing after the fact to fit your agenda.
There is no more defending Nutting and his management team. What most of us knew, the rest of you should have seen it very clear now. NEVER EVER EVER do I want to hear, we can't have Archer etc for high draft picks , cause we need them in the future, future pawns for cash for the Nutting family , LMAO
HAPP would look real good here right now, instead of the 3 clowns , and counting, we are using each night. GO NUTTINGS WALLET
HAPP would look real good here right now, instead of the 3 clowns , and counting, we are using each night. GO NUTTINGS WALLET
Joyce and Freese have a long history of being productive. Buying low after a down year is smart. That is what they did with Liriano and Burnett and Martin too. Locke and Nicasio have never been good.
Are you seriously blaming the entire season on Cutch and Cole? This is peak Front Office Fan right there... Blame the stars and not the garbage at the 3/4/5 spots in rotation, or the abortion that is at 2B after Walker had to be dealt (for whatever assinine reason). Or a downgrade at 1B and STILL not calling up Josh Bell.
Cutch has been down this year, yes, but there are far greater problems with this team than Cutch having a down year. And those problems start with the rotation that was punted on this offseason, and continues to be punted on to this day.
As for Cole, pitchers miss time. Cole did last year, Burnett did last year, Liriano and Burnett have missed time in the past. That is why you bring in another legitimate starter. You're not going to block tip prospects, because inevitably a SP will get hurt or, when you have 3/5 of the rotation being absolute garbage, someone (or two or three) will suck. Another legitimate SP (Cueto/Happ/Maeda/whoever) would've reduced the garbage factor to only 2/5 that could be easily replaced because they suck.
I can't take anyone seriously that lays blame on Cutch and Cole instead of a front office that has been horrid for the past 10 months.
Not that I agree with the sentiment being expressed, but . . . isn't this just as small a market for hockey and football?
Look at the net worth of that jagoff Nutting, and since he owned the pirates the value has increased 500%, he is a bum and feeds his lies to those that want to believe
Yup. Even though those sports are capped, the Steelers are 9th in salary heading into 2016 and the Pens are 2nd heading into the coming season.
Pirates were 25th heading into the season.
Only a total dumba$$ thinks that comparing where the penguins are in payroll, the steelers are I payroll, and the Pirates are makes any sense.
Go look at the Penguins before the new CBA. They operated just like the Pirates.
In fairness, the fans don't have a chance. If they boycott the team, it gives the owner even greater rationalization why he won't spend money, citing poor attendance and less money coming in.
The die was cast when Pirate ownership voted against the salary cap. That sent the message: "We'll take the money from the Luxury Tax and pocket it."
Except.... the Penguins are very willing to trade a top prospect, as they did this year, to get a good player to win now, and the pirates trade theirs for CASH ONLY! Penguins try to win, the pirates try to only make money, first srcond, third and forth in that order.
You mean like in the 90's when they won two cups with a gigantic payroll that pretty much bankrupted the team? I don't understand your question.
Is the oft-told story that the owner of the Boston Red Sox way back a century or so ago sold the young Babe Ruth (at that point not merely a prospect but actually a proven player) to the Yankees in order to finance a Broadway show he was producing true? We may end up with the curse of the new Bambino.
Yeah, that would be like the pens trading Malkin if he slumps nxt year then throw in our 2 top prospects in return for like a 3rd line defenseman
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