ADVERTISEMENT

NC St

persp

persp

Senior
Dec 3, 2001
4,896
6,296
113
Something Ive been pondering:

Does NC St have a wrestler development problem?

They always recruit well and have strong lineups, but do their guys ever really step up and reach higher levels?

Im not so sure.

Who was their last national champ?

Hidlays didnt do it
Neither for the Jacks
Jacob Camacho regressed
Kai Orine and Ed Scott seem to be regressing
Their mid-upper weights are just solid, despite being high level recruits.

Will Robinson be the guy or we he stay a top 5 guy that never wins a title as well?

I can't remember an NC St wrestler that went wire to wire for a natty like even Nino did.


Was looking at the Okie St/NC St box score and it got me thinking
 
  • Like
Reactions: TJ-Pinzburgh
What an absolutely ridiculous take. Nc state is one of the nations best at developing talent. Gwiz, Machiavello, Trumble, Wilson just to name a few non “blue chip” guys out of high school. That program was in shambles 15 years ago
 
  • Like
Reactions: jctrack
Trumble is a poor example as he's never done anything much at NCAAs. I don't think it's ridiculous to point out that NC State hasn't had a champ since 2018--a long time for a top program like they've become. They also have several contenders for the "best wrestler to not win a natty" in that timeframe (Hidlay, Hidlay, Tariq ooth).

It's important to remember when looking at their results this year that they are redshirting two of their best. Ryan Jack was an AA last year and Arrington beat national champ Caleb Henson. Not really sure what they are going for with these redshirts. Arrington moving up, never struck me as big for 149.

Ed Scott has had a lot of frustrating results. So many Ls in matches where he had the lead. Camacho peaked very early and is now in his seventh season. Orine has been really solid, blood round as a freshman then AA last two years. He tried to move up to 141 this year and it didn't go very well. But the 133 field is weaker now and if he finds his form by March he could actually be a title contender.
 
  • Like
Reactions: persp
_DBHoops said:
Trumble is a poor example as he's never done anything much at NCAAs. I don't think it's ridiculous to point out that NC State hasn't had a champ since 2018--a long time for a top program like they've become. They also have several contenders for the "best wrestler to not win a natty" in that timeframe (Hidlay, Hidlay, Tariq ooth).

It's important to remember when looking at their results this year that they are redshirting two of their best. Ryan Jack was an AA last year and Arrington beat national champ Caleb Henson. Not really sure what they are going for with these redshirts. Arrington moving up, never struck me as big for 149.

Ed Scott has had a lot of frustrating results. So many Ls in matches where he had the lead. Camacho peaked very early and is now in his seventh season. Orine has been really solid, blood round as a freshman then AA last two years. He tried to move up to 141 this year and it didn't go very well. But the 133 field is weaker now and if he finds his form by March he could actually be a title contender.
Click to expand...
Thats kind of my point. Orine and Scott have pretty much been the same level wrestler since they arrived.

They are undoubtedly an elite program, but they arent turning their elite recruits into champs like PSU, Iowa, Iowa St tend to.
 
  • Like
Reactions: dougpaper and _DBHoops
persp said:
Thats kind of my point. Orine and Scott have pretty much been the same level wrestler since they arrived.

They are undoubtedly an elite program, but they arent turning their elite recruits into champs like PSU, Iowa, Iowa St tend to.
Click to expand...
I am not sure I would call NC State an elite program, they are very good but not quite elite for me.

The Hidlay's just ran into some all-time greats, Trent lost to Brooks 4 times and Hayden lost to Nolf x2, Carr, Starocci.
 
pafootballguy said:
I am not sure I would call NC State an elite program, they are very good but not quite elite for me.

The Hidlay's just ran into some all-time greats, Trent lost to Brooks 4 times and Hayden lost to Nolf x2, Carr, Starocci.
Click to expand...
Im more placating the exciteable member of this group with that statement.

The Hidlays did run into all timers, but Id counter with that they have every chance to be all timers too, but never got over that hump. Brooks, Nolf, Carr, and Starocci all kept getting better. Id say Trent progressed a fair bit over his career, but Hayden was kind of the same guy his whole career
 
So just because the Hidlays couldn’t beat nolf and brooks you think they didn’t get better at nc state? Considering Pitt hasn’t been within 25 points of nc state in years I’d say they’re pretty elite. Having multiple AA’s and finalists every year sounds pretty elite to me.
 
Realbrosgbg111 said:
So just because the Hidlays couldn’t beat nolf and brooks you think they didn’t get better at nc state? Considering Pitt hasn’t been within 25 points of nc state in years I’d say they’re pretty elite. Having multiple AA’s and finalists every year sounds pretty elite to me.
Click to expand...
This aint about Pitt. Pointless to strawman this discussion.

And no, having multiple AA's most years isnt elite. It is damn good, but not elite. Elite teams have a champ every other year or so. They dont go 6+ years without one.
 
2 days out from this big dual, they are in a bit of a down year with the RS and no Hidlays left.
Preview:
125: Babin vs Robinson
Robinson may be the best 125 in the country this year. His only loss is by MFF and he has a 69% bonus rate this year. He has scored under 10 points only three times this entire season. Babin will need to slow him down as much in possible in neutral and has to get on top to have a chance in this one. NCST FAVORED
133: Chappell? vs Orine
Assuming Vinnie is still out, we likely have a 125 bumping up to 133 in this one, to take on a returning AA who spent half the season at 141 this year. This is a match where I would consider it a victory if Vinnie held it to a decision, with a backup going I hope we just can hold it to 4 or 5 and not 6. NCST FAVORED
141: Ant vs. Tracy
Tracy spent most of the season up at 149 and is 1-3 since coming down to 141. He has faced good competition and I would not be surprised if he kept it close but this is really a match Santaniello needs to win if he has any goals of qualifying for NCAAs. I think he is also the better wrestler and should get this one done. PITT FAVORED
149: Solomon vs Buesgens
Buesgens is an good wrestler who had a really nice HS career. He is 14-7 on the season so he has done pretty well in his first season as a starter. Him and Finn have a very similar level in terms of who they have lost to. However I would say Finn has a few less questionable losses and some more emphatic wins. I think Finn should look to come out and get a nice win against his former team and keep establishing himself as a surefire NCAA qualifier. PITT FAVORED
157: Evans vs Scott
Scott is a former AA who is incredibly up and down. He likes big moves and to get into big exchanges. Evans is an interesting matchup for him as his fundamental style contrasts. Scott is the more proven of the two and I will favor him, but I do think Evans has a real path to victory if he weathers the storm, pushes the pace, and stays out of crazy spots. NCST FAVORED
First Half: 2 Pitt Favored, 0 Toss Up, 3 NCST Favored
165: Keslar vs Fields
Fields had a very good season last year but has seemingly taken a step back in this one. Fields is 10-8 on the season, but started the season 7-0. Meaning he is on a 3 and 8 stretch currently. All of the losses have been to legit NCAA qualifier types, but this downward trend for a wrestler is never a good thing. Keslar is coming off his best performance of the season and could potentially snowball that momentum. Fields beat Holden twice last season but I do not think that he is at the same level this year and Keslar could take this one from him. TOSS UP
174: Augustine vs Singleton
Singleton had a rougher start to the year but has really picked up steam as the year has gone on. These two have very close mutual results this season and like most Luca matches I feel the only option is to call it 50/50. TOSS UP
184: Heller vs Fishback
These two split last year and Heller won the first round this season. Heller is 14-0 outside of his one day at Rider where he went 0-3. Fishback is 8-4 with 2 losses at Journeyman and 2 in duals. He has lost to all legit AA contenders but he has also not beaten any real established nationally ranked starters this year. Based on how the year has gone and their history I think this comes down to 1 or 2 exchanges. TOSS UP
197: Stout vs Knop
Knop is pretty solid at 8-4 on the year, but Stout has not lost since November and has looked rather dominant in that time frame. I would expect Stout to win this one and potentially catch up some bonus. PITT FAVORED
285: Trumble is 15-3 on the year. With 1 loss coming to Schultz which he avenged and the other two coming to Hendrickson. Pitzer could beat Trumble, but based on the results so far this season Trumble has been far more impressive and I expect his impressive run can continue in this one. NCST FAVORED
2nd half: 1 Pitt Favored, 3 Toss Up, 1 NCST Favored

Overall: 3 Pitt Favored, 3 Toss Up, 4 NCST Favored
This is a dual where 165-184 and the bonus potential will be everything. NCST has the chance to blow Pitt out if the plausible upsets at 141 and 149 happen. If Pitt wins the three matches it should and 3 others through toss-ups or upset there is a real shot that we take this dual and put ourselves in contention for the ACC dual meet crown this year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Pitt87, brunopittfan, TJ-Pinzburgh and 2 others
I see this very similar. We need wins at 141, 149 and 197. We get bonus points out of these matches. Then we could pull out close win with only 2 of 5 wins…157, 165, 174, 184 and 285. No bonus in 141, 149 and 197. Then we need 3 out of the 5 matches noted.

Big Friday night dual!
 
We are definitely down a bit this year. Arrington and Jack would likely be ranked top 5 nationally if they weren’t redshirting. We have a serious hole at 141. Tracy competes very hard but has no business starting in the ACC. Fields is a tough watch at 165. Takes zero shots. Knop (197) gives it all he’s got but is limited.
Buesgens is young but tough as nails, I’d be surprised but not shocked if he beat Finn. If any of these guys win, I’d say State takes it. Gonna be tight nonetheless.
 
  • Like
Reactions: wrestlingfan22
persp said:
Im more placating the exciteable member of this group with that statement.

The Hidlays did run into all timers, but Id counter with that they have every chance to be all timers too, but never got over that hump. Brooks, Nolf, Carr, and Starocci all kept getting better. Id say Trent progressed a fair bit over his career, but Hayden was kind of the same guy his whole career
Click to expand...
If you remember, Hayden got screwed on a TD against Nolf . After the match Nolf admitted he thought it was TD
 
  • Like
Reactions: bwh05
GNTRUITT said:
If you remember, Hayden got screwed on a TD against Nolf . After the match Nolf admitted he thought it was TD
Click to expand...
Hidlay definitely beat Nolf.

I think it'll be close. We really need to catch and pin someone to pull off the upset.
 
sam said:
We are definitely down a bit this year. Arrington and Jack would likely be ranked top 5 nationally if they weren’t redshirting. We have a serious hole at 141. Tracy competes very hard but has no business starting in the ACC. Fields is a tough watch at 165. Takes zero shots. Knop (197) gives it all he’s got but is limited.
Buesgens is young but tough as nails, I’d be surprised but not shocked if he beat Finn. If any of these guys win, I’d say State takes it. Gonna be tight nonetheless.
Click to expand...
Why are they redshirting? Thanks.
 
Rough one there. We are going to have to make up some ground now. Down 8 with 6 matches to go, need to win minimum 4/6 (with bonus) to have a chance
 
I thought he got two swipes with the cradle.

I hold my breathe every time he’s extended and trying to hold onto a leg
 
Chaos said:
Why are they redshirting? Thanks.
Click to expand...
I think it was a roster balance situation for next year. Some of the roster plans for this year haven’t really worked out( guys trying to wrestle up a weight) . In hindsight I bet they’d not RS.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Chaos
I think sometimes it’s a situation to where they redshirt certain guys that are planning on going up a weight for the following year for possibly a better lineup and give them a year of wrestling open and bulking up
 
  • Like
Reactions: jctrack
A lot of talk on here about how nc state can’t develop talent. How about last night? Heavy weight was a pretty good example of one side of the coin developing and the flip side regressing
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

W

PITT VS NC STATE FRIDAY NIGHT @FITZ

Replies
53
Views
5K
The Field House
pafootballguy
P
W

Pitt vs UNC on Friday

Replies
80
Views
6K
The Field House
Cranberry Pantherfan
Cranberry Pantherfan
W

Pitt vs Virginia Tech Friday @ 7 @The Fitz

Replies
13
Views
3K
The Field House
wrestlingfan22
W
W

NCAA QUALIFICATION

Replies
1
Views
842
The Field House
docpanther26
docpanther26
W

Lehigh/Maryland Dual Meets

Replies
65
Views
4K
The Field House
Ryno53
R
ADVERTISEMENT

Latest posts

ADVERTISEMENT
Top Bottom
Back